My trouble with the Law.

Well, I am not here to impress anyone but.

places hand on heart and holds other up in traditional boyscout fashion

"I swear I have never made a cent off of anything I have ever backed up or received via the net."

I personally do not care if that makes any difference at all in anyones viewpoint about this... diversion. But, I had, or needed to make that point clear. I have my scruples. As warped as they may be, they are not available for anyones scrutiny, or judgment.

/me bows deeply.

---

The best things in life, aren't things.

I h8 u.

JK. My views on Piracy are this: If you bought it, you own it and you can do what you want with it. If you did not buy it, you do NOT own it unless it was a gift. And NOT a gift from the KaZaA fairy!

---

I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

dammit, i hat text sometimes......ya just cant convey yer meanings...just to be absolutely clear here. i was not accusing, insinuating, or otherwise trying to insult or provoke , or even chew yer ass man, or smite your intelligence. im sure you know better than that.

Doc B...

I luv u.

lol

---

I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

This is just a question, but it's still something I never understood ... why are people, in general, so POed at the idea of copying something (whether you own it or not) ... yet ... no one is mad a second hand shops who, legally, make money off of the same products, which can potentially be recycled through their shop many times. This is also dis-regarding distribution, because, it seems people have a problem with the actual act of copying and no distribution, or at least, it seems people confuse the two ...

It's just something I never understood, especially in the view of a production studio or record label ... go after the people with no money? Is that their plan?

---

Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

NOTE: This reply isn't directed at anyone specific. Its meant AND expected to be received in a general way.

looks around entire crowd

My only problem that I have ever had with the copy rights debate are those people who insinuate that you are committing a heinous act but fail on some level to note that they themselves have done it. I personally do NOT see any distinction between borrowing one song and borrowing a whole hard drive full. If you have ever... EVER listened to one MP3, you are using copy righted material.

If you have ever, even once, borrowed your best friends game, EVEN IF HE NO LONGER WANTS IT, then you are borrowing his game. The nature of the games distributing modem is unimportant. It could be on the original disk, it could be copied. The result is the same. You have a copy of a game that you never purchased from the creator.

Now, as I said.. I really do not care if you are pro, or con. I detest those who judge people who happen to be more guilty that they are as if somehow that makes them less guilty.

Reminds me of a confrontation that I had at work once with a co-worker. This girl/woman, a pretty young thing who was for the most part a very nice person. She had one flaw... She was shagging the boss. Now sex in general isn't a bad thing, but doing it between married folk is, if those parties just so happen to not be married to each OTHER.

Anyway, Ms. boss f**k and I were talking about religion and when she heard that I was agnostic she jumped, fairly leaped away from me and told me in a horror that "GOD WAS GOING TO STRIKE ME DEAD!!!"

I laughed so hard I was in tears. She was in shock for a bit until I said "And this from a woman who sleeps with her boss?"

The room got very quiet. You see, she was positive that she was being discrete and at the very least that " THATS REALLY NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS AND I'LL THANK YOU TO MIND YOU OWN"

Silly me. I pointed out her hypocrisy and I was the one wrong. :rolleyes:

In the end people. Discuss the topic till doomsday, but don't you ever accuse me of wrong doing, unless you are 100% innocent on all counts!

---

The best things in life, aren't things.

when did the topic move from legal/illegal, to right/wrong?

---

i eat paint

fishy said:
when did the topic move from legal/illegal, to right/wrong?

You know, I actually had to read this many, many times. My eyes were not sending the proper signals because it kept coming out... badly.

Anyway. There seems to be no answer that will satisfy you Fishman. You have asked a similar question throughout your stay here and each time, the answer didn't seem to satisfy your intention.

Although, I do not agree that everything legal=good. nor do I agree that everything illegal=bad. I do believe that everything is either right or wrong and to assume that when someone accuses you of an illegal act is not the same as saying you have done wrong is just... Strange.

You may not view illigal=wrong but I do. and if someone accuses me of commiting an illegal act, you are also accusing me of commiting a wrong.

The only distinction is, how we each view right and wrong.

Sadly, those in power, seldom view right and wrong in anything approaching "Normalcy" :rolleyes:
To answer your statement. It changed when I said it did. Thats the only answer I can give that doesn't accuse anyone unjustly.

---

The best things in life, aren't things.

s**t fish.....they always derail, or at least take detours....

Doc B....

in short, if you paid for it once, cool. that means i have my one tenth of a percent from my work, and i can feed the bill collectors....

Dr Brasso said:
in short, if you paid for it once, cool. that means i have my one tenth of a percent from my work, and i can feed the bill collectors....

I have this irresistible urge to steal something of yours Doc all of a sudden. :wink:

I have been seriously thinking of buying an I-Pod. The reason is simple. Owning an I-Pod makes you one of the crowd that can use borrowed content without committing anything illegal.

It would be nice to listen to my audio books without this grey cloud of shame hovering over me.

BTW, I just BOUGHT a new audio book. Its a Heinlein classic "Have Spacesuit Will Travel"

Taboo taboo taboo taboo*taboo* taboo taboo taboo taboo taboo taboo taboo, taboo taboo taboo taboo.

giggles

I always wanted to post a whole sentence speaking tabooish.

---

The best things in life, aren't things.

once its in the "public domain", "steal" the whole s**t and shebang, after that, i have no real problem........that means ive gotten all i expected to out of that one sold cd, and the rest of the points are actually mute....

and you know you dont have to steal from me, i'd gladly copy and give to my friends....see any hypocrisy? hmm....i dont, since i put the work into it.....capice?

Doc... :dodgy:

Orpheus said:
I do not agree that everything legal=good.

nor do I agree that everything illegal=bad.
You may not view illigal=wrong but I do.

they used that in space1999 to make the robots head explode....

---

i eat paint

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Dr Brasso</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>once its in the "public domain", </DIV></DIV>

Herein lies the crux of the matter methinks.

At what point does any product become "OPEN?"

I mean, does a song ever become available for free distribution? Does a game? Does anything of the aforementioned categories ever not be in the state of "Copy righted material?"

You see, thats my main issue. People who make these things think they own them for life. and... Thats just wrong. A lot of people, put millions into the development of my automobile, yet, I can do anything I wish with it. A lot of people put millions into my television millions into my washer. Hell millions went into my food as far as production processes and developing hybrid crops yet, they have no copy rights that are so far reaching that they actually extend INTO MY HOUSE!

What makes music and software so freaking special that they can redefine the rules to suit them?

It anyone can explain this one concept to me and not sound biased, I'd surely be appreciative.

[edit for simultaneous posting] Fish, I just peed more volume than in my entire life. That was.. well needed.

---

The best things in life, aren't things.

ahem

abandonware: http://www.the-underdogs.org/

---

Also change the texture of the dock. Docks are rarely tile. -Facepunch
As I Lay Dying

ok.... i make an audio cd....i work on it and polish it for a year....i think its good, irregaurdeless of your personal" musical" critique.....it is still in MY domian....i sell that one copy to you, it is now in "the public domain, in at least one instance....as far as im concerned......as i said, imho, you bought the rights to do with it as you please.....coasters, gifts, frisbees, whatever.....i have my 1/10th of one percent.....thats about what?.....10 cents per copy? i'd have to sell a million copies just to break even (these are general numbers, and not entirely accurate, but not far off either) .....now.....you start selling pirated copies, i cant even pay my debt for the making of the cd off....and that pisses me off....sure, the damn songs are getting mucho airplay, running up the charts, and im a broke ass mutha because, you are taking my money....money that i worked damn hard to make....and thats all i ask.....i dont want residuals from you, i dont want props, and i sure as hell dont want a fruit basket for my trouble....granted, a fruit basket may feed the ole girl for a day, but im still gonna talk about ya.... :wink:

once its in the public domain, i should have theoretically made my money off you. theoretically.....and if i have, then i have nothing else to say about "that one copy i sold to you"....

respect jon.....thats the biggie for me....if you want my cd, and you dont respect me and my work (it aint all play man)enough to pay for it, then we have a problem.....

hope i helped.....yer up jon... :heee:

Doc B..... :dodgy:

Sirrah, I beg to differ. Even if I have a million mp3s, I can still accuse another MP3-listener of wrong-doing and still be right. Right and wrong are not relative. Just becauyse the judge who sentences a rapist to prison is crooked, it does not mean that his verdicts are invalid. It just means that he is not blameless himself.

There is a difference between Judging and Stating facts, and everyone would do well to get a lesson about it. Judging is not just telling someone they are wrong, it is condemning them for it. Therefore, anyone can tell anyone else they are wrong, even if such a statement is taken as opinion, and still not be judging the other. Too many people are looking for a reason to call everyone else "judgemental" so that they will have an excuse to disregard the stuff that disagrees with thier lifestyle.

---

I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

Nickel, you can beg and/or differ all day through, I don't really care. All that you just said is, IMO perfectly true, but.. It has nothing to do with what I posted. I have no trouble with people accusing me of things. I do have issues with people who omit their own wrong doings in doing so.

Now, this is a general comment but it stems from a discussion that I had with a certain Snarkpit member years ago who claimed to be innocent because he didn't "Make it a habit of obtaining MP3's" While other people did it frequently.

I personally see no distinction what so ever. If you did it once, and I did it 100's of times, then we are both equally as guilty of obtaining copied material.

Now, if you still see your comment as the same thing, I cannot explain it any clearer.

and Doc, I understood you the first time. Somehow though, I was infuriating your point without meaning to. If it helps, I'll buy your cd and burn it in effigy. As long as you get your piece of the pie, I am happy.

---

The best things in life, aren't things.

Orpheus said:
it 100's of times, then we are both equally as guilty of obtaining copied material.

Agreed. Abolutrely true, because as I just said, there are not degrees of right and wrong. only Right and Wrong.

---

I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

sighs and counts to ten

Then why are you differing with moi?

Nevermind, don't answer that its not important. You can do anything you wish and I am not in any position to argue.

---

The best things in life, aren't things.

I don't disagree with EVERYTHING u said. Just that it doesnt change MY wrongdoing just because the person accusing me is doing something wrong too. THat's all.

---

I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

I still see a difference between someone downloading 1 song versus
someone downloading 1,000. They both did something illegal, but
the person who downloaded 1,000 songs did something worse.

I don't see how you can argue that there's no distinction. If we
were talking about murders we would distinguish. If one criminal
killed 1 person and another killed 1,000... the former would surely get
a lesser punishment.

well, did they commit 1000 crimes or just one crime 1000 times? you have to decide.

---

I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

I don't see how that distinction matters.

1,000 counts of illegal activity is how I see it, versus just 1 count
of illegal activity. If you want to call that 1,000 crimes or one
crime 1,000 times its still 1,000 counts of illegal activity.

would you be just as pissed if someone conned you out of $1, as you would if they conned you out of $1000? :smile:

---

i eat paint

I still see a difference between someone downloading 1 song versus
someone downloading 1,000. They both did something illegal, but
the person who downloaded 1,000 songs did something worse.

I don't see how you can argue that there's no distinction. If we
were talking about murders we would distinguish. If one criminal
killed 1 person and another killed 1,000... the former would surely get
a lesser punishment.

I agree with this entirely. I don't think there are just the states of right and wrong, or good and evil - its all shades of grey.

I'm far from the most law abiding citizen, I own a few less-than-kosher games or CDs, and no, I'm not proud of it. I acknowledge that I'm doing people wrong, and feel guilty all the while. That said, I don't class myself as doing as great a wrong as those who never buy legal copies, or even worse, those who make the copies and sell them on for profit. It may well have been me you were referencing in your post Orph, but back then (as it would now), it did piss me off when you pretty much made me out to be just as bad as those who do the same thing in ridiculously greater numbers.

I've spent ?120 on games in the last month alone - anybody who paints me with the same brush as a pirate who potentially costs the industry thousands of pounds in the same period isn't a person I value the opinion of.

---

[img]http://card.mygamercard.net/sig/Default/reno84.png[/img]
Designer @ Haiku Interactive | ReNo-vation.net

whistles tunelessly

uhh, no.. I mentioned no names at all Duncan. I would like to point out however, that you being pissed amounted to naught since it was I whom you placed in the category of "thief" back then.

If you thought you got mad, you don't wanna know how pissed I was at you.

Still, we are here now and, I for one do not hold anyone accountable for a slip of the tongue. :smile:

For the record. I spend hundreds on games each year and not a single one of you hesitates calling me pirate.

---

The best things in life, aren't things.

i've pondered the morality of buying stolen goods from shoplifters. on the face of it, it's bad. but if you consider that on average, stores inflate their prices buy more than 10% to cover the cost of shoplifting, would it be justifiable for me to accept stolen goods, as long as i don't buy in excess of 10% of what i've already paid for in the shops? (my shop purchases will have already paid the shopkeeper for the stolen goods)

---

i eat paint

Orph -- I'm not calling you a pirate, I was merely arguing a
theoretical point. When you said "If you did it once, and I did
it 100's of times, then we are both equally as guilty" I was prompted
to voice my opinion.

Honestly -- I don't know what you download or do with your free time, and that's not what I was debating :smile:

fishy said:
i've pondered the morality of buying stolen goods from
shoplifters. on the face of it, it's bad. but if you consider that on
average, stores inflate their prices buy more than 10% to cover the
cost of shoplifting, would it be justifiable for me to accept stolen
goods, as long as i don't buy in excess of 10% of what i've already
paid for in the shops? (my shop purchases will have already paid the
shopkeeper for the stolen goods)

I don't think it would be justifiable. When it comes down to it
buying stolen goods is illegal whereas raising prices to cover
shoplifting is perfectly within their legal rights as businesses.

Interesting point there Fishy :smile:

In the games industry there is a bit of an uproar at the moment at the amount of second hand games that are doing the rounds, specifically over the quick appearance of second hand Xbox 360 games in highstreet shops. I must admit to buying a fair share of second hand games (though predominantly ones I can't get me hands on through other means) and I can see why developers and publishers are pissed given that none of the money involved in these transactions is going back to the people who actually made (or published) the games. It is those people who I wish to support and pay for the game (well, the developers ideally, but their cut is far from the bulk of it!), not the previous owner nor the store I'm paying directly, but very often it is the only means of picking up an older (or unsuccessful) game.

---

[img]http://card.mygamercard.net/sig/Default/reno84.png[/img]
Designer @ Haiku Interactive | ReNo-vation.net

so if i buy an xbox game, think it's crap, and sell it on, i'm somehow robbing the developers of something? i'd be more inclined to think that i was the one that had been robbed, if it was that bad that i wanted to sell it again. even if it's good, but i get tired of playing it, and subsequently sell it, i still can't see how i'm depriving anyone of anything.

---

i eat paint

I don't understand how devleopers get angry if its an obscure title
that they no longer even ship out... but for the newer titles I see how
its digging into their profits.

I don't. Its as archaic as "Personal property taxes" I have to pay each year.

Once the item is sold once, all monies that can ever be expected were incurred at that point. You cannot ever expect that a game that is sold multiple times to be part of the payment process of the original design team.

Now, I might be persuaded to acknowledge some money loss due to someone making multiple copies of a game and selling those. If someone is buying them, they should go to the designers. Any single/original title once sold is 100% out of the design teams purview. PERIOD.

---

The best things in life, aren't things.

I don't imagine they do get annoyed if it's a title that is no longer published or something, it's more due to the brand spanking new games being available at cheaper prices second hand, bringing in just as much money to the retailers without any going to the publishers/developers.

I don't think there is anything wrong with selling on a game - I've traded in plenty of my own in the past - but I can appreciate why it pisses off developers and publishers, who have slaved away for years on a game and then not to receive a penny for a purchase because the person decided to buy a second hand copy.

---

[img]http://card.mygamercard.net/sig/Default/reno84.png[/img]
Designer @ Haiku Interactive | ReNo-vation.net

I don't mean to disagree with you on everything today Orpheus :smile: but
the logic you used when talking about making multilple copies and
selling those also applies to a person who is simply selling a used
game. Say a game comes out today. I buy it and don't like it and decide
to sell it to someone tomorrow. The person buying it from me
would otherwise have bought it at a store, and so the game company
loses money. I come out ahead and the company comes out behind...
which woudn't seem like such a bad thing except in the long run a game
company needs money to continue to produce good products.

wow.....i never thought this thread would derail so.....nicely :heee:

*posted by Orpheus

and Doc, I understood you the first time. Somehow though, I was infuriating your point without meaning to. If it helps, I'll buy your cd and burn it in effigy. As long as you get your piece of the pie, I am happy.

i knew ya did sir, i just wanted there to be no doubt....but the burning the cd thing well, thats another whole issue...

personaly, after i get my unit slice, i have no more to say about it.....that was part of my point....resell it as used....well hell, it is used....you dont like the cd and wanna sell it to yer bro, go for it....all good. s**t, some of the best records i own are from recycled shops....its a great cottage industry. i just have a problem with the honorability end of it when people start duplicating for profit man....my profit.

*posted by Orpheus

I spend hundreds on games each year and not a single one of you hesitates calling me pirate.

that sir is simply...bulls**t. you know damn well ive never called you anything but an asshole, and even then it was in jest.....

<DIV class=quotetitle>? posted by Addicted to Morphine</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>
<DIV style="BORDER-RIGHT: red 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: red 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: red 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: red 1px solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #151515">I don't understand how devleopers get angry if its an obscure title that they no longer even ship out... but for the newer titles I see how its digging into their profits.
</DIV></DIV>
agreed atm.....cottage industry....resale is one thing....reproduction for profit is another

and yer not depriving anyone of anything fishbutt.....thats another part of my point.

Doc B... :dodgy:

EDIT>>>how ya like the new avatar eh?....seemed somehow.....fitting... :wink:

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Addicted to Morphine</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>I don't mean to disagree with you on everything today Orpheus :smile: but the logic you used when talking about making multiple copies and selling those also applies to a person who is simply selling a used game. Say a game comes out today. I buy it and don't like it and decide to sell it to someone tomorrow. The person buying it from me would otherwise have bought it at a store, and so the game company loses money. I come out ahead and the company comes out behind... which wouldn't seem like such a bad thing except in the long run a game company needs money to continue to produce good products.
</DIV></DIV>

Thats pure crap bud. The one title you bought had its money sent to the people who made it. Why in the world would you expect them to receive yet another bit of cash simply because the next person bought your disk? You are no longer using it, and most likely never ever will again so there are not TWO owners, only one. the new person.

So lets carry your warped sense of value to the next logical step.

Lets pass a law that clearly states "Once you've bought it, you can never depart from it on penalty of.. Whatever you feel is a just penalty"

So the people selling the game can sell many more titles?

Now I realize that this whole conversation is losing most of its intelligence because text is making me look stupid/assholeish to you, and vice versa.

Everything you have typed today sounds so absurd that I cannot imagine how an intelligent being could say it. The only thing I can say is, text is making you sound dumb.

and

I am nearly positive that on some level you are thinking the exact same thing about me.

ain't life a bitch...

Dr Brasso said:
EDIT>>>how ya like the new avatar eh?....seemed somehow.....fitting... :wink:

Actually, when I think of Doc Brasso, I see a Mel Gibson in Mutiny on the bounty type. Not some has been sailor wannabe.
You are much more respected than you seem to wanna let on bud.

---

The best things in life, aren't things.

I don't think we should make it illegal to sell your stuff, but at the
same time you have to admit selling stuff second-hand cuts into the
profits of the game companies.

Sure, some people will never buy a new title because of the cost.
The game company therefore doesn't lose any money when these people buy
a second-hand game since they would never have bought a new title in
the first place.

But there are people (the majority I would say) who would have paid the
company full price for the product if there were no second hand copies
available. By reselling your game to these particular people, the
company doesn't make any money off them. 1 copy is sold instead
of 2. It's pretty simple.

And honestly, I don't think I'm coming across as an asshole . And
if you think I'm dumb, that's your opinion which you're entitled to,
but I'd be willing to bet many people think the same way I do about this, or at least would be willing to admit I have a point.

? posted by Addicted to Morphine

I don't think we should make it illegal to sell your stuff, but at the same time you have to admit selling stuff second-hand cuts into the profits of the game companies.


well, lets see.....when they set up their initial prospectus for the endeavour, they take a set of numbers to use as targets, they have to to get the backing, and all with some assurances of one kind of another....in my case, we had to pay off the debt before any real paychecks were signed.....

now, i must qualify this at this point by saying, we did not pay off our debt solely by cd sales.....s**t no....it sucked, it tanked, and we ended up on the road to help expedite contract resolution.....i digress..

.....and then the real profit starts to roll in....its all clear, and comes in big chunks....and as quick as it comes in, it goes away.....thats the way it works for most "real" musicians, and why basicly any real road musician youve ever known is a tight fisted sob, with an attitude as far as money goes...guaranteed... :wink: the window of opportunity closes in most cases as quickly as it opens.....

bologna and "hand" sandwiches i heard them called once...lol it aint bulls**t...

point is atm, they set targets, and ones that also include their minimum and maximum profits, and anything after that is pure and simple greed....

anyay, i hope that sheds a bit of light....

Doc... :dodgy:

I hear what you're saying Doc. I wasn't trying to focus on
whether its right or wrong for game companies to want more money than
they're getting... I just wanted to make a point that in many cases
(but not all) when someone buys a used game the game company sells one
less game. I'm talking specifically about new game videogame
titles, which is what ReNo brought up.

Oh and popeye is great and I like the new avatar.

i bought a table. it's a very nice, hand crafted, table, on which the maker has no-doubt spent many hours of careful work. if i ever decide to sell the table, should i contact the maker and offer him all, or just some, of the money?

---

i eat paint

No. I think in that situation offering money to the original craftsman would be ridiculous.

Why is it videogame companies get angry when their products are resold, but table craftsment don't?

you sound like bill gates fishman...

*posted by fishman

<DIV style="BORDER-RIGHT: red 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: red 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: red 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: red 1px solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #151515">i bought a table. it's a very nice, hand crafted, table, on which the maker has no-doubt spent many hours of careful work. if i ever decide to sell the table, should i contact the maker and offer him all, or just some, of the money?</DIV>
no you shouldnt....thats resale

if its a unique table design, and you start mass producing exact replicas of that table, and heres the kicker, if i knew you were going to mass produce them, then its no ones fault but mine if i didnt get the cash out of it as a good businessman should.

if you however, build them without my knowledge or consent, then there is a problem....

thats reproduction....business "birds and bees", 101

Doc... :dodgy:

Just once I would like to come out of one of our debates with the butter side up on my bread.

If I have ever, or never said it before please allow me to rectify the oversight.

Thank you, everyone for being as tolerant as you are for one old has been mapper.

If it weren't for Snarkpit, I'd be all out of websites.

notices groan from back row

Oh well. Can't have everything. shrugs

---

The best things in life, aren't things.

It's certainly an interesting point about why games companies see it as unfair that second hand sales hinder their profits, but most furniture or other tangible goods manufacturers wouldn't. I don't really have an answer either. Maybe it's something to do with the fact that it isn't really the item itself you are paying for (which it is in the case of furniture) but the experience that the developers produced. In the case of a table, or a car, it's the physical object that holds the worth. Once that physical object is completed and put out the door, it is its own single entity that holds its own worth, and all of it rightfully belongs to the buyer. In the case of a game or movie or music, it is the non-tangible content held inside the object that holds the worth, and can we really say that we own the textures, character models, game code, graphics engine, sound effects, etc...? Quite what difference that makes, I'm not sure, but maybe it is a worthwhile differentiation to make.

As for the morality of buying second hand games or not, I try to buy first hand out of principle but can appreciate that most people wouldn't give a s**t. I like to see my money, even just the small part cut of it that they receive, going to the original developers, whom I feel deserve it more than anybody else.

---

[img]http://card.mygamercard.net/sig/Default/reno84.png[/img]
Designer @ Haiku Interactive | ReNo-vation.net

I get it.

When you give away a game, you won't go out and buy another of that game.

When you give away a table, you will go out and buy another table to replace that one you gave away.

IRT Filesharing

I'm kind of greedy, I don't pay for my music, and it's because I cannot
afford my vast music collection(nearing 10Gb). Now, before you
start flaming me for being t3h [r1m1n@l!1!1!11!1, here's my explanation
to why it's not so bad.

1) Without filesharing, I wouldn't have your product, so it's not like I'm cheating you out of money.

2) Without the cheapness of filesharing, people would experiment less
with music, thanks to free music, I now like bands I would never have
enen heard of without it.(who here has ever heard of "Pet Shop
Boys"? I have...now)

3) If I like the song enough, I buy the CD either for myself or for someone else as a gift.

4) Now that I like bands like I mentioned in (2), I am very very
willing to go to various concerts when/if I have the money, and they're
local.(Now if Curt Kolbain, Jimmy Hendrix, and Jerry Garcia could rise
from their graves and put on the show of the century, I would pay for
that twice!)

Besides, the Grateful Dead were encouraged people recording their songs at their concerts.

On another topic of filesharing, I also downloaded a helluva lot of
Mystery Science Theatre 3000, now I love the show, and have paid for
DVDs.(Those things are expensive too!)

That's all I'm going to say for now.

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Also change the texture of the dock. Docks are rarely tile. -Facepunch
As I Lay Dying

You won't go and buy another copy of that game no, but then you are unlikely to go and buy another instance of the same table either, are you? Also, you may well buy a different game to replace the sold on game, just as you would buy a replacement table. I don't really agree with your point.

I hope your comment about the Pet Shop Boys was meant to be sarcastic :rolleyes:

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[img]http://card.mygamercard.net/sig/Default/reno84.png[/img]
Designer @ Haiku Interactive | ReNo-vation.net

The funny thing is, I agree with everything the copy right laws are supposed to protect up to the point of "lost revenue"

I just cannot seem to wrap my mind around that. Yeah, I know what it means, but its like God. I do not believe it exists except in peoples belief system.

I imagine that my limited knowledge of computers is costing me money every day because I could be working for people who pay more because I knew computers. Sadly, I am not working for them and I have only a rudimentary knowledge of the machines. Should I cry about lost revenue?

I am not asking for another definition of the idea. Its been hashed to death. I just felt like rambling and the idea of losing something you never knew you had or never DID have is just ludicrous.

Its past my bed time. I have to be at the Vet at daybreak AM. My 3 year old Stallion is about to be rudely awakened to the realities of "Guilding" :eek:

Nite-nite fellas.

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The best things in life, aren't things.

Here's the whole thing. People who pirate the songs are NOT GONNA BUY THE CD! They would just steal it from the store! If they're not gonna buy it anyway, how is that LOSING money? You can't LOSE money you never had.

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I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

It's odd, because every industry looks at it differently.

Let me ask this question: you know those time trial demos you get of programs ... would you consider it "illegal" or "wrong" to simply remove the time restriction?

There are also some things in software like "pay X amount to get this package option!" and if you buy it they give you a code which unlocks that package ... meaning you already had it.

Is that any different? Same? I'm wondering because these distinctions based on what the product actually is is annoying as hell.

I agree, Nickel, there's no guarantee that the people obtaining your product would have bought your product otherwise ... perhaps it sucks. Owning it for fun is one thing, but, paying for it would have never happened in any situation. (Just a point of view, not a statement of my personal view.)

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

I dunno, Crono. I think that anything the createor asks you to pay for, you SHOULD pay for it if you want it. If they're being ridiculous, they will go out of business or people will pay for thier product and grumble about it. Like Gasoline.

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I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com