60th Anniversy of The Holocaust

Any thoughts on the holocaust?

Your cat is a Nazi!

Other than that, not really.

Way to go to look intelligent by posting a topic about this and then saying only "any thoughts?" :rolleyes: I think it was a disgusting thing, and I can't really tell you any more as it was several generations ago and hasn't affected me or anyone I know, nor can I do anything about it.

My feelings pretty much mirror Leps - the only thing I would say with
one toe in the pool of controversy, is that the fate of so many Jewish
people has clouded the suffering of the mentally ill, gypsies, slavs,
POWs, non whites etc..

I know it is a great tragedy, but some camps blow the trumpet of
suffering as solely a Jewish thing, which is quite sad for the other
groups persecuted and murdered by the Nazis.

Dunno if anyone watched the "Nazis and The Final Solution" program on
BBC2 recently, bit misleading in what it said it was going to be about
(ie the implication was they were going to investigate the "mechanics",
for want of a better term). Some interesting accounts of ghetto leaders
(ie Rabbis or senior community figures) sometimes being in cahoots with
the fascists and persecuting their own people.

Another account spoke of Wehrmacht guards crying openly at the slave
labourers playing their music to pass the time - perhaps an insight
into compassion overriden by crazed people at the top.

Very interesting, but very sad all the same. Oh, and one of the former
camps had a car factory built on it. That, is truly disgusting TBH.

(Lep, I had wanted to start the ball rolling with my own views first, but had to look busy :smile: )

While the holocaust happened a long time ago, it still has a great impact on the way the world is today is. I'm sure that all the world leaders will happily spraff on about how such an atrocity must never happen again, and that's what gets me angry.

While our governments no longer use such overt tactics such as genocide, we live in a polarised world of us vs muslims, rather than germany vs jewish. I'm sure that the Nazi party were saying much the same things to their people, as our governments are to us. The only difference in the direction I feel the world is heading, is the supposed moral highground that 9/11 created (ie 'they' started it).

Don't forget that German wasn't a country populated by evil people, and I'm sure that some were convinced by their government that they were doing the right thing too.

Countries are STILL causing such atrocities in the world, and while nothing of the holocaust's scale of mass murder has happened yet, an unthinking us and them attitude could easily make this possible, and similarly 'justified'.

What I'm trying to say is look what happened the last time a whole religion/race was seen as enemies. We're only remembering this today because Nazi Germany did not win, had they have, I'm sure whatever government and media we would have installed would have a different slant on the atrocity.

We haven't learned a thing, it seems...

my opinion? it gets way to much publicity. don't get me wrong, it was extremely evil but it didn't effect my lineage at all. what did however was the holocaust of the native american indians. specifically the trail of tears.

i personally think, no one event should shadow any other when it comes to mourning. i feel for this topics descendants, but no more or less than i do for any other event in history.

[edit] what does piss me off however, some inconsiderate asshole made a song about the earth quake/tsunami.. freedom of speech my ass.. this crosses all the lines and should be considered criminal.

How do you mean, Orph ? About the tsunami song thing. I thought most of
the records made about it were Live Aid style charity things?

tsunami song? he's just looking for money... assholes...

Instead of mourning for every wrong of the past (except STEAM) why don't we just celebrate life. If every wrong was mourned for, the year would be full of sadness (especially if one event never overshadowed another.) So instead of being all sad about something that happend 60 years ago or even 60 days (unless you or your family was affected) We ought to be celebrating being alive.

PS the holocaust was sad.

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/275364p-235692c.html

Anyway, back on topic...

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Gwil</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>How do you mean, Orph ? About the tsunami song thing. I thought most of the records made about it were Live Aid style charity things?
</DIV></DIV>

asked my son, he said go here
personally, i was so disgusted, i walked off and didn't continue listening. i cannot confirm that this is the same song. :sad:

That's sick, quite simply. And without treading on dangerous ground
again, African Americans should know better about attitudes toward race.

Why can't people just let it go? Jeeze, sure it was bad, but digging up old wounds just brings out hurt. Look to the future, not the past. Learn from the past, but don't dwell on it.

Over 90% of my family on my fathers side was killed in the holocaust, I
think I had one great aunt who was able to escape by way of a potato
sack.

I dont hold any feelings that would trump that situation over any
other. History seems only to make the same mistakes with diffrent
names and places. Native americans is a very good example.
We emortilize a man who hated the native americans on our $20 bill (or
$10 I dont hav any money). What about the Asian Americans durring
WW2?

There will always be a dark side to the world like this. Not
always on this scale but it will always happen. I dont find this
situation any diffrent than a group of people killing a gay man or a
black person. The scale isn't the same, but the evil and the
hatered are.

In fact, this history that I have with the holocaust is one of the
resons I cant stand racist. I draw no line between the nazis and
a 19 year old kid using the 'n' word to speak about another person in a
spiteful way.

What can I say about it. It's horrible fact human beings were able to do this to other human beings.

The message is: never forget.

What can I say about it. It's horrible fact human beings were able to do this to other human beings.

The message is: never forget.

Nothing personll but that is a horrible message. There shouldn't
be these anniversy celebrations for things like this. "never
forget" is a very empty thing to say. Do people think that a
person will commit geniside becuase they forgot about the holocaust?

The message should be, "dont sit on your ass while bad s**t happens you dumb fatty"

The allied nations didn't really do much when Germany started killing
off every person they deemed unfit to live. They are all to
blame.

What can I say about it. It's horrible fact human beings were able to do this to other human beings.

The message is: never forget.

Nothing personll but that is a horrible message. There shouldn't
be these anniversy celebrations for things like this. "never
forget" is a very empty thing to say. Do people think that a
person will commit geniside becuase they forgot about the holocaust?

No, but I thought the "never forget" message was there just as a -
horrible - reminder to next generations, to not let this happen again.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Gwil</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext> African Americans

</DIV></DIV>

THIS is another thing i hate.

there are two kinds of Americans. "Native Americans" and "Americans"

everyone who arrived after we took the country from the Indians are just plain old Americans.

there should be no such thing as African Americans,Japanese Americans, or any other ethnic branding distinctions. If people do not have enough pride in themselves to be just Americans, then perhaps they should return to their countries of origin.

I do not have a single racist bone in my entire body, but when people want to set themselves apart with racial branding such as this, then they are the problem that needs solved.
The only people whom have any right to a distinctive class is the Indians. They were here first. we are the interlopers. :/

"I am not a racist, I hate everyone , irrelevant of other issues." - Paster Richards, Vice City

And the people from the x-communist block know best how it is to be
taken to a gulag because youre an american, an intelectual or a
liberal. And we've been both Nazis and Communists (and most would have
preferred the nazis than the communists)!

Gwil said:
African Americans

THIS is another thing i hate.

there are two kinds of Americans. "Native Americans" and "Americans"

everyone who arrived after we took the country from the Indians are just plain old Americans.

there should be no such thing as African Americans,Japanese
Americans, or any other ethnic branding distinctions. If people do not
have enough pride in themselves to be just Americans, then perhaps they
should return to their countries of origin.

I do not have a single racist bone in my entire body, but when
people want to set themselves apart with racial branding such as this,
then they are the problem that needs solved.

The only people whom have any right to a distinctive class is the Indians. They were here first. we are the interlopers. :/

I agree. But not really becuase it is a pride issue.

If some one lives in america, but dosn't want to forget where they came
from by giveing themself a title like African American. I think
that is fine. But when the government and its people seperate
everyone into classes based on country of origin or any other personal
foctor (sex, race, religion, etc) then we arn't moving forward.
Growing up we are shown that everyone around us is part of a unique
group and this seperates us far more than it unites us.

I have an even bigger problem with the phrase 'African American' unlike
other terms like Japanese or Chinese american. African American
suggest that you are talking about a person from Africa but in todays
world it is a PC term for a black person.

Not all the people from Africa are black and not all blacks are from
africa... And africa isn't a country... I think that is a horrible way
to generlize. How is it PC? African American is just like
saying "That black guy from africa, becuase we all know blacks are from
africa"

but, I digress. I think that the over use of titles to seperate
and catagorize groups of people (not unlike how the nazis seperated the
'pure' from the 'unpure') isn't helping make our nation/world a better
place.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting DrGlass</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>The allied nations didn't really do much when Germany started killing off every person they deemed unfit to live. They are all to blame.
</DIV></DIV>

Er, do you know how or why WWII started? How were the Allies meant to know what was going on in these places so early? And even when they found out, what, they're meant to just bomb the crap out of these places with complete disregard to the innocent people inside?
Quite oftens things which seem like someone having a hidden agenda or are being lazy AREN'T because of that- they're simply because you don't have the full picture of a full understanding of the factors!

DrGlass said:
The allied nations didn't really do much when
Germany started killing off every person they deemed unfit to live.
They are all to blame.

Er, do you know how or why WWII started? How were the Allies meant
to know what was going on in these places so early? And even when they
found out, what, they're meant to just bomb the crap out of these
places with complete disregard to the innocent people inside?

Quite oftens things which seem like someone having a hidden
agenda or are being lazy AREN'T because of that- they're simply because
you don't have the full picture of a full understanding of the factors!

I admit when I think back I dont have a full mental picture, but from
what I remeber they really didn't do much more than wag their finger at
the nazis.

I would blame the German public more than the outside world, but it
could be argued that anyone who wanted to do somthing didn't because
they would have ended up with the people they wanted to save.

What is there to discuss? It was arguably the worst tragedy in modern history.

As I received an extremely liberal education wherein the discussion of differences between groups was unacceptable, it was not until I entered high school (!) that I first noticed that people were differentiating 'Jews' from 'white people'. Honestly, anti-semetic stereotypes still don't make sense to me; I haven't the slightest idea as to why Jews have been singled out for hate and oppression not just once or in specific situations, but constantly throughout Western history.

Errrr

They didn't know, American joined the war late, the Red Army was on the
run and Europe was in the grip of fascism. Saying they didn't do
anything ignores just about every context the whole dismal affair was
set in.

Let alone the fact the final solution was implemented until late 1941 at the earliest, arguably the height of Axis power.

No-one is to "blame" DrGlass, that's completely the wrong way of approaching the event.

What is there to discuss? It was arguably the worst tragedy in modern history.

As I received an extremely liberal education wherein the discussion
of differences between groups was unacceptable, it was not until I
entered high school (!) that I first noticed that people were
differentiating 'Jews' from 'white people'. Honestly, anti-semetic
stereotypes still don't make sense to me; I haven't the slightest idea
as to why Jews have been singled out for hate and oppression not just
once or in specific situations, but constantly throughout Western
history.

It's ingrained in the culture. You can read documents dating back
thousands of years detailing how Jews are often portrayed as
evil/tight/moneybags etc. Go read The Merchant of Venice for a good
example :smile:

And yeah, I know a lot of Jews died, but that's my point proved -
no-one particularly cares to mention the other groups that were
persecuted..

Also it is a little sad when Jews, under the hand of suffering for
thousands of years, learn by their demons and indefensibly supress the
people of Palestine. Is that excusable, just because of the Holocaust.

Lot of double standards TBH.

i don't have much to say about it, my mom just asked me to read a book
on it, which i did yesterday. i think that in light of the "bombing
inocennt people" thing, what about the adom bombs on the japense? tell
me that was wrong... tell me that you don't have to take extreme
measures to stop horrible things... tell me that even if your mom was
killed by some group, and they were after the rest of your family, you
would wait until all the "inoccent" people were out before you freakin
blew the place apart. my point being, inoccent people will die, they
always will die, they always HAVE died. it's not going to stop just
becuase we all want it too, it's going to happen! also, there are
people in this world that actually do the evil that happens, a lot of
people think that the whole holocaust (sorry if i spelled it wrong) was
made up by the jews so that people would pity them... but like Gwil
said, that's not possible becuase it happened to other "groups". I'm
mormon, and mormons were freely killed when the church was reorganized,
i don't think about it too much, except that being in amercia and
wanting to worship whoever we please, wasn't true. it may be now, but
people are still made fun of etc. becuase of there beiliefs. i can
understand the whole thing a little, but becuase i wasn't alive then, i
can't exactly relate to what it was like. i'm sorry guys, i get really
riled up about things like this

I think its quite obvious how horrible the Holocaust was, and that not
much more really needs to be said. Gwil's right in that it wasn't just
the Jewish people who were persecuted by the Nazi's, but a whole swag
of "inferior" minorities were also targeted in an effort to create a
pure aryan race free of imperfection and weakness. The world also
learnt its lesson about such people like Hitler, which is why the UN
and Nato became involved in Bosnia when they found out about ethnic
cleansing.