Skybox revealing level

While mapping I ran into a weird problem. In one of the areas, I decided to put a window. After putting it, I realized that I could see another part of the level through the skybox. When there's no window, I dont see it. A bit hard to explain, here's the pics.

No window, no problem.

With window, part of the level shows.

I have a question did u use the carve tool or did u use the clip tool on that window?

you need to work placeing hint's in your map. Check you mat_wireframe 1.

I used the carve tool to do it. Trying to read some tutorials about hint brushes but where would I apply them here?

WILDMAN I am sorry to say but it was because of that carve u made. Use
the clip to to make holes like that when I first started mapping I also
used the carve tool ALOT it cause many errors in my maps and even one
carve caused errors in my maps so I was forced to quit using the CARVE
tool. Ask any snarkpitter here that the CARVE tool can cause many
problems.

yeppers.. never carve.. otho its ultra easy.. it saves time the long way around.

also hint brushes.. mosly afaik put them around 90 degree coners.. or
in door ways.. windows.. that kinda stuff.. i
think.. i never used em yet on my map..since i am trying to find
the 1 bursh that is giving me a error... but thats another
probem and not this

the carve tool is bad, but it doesn't cause see through sky's in my experience.

this often occurs or did occur in HL1 because of some cumulative issues elsewhere in the map. people only notice it after a certain even and think it must be caused by this event.

anyways, most times a full vis compile will remove the issue. try doing a full compile.

I tried using the clip tool, same result :sad: , even with full compile as well, but i have other places that are carved in my map so it might be related to that?

You can try using func_occluders. look in the sample SDKs to find out
what they are, but in short they will block any models over on the
other side of them.

Func_occluders dont block brushes so it doesnt work either :sad:

If u werent far into ur map I dont wanna say this I have had this
happen to me twice now but u may need to restart the map but it wont
take u long to get where u are right now.

This problem is cuased when a far away part of the map is rendered even
tho the player isn't in that area. The sky is behind the world so
if part of the world gets renderd it will pop infront of the sky.
Becuase this part of his map is brush based the occualr will not work.

You have to use hint brushes to fix this. make a hint brush inside the window area. Also try to add one above the path.

The other question is, why not remove the skybox from there and let the player see that part of the level?

You can also just move the skybox futher away, outside the vision range.

If you look at the valve maps, the skybox is far away and a little below the main map, or map geometry completely occludes the skybox.

I assume that the reason the window affected the visibiity, was that the window exposes the skybox_projector, and prior to the window, the view was being clipped. Love to know more if you figure it out.

The other question is, why not remove the skybox from there and let the player see that part of the level?

It would seem logical , but everybody is so hyped about fixing the problem that they've forgotten about eliminating it :razz: .

WILDMAN I am sorry to say but it was because of that carve u made. Use
the clip to to make holes like that when I first started mapping I also
used the carve tool ALOT it cause many errors in my maps and even one
carve caused errors in my maps so I was forced to quit using the CARVE
tool. Ask any snarkpitter here that the CARVE tool can cause many
problems.

I had to read that about five times to figure out what the hell you were saying. How hard is it to put in maybe 10 seconds and make your writing readable. Come on, think of the children.

Well I redesigned parts of the level, mostly remaking each room's structure and and place I had used carve tool. Now even without the window, only with the new door theres the same problem. I've tried placing a hint brush at the door but it doesn't change the problem, then again I've never really used them before. Heres mat_wireframe view and normal view, dont know if it's of any use.

Skybox brushes block visibility, but if VIS is telling HL2 that it can
see that area, it WILL be rendered over the skybox. If you aren't
running VIS on full, try that. Check for leaks, etc.

I doubt that carving is the problem. Carving itself isn't bad,
although I imagine that a mapper with reasonable experience won't
carve. Your problem is that VIS thinks it can see those rooms
from outside, and that's either horrible brushwork or a leak.
Maybe you could post your compile log, you may have an error of
some sort.

Here it is:
** Executing...
** Command: "c:\program files\valve\steam\steamapps\wlldman862\sourcesdk\bin\vbsp.exe"
** Parameters: -game "c:\program files\valve\steam\steamapps\wlldman862\half-life 2 deathmatch\hl2mp" "C:\Program Files\Valve\Steam\SteamApps\wlldman862\sourcesdk_content\hl2mp\mapsrc\lab2"

Valve Software - vbsp.exe (Jan 19 2005)
1 threads
materialPath: c:\program files\valve\steam\steamapps\wlldman862\half-life 2 deathmatch\hl2mp\materials
Loading C:\Program Files\Valve\Steam\SteamApps\wlldman862\sourcesdk_content\hl2mp\mapsrc\lab2.vmf
fixing up env_cubemap materials on brush sides...
ProcessBlock_Thread: 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 (0)
ProcessBlock_Thread: 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 (0)
Processing areas...done (0)
Building Faces...done (0)
Chop Details...done (0)
Find Visible Detail Sides...done (0)
Merging details...done (0)
FixTjuncs...
PruneNodes...
WriteBSP...
done (0)
writing C:\Program Files\Valve\Steam\SteamApps\wlldman862\sourcesdk_content\hl2mp\mapsrc\lab2.prt...done (0)
Creating default cubemaps for env_cubemap using skybox sky_day02_01...
Run buildcubemaps in the engine to get the correct cube maps.
Finding displacement neighbors...
Finding lightmap sample positions...
Displacement Alpha : 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10
Building Physics collision data...
done (0) (33345 bytes)
Emitting linux collision data (use -nolinuxdata to disable).
Building Physics collision data...
done (0) (33345 bytes)
Placing detail props : 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10
Water found with no water_lod_control entity, creating a default one.
Writing C:\Program Files\Valve\Steam\SteamApps\wlldman862\sourcesdk_content\hl2mp\mapsrc\lab2.bsp
1 second elapsed
Memory leak: mempool blocks left in memory: 48
Memory leak: mempool blocks left in memory: 6

** Executing...
** Command: "c:\program files\valve\steam\steamapps\wlldman862\sourcesdk\bin\vvis.exe"
** Parameters: -game "c:\program files\valve\steam\steamapps\wlldman862\half-life 2 deathmatch\hl2mp" "C:\Program Files\Valve\Steam\SteamApps\wlldman862\sourcesdk_content\hl2mp\mapsrc\lab2"

Valve Software - vvis.exe (Dec 15 2004)
1 threads
reading c:\program files\valve\steam\steamapps\wlldman862\sourcesdk_content\hl2mp\mapsrc\lab2.bsp
reading c:\program files\valve\steam\steamapps\wlldman862\sourcesdk_content\hl2mp\mapsrc\lab2.prt
143 portalclusters
383 numportals
BasePortalVis: 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 (0)
PortalFlow: 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 (2)
Optimized: 44 visible clusters (0.00%)
Total clusters visible: 9221
Average clusters visible: 64
Building PAS...
Average clusters audible: 116
visdatasize:6207 compressed from 6864
writing c:\program files\valve\steam\steamapps\wlldman862\sourcesdk_content\hl2mp\mapsrc\lab2.bsp
2 seconds elapsed

** Executing...
** Command: "c:\program files\valve\steam\steamapps\wlldman862\sourcesdk\bin\vrad.exe"
** Parameters: -game "c:\program files\valve\steam\steamapps\wlldman862\half-life 2 deathmatch\hl2mp" "C:\Program Files\Valve\Steam\SteamApps\wlldman862\sourcesdk_content\hl2mp\mapsrc\lab2"

Valve Software - vrad.exe (Jan 18 2005)
----- Radiosity Simulator ----
1 threads
[Reading texlights from 'lights.rad']
[45 texlights parsed from 'lights.rad']

Loading c:\program files\valve\steam\steamapps\wlldman862\sourcesdk_content\hl2mp\mapsrc\lab2.bsp
426 faces
22536 square feet [3245325.25 square inches]
0 displacements
0 square feet [0.00 square inches]
426 patches before subdivision
2748 patches after subdivision
25 direct lights
BuildFacelights: 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 (4)
BuildVisLeafs: 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 (0)
transfers 123369, max 188
transfer lists: 0.9 megs
GatherLight: 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 (0)
Bounce #1 added RGB(17300, 20063, 19463)
GatherLight: 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 (0)
Bounce #2 added RGB(2695, 2804, 2438)
GatherLight: 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 (1)
Bounce #3 added RGB(454, 422, 332)
GatherLight: 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 (0)
Bounce #4 added RGB(78, 64, 45)
GatherLight: 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 (0)
Bounce #5 added RGB(13, 10, 6)
GatherLight: 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 (0)
Bounce #6 added RGB(2, 2, 1)
GatherLight: 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 (0)
Bounce #7 added RGB(0, 0, 0)
Build Patch/Sample Hash Table(s).....Done<0.0027 sec>
FinalLightFace: 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 (0)
FinalLightFace Done
Ready to Finish
6 of 17 (35% of) surface lights went in leaf ambient cubes.
ComputePerLeafAmbientLighting: 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10

Object names Objects/Maxobjs Memory / Maxmem Fullness
------------ --------------- --------------- --------
models 5/1024 240/49152 ( 0.5%)
brushes 95/8192 1140/98304 ( 1.2%)
brushsides 570/65536 4560/524288 ( 0.9%)
planes 392/65536 7840/1310720 ( 0.6%)
vertexes 890/65536 10680/786432 ( 1.4%)
nodes 313/65536 10016/2097152 ( 0.5%)
texinfos 152/12288 10944/884736 ( 1.2%)
texdata 29/2048 928/65536 ( 1.4%)
dispinfos 0/0 0/0 ( 0.0%)
disp_verts 0/0 0/0 ( 0.0%)
disp_tris 0/0 0/0 ( 0.0%)
disp_lmsamples 0/0 0/0 ( 0.0%)
faces 426/65536 23856/3670016 ( 0.7%)
origfaces 211/65536 11816/3670016 ( 0.3%)
leaves 319/65536 17864/3670016 ( 0.5%)
leaffaces 510/65536 1020/131072 ( 0.8%)
leafbrushes 215/65536 430/131072 ( 0.3%)
surfedges 2835/512000 11340/2048000 ( 0.6%)
edges 1640/256000 6560/1024000 ( 0.6%)
worldlights 25/8192 2200/720896 ( 0.3%)
waterstrips 29/32768 290/327680 ( 0.1%)
waterverts 0/65536 0/786432 ( 0.0%)
waterindices 453/65536 906/131072 ( 0.7%)
cubemapsamples 0/1024 0/16384 ( 0.0%)
overlays 0/512 0/180224 ( 0.0%)
lightdata [variable] 154488/0 ( 0.0%)
visdata [variable] 6207/16777216 ( 0.0%)
entdata [variable] 6074/393216 ( 1.5%)
occluders 0/0 0/0 ( 0.0%)
occluder polygons 0/0 0/0 ( 0.0%)
occluder vert ind 0/0 0/0 ( 0.0%)
detail props [variable] 1/12 ( 8.3%)
static props [variable] 1/394 ( 0.3%)
pakfile [variable] 10093/0 ( 0.0%)

Win32 Specific Data:
physics [variable] 33345/4194304 ( 0.8%)

Total Win32 BSP file data space used: 332839 bytes

Linux Specific Data:
physicssurface [variable] 33345/6291456 ( 0.5%)

Total Linux BSP file data space used: 332839 bytes

Total triangle count: 1139
Writing c:\program files\valve\steam\steamapps\wlldman862\sourcesdk_content\hl2mp\mapsrc\lab2.bsp
5 seconds elapsed

** Executing...
** Command: Copy File
** Parameters: "C:\Program Files\Valve\Steam\SteamApps\wlldman862\sourcesdk_content\hl2mp\mapsrc\lab2.bsp" "c:\program files\valve\steam\steamapps\wlldman862\half-life 2 deathmatch\hl2mp\maps\lab2.bsp"

Of course the door would do the same thing as the window. whats happening is that when the visibility matrix is calculated, it makes the door invisible. Basically it allows you to see from that outdoor area through the door (or window) and into the inside of that house (or whatever structure it is). Because the house is above the level of the wall there the engine renders the inside of the house and it looks incorrect because it doesnt render the outside of it. Basically you must either raise that wall up high enough so that it covers up the problem, or do what lep said and remove the sky brush from the top of that wall and actually let the area back there be totally visible.

Um....

Im telling you.... just move the skybox out far away from your map, and the problem will go away. If there is one part of your map that has high walls, put it on the other side of that area. What you're seeing sounds pretty normal, and begs the questoin: "if I had to write a sky-projector, then how would I get it to ignore the main level? You can't and still get the desired affect. Decompile de_dust/dust2, or spectate any of the valve maps, and you will see that they've designed around this problem by placing the skybox where 100% of it is occluded from the player's view, even if that occlusion occurs only because of distance.