Some Ways To Reduce Compile Time

Hey all

The people out there includes me, i really want pro's to list many ways
to reduce compile time, and the ways should really work...

To list the ways, please do as follows:

Ways To Reduce Compile Time:


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Bad stuff that may affect compile time, and how to avoid it:


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Please List as many ways as you can, lots of people really need help
with this, from avoiding large brushes to the misuse of hint brushes,
just list all you know, and which you tried and DID actually WORK

Thank you all

-Dark|Masta

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.::Dark|Masta::. - One name. One legend.

Well, let me explain something first of all. Compiling time shouldn't be a concern really, since the end product map is what needs to run fast. The more you get done in the compile stage the less that has to be done in realtime ... the faster it runs.

But, there are things that are bad for both compile time and run time: bad vis blocking. Cutting up brushes that create tons of planes that aren't used more than once. Improperly cutting leafs and portals.

That's pretty much it as far as I know. If you follow most common mapping rules and use everything properly ... you wont have problems. However, you should know that HL2 compile times are large even if you do everything in a proper manner .. it's just big.

But, as for what you're asking ... it's already been covered millions of times. I'm not sure how many times hint brushes can be explained, but they work like they do in HL1 ... as for portal view or whatever, they're used for small openings, completley surrounded.

Other then that, it's just a matter of making brushes line up, and if they don't making them entities. Or something as such ...

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

Yeah i know this part, but, compiling for more than 2 hours for a small map is
really bad...thats why i really need help, and im sure there are others
with the same problem...

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.::Dark|Masta::. - One name. One legend.

I find HL2 compile times not that bad so far. Well, the lighting part
takes it's time and that's about it. What I do now is building rough
architecture only and the rest is either a func_detail, a displacement
map or a model. This goes well for outdoor or cave-alike maps: vis
times are really low.

Of course, other types of maps that feature more architectural detail
would have larger vis times and more complex results, but using models
for details a lot and func_detailing oddly angled stuff goes a long way
already. I haven't even found hint brushes that usefull but for a very
few situations.

Can you show us that map, or post some screenshots of characteristic
area's or an overview perhaps? Maps tend to differ a lot, you know... :wink:

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Create-ivity - a game development blog

Yeah i know this part, but, compiling for more than 2 hours for a small map is
really bad...thats why i really need help, and im sure there are others
with the same problem...

2 hours :evilgrin: ek: I'm astounded! What does it take? VIS? My thought so. If
you need optimization... contact me... :biggrin: :smile: You know normal VIS
shouldn't take longer than a couple of seconds... (except for very big
and very complex maps...)

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HL2 tutorials 'n' stuff: http://madedog.pri.ee
217.159.236.34:27050 - CSS Server - Clean | koffer.ee

YEAH EXACTLY, i dont know what im screwing in my map to make it compile for a long time, but maybe this maybe the problem ??

In the 3d skybox, i added a floor\brush in thw whole skybox...like this :

<div style="text-align: center;">

[skycamera]

</div>

|
|

|
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|_____________________________Floor\brush____________________________|

May this cause time to compile ?? i made it func_detail and it still
compiles for a long time, ill try removing it and then ill see...

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.::Dark|Masta::. - One name. One legend.

Oh yeah, for who asked for some screens, here they are..:

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1 ... ... ... Takes about 1 hour and 30 min to compile...

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Over View of the map, the big black box is the start of the map, and
then you teleport to your house, i made as if you start in a dream then
wake up at home and so on...

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2 ... ... ... Takes about more than 2 hours to compile...

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2 is smaller than 1, yet it compiles more than 2 hours...sucks badly

If screens didnt help i can post the vmf ??

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.::Dark|Masta::. - One name. One legend.

Oh my GOD !! SOmething So amazing just happened, i dont know exactly
how but i recall changing some stuff like roofs and stuff to
func_detail, and i added 2 hint brushes in 2 corners and 2 area
portals, and guess what?? it took me 10 minutes to compile, it isnt the
best time, but its much better than compiling FOR MORE THAN 2 HOURS !!
Amazing, wow lol, im so happy, hehe, i was going to quit because of
the compile thing, but now im back to business :biggrin:

-DArk|MAsta

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.::Dark|Masta::. - One name. One legend.

rofl... I can optimize your map for you if you wish... both of them...
it actually takes lot more than only roofs to change into func_detail
and seeing you could actually use occluders someplace...

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HL2 tutorials 'n' stuff: http://madedog.pri.ee
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http://www.student.kun.nl/rvanhoorn/Optimization.htm

this'll help.

btw very nice map

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Frodo Greenman
www.halfwit-2.com

Its ok madedog, if you can tell me what to optimize more further, please tell me, i like to learn doing it myself :biggrin:

And hey MeanDroneFrog thanks for the site, saved me some minutes hehe,
THank you all anyway, i guess whats in that site says everything i need
to reduce lag...thanks :biggrin:

http://www.student.kun.nl/rvanhoorn/Optimization.htm

VERY RECOMMENDED ^^

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.::Dark|Masta::. - One name. One legend.

Well I don't know WHAT to optimize more further as I haven't seen the
VMF and I can't recommend... but from the pictures I can see lots of
things to be converted into func_details and where to set off hint
brushes :smile:

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HL2 tutorials 'n' stuff: http://madedog.pri.ee
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I have to agree that HL2 compile times are long. My map is at about 8 hours to compile at this stage, and I'm only about 80% done with the architecture. True I have'nt begun optimizing yet, but I still manage to maintain a respectable 60 FPS in the heaviest trafficked areas. I imagine it will improve if I use optimization techniques better, although I doubt compile times will be reduced by much.

How long does your RAD take, Juim?

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HL2 tutorials 'n' stuff: http://madedog.pri.ee
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Less than half an hour, its the vis which takes 7 hours and 47 minutes.

damn! your maps needs some heavy optimization! I take that you have a lazy man skybox? You want me to optimize the map? :biggrin:

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HL2 tutorials 'n' stuff: http://madedog.pri.ee
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No, they're just complicated. Seriously. Searching and doing vector calculations and crap is VERY time consuming.

A good example of how long VIS can take is the Lost Coast compile times ... 42 minutes on a computer farm of what? 23 computers?

Visual matrices, leafs, portals, all that jazz are complicated and they take a long time to calculate: end of story. Of course, you can always make ways of limiting the planes, leafs, and all that stuff ... but the end product map is usually close to the same ... so what's the use of the extra effort when all you get is a longer compile time?

You guys never would have lasted when using Fortran: 8 Hours compile time ... minimum. You had to come back the next day and find out if you had errors. (Not that I've ever used Fortran or any of it's versions)

But. The point is ... compile times don't matter ... by themselves. In HL1 however, they were pretty closely linked to how well your map will run in game. That isn't true anymore.

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

for a second there Crono, i actually thought that you'd posted that in the wrong thread. :smile:

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i eat paint

One thing I've learned after four years of this field: Everything that is between math and computer science is connected to such a huge degree that they don't even seem like different fields anymore. I think the differences come out by what you use them for and not really what you know exactly.

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

You guys never would have lasted when using Fortran: 8 Hours compile
time ... minimum. You had to come back the next day and find out if you
had errors. (Not that I've ever used Fortran or any of it's versions)

And didn't you have to do a printout of the memory when there were
errors, to study it back home so another programmer could try his
program that day? :smile:

Horrible...

Most time seems to come from either vis or rad, and vis is good to keep
down when you use func_details and models for detail a lot instead of
cluttering the world brushes with all sorts of tiny stuff.

rad times are kept down a little by decreasing your lightmaps quality.
This saves filesize as well. Only do so for faces that have very equal
lighting, or aren't really seen up-close by the player, as the edge
between bright and dark area's will get very rough on those faces.

Besides that... patience?

For me, it helps greatly to build the rough outlines of my level,
ingnoring details somewhat so I can check if the layout plays well.
This is also often fast to compile, so it gives you a good impression
of what the map will be like in the end. You can then start detailing
area's seperately if you wish using cordon compiling...

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Create-ivity - a game development blog

Whats the difference between cordon compiling and hammer's compiling ?!

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.::Dark|Masta::. - One name. One legend.

"Cordon" means making a box, especially recommended when working with
small details on a HUGE map, anything outside is no longer displayed.
Cordon compiling is just leaving the cordon on and letting it compile.
Thus you can help view and test smaller area in your map, which helps a
lot.

Crono, 42 minutes with 23 computer server farm, that's EVERYTHING taken
together, BSP, VIS and RAD, and afaik, RAD was the one taking 40
minutes! So don't talk about things you do not know, VIS takes no
longer than perhaps a minute or so.

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HL2 tutorials 'n' stuff: http://madedog.pri.ee
217.159.236.34:27050 - CSS Server - Clean | koffer.ee

Madedog said:
VIS takes no longer than perhaps a minute or so.

the only vis that i've had that took less than a minute, was vis that was run on a leaky map.

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i eat paint

It depends on the machine youre compiling on.

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"If you talk at all during this lesson, you have detention. Do you understand?"

• My yr11 Economics teacher

Oh hey guys, i was looking through a decompiled map, and i saw that
lots of parts of the map had skip textured blocks around some rooms and
stuff, why is that??

And that 2 hint brushes in the middle of the map, one at the middle and another

a bit lower...

And the top was hint textures, and under and all other sides are skip, is that ok to do to anymap >??

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.::Dark|Masta::. - One name. One legend.

Dark|Killer said:
And the top was hint textures, and under and all other sides are skip, is that ok to do to anymap >??

that's the way to use hint brushes. not necessarely the top side, but only one side should be textured with hint, the rest should be textured with skip. search for tutorials on hint brushes, they'll help you alot.

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These words are my diaries screaming out loud

BlisTer said:
......... but only one side should be textured with hint, the rest should be textured with skip.

not quite. you're not restricted to having the hint texture on only one face of a brush. you can use it on as many faces as is suitable for the circumstances, and the other faces get textured with skip.

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i eat paint

Well, a hint brush generates an extra vis leaf... so basically it is
perfectly valid to create a box, each side covered with hint, it just
creates an additional vis leaf in its boundaries. Remember - hint brush
needs to reach from one wall to another. Otherwise it has no effect.

As I said, SKIP faces are completely skipped by the compiler and the
engine, they do not exist anymore. They are only useful in hammer,
which you can use to rotate your models. You do know how difficult it
is to rotate a model perfectly? Oh yeah, but with SKIP brushes you can
first surround your brush and that's how you can align them perfectly
to another model or edge. It is just easier.

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HL2 tutorials 'n' stuff: http://madedog.pri.ee
217.159.236.34:27050 - CSS Server - Clean | koffer.ee

To clear something up first: Its not "lag" (maps dont have lag, they
have poor FPS-frames per second), Lag implies there is something thats
causing the server to slow down and shoot your ping time way up (like
trains tend to raise ping times for many people, but not necicerily
decreasing Frames per second). Now as for optimization of polygons
thats what you want to do.

I suggest reading that optimization tutorial (already done).

Texture the surfaces that the player wont see with nodraw (I saw a few
surfaces in those screen shots that it could have been done on)

And type +showbudget. This is a readout of what the engine is doing, if
there is a problem with dynamic lights, then look into those
point_spotlights. If there is a problem with too many models being
rendered, look into func_occluder. If There are too many world polys
being rendered, look into hint brushes and area portals (only use area
portals if YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING!)

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Posting And You

Vis taking longer than a minute? My current map, Mudanchee, compiles in
7 minutes - 5 or 6 of them taken up by rad. Vis is pretty quick
there... :smile:

Personally, I think hint brushes and that sort of manual optimization
things are only usefull after you've pinpointed a problem location.
Check the map with mat_wireframe 1 to look for such area's where too
much is being drawn for your taste. Then go and apply such tricks.

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Create-ivity - a game development blog

Taken from the fact stated above, if VIS takes more time than 20
seconds on a normal map (as far as it has occurred to me) and you have
a bit low FPS, you'll gonna need optimization. I understand heavily
packed maps taking longer but if they have good FPS and budget (also, a
good habit is to use glview to check out the vis leafs - remember, the
clearer the view (the lesser the lines), the better the optimization
is. A clear part is what occluders and areaportals give. Areaportals
are also a good practice, especially because they divide VIS leafs so
as long as you have a good areaportal, you need not to worry about the
HINT brush that should be somewhere in the same place (doorway or
a window for instance).

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HL2 tutorials 'n' stuff: http://madedog.pri.ee
217.159.236.34:27050 - CSS Server - Clean | koffer.ee

THank you all for your replies, your so helpful, now my compile time
dropped to 5-8 mintutes, for now, i wont touch it anymore, im done with
it, i have to continue doing the second part of the map, part 2,
becuase of you all, i finished part 1 :biggrin:

IM doing a small map, its for nothing actually, i was just bored and
felt like doing a gloomy map, so i tested the lights, and areaportals,
worked fine...i dont want to play with hint brushes at the
moment, i think i screw thing up alot with that :biggrin:

Anyway, Just keep posting here any problems at compiling or anything :biggrin: and any further problems i have i will post it here :biggrin:

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.::Dark|Masta::. - One name. One legend.

There are occasions you can get totally out without any HINT brushes whatsoever.

They are only used when you want to cut down some leafs and especially
when you manage to create a real complex area somewhere... which
generates lots of leafs.

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HL2 tutorials 'n' stuff: http://madedog.pri.ee
217.159.236.34:27050 - CSS Server - Clean | koffer.ee

Sounds like the problem's been solved, but I thought I'd add my 2 cents.

This thread...
http://www.hl2world.com/bbs/an-announcement-about-vvis-times-vt31475.html
..saved my soul from the eternal compiling pit of hellfire and vvis.

Thanks dude, the site helps too, and yeah the problem is sovled, but
any suggestion or complaints about compiling can be posted here :biggrin:

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.::Dark|Masta::. - One name. One legend.

fishy said:
you're not restricted to having the hint texture on only one face of a brush. you can use it on as many faces as is suitable for the circumstances, and the other faces get textured with skip.

true, but the only example i can think of (with simple geometry hint brushes) where this would be advantageous is a room with a pillar in the middle and an entrance of the same width as that pillar. in other cases it would break up visleafs unnecessary. mm yeah a few farfetched examples spring to mind too now :smile: but you're right, it's not a necessity. just optimal in most situations.

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These words are my diaries screaming out loud

i have the sam poblem of dark killer but i need AN OUT DOOR HINT BRUSH NOT INDOOR i need help how to do a hint brush

ffs this has been discussed in this very topic! go and read the optimization tutorial thats link is given here!

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HL2 tutorials 'n' stuff: http://madedog.pri.ee
217.159.236.34:27050 - CSS Server - Clean | koffer.ee