Map Critiques.

I have been spending days just reading through the site. Quite an undertaking I assure you. I have just completed most all the tutorials, but fear not, I absorbed almost none of them, so a reread is most definitely in my future plans. I however have noticed some interesting critiquing in the maps section. How does one go about being an official Snarkpit critique writer? I think I could learn almost as much about mapping by noting the mistakes others make and would really like to get into such a trade. Assuming of course, that being a critiquer is not taboo till you meet a certain requirement.

Any insights on the subject?

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There is no history until something happens, then there is.

There is no official requirement to write critiques for maps, but it's expected that the critiquer has some experience in mapping and has made a few maps.

If the experience is lacking, it'll become quite evident quickly. You have to earn respect at the Pit by making quality maps.

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"The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return." -- Toulouse-Lautre, Moulin Rouge

Its not really something we have in an "official" sense. Anybody is
welcome to critique another's map. Some of us (Orph being a prime
example) have a reputation for giving in depth critiques and so
occasionally people might ask for them particular to give feedback, but
in most cases people will just post their level in the maps forum and
appreciate anybody that shares their thoughts. If the mood takes you,
when somebody posts their work in progress level on the forums (or just
on the main site), download it, give it a run around, take a few notes
and screenshots, and post it all together on the forums. The maker of
the level will almost always appreciate your critique (provided you are
fair - don't slam things unnecessarily, give constructive critcism and
try to pick out some positives), regardless of your level of ability or
your snarkpit membership number :smile:
Of course satchmo does have a point about earning respect by proving
your ability, and if you are known your comments might hold more
weight, but I don't think that means newcomers' opinions aren't worth
hearing.

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[img]http://card.mygamercard.net/sig/Default/reno84.png[/img]
Designer @ Haiku Interactive | ReNo-vation.net

You mean, you have to be able to make them only? I cannot know a quality map by simply playing it?

I might not know what goes into making a wall, but I should be able to figure out if that wall belongs or not.

Maybe thats why some of the critiques are failing to grab the authors. You are forgetting the fact that if you run into a wall that doesn't belong even a non mapper would recognize it.

I suppose I better make something then.

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There is no history until something happens, then there is.

I have just completed most all the tutorials, but fear not, I
absorbed almost none of them, so a reread is most definitely in my
future plans.

I don't think there's any need to torture yourself like that :smile: .
Just open the editor and have fun but most importantly explore and
experiment. When you come across something you just can't figure out,
then look-up a tutorial. If you read them all like a novel then you can
be sure you won't rememeber a thing when you're done.

its not all about making maps its about having a good understanding of the theme, how well its played and knowing about environments. you could not have a clue how to make a map but being able to pick out the details, understand the theme, observe the environments and make judgements based on what you've seen you dont need to be any good a mapping, though it does help.

for example, an architect could know nothing about mapping but would still be able to give a damn good critique on how a building is laid out or looks. same goes for a landscaper or a furnisher. it is good to have a know on these subjects to be a good critiquer but it isnt a necessity. for me its all about how the map looks. i dont really care about playablity, its how good the environments look. ive done reading on landscaping and archtecture and have a basic understanding of such things (remember basic only, i dont claim to have a true omniscience of landscaping) and it is good to know these things.

educated = better maps

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Bullet Control: $5000 for a bullet.
"I would blow your f**king head off! ...if I could afford it. I'm gonna get another job, start saving some money... then you a dead man!"

I can see your point on which knowing how to map may provide you with knowledge that pertains to construction. I fail however to see how not knowing how to map would handicap you in a critique.

As I tried hopelessly to explain, that is a wall were needed, then a non mapper would know it just as well as a mapper would. Concealment and such would dictate certain fundamental applications. I know its a game, so reality aside, damned few are gonna be safe ducking behind a crate in an HL map, but if the crate belonged and was missing, then a non mapper would recognize this and be able to say "Put a crate here"

I may not know how to create a teleporter, but I would know that if I wanted to get from "A" to "B" and it would enhance the game play, then I could suggest "You know, a teleporter by that tree would be a great spot to port you up to that ledge back there"

I may be way off base, but thats got to be something of the truth.

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There is no history until something happens, then there is.

Underdog said:
I can see your point on which knowing how to map may provide you with knowledge that pertains to construction. I fail however to see how not knowing how to map would handicap you in a critique.

As I tried hopelessly to explain, that is a wall were needed, then a non mapper would know it just as well as a mapper would. Concealment and such would dictate certain fundamental applications. I know its a game, so reality aside, damned few are gonna be safe ducking behind a crate in an HL map, but if the crate belonged and was missing, then a non mapper would recognize this and be able to say "Put a crate here"

I may not know how to create a teleporter, but I would know that if I wanted to get from "A" to "B" and it would enhance the game play, then I could suggest "You know, a teleporter by that tree would be a great spot to port you up to that ledge back there"

I may be way off base, but thats got to be something of the truth.

exactly my point.

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Bullet Control: $5000 for a bullet.
"I would blow your f**king head off! ...if I could afford it. I'm gonna get another job, start saving some money... then you a dead man!"

"exactly my point."

Which part, my being off base or the rest?

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There is no history until something happens, then there is.

the part about having no experience but being able to understand what is needed and what not is needed in a HL2 environment. not everyone is so good at this, i think it is a skill.

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Bullet Control: $5000 for a bullet.
"I would blow your f**king head off! ...if I could afford it. I'm gonna get another job, start saving some money... then you a dead man!"

I am still a bit confused about this but lets assume for the moment that I want to make a complete fool out of myself. How would I post a critique here? Some that I read looked a bit complex. I assume that just taking the screen shot is the first step, but how do I post them?

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There is no history until something happens, then there is.

to post relevant critiques you must first play the map. find a map, download it, play it and then post your opinion either in its topic in the maps forum or where the map is in the maps section.

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Bullet Control: $5000 for a bullet.
"I would blow your f**king head off! ...if I could afford it. I'm gonna get another job, start saving some money... then you a dead man!"

"Groans softly, and tries again"

How do I post screens. I figured that I'd have to acquire the map, then play it already. I didn't figure that I would have to use ESP to get the pointers from them after all.

Like I tried to say. Some of those critiques look professionally done. The pictures all line up and such. Whats the HTML codes? I assume that you need some sort of access to post screens.

Thats my question, not the actual acquiring of the maps.

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There is no history until something happens, then there is.

If you're unsure where to start with critiquing, try reviewing a few finished maps first. That should help train your eye for what's good and bad - which you can then use to give critical (and constructive) feedback on an incomplete map.

Don't look for just what's bad about a map - look for the aspects that could make it great with a few tweaks etc. :smile:

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You Got To Get Through What You've Got To Go Through To Get What You Want But You Got To Know What You Want To Get Through What You Got To Go Through

Reviews? what good is a review? The opportunity to alter anything significant has passed by that time. Besides, critiques are intended to be opinions, reviews would be less opinion and more certainty. What I am trying weakly to say is, a critique could lead to a better map before its released, a review would not help but in some future way. Also, I think to be certain enough to write a review would require a bit more skill than a simple critique.

I do however appreciate your confidence in me. I assume you thought that I could do a review. That says a lot for your attitude.

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There is no history until something happens, then there is.

this is what we mean by critique, giving opinions on a map to influence the creators future productions. as for screenshots from a critiquer, i have never seen it done but that is a good idea. if that is what you mean because i dont quite understand what you mean about 'posting screens'.

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Bullet Control: $5000 for a bullet.
"I would blow your f**king head off! ...if I could afford it. I'm gonna get another job, start saving some money... then you a dead man!"

Then I feel we both need to wait for someone who knows. This thread is growing with replies not relevant to my inquiry.

No offense, I am just not learning "how". Perhaps someone will take mercy on us both, and either shoot us in the heads, or open them and insert the required knowledge. :smile:

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There is no history until something happens, then there is.

are we on the same wavelength about the word 'critique'?

cri?tique (kri-tek)
n.

• A critical review or commentary, especially one dealing with works of art or literature.
• A critical discussion of a specified topic.
• The art of criticism.

i understood your question as 'i want to know how to post constructive critism about a map with screenshots'

if i have misunderstood your inquiry then please rephrase.

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Bullet Control: $5000 for a bullet.
"I would blow your f**king head off! ...if I could afford it. I'm gonna get another job, start saving some money... then you a dead man!"

How do you make these?

http://www.snarkpit.net/pits/orpheus/critiques/bocaburgers/index.html

I just chose this one at random cause it was one of the most recent. I have seen many others done, differently and similarly represented.

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There is no history until something happens, then there is.

go to http://www.ornj.net/

its a web album and on that website you can download it. putting it on the snarkpit though, ill try and figure that out just now.

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Bullet Control: $5000 for a bullet.
"I would blow your f**king head off! ...if I could afford it. I'm gonna get another job, start saving some money... then you a dead man!"

Finished maps have a "offical" review option that you can write and submit to the admins.

As for a critique all you need is to give your opinion of a map you've
played. This is done on the map forum as I'm sure you've
seen. Pictures are only used to aid you, because a picture is far
better than 45 words trying to explain where the place is in the
map. You will need to find a free web server where you can upload
pictures, I use Photobucket.com but there are quite a few out there.

As for skills, you dont need them to write a critique. Most
anyone can tell you want looks nice and gamers can tell you want plays
well. Yet, mappers can give deeper insight into how or what to
change to fix a problem. Mappers can pick out problems that may
affect performance, and this is why I think skilled mappers make better
for critiques. The more you've mapped the more problems you have
run into and solved, so your better prepared to help with other
people's maps.

For instance, I was reviewing a map and found that the fps seemed a
little bit high. Turns out the whole map was inside a huge
skybox, so the engin was drawing the underside of the map. There
were also many textures that the player couldn't see, I knew from
mapping for so long that in the end it would be best to slap some
nodraw textures on these faces.

We also critique, maybe 90% of maps, by playing on them solo. You
have to really be a game player to guess at gameplay. I'd say
that critiques at the snarkpit almost never focus on gameplay untill
late in the map's life. Though there are some maps (like my
dm_cliff) that was shot down becuase of gameplay problems.

Dont be discuraged though, so of the best reviews are done by lesser
skilled mappers. oh, and always be honest! No matter how
mad or upset people get give them the honest truth. If it sucks
ass tell them, as long as you can tell them why. soft critiques
dont help anyone.

OK, so I need a host. I think I can manage that. Perhaps by the weekend I will have it.

Thanks to all. I will try to be more concise with my next round of questions.

This thread sure got long considering all I needed was "host" and a format.

Perhaps my inability to convey is telling me something.

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There is no history until something happens, then there is.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Underdog</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>How do you make these?

http://www.snarkpit.net/pits/orpheus/critiques/bocaburgers/index.html

I just chose this one at random cause it was one of the most recent. I have seen many others done, differently and similarly represented.

</DIV></DIV>
when you submit a map you can specify an image URL. you make a web album then specify its URL in the appropriate area. hope thats finally answered your question!

as i said before you can make a web album at http://www.ornj.net/

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Bullet Control: $5000 for a bullet.
"I would blow your f**king head off! ...if I could afford it. I'm gonna get another job, start saving some money... then you a dead man!"

Perhaps my inability to convey is telling me something.

You did fine, you wanted to be very clear on the answer and if anything, other people will find this thread and learn from it.

I searched a bit, to my knowledge no one asked exactly the same question. I am looking at the source of a few of these pages and I cannot see what code is used. Does Snarkpit not use HTML for its images?

Say, I have a screen, I have it uploaded to some host and want to display it here. what <img><url> tags are used? I think thats about my last question. In fact, its really what I needed from square one,but didn't know it till now.

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There is no history until something happens, then there is.

when you go to 'new reply' there is a little picture of a mountain of something on the taskbar above where you write next to the 'having trouble posting?' message. click it and a small window should come up with the ability to write the URL of the place where you hosted the image.

i know that isnt very clear but i hope it helps!

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Bullet Control: $5000 for a bullet.
"I would blow your f**king head off! ...if I could afford it. I'm gonna get another job, start saving some money... then you a dead man!"

Snark pit uses BBCode, you can see a link to its info to the left of the reply box.

Ahh, thanks. I am beginning to see way to many yellow links on this site. Not to many for the site, to many for me. I think I reached saturation 2 days ago. Never noticed that link.

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There is no history until something happens, then there is.