Funny things that happen while i drive.

While I was on the road this time, 2 notable things happened, bare with me cause this post could get lengthy, but most of it is funny as hell.

1) while I drive, I listen in on, or participate in numerous conversations over the C.B. radio. This particular event, some bible thumper was going on and on about how his religion says this, or that. The most notable was the time frame involved. His 6 thousand year period and how the predictions for the end of mankind, but about the middle of his triad, I had a vision. In it I could see a bunch of dedicated dinosaurs carrying signs that read "Repent" .. "The end is nigh".. and other such things.. Anyways, I never claimed my sense of humor had to make sense to anyone but me.

2) I was listening to N.P.R on the F.M. radio. In an article, the guy was claiming how its no longer necessary for the USA to have a social security any longer. His basis or pretense for this statement had me scratching my butt and wondering, "Where the f**k does this guy get his numbers from" He claims that over 70% of the US owns their homes now, and over 50% has some sort of a 401k plan. He also claims that we are now prosperous enough of a country to not need such archaic concepts.

First of all, I personally do not know 5 people who fully own their own homes. I know several who are attempting to own them, but that IMO is not the same thing. It is a debt, no matter how you break it down. Secondly, very few jobs in Arkansas even offer a 401k plan at all. So I am wondering exactly where these numbers are coming from. Its not as if Arkansas is the only poor, or low income state. 70% of the people own a home? Hell 90% of the people I know, or have even heard about rent. Not only do the rent, but the rent apartments, not homes, as home rental is not as popular and apartments give more bang for the buck so to speak. Also, 50% of the people I know, are on some form of a governmental assistance program, because things like medical insurance is so rampantly high around here.

/rant

sounds like i'd have been quite irritated by this gentlemans banter jon....you know how i can get at times, especially with a religious nutcase....hell, nebraska isnt really a "well-to--do state itself.....64 percent of the family farms have dissapeared in the last 20 odd years ive lived here, and thats just the rural western end of the state....anyway, i hear ya man.... :wink:

on an up note, ive been offered a partnership in the construction company i work for, and im seriously contemplating going for it.....i dont expect social security to "keep me in the style im used to" ) tounge in cheek.... no balls no blue chips i spose....

Dr Brasso... :dodgy:

1) There is nothing more mind numbing than the mindset of creationists. You reminded me of a particularly funny Bill Hicks rant about this. Why are there no dinosaurs in the bible? "And the Lord and his disciples went down to bethlehem and Lo! A giant diplodocus blocked their road..."

While they have various 'scientific' explanations e.g. all the bones settled under the ground during the great flood. (why were'nt there T-Rexes on the Ark?, etc), my personal favourite is "Dinosaurs bones were put there to test our faith." :biggrin:

I used to actively seek these people, so that I could argue against this idea. But it never works, which I suppose is fair enough since I could never be convinced that creationists are right...

Yeah Orph, nothing beats a good lunatic rant to pass the day!

(My all time favourite one that I've heard is the (well thought out) theory that The Smurfs are Marxists. :smile: )

I would be curious to run a demographics of our members social status. nothing personal of course, but i would like to hear things like, "yeah everyone i know owns their own house/car/condo" or "nope, everyone is in debt to the gills"

i cannot believe for a second that we are as prosperous as he lead the program to believe.

also, what, if anything, would be a good substitute for social security? I mean, on a realistic level, everyone i know, cannot realistically spare anything to "sock away for the future"

The problem with these people is that they take these stories to be literal truth, against all evidence, even though there's nothing in the Bible to say these things are true and it does not pronounce its own infallibility. But, should you take it to be literal? I think it's clear from examples such as Abraham being asked to sacrifice his son (when he could just read his mind) that god isn't meant to be that straightforward with us, plus if it was written in the bible for the last few thousand years that there were these gigantic "dinosaur" creatures or it took billions of years for the universe to be created people simply wouldn't believe it.

Anyway, if there was a flood a few thousand years ago, where did today's genetic diversity come from if there's no such thing as evolution? Where did pandas and elephants and bisons and polar bears fit into things? If you don't believe in dinosaurs, where do Neanderthals and other extince Homo species come into it?! (This is part of my objection to Christianity right now, basically that the Jews before hand were making all this nonsense up to explain what they couldn't... metal chariots that god couldn't defeat, pah. (Judges 1:19))

Unfortunately I haven't got a clue what you're going on about with 401k plans etc. in your 2nd rant

Without knocking Americans in general, you do seem to all believe that you are better off than you are. Firstly noone likes to refer to themselves as poor, as there are always those less fortunate, and there is of course a certain social stigma to this. Also, I don't think people realise that they will ever join the rich elite, or elevate their class. Although I'm hardly an expert in Americans, I think the reason that your massive tax break for the rich was allowed, was because the poor honestly believe that they could be eligible for it in a year or too!

The American dream seems to be a good way of keeping poor people in false hope and fantasy.

Europeans are generally more realistic about the rich/poor divide, although I'd love to be, I know in my heart of hearts that I'll never be rich, and so just get on with my life with what I have.

The "this time next year we could be millionaires" idea is slowly catching on over here thanks to New Labour. Appearantly, anyone with a desk at work is 'middle class' now. :smile:

My personal financial/social situation:

?760 a month. No car, so I rely on public transport. I've never been out of the country for a holiday in my life, and I've an ancient second hand computer with a 56k connection. Oh yes, I also still live with my mother in a rented, overcrowded flat. But, hey! I'm middle class... :razz:

[EDIT] This Canadian version is the only one I could find, but its more for the analogy of the 'wealth parade' that I was after. When explaining/crying about the rich poor divide I generally quote it:

http://www.bctf.ca/LessonAids/online/la2030/TheGap.html

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Leperous</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>
Unfortunately I haven't got a clue what you're going on about with 401k plans etc. in your 2nd rant

</DIV></DIV>

google is your friend dear lep :smile:

i think the link could explain it far better than i.. but in essence, its an employer driven retirement plan which takes a portion of your salary, before you even see it, so you essentially do not miss it being gone.

most Arkansas employers do not sponsor this program, because its customary for the employer to match any dollar amounts taken. IE you send 20 dollars, they send 20 dollars, and you have 40 dollars credited to your retirement fund.
Arkansas really doesn't care how you retire.

#2. I'm almost sure he ment that "no longer necessary for the rich<span style="color: lightblue;">
to have a social security" becuase everyone he has ever known was well
off, thus everyone is well off. Poor people are only a figment of
our imagniation.

but really. My father just started
getting s.s. a few months ago and for a time the $600 or so dollors a
month he got becuase I was a minor in school was putting food on our
table. Not to say I am poor but my dad and mother's work dont
have a stable income. One month we can be upper middle and the
next we are using government money to eat.

This money will also help send me to college. So I can go out into the real world and 'stimulate' the economy!

---

</span>

The American dream seems to be a good way of keeping poor people in false hope and fantasy.

I agree, the tax cuts were a joke really. Americans in general are not
very good with money. Every time some one gets a raise or promotion
what do they do? step up their life style. Media and social taboo are
really to blame. <span style="color: lightblue;">If you dont have a nice house and a nice car your not going to get anywhere in life .
The rich are rich becuase they work well with their money (again in
general) if they get a tax cut they aren't going down to the local Wal
Mart and spending it all, they are going to save it.

Also, most tax cuts dont save the lower and middle class much money at
all becuase. Take this example, a single mother works 50+ hours a
week. Uncle Sam sends her a tax rebate for $500 bucks. So she things
'wow your great sam, thanks!' but how dose old sam afford to pay that
much to 80%+ of the nation? easy! cut funding for daycare centers. So
now our single mother is paying $500 a month for day care that is no
longer offored at her work place.

/but what do I know?

</span>

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting DrGlass</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>#2. I'm almost sure he ment that "no longer necessary for the rich<SPAN style="COLOR: lightblue"> to have a social security" becuase everyone he has ever known was well off, thus everyone is well off. Poor people are only a figment of our imagniation.

</SPAN></DIV></DIV>

god please, at least take a moment to consider what you are typing.

why would a rich person even bother with SS? are they complaining that because they don't need it, they should not have to pay it? if thats the case, what about us younger types whom will never see it at all, why do we need to pay it?

his comments specifically state that we are a nation who is more than able to support itself without the need for such a system as SS. i disagree. our nation is made up predominantly of procrastinators. there is always a tomorrow, until suddenly there is none left. i do not know 5 people whom save for retirement. i do not know 2 people whom even think of old age, and its obvious shortfalls.

i was listening to the radio, and the sentence that hit me strongest was "President Bush seems more inclined to assist other countries instead of his own"
i can take you to residents with 30 miles of here without an inside bathroom. its rare, but it is a sign that all is not well.... yet.

oh sorry orph, blue = sarcasm. I do agree with you, people like those this guys is talking about dont need it. But even if 99% of the population didn't need s.s thats no reson to take it away from those who do need it.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting DrGlass</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>oh sorry orph, blue = sarcasm. I do agree with you, people like those this guys is talking about dont need it. But even if 99% of the population didn't need s.s thats no reson to take it away from those who do need it.
</DIV></DIV>

ahh, i read blue=humor
my bad.

thats the internet for you.

Something I saw today that was a driver, (i cant drive... yet.)

A bloke either had incorrectly rigged up nitrous oxide (which is
illegal) or his engine was seriously screwed up in some way. His car
was a rather sporting variety of a masda. This car was going up and
down the street, revving up his engine repeatidly, when getting into
high-revs, a very loud bang was coming out the back of the car. He
mistimed this once while at the front of a que for the traffic lights,
revs up the engine in his rather sporty red masda followed by an even
larger bang, a rather disgruntled driver shouting "oh sh*t" and the
passenger holding a can of fosters leaning out the window looking for
flames. This was then repeated several times in rush hour traffic at a
busy intersection until they finally stopped at the far end of the
street and didnt come back again. I didnt look, but somehow he probably
dislodged the exhaust pipe and his engine caught fire. I didnt look
exactly, as my bus has arrived.

Crazy things happen to townies in England... Gwil will know what I mean :biggrin:

Heres the thing about owning real estate - the prices tend to go up, and quite significantly depending where you are. So, suppose you bought a house that costs $200,000 with and pay $20,000 up front. Suppose that over 10 years the value of the house goes up to $300,000, something that is not uncommon. Well, right there you have made a profit of ~$100,000 on an initial investment of $20,000 since you could sell the house at any time, pay off the debt, and have $100k to spare.

and how the predictions for the end of mankind,

LOL, you had me at that point. I can't take any religion seriously where they predict the end of mankind.

he didn't say 70% of Arkansawyers have 401k. U have to remember all those rich guys in Cali. (i hate those bastards)

/schadenschaft

Don't even get me started on creation science... Those people are as bad as Jahzel!

To answer your question Orph, I live in a very affluent home. Upper middle class I guess you'd call it. My parents have "owned" a home for my whole life, and at this point, I think my Dad makes $100k+ per year. I don't expect that my parents will ever need SS, and I don't expect that I will either. It may sound cold, but I don't think the government should support people who are too short sighted to plan for their own futures. What I would like to see is a SS cutoff, where by everyone my age or younger never sees a penny, and then there is some sort of gradient so that the older you are (right now) the larger a percentage of your benefits will be paid. This way those who are already on social security won't get screwed, and my children won't have to pay for the damn system anymore. I realize that this sticks my generation with the bill for everyone older than ourselves, but I think it's a price that needs to be paid. I don't think that the system works, and if he government wants to provide for peoples retirements, it ought to mandate a certain percentage of savings for every citizen. That would be much more effective for individuals, better for the economy, and more efficient since it wouldn't involve a huge government bureaucracy.

Walking up to evangelical born-again christian and telling him you're
of a different religion is funny as hell: you wouldn't belive the kind
of steps they will take to try and convert you (bear in mind that I go
with the Big Bang, evolution and that, which proves the bible wrong in
several places)!

Walking up to evangelical born-again christian and telling him you're
of a different religion is funny as hell: you wouldn't belive the kind
of steps they will take to try and convert you (bear in mind that I go
with the Big Bang, evolution and that, which proves the bible wrong in
several places)!

Several? Try 100's.

h
<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting $loth</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quote:</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>Walking up to evangelical born-again christian and telling him you're of a different religion is funny as hell: you wouldn't belive the kind of steps they will take to try and convert you (bear in mind that I go with the Big Bang, evolution and that, which proves the bible wrong in several places)!
</DIV></DIV>

Several? Try 100's.
</DIV></DIV>

The bible is only "wrong" if you treat it as literal fact. The important thing is to realize that it consists mainly of allegorical stories. That said however, there is some very interesting historical evidence which supports much of it, as long as you think of it in context. For instance, the story of Noah states that the whole world was covered in water. While that is patently untrue, think of it from the perspective of those who experienced it. You are a bronze age tribesman. what is your conception of "the world"? Would people of this time period even have maps? I'm betting that "the wold" simply meant everything that could be seen. All that is needed for the story is a local catastrophe, for which there is ample evidence.
It is stupid to take the bible literally, but it is equally inane to dismiss it as religious lies no matter what you theology or lack thereof.

It may sound cold, but I don't think the government should
support people who are too short sighted to plan for their own futures.

Not all people fail to have money when they retire becuase they are
short sighted. There are so many factors that could lead to a
lack of money when old age comes about. Alot of familys need
every penny they earn just to get by. Putting an end to s.s. wont
curb younger people to save more for old age. In fact I would
venture to guess that it would cost everyone alot more if s.s. were to
be cut out of the system. Think of all the people who would apply
for welfare?

I think that the government should reward thoughs who invest their
money and save for their old age with tax cuts. If you fund your
own retirment I dont think you should have to pay as much to fund
another person's s.s.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting DrGlass</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>

I think that the government should reward thoughs who invest their money and save for their old age with tax cuts. If you fund your own retirment I dont think you should have to pay as much to fund another person's s.s.
</DIV></DIV>
SS does not work that way. If it is to continue unchanged, everyone has to pay, whether they need it or not. What would happen, I ask you, if all the wealthy people stopped paying SS taxes? the system would collapse. It is not a retirement system. Benefits are paid by current tax payers, not the money each individual puts in over their lifetime. Don't you think it would be better if instead of paying social security taxes, everyone was required to save that same portion of their income for retirement? You wouldn't be changing anything in terms of realized income.

Well yeah, that is true.

but bottom line is you cant tell the people what to do with their money.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting DrGlass</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>Well yeah, that is true.

but bottom line is you cant tell the people what to do with their money.
</DIV></DIV>
What do you call taxes? Free choice?

i didn't post this to start a debate on the pro's and con's of the tax system. my main point was to call attention to the numbers.. i do not believe there are that many well off people in this country. i drive a lot, i see slums everywhere. i do not think that they keep them around as a reminder of what can happen to you if you are neglectful. slums and poorer sections of the country are signs that this country is in trouble.

SS has a purpose, its not SS thats to blame for not doing its job, its the people borrowing from it to pay other things than its designed goal.

i have been paying SS for 20+ years, i will never see any return on that investment, and thats my only problem with it ATM..

i studied economics in school. its not the system, its the abusers of the system.

I think this might interest you Orph: http://ferret.bls.census.gov/macro/032004/pov/new46_100125_01.htm

It seems that 12% of all Americans are below the "poverty line". You can look up what that is, but I didn't bother. By contrast, 18% of people in Akansas are defined as poor. At a quick glance, only New Mexico rates higher on that scale.

Just to play Devil's Advocate, its in the best interests of western
governments to allow the creation of new businesses (to the point where
if, in the UK your business is deemed important to the economy, MI6
will actively help you in the international market) and they do
generally have a lot of schemes, grants, information and loans to help
you. I doubt that anyone here
lacks the intellectual capacity to come up with an idea or even to fill
a gap some market which would make a great business venture. But we
don't. Personally, I'd put this down to the lack of drive and
self-confidence I have, rather than the rich people taking steps to
keep me down. Surely, in your government's eyes, the more big
businesses, the merrier? In short, why the hell ARE'NT we all rolling
in it?

• goes to set up his business...after Friends is over....actually, I'll watch that, then The Simpsons...

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Tracer Bullet</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>Don't even get me started on creation science... Those people are as bad as Jahzel!

To answer your question Orph, I live in a very affluent home. Upper middle class I guess you'd call it. My parents have "owned" a home for my whole life, and at this point, I think my Dad makes $100k+ per year. I don't expect that my parents will ever need SS, and I don't expect that I will either. It may sound cold, but I don't think the government should support people who are too short sighted to plan for their own futures. What I would like to see is a SS cutoff, where by everyone my age or younger never sees a penny, and then there is some sort of gradient so that the older you are (right now) the larger a percentage of your benefits will be paid. This way those who are already on social security won't get screwed, and my children won't have to pay for the damn system anymore. I realize that this sticks my generation with the bill for everyone older than ourselves, but I think it's a price that needs to be paid. I don't think that the system works, and if he government wants to provide for peoples retirements, it ought to mandate a certain percentage of savings for every citizen. That would be much more effective for individuals, better for the economy, and more efficient since it wouldn't involve a huge government bureaucracy.

</DIV></DIV>
I agree completely. I don't think the government should support anyone who does not work. If they want to "help" people they can give them money for like a month. If they do not have a job within a month then too bad. Cut off welfare and SS. Cut off disability. They disabled should have a family to care for them, if they have no living family, they can get a job screwing on toothpaste lids. look at what steven hawking does!!

they can get a job screwing on toothpaste lids. look at what steven hawking does!!

Thats just cold, not all disability's are physical.

I agree. If you consider the fact that the people who make REAL money
do no physical work whatsoever, its hard to jibe the disabled. Although
a great mind and a poor body do not go together like some kind of
Hollywood 'supercripple' (Hawking was a great thinker before the limits
of his disability) in our developed world of machinery and information
technology everyone has a role.

Nickleplate, you obviously are not at the age to, or due to your
families wealth do not have to work. Everyone is out of work at some
stage. Companies push and push the limits of their employees to
increase the work of one man, and increase the ammount of unemployed.
It makes financial sense, in a cold way. But I'm not even going to rise
to your post's attention seeking nature (unless it was sarcasm, in
which case this was a massive waste of typing. I hope so)

Sorry, Didn't mean to come off sounding so cold.

Mephs, My parents are middle-class, But i do not rely on them. I do have a job and must pay for EVERYTHING of my own except supper some nights. I get charged rent, and i live in thier basement. I have a job at a school district as a computer networker that pays me $7.00 an hour and i work about 15-20 hrs a week. I also am taking 18 credit-hours of college in the next town over. while paying for ALL of this stuff, I still am not destitute, though I do not have much EXTRA money, I still ALREADY have a large savings account for when i am much older, It's not special 401k or "retirement plan" but if i keep saving the same amount every month that i am now, it will be enough so that i will not need SS. I'm not mad or anything, but i wanted to explain to you that I am not some 16-year-old who lives with mommy who pays for all my stuff. the only ties i even have to my parents is that i pay them rent for the use of thier basement.

Also, I know there are people who are classified as "profoundly retarded" who are not capable of even the most basic functions. I kinow that these unfortuante people also have very unfortunate parents that must take care of TWO people on the time it takes anyone else to take care of themselves. For people whose conditions are beyond thier control like retarded folks and psychotics and the like, I think some government help is in order. But these hillbillies where i live who are on disability for NO reason other than they fact that they want money should have something rEally bad happen to them.

[edit] yes some of the other post was uncolored sarcasm. mixed with me having a bad day.