[*] I'm sure the movement in Fortress Forever is (will be?) faster than HL2DM (which is like clodding through mud with your shoelaces tied together), but there's a fine line between 'spacious' and 'over-scaled' and I'm afraid this leans more toward the latter. I feel about 2-4 feet tall running through this level, depending on the area.
[*] The yellowish lighting + gray textures on most everything makes the map look and feel monotonous. Throw in some more variation in the lighting, and get a more varied texture palette than the handful of different gray concrete and metal textures. I like the actual form beneath the gray textures, but there's just not enough color variation to excite the player's eyes as it stands. Also as someone else pointed out the speckled gray floor texture is pretty bland, I think a bump/normal map and a little dirtying up of both the texture and the specular alpha map would help it a lot.
[*] The big round recessed light things LOD out way too close, and it makes a very noticeable transition.
<LI>The fan that pushes you to the upper level needs work, when you jump up you hit the ceiling and land on the very edge of the top floor, at best.

Just by looking at the screens, I favor the night theme.

Lights again I'm afraid. I pick the night, because it gave me my desire. The daytime, looks to close to fullbright. I guess if I were told to pick a word that best describes yesterdays conversation I'd pick "Stark" The screens are to stark for my taste.

Again, thats not a bad thing, its my taste, not the end of the world. :wink:

The stronger contrast is interesting, but I too fear the map could drown in darkness. Maybe just keep the night-sky and probably the darker ceilings (and other things in the background outside of gameplay areas).

Anyway instead of talking so much about what probably can't be described in words I did what I should have done all the time and took some screens. First is a screen that I think describes all my concerns about texturing in general:



I know it's a mean perspective, but it also is a very common part to see for the player. If the transition from a concrete to a metal surface was really so clean, the concrete would be less shabby. If the concrete was as dirty, there would be a border, gap or any other, more structured transition. Just compare the border of the red stripe to the white paint with the polygonal border to the metal-surface. It's impossible. You can't cut concrete like this so cleanly into a metal-surface. Probably making the concrete a little cleaner would do the polished metal-style the most justice. Or there could be a thin border-stripe on the top and bottom of the concrete texture...

This is all I was talking about the last few posts, so... nothing more to say about it (at last :wink: ).

While taking screenshots I also found a few texturing (or brushwork) errors. These little things stand out quite a bit because it's quite striking compared to the very clean rest of the map. Here's a little collage:

Some images in this post have been automatically down-sized, click on them to view the full sized versions:

Some images in this post have been automatically down-sized, click on them to view the full sized versions:

Some images in this post have been automatically down-sized, click on them to view the full sized versions:

Here's the nightsky version, i think it looks somewhat better and since leagueplay hasnt got fighting in the midfield i think i can get away with it. let me know what you think.

Junkyard God said:
For example in the 4th screenie of the thread, the red lighting near the walls, could stand out a bit moe if you made the rest of the lights somewhat dimmer (i think).

Ok this gave me serious doubts about my monitor settings? The red lights in the 4th screenshot are placed completely in shadow, there isnt one white/yellow light shining on there and stand out great imo. the only whiteness shining on there is from bounces, and since you see those bounces as making the red not stand out, i asked myself if the lights are really too overdone bright. So i did a fast compile of the ramproom with dimmed lights. i also replaced the few lights i had with light_spots. I do agree that it is more athmospheric, but on my monitor this is simply not acceptable for a FF map. This would only suit HL2SP or maybe HL2DM or other slowpaced mods. comments?

This is a picture that Zombieloffe posted that I agree with as to how I envision lights looking in any map. Its a fair representation anyway. I know its not what you want, but its what I had in mind when I was commenting earlier. Sometimes, pictures speak better examples.

You know me, I'm a lighting fetishist, and first I too thought it's all about the lighting. But I don't think that's it. All the tricks in the "GOOD" picture are there. Maybe there could be more cold/warm contrast and a night setting for the outside could bring some brightness contrasts. Maybe the ceilings could be darker...

But there's actually some very nice lighting going on like in this pic or here.

But the texturing is very bright also, so it might be responsible for the brightness.

One more idea: How about trying to make the map more clean, taking a bit of bumpmap contrast from the concrete textures and making the red stripe paint cleaner? I actually always liked the "cleaness" of this style and maybe it gets lost a bit behind the very classic looking concrete. You could still keep the concrete/high tech metal contrast. I think right now the concrete dominates a bit, while probably it should be the clean plates that should dominate.

Yea, just random thoughts. Again, I like this a lot. It's just about the finer details and contrast.

I think this is a nicely styled map, but i think you're red lights in the map don't stick out enough.

The whole map is quite blandly lit as far as i can tell from the screenies.

But thinking of old tfc maps they were also always 'well lit' so to speak to make the gameplay maybe a tad better.

conclusion of this sketchy comment: the map looks good but i think you could improve it by tweaking the lighting a bit.

For example in the 4th screenie of the thread, the red lighting near
the walls, could stand out a bit moe if you made the rest of the lights
somewhat dimmer (i think).

Such lighting themes in my opinion ususaly make maps more interesting
to the eye and maybe some what more exiting if you're walking around in
such places, instead of having most of the level have the same well lit
clean feeling to it.

This would also maybe solve some other comments concerning the map looking cleaner than the IC unit in a hospital :smile:

Anyways, think it looks quite interesting ,and since i'm still looking
forward to playing FF i think this map would make a nice addition to
it. keep it up! :smile:

Orpheus said:
This is a picture that Zombieloffe posted that I agree with as to how I envision lights looking in any map. Its a fair representation anyway. I know its not what you want, but its what I had in mind when I was commenting earlier. Sometimes, pictures speak better examples.

well there's no question that in most cases it's better with lightspots than with lights. the 2 lightspot above one another, one small one facing the source and a bigger one facing the floor is a well-known trick. The thing is, i use it in most places if you look closely, see the 3rd, 4th and 5th screenshot.

This is a picture that Zombieloffe posted that I agree with as to how I envision lights looking in any map. Its a fair representation anyway. I know its not what you want, but its what I had in mind when I was commenting earlier. Sometimes, pictures speak better examples.

Captain P said:
I think those greyish flat parts are a nice, easy-on-the-eye contrast to the heavily filled, complex ceilings. It's sort of saying: "Yes, this map has a unique style, and it looks pretty, but here's the route to take, don't get distracted."

I do think Orph makes a good point though, about the lighting and generally, color contrast. It's generally very bright, with too little contrast to break it up. Perhaps that's why I like the brow-greyish floor parts so much, because at least those are a bit darker so they stand out somewhat.
I like the outside, with it's high tower rising up in the night, lit by a few spotlights, but again, I think more contrast could greatly improve the feeling. A darker skybox, a darker top of the tower, with bright spotlights shining up to it... sppoky. :smile:

Yep a nightsky is an option. i'll do a night compile and a post a screen here.

Also bear in mind that it's an FF map so i feel the areas where the player can come should be bright to not hinder the (fast) gameplay. That's why i have most of my shadows on the walls or ceilings.

Dark_Kilauea said:
<DIV class=quotetext>It looks nice to me, except that it looks... too clean. It looks cleaner than a hospital. Put some trash in there, or have some broken equipment or wires. I think a little trash and wear and tear would do wonders for this map.</DIV>

I don't really agree that it looks to clean. The panels have a "dirty" spec map and the concrete has a "dirty" normalmap. btw, it's still an FF map.. so i won't add litter :razz:

I do agree that i could add cracks decals to the concrete in some places.

It looks nice to me, except that it looks... too clean. It looks cleaner than a hospital. Put some trash in there, or have some broken equipment or wires. I think a little trash and wear and tear would do wonders for this map.