U.S. Election

Sounds to me like you're confusing evil with lovable, Crono. I mean c'mon, an orangutan gnome?! How is that evil!? I just want to hug it...

Hugh said:
I mean c'mon, an orangutan gnome?! How is that evil!? I just want to hug it...

hell, i'd give that a whirl myself :smile:

Are you insane!!!11

Gnomes are the most evil force in the universe. I mean, damn, they almost took Gegalon VII in the great Chrome Rush of 2538.

Them's evil som bitches.

Gwil -

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I think it very hypocritical of you to accuse me of arrogance when you have said in this very thread that anyone who supports Bush must be stupid. I can think of nothing more arrogant than slighting people simply for disagreeing with you. However I gladly admit your charges. My opinion is arrogant, but that does not make it wrong. I expected a better argument from you than name-calling.

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Omega -

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Do you really believe that Kerry won't also pursue Arctic drilling? Go have a look at his energy policy, and take a wild guess at what "domestic exploration" means. He's also in favor of nuclear energy (one of the few points I agree with him on) which is generally opposed for environmental reasons. So don't even try to argue for him on environmental policy. Granted, it would be hard to be worse than Bush, but I think Kerry might manage it.

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I'm sure there are some other points I ought to be addressing but I don't really have time. Anyone who is interested should have a look at this article. Its a very interesting analysis of the current world situation that makes allot of sense to me. Reading it may give people some insight into me own position.

Eh, I don't have time to read everything, but the initial topic asked for Americans voting for Kerry, and why they have chosen to do so.

You say the recession is over, but I'm not so sure it is. With the baby-boomers nearing retirement, there is going to be a serious stress upon many economic systems, notably social security. Bush's current pattern of deficit spending and upper-crust tax cuts just doesn't feel like a sound plan, and I foresee unfortunate repurcussions. Furthermore, his deficit spending is mostly centered in the military sector. I think we spend too much money on our military, and too much of it in non-efficient ways, as is. Kerry's repealing of the tax-cut likely won't fix the problem entirely, but I think it is much less disastrous than letting Bush spend money we don't have. In addition, outsourcing needs to end, and I believe removing Bush is a strong step in that direction.

I don't believe Bush's "No Child Left Behind" strategy works. My mother works in an elementary school, and she's constantly discussing the strain on low-budget school systems the policy creates. She was thinking about becoming and accredited teacher, but the policies in place just make it completely unviable within our family budget. If there's going to be deficit spending, then I think this would be a fine place to place it. Oh, on top of all this, Bush's abstinence-only brand of sex ed is irresponsible.

I don't enjoy Republican attack ads. I know the Democrats do them too, but the Republican ones seem far more vicious and really border on libel (see: Swift Boat). If not voting Republican will help stop this ridiculous practice (they only do things because they work), then so be it. It's also insane that so much time and energy has been spent on this Vietnam thing. Sure, past history has some affect on future behavior, but not to the exclusion of the present.

Our energy choices are not sustainable. Bush doesn't seem even interested in any sort of sustainability in this issue. I feel most of his appointments in this area have lacked true competence.

Frankly, I think they'd both work on and do a good job of pulling our troops out of Iraq. It's fair to say that a minimalized US presence over there is what most people want at this point, and no amount of rhetoric is going to change that this is numero uno on both candidates' minds. And that is why I don't consider the issue as important as the other stuff I described above.

someday, i would like to compare notes with you cash.. i realize you live in a different region of the US than i but still..

i would like to see how you, as a son of a teacher, and us, people with students for children actually agree or disagree on the true problems within the school systems..

i pulled my son out of school and home schooled him because the situation around here was so bad.

lemme know if its a touchy subject or not for you.. you may chose to not participate because your mom is a teacher.. for which i would understand completely..

I very much like the Republican ideal of lower taxes and less government spending, but they don't seem capable of actually cutting spending along with taxes do they?

On the issue of social security neither candidate has a good answer. In the second debate Kerry stated basically that he would leave things the way they are and do something later if it turned out to be a problem. Bush on the other hand has what I think is a good plan, but he has no way of paying for it.

On taxes, I've already said that I think deficits are less of a detriment than high marginal rates. But you're very right that it is incredibly short-sighted to run up debts in the hopes that an improving economy will raise revenues in the future to fix the problem.

On outsourcing, I totally disagree. Outsourcing is the best damn thing that ever happened to the world, and in the end is what will bring an end to terrorism. Sure it's painful for us. I myself am currently unemployed, but it's rather short sighted to cling to our jobs. Any measure the government takes to stop this natural market pressure will hurt the world economy as a whole, no matter what it does to us in the short-term. Besides, there simply is no way the government can offer subsidies or tax-breaks (same thing) that will "level the playing field" as Kerry is so fond of saying. The more jobs go overseas, the less people will resent America, the more hope they will have for the future, and the fewer will feel compelled to fight us. Besides, even if the government employed massive tariffs to control the import of cheap foreign-made products, that would only force us to pay that much more for everything from clothes to computers. That way lies rampant inflation and depression. In helping other economies to develop to our standard of living, outsourcing will also create new markets, new opportunities for investment, and really, a better world for everyone. Unfortunately we Americans have to tolerate a bit of unemployment in the mean time, but that just means adaptation. future generations will have to more fully transition to our service economy. American manufacturing is dead. The sooner people face that fact and move on the better.

Orph -

I was home-schooled untill the age of 16 when I began attending our local community college. I can't describe how great abenefit not being hammered by the public schools has been to me. We were the first home-schoolers in Lowell MA, the paper did a story on us and everything...

I don't know much of anything about Bush's education policy. IMO the whole school system needs to be completely changed. I'm not sure what it needs to be, but I'm also certain that the current system doesn't work.

A good start would be teachers who actually care about the children/student's welfare and education.

A lot of lower grade teachers, don't, and it's quite obvious since they refuse to actually tell kids about certain situations of whatever they may be learning, not to mention the automatic assumption that children are, in general, stupid.

And if they don't think that way, that's how it comes across.

Crono said:
A good start would be teachers who actually care about the children/student's welfare and education.

A lot of lower grade teachers, don't, and it's quite obvious since they refuse to actually tell kids about certain situations of whatever they may be learning, not to mention the automatic assumption that children are, in general, stupid.

And if they don't think that way, that's how it comes across.

i'd really like to go into this, but i would also like cash in on it, assuming he could be unbiased.. i would hate to alienate him about his mom.. mind you, i am not accusing, but some bad things could arise about teachers..

this topic, needs its own thread.!

Gwil -

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I think it very hypocritical of you to accuse me of arrogance when you have said in this very thread that anyone who supports Bush must be stupid.
I can think of nothing more arrogant than slighting people simply for
disagreeing with you. However I gladly admit your charges. My opinion
is arrogant, but that does not make it wrong. I expected a better
argument from you than name-calling.

I haven't said that anywhere, to be fair :razz: A slight kneejerk response
from me, admittedly, but I have extremely strong feelings about the
U.S. foreign policy :smile:

I said this

I have a funny feeling he will though, no disrespect to Americans for
voting with stupidity and patriotism of course.. the UK public vote
entirely on their wages, their commercial goods and their well being,
entirely based around the self - which means Tony Thatcher, cough
Blair rather will be back in for another four/five years.

Yeah, it's a generalisation - but I pour scorn on 70/80% of the people
eligible to vote in both my country, and your country. Blair
capitalises on stupidity over here, just as Bush (and Kerry too) does
over there :smile: I'm not saying that everyone who votes for Bush is
stupid, but they are stupid for voting blindly. The same way people are
stupid for voting blindly over here :smile: If you do vote Bush yourself,
I'd assume you did it because you knew his policies/supported them.

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Crono said:
A good start would be teachers who actually care about the children/student's welfare and education.

A lot of lower grade teachers, don't, and it's quite obvious since they refuse to actually tell kids about certain situations of whatever they may be learning, not to mention the automatic assumption that children are, in general, stupid.

And if they don't think that way, that's how it comes across.

I completely agree with you Crono. I look back on my days when I was I attended elementary school and think it was a waste of time. Kids could be taught so much more but the teachers don't care. Now I know that not all elementary school teachers are the same but many of them are alike. They are also bias against kids. Trust me when I say this because I had friends who's teachers would treat them like s**t compared to everyone else for stupid reasons. I have even seen racist teachers and there were a few of my own teachers that didn't like me because I was a guy. If you have kids you have probably heard them tell you something along the lines of "my teacher doesn't like me". Most of the time it is just an exuse but sometimes it may very well be true.

Crono to be fair, I think I recall you speaking on this topic before -
it seems a bad experience has soured you to teachers full stop. I obviously
can't comment on the standards of teachers in the U.S., but I imagine
it is the same as here - the teachers, for the most part, do care - it
is the Government policy that dictates the standard of education they
can give.

I know my father for instance feels his teaching has suffered over the
past few years, as a result of becoming disillusioned with the system
that we have in place. That's when things turn start manifesting
themselves in ways similar to those which you cite - ie, the teacher
becomes apathetic, and treats the job, just as a job - not a love, or a
passion, with which most sign up to this thankless career.

sighs

you guys ain't gonna listen are you.. i dunno about where you live but this subject brings out the worse responses imaginable..

my advice, for what its worth, if you do not have children in school, be very careful how you postulate your comments/theories.. being in school looking forward, and being out of school looking back, doesn't compare to being a parent and doing the exact same thing.

anyways.. i think i will let you all decide, just how far to go with this.. but i can tell you this much, it is my considered opinion, that the root cause of the school problems, are not governmental..

[edited for people who cannot read very well !! :rolleyes: ]

Gwil said:
ie, the teacher becomes apathetic, and treats the job, just as a job - not a love, or a passion, with which most sign up to this thankless career.

Yes Yes thank you, someone finally said it. This is the problem; like Orpheus said it is not a government issue but one with the teachers.

Are you telling me that the lack of proper information and studies has nothing to do with bad educations?

I understand raising a child has a lot to do with other childrens/people experience with them. But, come on.

Schools in general are malfunctioning systems.
They claim they need more money for several things, then they don't spend the money on that. They refused to go with cheaper, newer alternatives to several technologies and transportation issues. Did you know a RAZ bus costs the same as a school bus to rent (At least here) ?

The whole point is, it isn't one area's fault. It's all area's faults. Parents, Government, Teachers, subject matter. All of it.

yes but teachers become apathetic for a reason :razz: i gurantee there are
thousands of teachers in the USA who hate the government for
implementing crappy policies in education, i absolutely guarantee it.

teachers want to be free to teach, not be bound by policies from above...

Orph, your sentiments smack of "your opinion is not valid and I wont listen" :/

whatever you believe, your stance and ideals do not make anyones opinion ANY LESS VALID

fact.

Gwil said:
Orph, your sentiments smack of "your opinion is not valid and I wont listen" :/

get off my ass gwil, before you piss me off, thats NOT what i said at all, i am saying that this is a volatile topic, and should be handled with extreme caution..

believe me, i went through this when i had to home school, its not something you can JUST DO!! you have to show just cause before you are allowed..

i am saying this as nice as i can, if you falsely accuse me once more of having ill intentions, i will go off on you.. am i being perfectly clear??

being an adult with kids does put things into a different light.. but i am telling you, you are wrong about what i have to say, and i am betting you will be surprised with my replies on this topic.

do not falsely accuse me again .. PLEASE. twice in one day, is not accidental.

need i remind you that YOU used those exact words on me when i was telling you how moderators should be?

Crono said:
Are you telling me that the lack of proper information and studies has nothing to do with bad educations?

I understand raising a child has a lot to do with other childrens/people experience with them. But, come on.

Schools in general are malfunctioning systems.
They claim they need more money for several things, then they don't spend the money on that. They refused to go with cheaper, newer alternatives to several technologies and transportation issues. Did you know a RAZ bus costs the same as a school bus to rent (At least here) ?

The whole point is, it isn't one area's fault. It's all area's faults. Parents, Government, Teachers, subject matter. All of it.

What I am saying is that the lack of education is not because of government used towards schools but the teachers themselves. I have been fortunate to have such great teachers in my high school but there are still many that to say the least are dumba$$es. The reason I say will be explained. We all have home rooms which we only attend about 4 times a year for FCAT test. At the beginning of the year we had to attend our home rooms for the first few days. My "high school home room teacher" wanted to check our papers to make sure we had our names on them.

It's high school and she treated us like 3rd graders for God sakes. Also many of the teachers hate their jobs and will simply give out a worksheet for the students to do while they play solitare on the computer. There was junior high teacher that actually did that too. ALso you will hear how these elementary schools complain about lack of money yet at my little sisters school they spend around $4000 a year on pizza partys for the AB honor role kids. Why not stop wasting it on useless crap and put it to good use. Like buying somewhat decent comps instead of making the kids use 100mghz macs.

Spartan, I didn't contradict you ... at all ...

Well, believe what you like Orph but this isn't the first time you've
said other people have no good stand to comment on a subject because
they don't meet or have some requirement.

If you're going to put your 2 cents into an argument/debate, don't try
and belittle others opinions before or after they have been posted,
because it looks like incredible ignorance on your part.

And please, don't lecture me. I'm sick to the back teeth of it, moderator or not.

you can get sick till the teeth fall to the floor.. i didn't say no ones opinion was invaluable this time, i said its unique when you are from the perspective of a parent..

i gave you a chance to re-read it and with my explanation you should have had enough opportunity to save face.. you threw it back in my face.

i suggest you re-read it again, it may not help our current situation, but it might shine a bit of light.

next time you falsely accuse me, will be a problem..

for the record, stop using the term "knee jerk" it stinks of spontaneity, i can tell you that on this topic about schools, i have had years..

Whatever, I can't be bothered either way.

Gwil said:
Whatever, I can't be bothered either way.

dammit, don't do this.. every time your screw up you act this way.. its not wrong to admit mistakes, but its damned immature to run from them.

i look to you much more than you may think, but my patience does have its limits, and 2 times in one day is about maximum.

as i said, you may be surprised at my replies.. but now, you may never know.. we haven't even begun to talk about educational woes and already we have chosen sides.. i seem to be wrong, before i have even posted. :sad:

you need to go to bed.. being tired, is not always a good enough excuse.

in fact, i think i'll go to bed, and decide if my knowledge of education is worthy of so knowledged a member-base. :/

I'm talking about a much, much wider issue Orph - and it's not about
this topic. Like I say, I can't be bothered to thrash it out again
because it always, always turns into a lecture.

Either way let the topic roll on, i'm not discussing this any further.

if, you have issues outside the forum.. i am sorry.. i do understand real life.. sometimes its overwhelming. but you cannot let it effect our relationship inside this community, its not as if my woes and yours will ever intermingle.

if i wrong you, i usually accept your word for it and bow out.. you have trouble reciprocating.. i ask you once more, please re-read my reply and see if i didn't have the topics best interest in mind, or at least the possibility that i could have.

you can be anything you want, but you cannot step on me while you are doing it.. i'm sorry but i am adamant on that.

i'm off to bed.. its up to you now to decide if i am still worthy.

sighs

you guys ain't gonna listen are you.. i dunno about where you live but this subject brings out the worse responses imaginable..

my advice, for what its worth, if you do not have children in school, be very careful how you postulate your comments/theories.. being in school looking forward, and being out of school looking back, doesn't compare to being a parent and doing the exact same thing.

anyways.. i think i will let you all decide, just how far to go with this.. but i can tell you this much, it is my considered opinion, that the root cause of the school problems, are not governmental..

[edited for people who cannot read very well !! :rolleyes: ]

Yellow text

Posted by me

whatever you believe, your stance and ideals do not make anyones opinion ANY LESS VALID

Blue text

Posted by me

If you're going to put your 2 cents into an argument/debate, don't try
and belittle others opinions before or after they have been posted,

My opinion is
that the Government DOES have a large part to play in the way schools
are run, in fact, it is fact. Schools arent just rogue outposts of
crazy teachers, you know. We have something called society and
administration, and curriculum...

If needs be I can point to numerous other examples of where you do
this, on various topics of varying ages? Just in case my judgement, or
ability to read is being clouded by my "troubles outside the forum"
(way to go presumptions!).

Oh, and i'm not tired. I didn't get out of bed til 2pm, go figure.

gwil,

read my PM, afterward, i expect that smile.

Gwil said:
I haven't said that anywhere, to be fair :razz: A slight kneejerk response from me, admittedly, but I have extremely strong feelings about the U.S. foreign policy :smile:

I said this

Yeah, it's a generalisation - but I pour scorn on 70/80% of the people eligible to vote in both my country, and your country. Blair capitalises on stupidity over here, just as Bush (and Kerry too) does over there :smile: I'm not saying that everyone who votes for Bush is stupid, but they are stupid for voting blindly. The same way people are stupid for voting blindly over here :smile: If you do vote Bush yourself, I'd assume you did it because you knew his policies/supported them.

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Understood. I also have great faith in the stupidity -or ignorance- of the vast majority of the elctorate... I should have comprehended your meaning. :smile:

With respect to education, I think it is practically useless until you get to high school age. Of course that is entirely anecdotal evidence of my own experience...

In my view, the root cause off all our educational woes is that children learn three things in elementary school that cripples them for life:

1. Reading and writing are boring

2. Math is stupid

3. Science is dull

These three lies, primarily "reading is boring" account for 90% of the ignorance in America. By forcing children to "learn" what we say they must before they are ready, our school system robs them of the most precious thing humankind posses: the desire to learn. Children are naturally curious about everything, it is only after the first few years of school that this gift is destroyed.

I spent almost my entire childhood playing. I didn't even read well until I was 10-11 years old. Until I turned 13 I spent practically all my time outside digging in the yard, playing with LEGOs, building in the basement, and running around with Friends. Oh, my parents insisted that I learn SOME things. I could do basic arithmetic, and I knew how to read even though I couldn't do it well. I NEVER spent more than 2 hours a day on what anyone would call "School". However, despite what might seem to be a recipe for ignorance, the next-door neighbors were calling me "the professor" when I was 4-6 years old because I had a huge highly articulate vocabulary. My parents read to me all the time, talked to me as if I was an adult, and absolutely never answered a question with "I'll tell you when you're older" I knew why the sky was blue before I was 8 years old, could tell you all about rain, and condensation, and even the nature of temperature. Finally when I was 13 years old I just sort of decided it was time for school. My reading level went from 4th to 12th+ grade-level in a matter of weeks. I told my parents what I was interested in and they bought me the books. I read them, and the got some more. When I finally went to college at 16, no one to my knowledge ever guessed that I wasn't 18. I had to take one remedial math class (because I had refused to learn that for some reason), but aside from that I started at University-credit level. The only deficiencies such an unusual education has produced are my atrocious hand-writing and spelling skills. I consider that a small price to pay.

I've never asked somebody what they learned in elementary/junior high school and gotten an answer that was worthy of the name. People learn NOTHING of use in those grade levels.

Not everyone is Lucky enough to have well educated parents who make enough money to teach them at home, but if it weren't for that fact, I'd have no qualms in saying that public school is worthless. That I suppose is the point I was trying to get across with this mad rant.

Woah. I read all that, impressive, and interesting reading I must say -
although, it does point huge fingers in the direction that play is
always the most important part of learning - especially in the early
years. It seems to have benefitted you enormously, Tracer. Just why
can't our collective government policy makers see it and return
education to it's basic roots?

Discovery, play and socialising are key to developing the brain, and thus for learning :smile:

you know, i fully expected at the very least an "opps" gwil, especially when i explained my choice of wording in the PM's.. sadly, you disappointed me.

anywho's.. even though a portion of the government is involved with the situation, the root cause, at least in my region of the world is the parents.. hence my words

<DIV class=quote>
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<DIV class=quotetext>[color=#ffd700]doesn't compare to being a parent and doing the exact same thing.</DIV></DIV>[color=white][size=13]i posted that sentence to illustrate my scorn on the parents of today.. not to raise them as you so blatantly accused me of :rolleyes: .. read the entire paragraph in this new light and it makes sense, or should if one is capable of admitting it.[/color][/color][/size]

anyways, the parents of my state have caused so many issues that the teachers have little choices, they are being sued so often that they are forced to have insurance to cover this eventuality or they cannot seek employment.. parents refuse to allow the teachers to enforce guide lines necessary to the groups they teach as a whole.. parents are always citing that teachers stifle their development by restricting their right to express themselves.. i attended numerous parent teacher meetings where parents belittled the teachers constantly.. i don't know how you guys have these meetings, but the kids are present, if the parents chose to bring them.. the outlook for the teachers are grim when the children see the parents doing these hateful things to the teachers.

in a small way, i blame the teachers as well, because in their defense, they have adopted a policy of placing kids on drugs to ensure compliance.. this is creating more problems than solving, cause now we have children addicted to very strong drugs, and if you have ever seen a child who hasn't had their dose for the day.. its scary.

my experiences only extend from grade school through jr. high so i have to limit it to only those areas.. how the upper grades get treated are not my domain of opinions..

so, all your anger at me was based upon a misunderstanding, in spite of me repeatedly telling you that you would be surprised.. but.. i wanted cash's input before i said anything, because i felt it may have either supported my claim, or because he lives elsewhere, he might have said he had heard such rumors..

as far as the government in this area, i had to butt heads with them somewhat, but perhaps not for the reasons one would think of at first, but upon reflection, may after..
in this state, each school is given a specific amount per child to teach them within the system.. each child that is home schooled reduces that amount.. especially when one considers that we home school with NO GOVERNMENT AID!.. i was forced, due to my only being a high school grad to seek additional schooling for my son.. this monies came out of my pocket, not the government.. but in the end it was worth it.. my son was branded incapable of schooling within the system.. i had him graduated by age 16 and coming from a deficit of being 3 grades behind his age level..

anyways, as i said, you wronged me again.. maybe you felt you based it on past replies, i dunno nor care, since it doesn't move this topic forward.. but being a parent (or older) doesn't always mean s**t to me.. i was forced to do things because other parents made the situation that way..

Because they're f**king Nazis.

I think the only things I REALLY learned from school lower then HS was Math. That's really the only thing that carries on, in which you need to remember.

I had terrible dog s**t spelling and grammar until I took a writing class, in which I became easily able to structure my sentences and such. The problem is usually the other students, I think.

If you goto a public school when you're younge and you do your work, learn a lot, and things like that, you're ridiculed by fellow "peers". If you don't do ANY work, you're made fun of and called stupid. If just just become lazy and do some of the work, you're accepted. Which in turn begins a trend of half-assing your work.

This aspect of course comes from parents who raise their children who they themselves had poor educations. For instance: my mom doesn't remember basic algebra, she does not know how to solve: 24 = 4x.

And a lot of areas of the country don't think those things are important. Because, having some more hands with the cows will get you more money for the following harvest year. There are still plenty of families like this.

s**t man. I wish I started college when I was 16 ... I'd be done now.

TB, have you ever thought of getting your masters? If you have it at about 22, I have no doubt companies would be stabbing each other to get you.

But you're right for the most part.

crono, although i don't doubt your experiences, cause i have heard worse, i have to say its not always so..

my schooling in grade school and jr. high was exemplary.. i was a mostly A student, and that wasn't because i was completely capable.. i had teachers who cared, some who cared less, but for the most part, my school was good..

i excelled in some areas, and struggled in others just like normal kids.. in fact when i learned the term "dyslexic" it really turned my life around.. i used to think there was something wrong with me.. well dyslexia is something wrong.. but its overcomable.. or at least my level of it is..

anyways, not all schools are bad..

It's a general practice. I never said, "Every teacher is bad" or "schools are bad". If I thought that why would I pay 10k a year to goto one?

I have had good teachers before. But I remember what the material and content was. I remember that no matter what I was always underestimated and the simple fact was, I didn't give a s**t about what they were teaching. Especially in middle/junior high school. They interpreted that as, "He is dumb."

I even remember back in elementary school, they tried to put me on riddlen because I, get this, wouldn't listen to them. A 5 year old kid with an adult they've never met that does nothing but yell at them. I believe at one point they thought I needed to go into ESL, simply because they assumed I spoke Arabic at home, which is/was not true.

Schools aren't the same now as they were ten or twenty years ago, but the same core problems are still there.

I'm more specifically talking about Oregon school districts. However, I know they follow practices upon national practices. The big emphasis in those years was History. How much of that do I remember now? I'm sure Gwil can induce how skewed my memory is on the topics of wars.

I was homeschooled from 3rd to 6th grade, and during that last year all I did was play Castle of the Winds... 8 hours a day... so naturally my social ineptitude knows no limits. I think homeschooling should only be a legitimate option if the parents are actually qualified to do some form of teaching and not just assume that more is better and absolutely smother you with work in the vain hope that it'll make you smarter/want to work harder/etc.

Anyway, I learned basically all of my decent grammar/punctuation/vocabulary skills in one term at my high school because the teacher rocked (even a one-day Jeopardy champ) and made you want to learn.

So, my summary is: Don't be a teacher unless you're A) capable of teaching, B) a likeable person, and C) very knowledgeable.

Gwil - I've asked the same question many times. Surely eternal recess for kids under 10 years of age wouldn't be that hard to implement!<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

Crono - Not gona' happen. I turn 22 next month and I only graduated last spring. It took me five years to finish my bachelors because I didn't know what I wanted to do for the first two years... Anyway if graduate school is in my future I'm going for a PhD.<?xml:namespace prefix = v ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" /><v:shapetype id=_x0000_t75 stroked="f" filled="f" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" o:preferrelative="t" o:spt="75" coordsize="21600,21600"> <v:stroke joinstyle="miter"></v:stroke><v:formulas><v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @0 0 1"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @6 1 2"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @8 21600 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @10 21600 0"></v:f></v:formulas><v:path o:connecttype="rect" gradientshapeok="t" o:extrusionok="f"></v:path><o:lock aspectratio="t" v:ext="edit"></o:lock><v:shapetype><v:shape id=_x0000_i1025 style="WIDTH: 11.25pt; HEIGHT: 11.25pt" alt="" type="#_x0000_t75"><v:imagedata o:href="http:/www.snarkpit.com/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif" src="file:///C:\DOCUME~1\CHRISA~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\msohtml1\01\clip_image001.gif"></v:imagedata></v:shape> <o:p></o:p>

Right now I just need a job... I'm gone be pissed off if I end up back at UPS after having spent 20,000 on my education.<o:p></o:p>

Hugh said:
So, my summary is: Don't be a teacher unless you're A) capable of teaching, B) a likeable person, and C) very knowledgeable.

you could apply that to any profession, INCLUDING parenting.. the point is, if everyone followed those words, it may be a better place, but a much smaller one..

and i disagree on one point, the teachers don't have to be liked, just respected.. and respect is taught at home.. the old saying, "you must make a child mind at home before they will in public" is very,very true.

Well, for me, respect and likability go hand in hand. If someone's an insufferable prick, I tend to not respect them. I suppose there is a difference like with I dunno... someone much more intelligent than us who stabs me... I don't like him, but I respect him... er something. I'll just shut up. :/

I certainly know people whom I respect deeply while still hating their guts... One of my ex girlfriends is a good example.

/me thinks you are confused about what respect is..

lemme see.. my best friend in the whole world is a good example.. i can say this out loud, i care for him more than any male person in the world, but i don't respect him much.. he is a womanizer, he is racist, he thinks having sex with another race is akin to screwing live stock.. he associates with gays, but i wouldn't trade him for anything.. friendships are funny things..

i like many of this forums members, but i respect very few.. its one of those age things again, but its true.. try respecting someone less than 1/2 your age and such.. damned few would, the fact that i can respect some speaks mounds for them i assure you.

also, i respect some of the members here i don't like at all.. for obvious reasons that would not be wise to go into.

anyways, respect, and like, are not always interchangeable.

TB, still man, even if you started next year when you're 22. That'd be a masters by 24 and if you wished a PhD by 28. Most people don't get PhDs until they're in their late 30s (That is the average person). But I've heard, especially in sciences, once you get your PhD, you're so sick of the subject that you don't want to use it, so you teach. In which case. You can easily be an instructor.

Actually, dude, why don't you apply at PSU to teach remedial chemestry or something as such. I think they cut you deals if you're gaining another degree at the time. But that's just my impression from the grad instructors I've had.

Also, Orph, that's a fine point as long as you're not confusing respect with fear. One does not mean the other and many ... older individuals use the terms interchangably, and it's always confused me.

doing something someone says because you're afraid or intimidated by them = Fear.

doing something someone says because you admire them or like them = respect (or rather closer to respect then fear)

only bullies say that crono.. i can make someone fear me, its better to earn their respect..

i have seen people who say fear=respect, but they are dimwits..

i promise, i have no trouble accomplishing either if i set my mind to it :biggrin:

I feel that Orph and myself are fearless. More Orph than myself, naturally, I wouldn't fight him.

Hugh said:
I feel that Orph and myself are fearless. More Orph than myself, naturally, I wouldn't fight him. :heh:

fearless, see thats another word you may be misunderstanding..

i have lost teeth in fights, but i can say i have never been fearless while fighting.. i have won fights i have lost fights, but fearless??

fearless, is often confused with bravery, i have literally saved at least 1/2 a dozen people in my life.. people who would have died had i been not present.. but thats neither fearless nor brave.. its.. something i have not the words to explain..

i do not consider myself fearless.. independent to the point of social outcast is more likely :biggrin:

[edit] on that note, i really must go to bed.. my patching it up with gwil wouldn't allow me to sleep.. pats self on back i think i did very well :biggrin:

nite all

[/edit]

Er ... or people who were instilled with that thought process.

Bottom line is that I'm just tired of school for the moment. Average track to a PhD in Chemistry takes ~5 years. So had I applied for this year I'd be looking at graduation at 27. If I don't find a good job soon, I'll probably be going next year. I'm looking at the University of Washington in particular because they have a great physical chem/nanotech program. Plus it's closer to North Cascades NP :biggrin:

NO, I'm not confused about the word. My last girl was about the smartest person I had have ever met. I deeply respect her intelectual abilities, but for various reasons, I rather loath her at this point.

I've exhausted my feelings of this topic too much with the old "schoolyard" crew, if you'd like to call my college classmates that. I just hope you understand why the world doesn't like you if you elect Bush again.

Orpheus said:
i like many of this forums members, but i respect very few.. its one of those age things again, but its true.. try respecting someone less than 1/2 your age and such.. damned few would,

hehehe. I know how it feels to get no respect from people older than me. I am not being an asshat but there are many adults which don't nearly have my intillect. Yet none of them would ever respect me because I am younger and they truly believe that being older makes them smarter. I am pretty damn smart for my age (16) and mature but I have been around "regular" people my whole life when I should've been doing things at a higher grade level with more mature people. I love talking on the Vlatitude forums because it gives me a brake from school to have a conversation with a much more mature person. I think my maturaty has also gone down some because I have been around many immature people my life so sometimes I can be pretty immature. Anyways it sounds like you were lucky to have the parents that you had Tracer Bullet. That is how I am going to treat my kids someday. Public schools are good for showing just how stupid some people can be. Sad to say I don't really even try in school anymore so my grades are slipping. I am however taking a drafting class that I will take for all 4 years of highschool. This is my second year all ready and by my senior year I will be doing blueprints, autocad, and even drafting out an engine block. I should then have the qualifications to abtain a drafting job.

P.S. geez I used the word "mature" a lot.

Crono said:
TB, still man, even if you started next year when you're 22. That'd be a masters by 24 and if you wished a PhD by 28. Most people don't get PhDs until they're in their late 30s (That is the average person). But I've heard, especially in sciences, once you get your PhD, you're so sick of the subject that you don't want to use it, so you teach. In which case. You can easily be an instructor.

Over here in the UK a lot of people have them in their mid 20's (~26/27). If I decide to do a PhD after my current course I'll have one when I'm 24, and I'm not a genius in the slightest... And what Tracer said about his home education benefiting him more than if he were at school seems to hold true for a lot of people, but a) people are different and some will do better in a school and b) yes you need highly motivated parents.

To be honest, we've been using a school system for the last couple of hundred years and look where it's got us! Over here in the UK at least, it seems to be beginning to fail people because our inept "government" is screwing around endlessly with the curricula. Their latest scheme seems to be to get rid of exams and have all vocational courses, so screw the intelligent man...

home schooling has its benefits, and drawbacks.. its hard to say how my son would have turned out had he stayed in public school.

one thing though, you cannot go second guessing a decision like that, you are either in or out.. don't try to home school if you are not ready..

Leperous said:
Over here in the UK a lot of people have them in their mid 20's (~26/27). If I decide to do a PhD after my current course I'll have one when I'm 24, and I'm not a genius in the slightest... And what Tracer said about his home education benefiting him more than if he were at school seems to hold true for a lot of people, but a) people are different and some will do better in a school and b) yes you need highly motivated parents.

To be honest, we've been using a school system for the last couple of hundred years and look where it's got us! Over here in the UK at least, it seems to be beginning to fail people because our inept "government" is screwing around endlessly with the curricula. Their latest scheme seems to be to get rid of exams and have all vocational courses, so screw the intelligent man...

Yeah. IF I worked my ass off like no other from day one in college I could of had my PhD (Which I will not pursue in computer science) when I would have been 26 or so. But, I decided I liked having hair and normal pupils.