Nickelplate said:
grrrr. EVERYONE who is not a complete moron "beleives in Christ."

What I meant was that they beleive in the DIVINITY of Christ. Muslims think he was just a guy, Christians know he was God as well.

Actually, according to muslims Jesus is another prophet: it's the prophet 'Issa. Muslims also believe in the Virgin Mary and the immaculate conception (that the other 23 chromosomes are from God).

I told you, Gwil :wink:

If you were in a room all alone and you heard a good song playing, then you went out to tell others about it, you'd still KNOW you heard the song because you beleive that you actually heard it. The other people say it was just your imagination playing tricks on you. There is no way for you to prove that you heard the song in the room. Do you only BELEIVE that you heard the song, or do you KNOW that you heard it?

It's easy to attack almost all of these analogies because they have one sore point: Probability.

For me and most rational thinking atheists it comes down to this. I could go back to the room, check the stero for a record, have myself tested by a psychologist, ect. ect. Ultimately I could get proof that makes it very obvious for one option to be more probable than the other.

In religion you won't find this. You have many followers and an over thousand years old book. But there is not much actual "proof". Nothing that makes Christianity more likely to be the truth than Buddhism. And if you play off science against religion based on probability (proof) it's 1,000,000:1 for science. The same is true for the probability of a plane crash based on proof. I'm not saying that it's impossible that one day I stand before god and he tells me I'm an ignorant sinner and sends me to hell. It's just very, very, very unlikely and improbable.

PS: I just found a website Nickelplate will love:
http://www.ratemyturban.com/

There is no stereo in the room, you just heard a really good song. And psychology is not an exact science. If it came down to a psychosis, it would still only be an educated guess, and you would have to have faith in any doctor that diagnosed you. Because there is no REAL scientific way to tell if you have Pseudophonic Hallucinations.

Science beleives that the universe is infinite. Another branch of science tells us that there is an INFINITE amount of possibilities for every infinitessimal moment of time. So in all these infinities, there is no chance of God existing in the Christian sense? If you say no, then you argue with most of the science out there, don't you?

So, I disagree that it's a million to one against Christianity. No Christian will argue against litmus paper telling the PH of a liquid.they won't argue against plate tectonics or solar flares or magnetic poles or Gravity I'd say that just about everything in science is perfectly okay with Christians. But if you compare science and Christianity only on the points where they disagree (creation, evolution) There's really very little evidence for either one. There is no more proof for the Big Bang than there is for "God made it." So, I admire your faith in the theory of man.

---

I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

fishy said:
<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting OtZman</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>Some people seem to think that what is different from what they think and are used to is wrong.

most westerners think that flying aeroplanes into the trade towers was wrong, and you probably agree. this is the modern face of islam to a large part of the western world, even if it's not the true face. if this isn't true islam, then to lose this face can only be done be real muslims that are willing to stand up to those that have hijacked their religion, instead of standing still, in fear and silence, as many have.
</div></div>
Of course I agree that flying planes into the WTC was wrong. The kind of values I meant was for example the use of veils (please correct me if I'm using the wrong word) by women in many islamic countries. I honestly don't know about the rest of the world, but I'd wager that most Swedes with non-islamic backgounds think this is something the men force women to use. This is wrong. It is something that women choose to wear by themselves. It is a tradition. For people that aren't used to this custom this might seem as something very odd. "Why cover yourself with a piece of cloth?". For those that are used to this custom however, this is something completely natural.

Nickelplate said:
oh, I'm sorry, Otzman. I was unaware that the Koran has an "Old Testament." By that I mean, are there parts in the Koran that you are specifically told to disregard in a later part. The bible has this. The Koran doesn't.

Oh, and when's the last time Christians burned the Saudi embassy because of a "jesus" cartoon?

If I'm not entirely mistaken, the Koran also tells to not hurt each other. (Please correct me if I'm wrong). And, to be honest, does it matter what the Koran or the Bibel say exactly? As Cassius pointed out earlier, religion is something for the individual to subjectively interpret. If one has to believe every single word in the Koran/Bible to be a true believer, that would knock down the number of muslims/christians considerably. Most sunni muslims (about 85%-90% of all muslims) wouldn't count, as they interpret the content of the Koran to a greater extent than shi'a muslims do. And if every word has to be believed, that would make them non-believers.

As for the attacks on the embassy related to the danish cartoons, please try to understand both "sides". In the current situation, especially after what happened on the 11:th of September, many muslims that are just as innocent as those that died on that day (except the hijackers of course) are viewed as terrorists. What do you think it feels like to be compared with terrorsits who commited such an act when you're completely innocent? What I'm trying to say is that muslims are being kicked on around the world for various reasons out of their control. Islam is currently being the target of everyone. If you push someone long and hard enough they will eventually start to push back.

That is what I think is happening. I consider myself a muslim, even though the only thing I actively follow is to not eat the food that is forbidden. Even though I'm a very unstrict, I still can feel the hostility against Islam, and it angers me. I can only imagine what kind of anger and vulnerability those that are following Islam more strictly feel.

In such times, I think everyone has a bit of responsibility, especially those heard by many, such as the Pope. His quote was inappropriate, I think. It was good that he apologized. As one muslim said, (can't remember who it was or where I read it) the apology opened up for a conversation.

Nickelplate said:
But the New Testament does not contradict the Old law about graven images, so it still stands. Pretty much, the New Testament has taken the Slavery, Violence and other undesireable parts from the bible because of Jesus' command to love others as ourselves. If you are a CHRISTIAN - someone who beleives in Christ - then you will love others as yourself and you will not take a violent interpretation of any scripture. Nor will you fly planes into a building.

Please, tell me, is it your honest belief that muslims in general commit acts of terror, or that it is part of their religion? The way you generalize makes me wonder...

Nickelplate said:
grrrr. EVERYONE who is not a complete moron "beleives in Christ."

What I meant was that they beleive in the DIVINITY of Christ. Muslims think he was just a guy, Christians know he was God as well.

As Kain pointed out, muslims believe that Jesus was a prophet, not just a guy.

---

What the Snarkpitters listen to!

It's not just muslims that are targeted, at least in the united states, Otzman. Christianity has been turned into a group of "intolerant haters" by the media. We are not "terrorists" in thier eyes, like muslims are. We are just viewed as hating everyone.

I also know how you feel to a certain extent about clothing and eating restrictions. I do not eat any biblically forbidden foods, and our girls do not ever wear pants or revealing, slutty clothing. Most people think this is because the men make them, but it's just because the women want to do what is right. They cover thier hair as well. So I suppose it's a bit the same. I think there is more thoughts of sexism against Islam because lots of Islamic nations in africa and some middle-eastern ones practice Female Circumcision (the removal of all pleasurable parts of female anatomy, to "keep them from cheating on thier husbands") I'm not sure if that's from the Koran or if it is left over from the other religions that were there... but most people equate that with Islam.

I don't think that ALL muslims are terrorists. I think that all muslims beleive in the Koran. I think that the Koran is not REALLY from God. So, by any logic that means that I beleive that Muslims are not fully correct in thier beleifs. And I suppose it makes me angry that even a small percentage of them are willing to kill so many people in the name of something false when if they would follow the religion that I practice (with the same zeal and fervor as they practices Islam) they would never do such things.

Many muslims have a very admirable amount of faith and a great amount of willpower to abstain from the things they abstain from. But the general additude of Islam seems to be anger and resentment.

Even bleiveing that Jesus was a prophet is not enough to "beleive in Christ." You must believe that Jesus was God and the Son thereof.

---

I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

I think that all muslims beleive in the Koran. I think that the Koran is not REALLY from God. So, by any logic that means that I beleive that Muslims are not fully correct in thier beleifs. And I suppose it makes me angry that even a small percentage of them are willing to kill so many people in the name of something false.

Nickelplate said:
It's not just muslims that are targeted, at least in the united states, Otzman. Christianity has been turned into a group of "intolerant haters" by the media. We are not "terrorists" in thier eyes, like muslims are. We are just viewed as hating everyone.

Here in Sweden I haven't noticed as much hostility towards Christianity as towards Islam. Could be that I'm not christian and therefore not noticing it in the same way. In general, I think religion is a good think because of the good values and moral it brings.

Nickelplate said:
I also know how you feel to a certain extent about clothing and eating restrictions. I do not eat any biblically forbidden foods, and our girls do not ever wear pants or revealing, slutty clothing. Most people think this is because the men make them, but it's just because the women want to do what is right. They cover thier hair as well. So I suppose it's a bit the same.

Is this something all branches of Christianity (should) do?

Nickelplate said:
I think there is more thoughts of sexism against Islam because lots of Islamic nations in africa and some middle-eastern ones practice Female Circumcision (the removal of all pleasurable parts of female anatomy, to "keep them from cheating on thier husbands") I'm not sure if that's from the Koran or if it is left over from the other religions that were there... but most people equate that with Islam.

Female circumcision is not part of Islam, it just happens to be practiced in some of the islamic countries. Dunno if it is left over from other religions or just culture in general though.

Nickelplate said:
I don't think that ALL muslims are terrorists.

Good to hear.

Nickelplate said:
I think that all muslims beleive in the Koran. I think that the Koran is not REALLY from God. So, by any logic that means that I beleive that Muslims are not fully correct in thier beleifs.

You are christian so I suppose you thinking muslims aren't fully correct in their beliefs make sense.

Nickelplate said:
And I suppose it makes me angry that even a small percentage of them are willing to kill so many people in the name of something false when if they would follow the religion that I practice (with the same zeal and fervor as they practices Islam) they would never do such things.

Even though it is your belief, saying that Islam is false is wrong, I think. If the same people had followed Christianity with the same zeal and fervor as they practice Islam, AND if Christianity had been in the same position as Islam is today, they might have done the same thing. Maybe not.

Nickelplate said:
Many muslims have a very admirable amount of faith and a great amount of willpower to abstain from the things they abstain from. But the general additude of Islam seems to be anger and resentment.

Again, I think that this anger mainly comes from the situation Islam is currently in. I have no accurate idea what the view of Christianity is out in the world, but I have a feeling that even though many people might be bashing Christianity as well, Islam i currently in a different seat. Christians may be viewed as "intolerant haters", but muslims are being viewed as terrorists, as suicide bombers ect, waging some kind of holy war, which I think is a bit worse.

Nickelplate said:
Even bleiveing that Jesus was a prophet is not enough to "beleive in Christ." You must believe that Jesus was God and the Son thereof.

Again, this is a matter of belief. For a christian, believing that Jesus was "just" a prophet is not enough, while it is the correct belief for a muslim.

---

What the Snarkpitters listen to!

The kind of values I meant was for example the use of veils (please correct me if I'm using the wrong word) by women in many islamic countries. I honestly don't know about the rest of the world, but I'd wager that most Swedes with non-islamic backgounds think this is something the men force women to use. This is wrong. It is something that women choose to wear by themselves. It is a tradition. For people that aren't used to this custom this might seem as something very odd. "Why cover yourself with a piece of cloth?". For those that are used to this custom however, this is something completely natural.

I think it's dangerous to go into this argumentation because women do lack rights in many islamic countries. Probably in Sweden islamic women do have the right to choose (if their husband and family allows) but in more extremist countries a women can't go out in the street without a veil. I think it's against the law in Saudi Arabia and women without a veil and a male companion suffer severe harassment in many other islamic countries. It was even worse a few years ago. And to be honest, I find it cynical to say that "all islamic women choose to wear their veil". Because many wear it primarily out of fear of punishment.

Is it explicitely forbidden in the Christian religion to portray Jesus? Didn't think so. If it was, I'm sure you'ld be the first to grab a pitchfork. Otherwise you wouldn't be a true believer, right?

AtM said:
Well, if you're content with only playing Blizzard games, you could just go with Macs.

Well, I've noticed lately that I"m not playing many games, and the games I am playing require such little power that I could play them on this laptop for 3000 years.

I'm also pretty sure that they'll get a solid Windows emulator on a mac in the near future. And if not... whatever.

So yeah, I'm definitely going for a mac.

they already have a program that will run windows in parallel, but the only function of mac's i like that windows doesn't have is the ability to make everything shown on the monitor a negative of itself, quite a funny joke to play on people if they don't know the key command

reaper47 said:
<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quote:</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>The kind of values I meant was for example the use of veils (please correct me if I'm using the wrong word) by women in many islamic countries. I honestly don't know about the rest of the world, but I'd wager that most Swedes with non-islamic backgounds think this is something the men force women to use. This is wrong. It is something that women choose to wear by themselves. It is a tradition. For people that aren't used to this custom this might seem as something very odd. "Why cover yourself with a piece of cloth?". For those that are used to this custom however, this is something completely natural.

I think it's dangerous to go into this argumentation because women do lack rights in many islamic countries. Probably in Sweden islamic women do have the right to choose (if their husband and family allows) but in more extremist countries a women can't go out in the street without a veil. I think it's against the law in Saudi Arabia and women without a veil and a male companion suffer severe harassment in many other islamic countries. It was even worse a few years ago. And to be honest, I find it cynical to say that "islamic women choose to wear their veil". Because many wear it primarily out of fear of punishment.</div></div>
What you are saying is true. In some islamistic countries, women are oppressed. However I think that a majority of all women that are muslims are not.

The difference in value and culture does make it seem like more women are oppressed than there really are, I think. One example is when a woman is staying home, taking care of the children and the house, while her husband is working. In "the west", this might look like the woman isn't given the possibility to work, that they aren't allowed to. I think that people in these countries, including the women, see it from a different perspective. To them these roles are natural. While the woman is taking care of the home, the man is out working to provide for his family.

There are of course countries and families where the women are oppressed and forced to do things against their will, having less rights ect. What I think though is that the majority of women are not oppressed, even though some are.

---

What the Snarkpitters listen to!

OtZman said:
<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Nickelplate</DIV>
<div class="quotetext">I also know how you feel to a certain extent about clothing and eating restrictions. I do not eat any biblically forbidden foods, and our girls do not ever wear pants or revealing, slutty clothing. Most people think this is because the men make them, but it's just because the women want to do what is right. They cover thier hair as well. So I suppose it's a bit the same.

Is this something all branches of Christianity (should) do?

Dressing modestly, and not wearing slutty clothes is something that all Branches of true Christianity beleive in, but they still don't all do it. We must dress modestly so that we do not cause others to stumble. Some churches take it farther than others and most take it very lightly. My church has decided to be more conservative in its views.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Nickelplate</DIV>
<div class="quotetext">I think there is more thoughts of sexism against Islam because lots of Islamic nations in africa and some middle-eastern ones practice Female Circumcision (the removal of all pleasurable parts of female anatomy, to "keep them from cheating on thier husbands") I'm not sure if that's from the Koran or if it is left over from the other religions that were there... but most people equate that with Islam.
</DIV></DIV>

Female circumcision is not part of Islam, it just happens to be practiced in some of the islamic countries. Dunno if it is left over from other religions or just culture in general though.

I figured it wasn't Mohammed's doing.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Nickelplate</DIV>
<div class="quotetext">I think that all muslims beleive in the Koran. I think that the Koran is not REALLY from God. So, by any logic that means that I beleive that Muslims are not fully correct in thier beleifs.
</DIV></DIV>

You are christian so I suppose you thinking muslims aren't fully correct in their beliefs make sense.

Of course. And no offence is meant, but I cannot deny my conviction on such things.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Nickelplate</DIV>
<div class="quotetext">And I suppose it makes me angry that even a small percentage of them are willing to kill so many people in the name of something false when if they would follow the religion that I practice (with the same zeal and fervor as they practices Islam) they would never do such things.
</DIV></DIV>

Even though it is your belief, saying that Islam is false is wrong, I think. If the same people had followed Christianity with the same zeal and fervor as they practice Islam, AND if Christianity had been in the same position as Islam is today, they might have done the same thing. Maybe not.

It is part of my belief in the Bible that "islam is false." It is my belief that ALL other religions are false, not just targeting islam on this one. There are no violent verses for Christians to follow. Not even one! I don't see how it would come about that Christians (real ones, not nutty folks) would ever do anything like that.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Nickelplate</DIV>
<div class="quotetext">Many muslims have a very admirable amount of faith and a great amount of willpower to abstain from the things they abstain from. But the general additude of Islam seems to be anger and resentment.
</DIV></DIV>

Again, I think that this anger mainly comes from the situation Islam is currently in. I have no accurate idea what the view of Christianity is out in the world, but I have a feeling that even though many people might be bashing Christianity as well, Islam i currently in a different seat. Christians may be viewed as "intolerant haters", but muslims are being viewed as terrorists, as suicide bombers ect, waging some kind of holy war, which I think is a bit worse.

The only muslims we ever hear about are either terrorist leaders, or have already blown themselves up. So of course we have this view. It's time for sensible ones like yourself to show us that you care by keeping the nutbags from killing innocent people.

</div></div>

In muslim countries, they should make a rule that anyone who commits suicide will have thier remains soaked in Pig's blood to make sure they never reach heaven. This will deter Suicide bombers.

</div></div></div></div></div>

---

I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

I voted other. The other being that the media should apologise, not the
Pope. Hands up who's read/heard the soundbite in its proper context?

While perhaps not an exhaustive method of following paper trails,
google news provides a fairly indicitive chronology of events if you
search for "pope "Sep 13, 2006"", then incrementally changing the date.
For the sake of arguement let us suppose that any story involving the
incident will have at least one instance of the word "pope" in them.

Sep 13, 2006: Two headlines with "pope" in them: "Pope Calls for
Harmony in the Church"- ABC and "PrimeCell Therapeutics Invited to
Present Its Germ Line Research ..." - PharmaLive.com. One is completly
benign, the other, largely nothing to do with the focus in further
days...

Sep 14, 2006: Just one headline:
"Pope
Benedict XVI angers Muslims during German visit"- Monsters and
Critics. The website quotes a BBC report that Police have seized
newpapers about the article "which reported the Pope's comments to
prevent any outbreak of reactionary violence.". Lacking a Lexis Nexis
account for confirmation, we must assume that this article is indeed
the first report of anger stirring in the muslim world.

Sep 15, 2006: The 4 stories are about the condemnation and dismay at
the Popes quotation in the muslim world, and begin to isolate the quote
from its context.

Sep 16, 2006: As the story starts to get speed, ABC news' article
mentions the attempts of clarification by the church (of course by now
its too late):

"In a broader talk rejecting any
religious motivation for violence, Benedict cited the words of a
Byzantine emperor who characterized some of the teachings of the
Prophet Muhammad as "evil and inhuman," particularly "his command to
spread by the sword the faith."<br style="font-style: italic;">
The pontiff did not endorse that
description, but he did not question it, and his words set off a
firestorm of protests across the Muslim world.<br style="font-style: italic;">
The new Vatican secretary of state,
Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, said the pope's position on Islam is
unmistakably in line with Vatican teaching that says the church
"esteems" Muslims.<br style="font-style: italic;">
Benedict "thus sincerely regrets that
certain passages of his address could have sounded offensive to the
sensitivities of the Muslim faithful and should have been interpreted
in a manner that in no way corresponds to his intentions," Bertone said
in a statement.<br style="font-style: italic;">
He noted that earlier during his
German trip, Benedict warned "secularized Western culture" against
holding contempt for any religion or believers. "

From here on in, its open season, with the vast majority of articles
only using the Soundbite (a quote of someone quoting someone else).
There is only one place where you can now see
the
quote in context, and I had to find it myself, since by now the
Media's rabble-rousing has completely buried it is on the vatican's
website.

So the obvious question is; why on earth would the government
controlled media corporation of a country currently attacking countries
with "Muslim Extremists" ever want to stir the s**t further? Perhaps
they were afraid that we would begin to see arabs as human if they just
weren't pissed off and rattling their chains all the time, and of
course, that would never do.

A pretty dirty trick to drag Catholicism into the fray. [/2 cents]

Mephs ahoy!!!

you're not suggesting that there's some sort of conspiracy, are you? :smile:

---

i eat paint

Ahoy Fish, of course not fishy. The very idea that the BBC would ever pander to the needs of British foriegn policy are ubsurd!

Interesting, Mephs. I read it on a german news site. "Islamischer Zorn gegen Papst Benedikt." It just means "Muslim anger against Pope Benedict."

Maybe they are trying to make it look a certain way...

---

I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

well, media has always had a strong ability to influence the public by telling stories in odd ways, due to the inability of people to question anything they hear on t.v. it works quite well

well, media has always had a strong ability to influence the
public by telling stories in odd ways, due to the inability of people
to question anything they hear on t.v. it works quite well

Its not so much people's inability to question anything, rather the
ability to pick the questions in the first place. If you take the poll
on this thread as an example, the question is should the pope
apologise? but almost nowhere is the question what did he actually say? So there is obviously a lot of debating, but its taking that the pope said this in isolation as a given.

I don't think any of us doubts that the quote was taken out of context. But I honestly don't think extremist islamic preachers needed our media to find the quote.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached" [full text]

The quote was poorly choosen and is even interweaven with the rest of the speach in a way that doesn't make it clear he opposes the words.

Not seeing the quote in context doesn't change that much. It's hardly connected to the rest of the speech (which does promote peace) and nowhere he clearly dismisses the quote's statement.

If Ahmadinejad quotes Bin Laden and doesn't clearly reject his believes it would be an international scandal, too. A political more than a religious scandal but the pope can't say he didn't know how much politics and islam are connected in many countries.

_________________________________________________________

OtZman, I'm sure you're right that there are many (perhaps a majority) of women who do not consider them oppressed in their situation.

But please be aware that statements like this (although I'm fully aware that you're a good guy and never meant it that way) feel very offensive and ignorant to most westeners, probably encouraging the hiatus between the cultures. There is a major women rights problem in many islamic states and if you say that the majority of women doesn't care and the minority is exaggerated this looks like you're closing your eyes, holding your ears and start singing.

There are clearly misunderstandings but when it comes to things like human rights (and veils are nothing but a visible symbol and certainly not the most terrible thing some women have to endure) I don't think that's something that should be put into the category of "poor, misunderstood muslims". If you put it there you'll get a problem with most westerners.

reaper47 said:
OtZman, I'm sure you're right that there are many (perhaps a majority) of women who do not consider them oppressed in their situation.

But please be aware that statements like this (although I'm fully aware that you're a good guy and never meant it that way) feel very offensive and ignorant to most westeners, probably encouraging the hiatus between the cultures. There is a major women rights problem in many islamic states and if you say that the majority of women doesn't care and the minority is exaggerated this looks like you're closing your eyes, holding your ears and start singing.

There are clearly misunderstandings but when it comes to things like human rights (and veils are nothing but a visible symbol and certainly not the most terrible thing some women have to endure) I don't think that's something that should be put into the category of "poor, misunderstood muslims". If you put it there you'll get a problem with most westerners.

In all honesty, I don't know if most islamic women are oppressed/suffering or not, I just think they aren't. That could be because my islamic relatives and friends aren't oppressing/being oppressed. As they are pretty much the only contact I've had with Islam besides media and non-muslims I tend to trust them more. So, I could be wrong. And I apologize if my statment was offensive, it wasn't meant to be.

I just want people to see that being a muslim doesn't automatically make you a terrorist oppressing women. This is the picture media is showing for the most part, which is very unfortunate.

Interesting point about the media, Mephs. And welcome back :smile: , if you haven't been around lately that is. I haven't been around enough myself to tell. :razz:

---

What the Snarkpitters listen to!

It looks like the pope did apologize after all.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/09/25/pope.muslims/index.html

<div class="quote"><div class="quotetitle">

? quote:</div><div class="quotetext">he pope, who on September 17 expressed he was "deeply sorry" for the
reaction to comments he made, said Wednesday the emperor's words did
not reflect how he himself felt.

</div></div>

/me thinks this is pertinant

http://www.glumbert.com/media/monkeys

---

o

Funny and educational. Me likes.

Baron von Snickers said:
/me thinks this is pertinant

http://www.glumbert.com/media/monkeys

Page Not Found
The page you are looking for could not be found. You may have mistyped the URL, or due to unforseen circumstances the page is not currently available. If you wish to find the page, try using the search bar to the right.

:sad: ...

---

What the Snarkpitters listen to!

I believe you mean 404

---

Also change the texture of the dock. Docks are rarely tile. -Facepunch
As I Lay Dying

Hehe... you gotta hatez0r 4o4.

---

What the Snarkpitters listen to!

That's funny. It was there a minute ago. The baboons stole it!

I don't know what exactly muslims consider an "excuse" but somehow the popes various statements that he didn't mean it offensive and disagrees with the quote weren't enough. Which I don't quite understand. Looks like it's as futile as people said.

In other news a mozart opera in germany was cancelled because of fear of terror (it supposedly has some islam-related content). It appears there was no actual thread or danger. If this really was an act of self-cencorship then it's just sad.

I don't think anything will ever be good enough for Islam. They seem to be like a drunk bully intent on beating the crap out of everyone.

You say one little thing against them, and they go ballistic. You apologize and they demand more.

I guess what I mean is. WHAT, exactly, does Islam WANT from the rest of the world? Do they want to be Kings, or what? I just don't understand WHAt it is they want.

It's like black people... They used to be called Negroes, and they wanted to be called colored. We call them colored and they want to be called black. we call them black and they want to be "afro-american." We call them afro-american and they want to be african american. We call them african american and they want to be called "ebony." WTF! Nothing we ever do or say will be good enough. So what is thier final goal... WHAT DO THEY WANT>!>!>!

---

I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

I don't think anything will ever be good enough for Islam. They seem to be like a drunk bully intent on beating the crap out of everyone.
You say one little thing against them, and they go ballistic. You apologize and they demand more.
I guess what I mean is. WHAT, exactly, does Islam WANT from the rest of the world? Do they want to be Kings, or what? I just don't understand WHAt it is they want.
It's like black people... They used to be called Negroes, and they wanted to be called colored. We call them colored and they want to be called black. we call them black and they want to be "afro-american." We call them afro-american and they want to be african american. We call them african american and they want to be called "ebony." WTF! Nothing we ever do or say will be good enough. So what is thier final goal... WHAT DO THEY WANT>!>!>!

Again, you are generalizing. This is exactly what leads to racism and hostility towards people with other skin color/religion/culture/favorite football team/whatever.

Just because a few blondes are stupid, does that mean everyone is? Don't think so.

---

What the Snarkpitters listen to!

Yeah all generalizations are wrong. :razz:

But seriously, most of my black friends don't get bent out of shape like you say "they" do.

of course not ALL of them do! That's the whole freakin' POINT! That's the point of generalization. to make a simple statement with IMPLIED meanings.

When I say "blacks fought for their civil rights," do you think i mean that EVERY SINGLE black person in the world fought at the SAME time for the SAME exact set of rights? If so, place yourself in the "idiot" category.

There are plenty of muslims that do not agree with the ones who are fighting, but that doesnt mean that muslims are not fighting.

---

I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Nickelplate</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>of course not ALL of them do! That's the whole freakin' POINT! That's the point of generalization. to make a simple statement with IMPLIED meanings.
When I say "blacks fought for their civil rights," do you think i mean that EVERY SINGLE black person in the world fought at the SAME time for the SAME exact set of rights? If so, place yourself in the "idiot" category.
</DIV></DIV>
Could you please point out where exactly you said "blacks fought for their civil rights,"? You said something different. Let me give you an example to clarify what I mean. Can you see the difference between the two following statements? (please note I've taken these statements to the extreme to get my point through):

Statement number 1:
"The only thing those f**king ni***rs do is steal!"
Statement number 2:
"A higher precentage of blacks engage in criminal activities than whites"

Your statement gives a bad picture of black people. Your statement makes it sound like the only think blacks do is complain, and that the whole issue with different names blacks have had to endure is just an exaggeration. If a black person read it he could very well be offended. Could you please take this into consideration when generalizing in the future?

Also, would you please not imply that I am an idiot, Nickelplate.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Nickelplate</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>There are plenty of muslims that do not agree with the ones who are fighting, but that doesnt mean that muslims are not fighting.</DIV></DIV>
If this is the case, could you then please say:

"I don't think anything will ever be good enough for some muslims."

and

"I guess what I mean is. WHAT, exactly, do these muslims WANT from the rest of the world?"

Not only did you do another untasteful generalization, you put your finger on the entire religion of Islam. Even though you are a firm believer of your religion, could you please try to understand that others might have other, similarly strong beliefs? Could you please try to respect these beliefs even tough you firmly believe that they are lies?

---

What the Snarkpitters listen to!

Saying "blacks fought for their civil rights" and "blacks are fickle ninnies who need to make up their minds" isn't the same at all.

Edit: I agree with OtZman's more-substantial reply.

[provocateur]

I'm surprised that no-one here has even considered that Islam and
Christianity may pretty much be the same thing. Boo, yeah, I can hear
the rants coming, but Islam appeared in
Arabia in the 7th century (AD). It could very well be a different
interpretation of the Christian Dogma we all so proudly cherish. Sure,
why not? Allah = God. Mohammed = Jesus. Jesus rising from the dead to
the heavens and sitting besides The Holy Father = Mohammed rising to
the Heavens on a Golden Horse and sitting besides Allah.<br style="color: violet;">
Check it out, we worship the same god.<br style="color: violet;">
Now can we let it die?[/provocateur]<br style="color: violet;">

Andrei said:
I'm surprised that no-one here has even considered that Islam and Christianity may pretty much be the same thing. Boo, yeah, I can hear the rants coming, but Islam appeared in Arabia in the 7th century (AD). It could very well be a different interpretation of the Christian Dogma we all so proudly cherish. Sure, why not? Allah = God. Mohammed = Jesus. Jesus rising from the dead to the heavens and sitting besides The Holy Father = Mohammed rising to the Heavens on a Golden Horse and sitting besides Allah.<BR style="COLOR: violet">Check it out, we worship the same god.<BR style="COLOR: violet">Now can we let it die?<BR style="COLOR: violet">

Allah and God are one and the same, at least according to what I've been thaught. Dunno about the Christian perspective. Even though Muhammed and Jesus aren't the same, they kind of fill the same purpose in both religions.

---

What the Snarkpitters listen to!

<DIV>
A Professor was giving a lecture on "Involuntary Muscular Contractions" to his first year medical students. Realizing that this was not the most riveting subject, the Professor decided to lighten the mood slightly.

He pointed to a young woman in the front row and said, "Do you know what your ass hole is doing while you're having an orgasm?"

She replied, "Probably deer hunting with his buddies."

****i think we all needed a break... :smile: </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Doc B... :dodgy: </DIV>

Thanks, Brass :smile:

Nickel - you're treading on a fine line here. If this thread continues
to flare up and down with mis-informed/reaction style posting and
counter posting, it'll be closed. Not to mention the fact it's deviated
massively from the subject and is in actual fact, currently, incredibly
boring ill advised dirge.

Seconded. Nickel, you're sounding more and more like Ann Coulter with each post!

shudders

Just to give a quick reality check for everyone here; if, in every even
remotely negative statement, the wolds 'Islam' and 'Muslims' were
replaced with 'Judaeism' and 'Jews', this thread would not have lasted
more than half an hour without being closed, and most of us would at
least squirm in our seats reading them.

So its quite obvious that the western society has boundries on what can and cannot be said against favoured religions,
and proves blatant anti-muslim racism (which is quite a handy
"coincidence", considering every country being invaded, chastised or
threatened lately are predominately muslim). Propaganda machine to the
rescue!

Puritanism and Judaeism are the only favored western religions I can think of, and Puritanism to a lesser degree, and only in the US.

As for DcB's suggestion, he's right. Everyone should just take a step back, and look at what the rest of the world is doing. (A new threat, I know.)

---

Also change the texture of the dock. Docks are rarely tile. -Facepunch
As I Lay Dying

In the end we all need to be Buddhists. That's the best religion in the world, and I'm slowly leaning to denounce my Atheist 'faith' and become Buddhist.

Nickelplate said:
... They used to be called Negroes, and they wanted to be called colored. We call them colored and they want to be called black. we call them black and they want to be "afro-american." We call them afro-american and they want to be african american. We call them african american and they want to be called "ebony." WTF! Nothing we ever do or say will be good enough. So what is thier final goal... WHAT DO THEY WANT>!>!>!

Well, I believe the latest nomenclature would be "a brother", whereas a white guy is refered to as "a honkey". I saw that in an Ali G episode :smile:

OtZman said:
Statement number 1:
"The only thing those f**king ni***rs do is steal!"
Statement number 2:
"A higher precentage of blacks engage in criminal activities than whites"

Your statement gives a bad picture of black people.

I kinda see your point. But also, MY STATEMENT does not make blacks (or muslims) look bad. The blacks who "engage in criminal activities" do. and the Muslims who kill in the name of thier religion make the muslims look bad. My comments only say what is really happening.

Also, would you please not imply that I am an idiot, Nickelplate.

Okay, But then If i think you are one, I'll tell you.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Nickelplate</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>There are plenty of muslims that do not agree with the ones who are fighting, but that doesnt mean that muslims are not fighting.

If this is the case, could you then please say:

"I don't think anything will ever be good enough for some muslims."

and

"I guess what I mean is. WHAT, exactly, do these muslims WANT from the rest of the world?"

Not only did you do another untasteful generalization, you put your finger on the entire religion of Islam. Even though you are a firm believer of your religion, could you please try to understand that others might have other, similarly strong beliefs? Could you please try to respect these beliefs even tough you firmly believe that they are lies?

</div></div>

Why do I have to censor my speech to keep from maybe offending some people, when "the small group of muslims that I'm talking about" do not censor thier bombs to keep from killing people?

I understand that thier beleifs may be as strong or stronger than mine, but I don't see why they have to kill about it. All I do is speak out against them. THEY kill and terrorize against us.
and by "they" i mean the BAD muslims, not ALL muslims. :rolleyes:

---

I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

i was taught that many of the other religions worship the same being or at least believe in him only by different names, the main difference in a religion is usually not who you worship, but how you worship

even inside "Christianity" there are many variations, as a Catholic in an area that's dominated by Baptists i have recieved a surprising amount of criticism from members of my community who don't understand the Catholic faith at all, i will give Nickel credit in that he actually educated himself enough to understand that which the rest of our community doesn't. It seems to me that many of the conflicts in the world's history spawn from religious misunderstandings

Nickelplate, if we said something (I'd never do that outside this unfourtunate example, by the way) like "Christians are insane, warlike, creationist bible bangers that would like to cencor all biology books and conquer all non-christian countries!" You'd find it offensive and inappropriate, too. At least very impolite and generalising. Well, at least ignorant.

Why do I have to censor my speech to keep from maybe offending some people, when "the small group of muslims that I'm talking about" do not censor thier bombs to keep from killing people?

Cencor their bombs? You are aware that hate speeches and generalisation are responsible for all the attacks by extremist muslims? People who had nothing to do with the wars in the middle east, people that aren't even from America were killed in the 9/11 attacks. Because of generalisation.

"They're all part of the group of Satan that America is!".

Do you really think that generalisation like this is not dangerous? I know nobody will get killed because of what you are saying here. But people will die because what millions of people say, because they don't care. Don't you want to avoid belonging to this group?

Yeah, I don't want to be in the group of people who generalize to such a degree that people get killed.

But, I don't know if you'll beleive this or not: I hear or read generalizations about me and my beliefs multiple times a day most days. The thing is, that I don't get all mad and start bombing people, in fact I barely even flame online. It makes me more sad than anything because I know that the Christians before me did not do thier job properly by living as an example. I know that it has caused millions of people to go to hell.

The difference between my generalizations and the dangerous ones is so much that I think that maybe they are different things completely. I know that not ALL muslims are terrorists. I know that not ALL jews are complainers. I know that not ALL whites are power-mad robber-barons. But it is either the majority, or the high profile of the ones who are that way that cause the stereotypes. BUT, I still know that stereotypes are NOT true all the time.

---

I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

This is boring now, and going precisely nowhere. Thread closed.