dm_Crash

This map is fairly small compared to what ells i have seen. it has 2 levels and an basement. with 2 rooms 2 stories high.
i tried to keep good flow throughout the map. if anyone sees something that could be improved, tell me.
-the only lighting i have now is just their so i can see the map.
-i haven't chosen any textures yet, what i have up now is just there to give me something to go on.
-i plan on deleting most of the doors. or turning them in to physics props.


this is the first floor of the "office?" side of the building. right now the best thing i can think of is putting some decreped offices with some knocked over/broken cubical walls. to the left is the beginning of a bathroom.


this is what will be the bathroom. on the left is where a busted out hole will be.


u can see the bathroom from hear.


other side of the room.


u can see this room in the last pic, look through the glass.


at the center of the building i have a staircase running from the basement to the roof.


go though the doors in the last pic and your on the roof. simple enough. i plan on moving the hole more into the corner. as well as making it bigger. i also thaught of making it look like an ac unit fell through. and yes i will make it brighter.


jump through the hole and your in the level 2 "office?". still havening a hard time thinking of what to do in hear.

And there is a basement that is a one and a half stories tall, but it's not worth posting right now. I'm open to any and all suggestions/opinions, but right now what i need most is to know if my flow is good and if a have to move any major walls. look forward to hearing it. :smile:

Start adding character to the map and try to get some more vertical combat going. Right now it's just a bunch of empty boxes connected together. Which is fine if you plan on doing more. But, because these areas are empty you don't know how they're going to play once you put objects in them.

Start doing that now and try to mold the surroundings to suit the areas.

I have others, but they're aesthetics, I'll wait until you claim you're onto that stage before I give a whole lot there.

Something specific that I'm seeing is in the first screenshot. That type of layout is just aching to be "bashed". It's not a visual thing either, it's just not laid out well. Can you rip that ceiling up? Making another floor (where players will be running by) visible will immediately add a vertical game play element to that area.

If you want to keep players on their toes, make them very vulnerable from almost any point in the map. Right now, that first area looks like it allows you to back into a corner and keep all the entrances in view.

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

Hmm... One tip: Don't build a dozen gigantic, empty rooms thinking they will become more interesting later when adding detail, lighting or purpose.

It won't happen.

Be very strict about every single room and floortile you add and make sure it adds something to gameplay, atmosphere and architecture. If you cannot say that about a corridor or room, delete it. If you do not know why a room is 100 m? big, make it 10 m?... or get rid of it, too. If you don't know exactly what kind of room it will become later (store, office, bathroom) it probably will never fit. Delete it. If you cannot imagine a cool and unique gameplay situation for a room, delete it. If a corridor gets long and boring... delete it, they should be as short as possible.

Basically, think of this while you're drawing a little sketch on paper.

I think the way you're starting this map, posting it here at this early stage, it shows you already understood a lot about map planning, which I truly respect! Keep going! :smile:

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Why snark works.

After reading your posts i realizes that your right. those 2 rooms do suck and no mater what crap i through in their, it will never be interesting. i do have an idea though. I've offishaly just crashed a water tower through my roof. all the way to the basement floor. that should create all the vertical play and visual stimulation i need.

Thanks already Crono and Reaper47. i knew post my stuff hear would be a good idea.

PS: I'll lose the creepy/noobish, polite tone when i've been hear long enough. (and i'll stop spell checking )

You mean start spell checking, right? :razz:

I'm glad to see you're taking input to heart. A lot of "new" mappers come here expecting people to suck their c**k when they show some half-assed-unfinished-ugly-unplayable-piece-of-s**t and get offended when people point out issues with their design, or lack thereof.

Us helping you is a two way road. You'll get to make a great map and we'll get a new map to play. Hopefully it pans out well and everybody wins.

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

I like the watertower a lot. You could make water running out of it, too. :smile:

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Why snark works.

You mean start spell checking, right? :razz:

AHHH, even when I'm trying. :rolleyes:

Oh, come on. You wrote "offishaly".

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

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Why snark works.

At the risk of making myself look retarded, i had to look it up to know y u were laughing.
:dorky:

Just wait, it will get even worse.

I was mainly laughing while thinking of my own word creations in the past. Thank god for Firefox' spell check.

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Why snark works.

Well, I'v done a little more work and hear is what i got.


This is the start to my hole (lol). it won't be just a jag id circle.


Level 1 hole leading to the basement a story and a half below.


The first time i walked in to this room (from the bottom) it felt.......important. I've never had that happen before. i don't think it's overpowering but i could be wrong. It has its odd shape because i was trying to solve a door placement issue (not to say i don't like it). I'm not sure what to make of this.

PS: i have updated the BSP file.

I had a run through the map and the stairway indeed looks very interesting. Could provide some nice vertical gameplay. Just get rid of the concrete blocks beneath the upper parts. They are a waste of the space down there.

What I saw in your map is a lot of out-of-gird brushes. Little gaps between two brushes, odd sizes, mis-aligned textures. Always turn on (and I mean the always kind of always) "snap to grid" and work on at least a 16 Units grid while building your walls. make sure all walls and corridors follow the 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, 512 sizes. A higher grid helps you to align brushes nicely, also most textures are designed to fit exactly 128x128 Units brushes.

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Why snark works.

I didn't like them ether. I'll change the concrete blocks soon.
The only out of grid brush in the map is the hole on the second floor. it resulted from a brush that had been rotated groped to one that hadn't. Right now it's only a visual aid.
What do you mean when u say work on a grid?

Working 'on the grid' means setting the grid to a rough size (64 for example) and setting 'Align to grid' on (it's somewhere in the menu, don't know exactly where from the top of my head). Every brush will then be created and moved in increments of 64 units. While this leads to rougher architecture and usually square levels, it's easier to avoid leaks with it.
Usually, I fill in the details later on using a finer grid setting and I move props while holding the Alt key, so they don't move in grid increments but freely.

Those shots look a bit grey, grim to me bytheway. Some more color and brighter lighting would help I think. :smile:

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Create-ivity - a game development blog

Ahhh, thats what u meant. Ya, I've been doing that form the start. i have my grid set to 1 though. And ya, the lighting is bad right now. i don't know if starting lighting right now would be a good idea. i probably end up redoing it more than once.

I have my grid set to 1 though.

Ahhh... reminds me on the good old days. :smile:

You have to think backwards here, 1 Grid means it doesn't automatically "snap" borders to clean 64 units sizes. Having a grid of 1 can cause one wall to be 74 Units long and another that is 73 Units long. A gap is the result. This happens fast and accidently, in worst cases producing a leak and vvis can't run.

Higher Grid = more exact brushwork

(computer logic, you have to get used to it)

Use a grid of at least 16 for walls, 64 or 128 for floors and ceilings. You'll see all kinds of inaccuracies will disappear.

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Why snark works.

I'll keep that in mind when start my next map. Thanks
I managed to keep my standard by building my map around the central stair case and using spacing blocks when adding new levels. All my walls are 8 or 10 units thick and my floors are 8.
After hearing what u said, i loaded up lockdown and checked the walls and found most the walls were 128 units tall. Also like my map the the top few units of the walls were covered by the floor of the next level. Except were it could be easily avoided. So I'm good. If u decompile my BSP. you'll find I have vary clean construction. Though i doubt anyone cares.

It's not really a technique, it's plain how hammer works. Ultimately, it's for your own good as you'll see that a map becomes more and more unmanageable if you don't stick to powers of 2.

I bet you'll have a moment of enlightenment soon :wink:

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Why snark works.

Progress. I think. Don't know if I'll keep any of it.

Looks much better than before. The glass is a bit too dark for the light level, perhaps there's a brighter texture you can use, but it looks nice. The roof doesn't look very well connected to the walls yet, a different style sortof, I think using the same pillar style for the roof works better.

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Create-ivity - a game development blog

Make sure you really, really like that style and if yes, try to hold it through all parts of the level.

I must say, for reaching a more final stage it looks a tad bland and random. Your ordinary HL2 hall. Maybe you should start with a gag, a feature of some kind? Like that crashed watertower! :smile:

You should try and put something a little more memorable into every room. And it's often easier to start with a place you already have a good idea for and then use it as a standard for all other parts of the map. I know this sounds stupid and a bit esoteric but "don't build a hall just to build a hall".

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Why snark works.

Oh, I don't see a problem in creating a hall for a halls sake. I often create several theme test maps before starting a real map. I also do various layout test maps untill I've got something that works, and then I merge the style elements from the theme test maps that I liked into this layout map and work from there.
It's a workflow I adapted after several years though and not everyone works the same of course. :smile:

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Create-ivity - a game development blog

Alright, that's probably true. Experiment with the hallways, it's probably a good way of getting used to the editor and getting a feel for the architecture.

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Why snark works.

I hear you. Ether way it still needs much work.
Originally the roof was suppose to be a key visual point, but now it's only causing problems with the look of realism in the rest of the room. If i can make it work i'd to keep it. when i get to lighting it should provide a nice effect, but if I can't make it work i won't hesitate to drop it and go with a flat roof.

http://www.snarkpit.net/editing.php?page=tutorials&game=HL2&id=176

That's a nice way of getting a light effect from the windows.

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Why snark works.

I dropped the slanted roof and widened the room. Big diffrence. I'll add windows soon.

Hmm, I think I liked the brighter version better. Let's see what happens when you add those windows. I think you should remove those long support beams running along the halls length. Keeping only the short ones running from the sides should give a more uniform 'direction' to it. I think. :smile:

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Create-ivity - a game development blog

Ok, first, let me paint you a picture.
The room is dark, but light enough to see. The air is dusty and you can see beams of light coming through the broken windows and cracked walls. rubble everywhere, It's clear the building has been decaying for a long time. Your not sure what the room was used for, but it looks like some machinery has been there before.
That said. What would u go with?



When i pick which to go with I'll check out deleting the longways support beam like u suggested.

For that scenario, the left screenshots fit best. The right ones look more like an atrium, the left ones are more industrial. I'd change the part where the support beams meet however: the horizontal ones should rest on the vertical ones. :smile:
I also think that without the long beams it looks more empty now, but on the right shots it doesn't look right either (no pun intended).
If you add the longway supports back in, then raise them above the other supports, as if they rest on them. Intersecting them as in the right shots doesn't feel correct.

As for machinery, I'd say, add some rough concrete parts, as if machinery had been there but forcefully removed. Adding tiles to the rest of the floor works well to make the distinction. A few tubes sticking out of the concrete and such... perhaps some raised concrete blocks...

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Create-ivity - a game development blog

The ceiling is very dominant. Unless you think of something really monumental (which probably isn't worth it) I'd suggest hiding the ceiling in darkness by using bright spotlights that only light down. That way it's mysterious, has some weight to it while still staying in the background, visually (where it belongs IMO).

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Why snark works.

Thanks for the input. i like the idea about the forcefully removed machinery.

Better? Yes?
The upper rafters will be dark and i haven't decided on a floor texture. A tile floor would be nice but i don't know if their is a suitable tile texture for this room. I might go with concrete.

(Am i posting updates to often?)

Looks better yes. I'd make the roof less high, and the ceiling darker of course but otherwise, looks fine. Perhaps move that window to the right side, to balance it against the door to the left.

And why would this be too often? As long as we give feedback and you find it usefull, go ahead... :wink:

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Create-ivity - a game development blog

I don't think I'm going to develop this room any more until the rest of the map has caught up.

It's been a while. after my last post i made a check list, which fill an entire page of unlined paper. I've completed just about all of them and made another list thats 3/4 full. eek.


Not to much change. i have added 2 stair cases on both sides to improve connectivity.


big change. how do u like the trussing?


i added a bay elevator and a walk way to the room across. it made a big difference.


my brooken elevator. (still needs work)


I added the toilet dividers. they have free swinging doors. (and i know i need to lower the fixtures)


outsides changed a lot. the corner your looking at will be ware the tower fell from, and i'll make it look so.


I've done a lot of work in the main stair well. I think it looks much better now.

I've updated the .bsp file (probably ten min after i post this), so fell free to take a look if u wish.

That second to last screen is confusing. What exactly is that fence keeping you out of? If you move it forward a bit more, it could be keeping you from getting close enough to those windows to break in.

This definitely has improved, but it looks like there are no cubemaps.

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Also change the texture of the dock. Docks are rarely tile. -Facepunch
As I Lay Dying

I'm havening problems uploading the file to my file share place. i have it done by tomorrow. probably around 1 pm.

That second to last screen is confusing. What exactly is that fence keeping you out of? If you move it forward a bit more, it could be keeping you from getting close enough to those windows to break in.

This definitely has improved, but it looks like there are no cubemaps.

The shot is from on top of the building's roof. originally the fences weren't there and i didn't want people falling to the ground so the building next door was real close. now that the fences are there i should probably move the building back a foot so it looks better. Thanks for pointing it out :smile:
And no, no cubemaps yet. i should probably add those soon.

nice, nice. You're really improving a lot here.

My current complaint is something even the most experienced mappers are struggling with: The grayness. I know to some extend it's due to the grayish standard palette of textures in HL2. But try to do something about it.

Try different skies, different environment lighting. Search the textures for a few more colorful and contrasty textures.

Especially, try not to use gray or white values for lights. Always make them yellowish (warm, inviting) ore blueish (cold, harsh). Cold/warm contrasts through lighting are one of the best methods to get some color contrast in HL2 maps.

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Why snark works.

/me is liking the way some of these screens look. The girders look really coolness.

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The best things in life, aren't things.

Sorry for the delay. My internet was down this morning.
The bsp. has been updated (turns out File Front doesn't like Fire Fox) and I'll be updating the five main map screens now.

Your right, the map is a little gray. Now that u mention it it stands out more. I had always planed on coloring most of the lights. I guess now would be a good time to start. instead of doing it all at the end and recompiling over and over again. Thanks guy, your a big help. :smile:

PS: could someone sagest a good hdr lighting tutorial?

Little by little.

Nice! really nice, comparing that screen to the first ones you posted, talk about making progress.

This one part took 4 hours :crash: ! Before i settle on this design and make the other two holes i like to hear some opinions.

This looks rather cool, although that kind of detail is something better saved for final polish. I wish you hadn't mentioned the 4-hour work time. Now it feels a bit mean to complain about the slightly too symmetrical zig-zag shape of the cracks. :rolleyes: Still looks impressive.

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Why snark works.

Ya, the zig-zag crack was the first think i noticed too. I've already fixed that (kinda). And it only took 4 hours because i screed ti up the first time. Hear is what i looks like now.

Looks like i still have some zig-zag's to fix, but I'll do that later.
Thanks for the reply. The more the better.

PS: As soon as the map is playable i update to the next chapter.

nice to see how this map is taking shape. That collapsed concrete thingie looks awesome.

I'm currently tying up loose ends of my map to start the next chapter. Question is, what do i call the chapter? Alpha, beta? I remember seeing a post or thread in SP explaining it but if you try searching it you get every map in the site. If anyone remembers the thread or wants to ancer my question i would appreciated it.

I doubt there's an exact definition, especially for mapping.

But I'd say that an Alpha is an unfinished map with essential parts missing or bugs that drastically hinder gameplay, more a draft than anything.

A Beta has all the features but probably a few minor bugs or unpolished visuals.

A Final version has everything the mapper could possibly think of and all the bugs fixed. Once you release a Final version there is no going back, and it's a real pain to be forced to release a "post-final" version of a map.

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Why snark works.