video card sugestion

With my b-day only 1 month away, my parents asked if I had a wish list. Of course, they know I'm really into my computer so they asked what I wanted there. They also know that I keep complaining about my current video card.

So doing some looking around. I narrowed down my choises to 2 cards. One from nVidia and the other from ATi. Of course, I know now is the worst time to buy, since when the new cards come out, the prices will have droped significantly. But the new cards are due beginning of June, my b-day being end of June. And I told them the price issue with the new generations cards around the corner so they said that they wont buy until I give 'em the thumbs up.

I compared 3 local retailers which I have purchased previously from. Anyways, heres the selection:





The main differences... not counting price are that the nVidia card is 256mb whereas the ATi is 128mb. But the ATi has higher clocks than the nVidia, core by 75Mhz and RAM by 100Mhz.

What I would like to know, is out of the 2, which would you pic, and why. And please, no nVidia is better than ATi or vice versa. Right now I myself am impartial. Which card do you think has better OC potential or problems etc.

Or, would it be better to get maybe a 5590 or a 9800. I'm going from a GF4 MX series on PCI to something in the mid range with the 5570 or the 9600 but would it be better to go even higher?

Thanks guys :smile:

Save up and get a Radeon x800 XT. :wink:

256MB over 128MB is useless. Go with the 9600XT. If you're wanting a bit more you can get a 9800 Pro which is a fairly large step above for about $330-350. The Radeon cards are much better for image quality, they run games with AF and AA waay better than Nvidia cards, which equates to a smoother looking game.

If you insist on getting one of these, wait a few months. I guarantee the prices will drop drastically once the x800 starts taking over the market.

Is that the new ATi thats coming out to rival the Nvidia 6800? I heard it was quite far behind the Nvidia in power / features.

Is that the new ATi thats coming out to rival the Nvidia 6800? I heard it was quite far behind the Nvidia in power / features.

On the contrary, I heard the exact opposite from a number of sites. :smile: While the stats might not be as impressive (I can't remember myself), I do remember that it pretty much out-powered nVidia's new stuff every time.

Go for the AtI ... or wait a couple of months, and buy a radeon 9800XT ...

So is there a difference between 256mb and 128mb ram on the card? I'd also consider a FX5900 or a 9800 but they are double the money. I know prices will drop with the release of the 6800 and the 10800 but the difference is still there.

I guess the consideration would also include can the 2 cards I showed above play upcomming games like HL2, Doom3, FarCry, Halo 2, etc.

Oh yea and from the 100plus review specs pages I've read the X800 is better than the 6800 in most categories, the rest, are mostly tied between the 2 cards 'cept for a few categories where the 6800 takes the cake.

Kage_Prototype said:
Save up and get a Radeon x800 XT. :wink:

I agree! But if you can't afford a x800, defianlty go for the radeon, there graphics cards come out on top all the time,[ this might be due to the higher memory float points].

Well I just read an article comparing the two, and while the ATi top model gets better FPS with AA and AF on, both are still extremely high and surely whether you are getting 160 or 120 fps is of little consequence? NVidia's new cards apparently have features that the ATi card does not. I know very little about the tech side of graphics hardware, but my flatmate assures me Nvidia's card is most likely the one to get.

Then again, maybe he is just an NVidia fanboy :biggrin:

Most reviews I saw did put the new X800 slightly ahead of the FX6800, but it depends what you want to play... nivida is supposed to be better in openGL performance, and that's what Doom 3 will be using. Also, only the two top end cards from each line have been seen, and most people don't pay ?300-?400 ($400-$500) for a graphics card. The real competition is in the mid range cards, that's what I'm waiting for - and the performance of the top end models does not have to reflect on the perfromance of the midrange ones :smile: If it was two identically performing cards at the same price, I would go with nvidia every time.

Back to Wild's question, if you must have one of those two, the 9600XT is the faster, but if I were you, I would get neither. The 9800pro has all but a few percent of the performance of the 9800XT, and is much cheaper. It will easily outpace the two you suggest, and in the UK at least, it is only 20-25% more expensive. Both of them should run HL2, but Gabe specifcally said that the 9800s (that doesn't include some 'SE' crap) run HL2 very nicely. Also, Asus is an expensive brand. If you don't care about overclocking or bundled software, get a different make.

Asus can suck donkey nuts. :biggrin:

However, Jeff is absolutly correct (bet you never thought I'd say that, huh)

And, WC, there's a big performance difference between having 128 and 256 megs of ram on the card, it works just like on your motherboard (or close enough for my point :wink: )... but for video.

WC-
If your buying from a store then STOP, go to Ebay and at least look there for the cards, some people get the whole cards for free from their company in the unopened box, and they sell it for cheaper, This is where I got my 9800 pro for 250$ (shipping included) :biggrin: .
And like Gorbachev said:

Gorbachev said:
256MB over 128MB is useless.

so dont look at how much MB there is. But if your preparing for HL2 you want something that runs all the latest video programs to their max (SmartShader 2.1, etc.)

oiw... lol some say 256mb is important some say otherwise... lol. DEBATE!!! :biggrin: nope. I'll have a look see on ebay for cards. Cause yea, the 9600 and the FX5700 are about the highest price range I could go, the stores sell the 9800 for about 500 to 600$. Thats looking at either ASUS or MSI.

As far as card features go, well, it depends, I could care less for a TV out or bundled DVD player lol. But I do want some overclocking headroom.

But I've seen a SAPHIRE 9800 (pro I think) for 300$ but I dont know if thats just junk or quality.

About a week ago a hardware store near my house had an ASUS 9800Pro for $150 (US). (the store sells OEM stuff mostly).

oiw... lol some say 256mb is important some say otherwise... lol. DEBATE!!!:D nope. I'll have a look see on ebay for cards. Cause yea, the 9600 and the FX5700 are about the highest price range I could go, the stores sell the 9800 for about 500 to 600$. Thats looking at either ASUS or MSI.

If that's the case, it's a rip-off.

256 is not important in any game available today. You can go to any video card comparison, and you will see that if you double the memory to 256 while running at the same speed, the average FPS boost in current games is 0. This will obviously change in the future, as the average video memory requirement will obviously climb over the years, but you will probably get another new card by then anyway :smile:

Apparently the U3 engine will require 1Gb of video memory to run it on its top settings :biggrin: Will be a couple of years before that is used in games however.

I've seen a SAPHIRE 9800 (pro I think) for 300$ but I dont know if thats just junk or quality.

If a card uses a given chipset and amount of memory, it will be running at the same frequencies as any other card based on this chipset - the performance differences between two cards running the same hardware at the same frequency are too small to bother considering. Almost all makes come with a warranty, so if it breaks, you get a replacement. The only real difference between the different brands is that some will be better for overclocking, and some come with better software packages. The 9800 you saw for $500 would have been a 9800XT.

scary_jeff said:
256 is not important in any game available today. You can go to any video card comparison, and you will see that if you double the memory to 256 while running at the same speed, the average FPS boost in current games is 0. This will obviously change in the future, as the average video memory requirement will obviously climb over the years, but you will probably get another new card by then anyway :smile:

Yep. It's just not worth paying more money. A 128MB 9800 Pro will do you well and doesn't cost much more than a 9600XT...as well it has twice the pipelines I believe (8 compared to 4).

The X800 is a much better card in my opinion due to the fact that it doesn't require taking over 2 molexes, a PCI slot just to get comparable performance. ATI owns the market if you plan on playing with AA and AF on.

Saw a few benchmarks from Call of Duty and the X800 with 6xAA and 16xAF at 1600x1200 I believe it was ran at 250-320fps. :razz: Damn that thing's powerful. Can't wait to put one of those in my rig in a few months. (By the time I have the money it'll be a price I can chew.)

I agree that the nvidia card needing two molex connectors is a bit lame, but this is only for the very top end card that hardly anybody will be buying. Also, who puts a PCI card in the slot right next to the AGP slot anyway? If the graphics card doesn't physically block this slot, then putting a card in it will severely restrict airflow to the graphics card...

I'm also waiting to get one of the new cards, hopefuly the '3rd one down', that has been announced, but not released for review. Apparently it should come in at ?200/$300, which is about my limit for graphics card spending (I refuse to spend more money on that one small board than for the motherboard and processor combined :smile: )

I refuse to spend more money on that one small board than for the motherboard and processor combined

... how much do the boards and chips cost there?? Since, $300 is twice as much as my board and processor combined (yes, retail.)

You got motherboard and processor for ?100!?

I guess it depends on what motherboard you get... I'm planning on getting a P4P800-D, which is around $100 on newegg. I know there are a lot cheaper boards, but I think the motherboard is one area where money is well spent. Plus I will need many of the features it has such as 1MHz FSB increments, adjustable Vcore/Vmem, >2 IDE conenctors, SATA connectors, smart fan throttling, etc etc.

I have only ever bought Asus boards, and I would never buy otherwise - it just doesn't seem worth skimping on such a critical part of the system. Same goes for power supplies - I look around, there are 'value' 450 watt supplies for ?15, then branded ones at around ?60. I would rather pay more for a quiet, quality PSU, with good tolerances. Power stability is critical in having a stable system, and for me, a slower, quieter, stable system beats a faster, but more noisy and unstable system any day. I definately don't go in for all these lights and stuff though.

Kage_Prototype said:

oiw... lol some say 256mb is important some say otherwise... lol. DEBATE!!!:D nope. I'll have a look see on ebay for cards. Cause yea, the 9600 and the FX5700 are about the highest price range I could go, the stores sell the 9800 for about 500 to 600$. Thats looking at either ASUS or MSI.

If that's the case, it's a rip-off.

Canadian currency remember :razz: lol. 500$ CDN is about 350$ USD ish ish.

I know the 9800 has 8 pipes instead of the 9600's 4 which is obviously better, but you also have to consider that the card Im currently running only has 2, and is in a PCI slot!... almost any card today is a upgrade... lol.

Crono said:
Asus can suck donkey nuts. :biggrin:

IMHO Asus, are a good company, i've had one of thier motherboards [ a7v8x-x]for about half a year and it runs superb, the only one i don't like is the a7v8x-mx. The graphics on that are sh*te.

What onboard graphics isn't rubbish?

Wild.. that may be so, but wheres the sense in buying the 9600XT, when for not much more ($300, you say?), you can get somethng significantly better. If you aren't sure, go look at some reviews. Google any product for '<productname> review', and you will get a ton of results and forums threads.

another thing to consider, and since i have not read this entire thread, it might have been mentioned already..

different combinations of parts act differently..

i have an elcheapo ATI 9000 AGP card.. it works so-so for me, no real complaints considering how little it costed, but... i have seen higher benchmarks on other computers posted.. i assume its another portion of their PC compensating..

also, i have heard of conflicting parts causing grief.. picking the best card, may not be wildcards best option, considering the mixmatch his PC is in.. (high grade rams mixed with a low end microprocessor)

good luck WC

Orpheus said:
also, i have heard of conflicting parts causing grief.. picking the best card, may not be wildcards best option, considering the mixmatch his PC is in.. (high grade rams mixed with a low end microprocessor)

good luck WC

I love it how you always forget I upgraded my CPU :razz: lol. The only thing I find inst up to par in my computer right now is the video card and PSU... maybe my internet connection too :biggrin:

Right now, like I said, the gap between the 9600 and the 9800 is almost double the money. Unless I end up finding a good deal either on eBay or something else. And the 9600 at its current price is also expensive already. I know prices will drop come the new gen cards but still.

Wild Card said:
I love it how you always forget I upgraded my CPU :razz: lol.

ahh, i wasn't aware i was supposed to, but thats fair.. i didn't recall.

my comment still has value, even if my choices were not.

What are you suggesting Orph?

Jeff, ASUS is the ONLY company I've had major problems with.

Believe me, I don't skimp on any of the parts or get cheap crappy parts (like Gateway, Compaq, or Dell).
Lately I've been sticking to MSI, I've not had one problem with them (nor have my 6 other friends who have one of their boards), however, they were purchased over a year ago ... and they're not Intel boards :razz:

Power Supply: enlight.
Drives: IBM/Hitachi.
Network: 3com/USRobotics.
CPU: AMD (it's just easier on the wallet, and gives out the same performance value :smile: )

Someone can tell me if this is trust worthy and valid of my video card dollar?

http://www.oemexpress.com/printItem.asp?CartId={E1A4BDF2-7400-46FE-BCD7-468A1F077EC7}&ic=VIDATI%2DR96256O&Tp=&iMatItem=

Versus my current choice from ASUS, my brother had a ASUS card and didnt have any problems...

http://www.pccyber.ca/scrItem.asp?product_id=3477&product_subtypes_id=287&product_types_id=26

Wild, the cheaper one is a 9600, not a 9600XT. It won't perform as well by a significant margin. It is a nightmare buying any computer part, you just have to go for it. whatever you buy, you could have spent a little less for something not quite as fast, or a little more for something a bit faster, and whatever you buy (bar RAM), you could have got it cheaper if you had waitied a month. These are two unavoidable facts that you have to accept before you go ahead and buy something :smile:

OK Crono, well I like Asus and I'm not changing. We all have our hardware predjudices, mine is against VIA :smile: I suppose another reason it's more expensive is because of the Intel chipset, but i like them to :biggrin:

Bah, I don;t understand why people are so against Asus, I've had no problems with them, neither has any of my friends.Back to the graphics....

A few good sites to get hardware from.....: www.dabs.co.uk
www.scan.co.uk
www.komplett.co.uk

Wild Card said:

Orpheus said:
also, i have heard of conflicting parts causing grief.. picking the best card, may not be wildcards best option, considering the mixmatch his PC is in.. (high grade rams mixed with a low end microprocessor)

good luck WC

I love it how you always forget I upgraded my CPU :razz: lol. The only thing I find inst up to par in my computer right now is the video card and PSU... maybe my internet connection too :biggrin:

Right now, like I said, the gap between the 9600 and the 9800 is almost double the money. Unless I end up finding a good deal either on eBay or something else. And the 9600 at its current price is also expensive already. I know prices will drop come the new gen cards but still.

Double? The difference between the 9600XT and 9800 Pro is like $50-70 bucks. NCIX.com has (and you can pricematch it for lower and also get discounts) the 9600XT for $270 or so and I've seen the 9800 Pro at $330.

scary_jeff said:
Wild, the cheaper one is a 9600, not a 9600XT. It won't perform as well by a significant margin. It is a nightmare buying any computer part, you just have to go for it. whatever you buy, you could have spent a little less for something not quite as fast, or a little more for something a bit faster, and whatever you buy (bar RAM), you could have got it cheaper if you had waitied a month. These are two unavoidable facts that you have to accept before you go ahead and buy something :smile:

OK Crono, well I like Asus and I'm not changing. We all have our hardware predjudices, mine is against VIA :smile: I suppose another reason it's more expensive is because of the Intel chipset, but i like them to :biggrin:

No s**t! I paid 67$ for both my sticks of RAM and they are now sold at 89$... ahh isnt it good when stuff is priced to order :biggrin:

I guess since we're all talking Radeon though, that the FX series cards kinda went out the door lol. Bah, the 9600XT has higher clocks and as someone stated, on the ASUS board, its got plenty of overclocking potential... backed by my 4 case fans :biggrin:

But is it better to get the 9600XT or one of the 9800 cards? I'd be thinking of staying with the 9600XT since all the 9800 cards are really darn expensive. And looking at comparisons from ATi's website, there arent that many things better with the 9800. 4 more pipelines, higher RAM clocks, lower GPU clock, more textures..

http://apps.ati.com/ATIcompare/

Go there and compare the 9600XT, the 9800Pro, and the 9800XT. Prices are: 237$, 467$, and 587$ respextively.

http://www.pccyber.ca/scrItems.asp?product_subtypes_id=287&product_types_id=26

Bah, I don;t understand why people are so against Asus, I've had no problems with them, neither has any of my friends.Back to the graphics....

The whole incident of having 5 motherboards from them fail was a big factor :rolleyes:

Jeff, I don't have a big problem with VIA chipsets (not at the moment anyway). If you like Intel stuff, that's fine, but it's all in opinion of choice at this level :smile:

Im all for Abit :biggrin:

looks left and right...

runs

Im all for Abit

Dude, I'm sorry. orders zombie army to eat WC's brains, just to have them spit out because of they're un-nutritional value :biggrin:

Crono said:

Im all for Abit

Dude, I'm sorry. ~orders zombie army to eat WC's brains, just to have them spit out because of they're un-nutritional value~ :biggrin:

Well at least that comfirms I have one :razz:

Wild Card said:

scary_jeff said:
Wild, the cheaper one is a 9600, not a 9600XT. It won't perform as well by a significant margin. It is a nightmare buying any computer part, you just have to go for it. whatever you buy, you could have spent a little less for something not quite as fast, or a little more for something a bit faster, and whatever you buy (bar RAM), you could have got it cheaper if you had waitied a month. These are two unavoidable facts that you have to accept before you go ahead and buy something :smile:

OK Crono, well I like Asus and I'm not changing. We all have our hardware predjudices, mine is against VIA :smile: I suppose another reason it's more expensive is because of the Intel chipset, but i like them to :biggrin:

No s**t! I paid 67$ for both my sticks of RAM and they are now sold at 89$... ahh isnt it good when stuff is priced to order :biggrin:

I guess since we're all talking Radeon though, that the FX series cards kinda went out the door lol. Bah, the 9600XT has higher clocks and as someone stated, on the ASUS board, its got plenty of overclocking potential... backed by my 4 case fans :biggrin:

But is it better to get the 9600XT or one of the 9800 cards? I'd be thinking of staying with the 9600XT since all the 9800 cards are really darn expensive. And looking at comparisons from ATi's website, there arent that many things better with the 9800. 4 more pipelines, higher RAM clocks, lower GPU clock, more textures..

http://apps.ati.com/ATIcompare/

Go there and compare the 9600XT, the 9800Pro, and the 9800XT. Prices are: 237$, 467$, and 587$ respextively.

http://www.pccyber.ca/scrItems.asp?product_subtypes_id=287&product_types_id=26

Yet again, don't look at the ATI suggested price, you can get it cheaper by 100 bucks for the 9800 Pro...Look at outside shops and not from ATI directly (strange but true, it's cheaper to get it from an outside source than directly from ATI.)

Well at least that comfirms I have one:P

You forget, I made the zombie army!
And balloons don't count as brains, even if you color them with a pink marker. :razz:

Gorbachev said:
Yet again, don't look at the ATI suggested price, you can get it cheaper by 100 bucks for the 9800 Pro...Look at outside shops and not from ATI directly (strange but true, it's cheaper to get it from an outside source than directly from ATI.)

The prices I mentioned come from PC Cyber's website. www.pccyber.ca

I didnt look at the prices direct from ATi. Just now though, I found a guy selling a card on eBay so Im sending him a email with a few questions.

Well I think you're looking at the ASUS versions which are unnecessarily more expensive.

Go with a 9800 Pro 128MB version, not 256. That's $100 bucks you don't need to spend.

www.ncix.com has it for roughly $350 right now.

Wild Card. Go to google, search for '9800 pro review'. The resulting sites will tell you how the 9800 pro actually compares to the 9600XT, as opposed to how ATI say it is supposed to compare. Like I said before, and others have said, if you don't go for the most expensive brand with double the memory you actually need, the price difference between the 9600XT and the 9800 pro is around 20%.

Crono... I said 'hardware predjudice', this was supposed to indicate that such opinions are probably not widely applicable, as they are almost invariably the result of limited personal experience. I know VIA don't suck really, otherwise they wouldn't be one of the world's biggest chipset manufacturers :smile:

Crono... I said 'hardware predjudice', this was supposed to indicate that such opinions are probably not widely applicable, as they are almost invariably the result of limited personal experience. I know VIA don't suck really, otherwise they wouldn't be one of the world's biggest chipset manufacturers :smile:

I understood perfectly, my psuedodebatian. :smile:

scary_jeff said:
Crono... I said 'hardware predjudice', this was supposed to indicate that such opinions are probably not widely applicable, as they are almost invariably the result of limited personal experience. I know VIA don't suck really, otherwise they wouldn't be one of the world's biggest chipset manufacturers :smile:

VIA revolutionazied chipsets early on, but of late, they have fallen behind.

I've got my eyes set on a 9600XT on eBay right now, going for 90 bucks, but Im still looking for a 9800 at a decent price.

$90, bargain. MAke sure you are looking for a 128 meg 9800 pro. Any other 9800 will either be far more expensive, or not worth having.