prop_physics impact on fps

I am about 70% finished with the brush portion of my map, and I'm getting concerned about FPS with my map once I put in all the throwable crap. I'm shooting for a minimum of 60 fps throughout my map (which both lockdown and overwatch fail to achieve) and I have about an 80 fps minimum right now. However, I have a big open area and have yet to place any prop_physics. I know they affect fps in a significant way, so I'm worried that my map will suffer from poor fps once it's finished (or at least drop down below my 60 fps target). I'm wondering whether or not drops to 50 fps or so is acceptable for certain situations due to the number of props thrown into an area over the course of a match. Should I try to restrict the number of prop_physics, start reducing the number of brushes in the open area, redesign it, or just not bother? Has anyone else encountered this design dilemma? (I'm going to guess that few have even bothered to think about it :rolleyes: )

I have had the same concerns about my maps, and I have found that it all depends on where your priorities lie. If you want to have lots of prop_physics, you'll need to sacrifice fps for it in open areas. There are some things you can do to optimize the portions that are already there...like using func_detail on your brushes, lod's, etc etc, but it all comes down to what the point of your map is. If you want it to be a smooth runner, you might need to slim the map down a bit to accomodate. Otherwise, make the whole thing out of glass and let people howl about only getting 1 fps, lol.

Well, would you worry about unavoidable but slight fps drops depending on where the props get thrown to or would you make sure to design properly so that no matter how many props get placed in an area you'd never experience significant slowdown while sacrificing other important map details? I guess it would depend upon personal preference, but I'm curious about what the majority of mappers would decide to do.

Honestly, I would make the map as best I could and include everything that I wanted, then test to see its performance. If it's below the threshold that is acceptable, start making sacrifices on the props.

It all comes down to first making maps fun. If everyone was worried about getting extreme performance out of each map, then there would be hundreds of maps with a floor, 1 light, and a physics barrel in the middle. By adding more physics and detail, you increase the fun factor (IMO). It's kinda sad, but you always have to keep in mind the possibility that some dufus will go into your level and stack every physics prop in the same area, then complain about lag. I guess you can always set a timer on every prop to explode after it has been awake for more than 10 seconds...that'd stop any tom-foolery

I personally wouldn't mind some fps drop to have lots of stuff to throw around :smile:

Things will get thrown around alot, but I'll bet that generally it will
even out on where they get thrown to. You won't end up with all
the props getting thrown into one area unless that is the only guy in
the map. Items will tend to stay around where they start,
especially if they start near spawns. If an item starts near a
spawn it will get thrown around alot by people fighting there but its
unlikely to leave the vacinity much. Even if it does its just one
prop right?

Are you referring to prop_physics in the sense that you're worried about all the objects that will be thrown around, or that there will be a lot of models populating your map in general? If it's the former, personally I'd just cut down on the prop_physics- they're fun but too many can get irritating. The latter is trickier as it's harder to judge performance now (I guess you're okay, but what about those of us with very fast PCs, how are our maps going to perform on slower machines?!). I personally just use showtexturebudget or whatever the console command is, along with mat_wireframe, and try to keep model memory usage as low as possible :/

I'm nearing the 85% mark for my map and am finding the fps are dropping
down to the 30's and 40's, no lower, when I've added the props and
stuff. Part of the problem is that I'm running the graphic settings
maxed out on a P4 Ti 4200, so I'm getting into the red on the official
single and DM maps. When I drop the settings down it seems to run much
better though, sticking to the 50's and above, with occaisional drops
to the 40's.

I figure that since Valve are going to be running top of the line PC's,
and the fact that their own maps are getting bad FPS, it shouldn't
matter too much, unless of course your hitting red all the time.

I'm also having this problem with prop_details. They never work, always
coming up with an error icon and something about being vertex lit, when
props should be point lit. The detail I've added with prop_statics
instead of prop_details are sucking some frames I'd like to save.
Anyone have a clue what the problem is?

Make sure you're using prop_physics_multiplayer, and if your map is
big, set them to fade out maybe 1024 units away from the player or
something. My own HL2DM map is getting the same framerate problems,
mostly because of the water reflecting/refracting everything.

mat_wireframe really helps too. VIS in HL2 is pretty inaccurate since
not every poly is important. It will overdraw a lot of stuff, so you'll
have to define some fade-out/fade-in with static props. Like for
example, I have a shed with a generator in it; I've set a radius so it
only renders when the player is roughly near the shed or inside, otherwise it would always be rendered no matter what.

Overall though, I wouldn't worry about it. If even the "official" maps
have FPS drops, I'm sure it's okay and an unfortunately unavoidable
part of HL2DM mapping. :smile:

The official maps don't use prop_physics_multiplayer I don't think, are
you sure they work okay in HL2DM? I know their use is encouraged in
CS:S but since dm_lockdown uses prop_physics I figured that was what
you were meant to use. Do the multiplayer ones work as expected, or are
they problematic like the CS:S ones?

I've heard people experiencing problem with prop_physics_multiplayer when it's used in a map (for example, not being able to pick up the models with the gravity gun).

What about using occluders? I am having some high budget problem with my map too, with frame rates hitting around 40's in some spots. But I am hoping that a few occluders in strategic spots will solve some of the issues. (Of course, this wouldn't work in large open areas when the prop_physics models are thrown around).

Your right Reno, the official maps use prop_physics instead of prop_physics_multiplayer.

The prop_physics_multiplayer is buggered something severe. What it
essentially does is make the collision zone around the object
incredibly simple. I've found that with boxes and things it makes the
collision zone a cube of about 16x16 in the centre of the prop, so it
ends up halfway through the ground. As Satchmo alse mentioned, the
object tend to become stuck in brushes when damaged and can no longer
be picked up.

Car's seem to work fine but for most of the objects in my map I've been forced to use prop_physics.