Just saw the news! This is bad! Really bad! If that psycho really has nuclear weapons and religious motivation, then he is just insane enough to use them on the US, like he plans to!

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=30003

http://www.drudgereport.com/flash2.htm

http://www.rense.com/general59/osamahasreligious.htm

Stop for a minute and consider those news sources... This is one of those times where you really really shouldn't believe everything the internet tells you. The Drudge Report is notorious for being, well, rubbish.

He's also Saudi Arabian, not French. Bin Laden is the correct name :wink:

And yeah, the details are sketchy, vague and seem overhyped at best..

i heard about it on MSNBC TV this morning, i promptly changed the channel. :rolleyes:

well lets see......if he manages to detonate any of these pups on US soil, well......im thinking that all bets are off........and you will definately see what true "unilateralism" means.......

Doc B.....

He would never dare to do that. That would completely unleash the anger of the Americans. If he nukes NY, the next day all the arab capitals will be wiped out... Religious approval or not, no one's gonna open a Pandora's box.

actually, i think the "pandoras box", and the ensueing chaos is exactly what he wants....IMHO

Doc B....

Newsflash: He flew two planes into the world trade center.

I don't think there's any doubt as to wether or not he would use nukes if he had them.

well stated, yet a tad understated dave..... touche'''''''

agreed.....

Doc B....

Good point Alien_Sniper - it's not as if he gained approval from
clerics to do that, only hardline fundamentalists condoned it - and
they're more than likely in league with the various Arab terrorist
cells anyhow.

If they had nukes (I watched a theoretical television show based on
this idea) or nuclear material, the best they could manage is an
equivalent to the Hiroshima bomb. Even then they are not reckoned to
have the amount of nuclear material needed (if any at all), the
expertise, the facilities and the funds to undertake such an operation.

More to the point they feel that because the US has taken it's eyes off
of Afghanistan, Pakistan and the -nesia regions, Bin Laden and
associates will try and provoke popular uprisings in regions where
large sections of the population are considering/align themselves with "hardline Islam".
That's what we really need to worry about and analyse.

That or Iran and North Korea - although, I feel they may have more
sense than to stand up to the US government and provoke them with
nuclear bait.

Dr Brasso said:
well stated, yet a tad understated dave.....

uhh, i agree, but.. i am also hopeful.

If bin laden did have nukes, I expect the American intelligence agencies would know of them far ahead of any conventional news source. BIG BRUDDER IS WACHING YU.

Edit: BTW: who exactly is this Michael scheuer? It seems implausible to me that the CIA would allow it's "head of the CIA unit charged with tracking down the Saudi terrorist" to write two books against US policies on fighting terrorists.

Alien_Sniper said:
Newsflash: He flew two planes into the world trade center.

I don't think there's any doubt as to wether or not he would use nukes if he had them.

Taking down two towers cannot be compared with nuclear explosion: we're talking about contaminating a land for many decades, mass lung and skin cancer in a vast perimeter, etc... Remember Hiroshima and Tchernobil. For two buildings the US has already invaded two countries (considering Iraq is another reply for 9/11). A nuclear attack is by far a much worse offense; so they must expect a proportional strike back from the American eagle, in case they have the means to do it. Even if Ben Laden is a lunatic, his allies certainly are not.

As horrific and devastating as a nuclear attack would be, he'd be foolish to do so. Right now he's able to be kinda comfortable with most of the US' military strength tied up elsewhere and the remaining portions of the world still divided over US actions abroad. Detonate a nuke, and suddenly everyone could care less about Iraq and any other distracting factors.

If they had nukes (I watched a theoretical television show based on
this idea) or nuclear material, the best they could manage is an
equivalent to the Hiroshima bomb. Even then they are not reckoned to
have the amount of nuclear material needed (if any at all), the
expertise, the facilities and the funds to undertake such an operation.

Note:

Bin laden doesnt need to make one himself.

At least 30 small nuclear briefcases (containing mini-nukes capable of
blowing an entire city core of the planet) has been stolen from Russia
due to low security.

In addition to that an amount* of nuclear missiles made during the soviet era has been stolen aswell.

No one knows where they are right now.

Im not saying that Bin laden HAS something like this.

I just say that he doesnt need to make one himself.

And IF he had one he still would have to make a launchpad and a crew
smart enough to program it. Personally i think it would be pretty hard
to get hold of such a staff.

• I dont really know how many it was.

Gwil said:
Bin Laden is the correct name :wink:

Every TV channel spells his name diffrently :razz: .

True or not, US intelligence failed to predict the 9-11 events. Will they fail again?

Gwil said:
Bin Laden is the correct name :wink:

Every TV channel spells his name diffrently :razz: .

True or not, US intelligence failed to predict the 9-11 events. Will they fail again?

Well, your TV is stupid :razz:

http://www.fbi.gov/mostwant/topten/fugitives/laden.htm

The US knew that they were being threatened with attacks on government buildings, they could of prevented it.

True or not, US intelligence failed to predict the 9-11 events. Will they fail again?

cough commander and chief sort of ignored their warnings when they did know :rolleyes:

There is no "proper" way to spell him name, Arabic has it's own symbols. That's onomatopoeia for you and is like spelling the sound you make when you laugh :razz:

Crono said:
<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quote:</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>True or not, US intelligence failed to predict the 9-11 events. Will they fail again?</DIV></DIV>
cough commander and chief sort of ignored their warnings when they did know :rolleyes:

Meh, he knew that they were considering using planes as a weapon, not where they were going to hit and where, so naturally he wouldn't say anything, as "Terrorists plan to use planes as weapons" would slightly hamper the airline industry and throw everyone into a hissy fit about "vague threats," something the Democrats like to complain about now.

Gwil said:
He's also Saudi Arabian, not French. Bin Laden is the correct name :wink:

ROFLMAO!!!

Alien_Sniper said:
Newsflash: He flew two planes into the world trade center.

I don't think there's any doubt as to wether or not he would use nukes if he had them.

Taking down two towers cannot be compared with nuclear explosion:
we're talking about contaminating a land for many decades, mass lung
and skin cancer in a vast perimeter, etc... Remember Hiroshima and
Tchernobil. For two buildings the US has already invaded two countries
(considering Iraq is another reply for 9/11). A nuclear attack is by
far a much worse offense; so they must expect a proportional strike
back from the American eagle, in case they have the means to do it.
Even if Ben Laden is a lunatic, his allies certainly are not.

It was the killing of innocent people I was comparing, rather than the
method. You have to be bats**t to kill people like that, no matter how
you do it, or how many you kill.

I doubt land contamination would put him off using a nuke.

And IF he had one he still would have to make a launchpad and a crew
smart enough to program it. Personally i think it would be pretty hard
to get hold of such a staff.

As far as I know, the only feasible way to detonate a nuke in America would be to actually smuggle it in rather than launch it.

Alien_Sniper said:
As far as I know, the only feasible way to detonate a nuke in America would be to actually smuggle it in rather than launch it.

The easiest way to get a nuke into America would be by ship. If they were to detonate one it would be at a port city with a large population and maybe a military station. The four most likeliest cities would be New York, D.C., Miami, and San Diego.

And Miami would be the most logical of those because its state voted for Bush... infidels.

Hugh said:
And Miami would be the most logical of those because its state voted for Bush... infidels.

If that is your theory then they will need a lot of nukes.

So, is he currently planning to put his nukes along with those ones that Iraq had? Its a good spot since you can deploy em within 45 minutes. No, wait...that was a totally made up claim to panic people and make it seem like invading another country and changing its regime was justifiable wasn't it?

Oh well, im sure they've got it right this time. Maybe they'll be in another country full of oil. Now wouldnt that be handy?

Why are we even arguing over this? Obviously these sources are a bunch of crap so there's is nothing to worry about.

Spartan, you know that and I know that but when the media is full of these scare stories (99% fabrications) it still has the intended effect of terrifying the unthinking masses.

It's also worth discussing the idea and it's implications. Not that we can change anything, but hey.

I know saying this could get me shot over in the US in the current climate as some kind of 'terrorist sympathiser', but the fact is all this stuff about Bin Laden would do anything to destroy the west if he could is a steaming load of....speculation. We only hear whatever America and the UK say he can and cannot do, and what he wants and what his demands (which he doesnt seem to have, accept for killing 'infidels', which doesn't make a lot of sense) exactly are.

It doesn't help anyone, other than those with their own agenda to mix fact and fiction. Look up any other terrorist organisation and you will at least know what they want and what their general tactics are. Look up Al Qaeda and its a load of "maybe they'll nuke us", "maybe they'll eat us", "and maybe they'll put poo in your food so you'll drink poo-water" etc.

I want a clear idea of the group, minus war propaganda, and I think I deserve that.

Times like these Im happy I dont live in the US :rolleyes:

fraggard said:
Edit: BTW: who exactly is this Michael scheuer? It seems implausible to me that the CIA would allow it's "head of the CIA unit charged with tracking down the Saudi terrorist" to write two books against US policies on fighting terrorists.

Astonishingly, Scheuer, while a CIA employee, was given full clearance to promote his book.

"As long as the book was being used to bash the President, they (CIA executives) gave me carte blanche to talk to the media," he said.

I was just reading an article "It's war: the CIA vs Bush". It seems all the 'liberals' in the CIA allowed him to do it as part of an anti-Bush smear campaign during the elections. I could well believe it, seeing as the administration and the CIA don't seem to be getting along, and Bush is pretty much 're-organising' the whole thing.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,11398926%255E2703,00.html

Mephs said:
...what he wants and what his demands (which he doesnt seem to have, accept for killing 'infidels', which doesn't make a lot of sense) exactly are.

Well, one of the main reasons Arabs in general (including me, except that I'm very fond of American culture) blame the US, is their biased position in the Israeli conflict. Another reason is Muslim fundamentalism who proclaims the "Jihad", sacred war against the enemies of Islam. Add to this the memory of the cold war, since this part of the world was pro-USSR, you have 3 sufficiant reasons.

But with el-Qaeda, there seems to be something else IMHO, that has to do with secret services: Bin Laden did formerly work with the CIA; the Bin Ladens disappeared the next day after 9/11; Bin Laden reappears "suddenly" on TV before the elections...

If you want a more clear idea, maybe this will help.

I am NOT condoning his beliefs,nor am I corraborating his statements. This is a literal translation of his speech directed to the American people. http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/79C6AF22-98FB-4A1C-B21F-2BC36E87F61F.htm

This was found using Google keyword "Bin Laden tapes".

Aside from the fact that he is basically a terrorist, he seems to have a rather firm grasp of Bush and his cronies, and their motives.

Kain said:

Mephs said:
...what he wants and what his demands (which he doesnt seem to have, accept for killing 'infidels', which doesn't make a lot of sense) exactly are.

Well, one of the main reasons Arabs in general (including me, except that I'm very fond of American culture) blame the US, is their biased position in the Israeli conflict. Another reason is Muslim fundamentalism who proclaims the "Jihad", sacred war against the enemies of Islam. Add to this the memory of the cold war, since this part of the world was pro-USSR, you have 3 sufficiant reasons.

But with el-Qaeda, there seems to be something else IMHO, that has to do with secret services: Bin Laden did formerly work with the CIA; the Bin Ladens disappeared the next day after 9/11; Bin Laden reappears "suddenly" on TV before the elections...

1. The CIA worked with him because Soviets were in Afghani territory and, well, we just didn't like the Soviets. I suppose you could make the argument that the US has replaced the USSR and Iraq has replaced Afghanistan, but many countries (or at least their countrymen) are helping Iraq now.

2. You're assuming that because Osama's related to them, that they must condone everything that he does, but he's been disowned by them. - http://www.ibb.gov/fugitives/binladen.html

3. When bin Laden appeared before the elections, he essentially said Bush is a liar and that whoever interferes with their security will have their security interfered with as well. I don't see how that's a pro-Bush mesasge.

this guy had the balls to shoot two planes at my country? kill damn near three thousand of my countrymen.....

f**k it....i want him dead.

....and if ya gotta go thru pakistan or syria or iran to do it........so be it.

Dr Brasso.....

....then bush uses it as an excuse to go into Iraq and get another load of your countrymen killed by people totally unrelated to Al Qaeda.