Norway outlaws i-tunes

http://blogs.pcworld.com/digitalworld/archives/2007/01/norway_outlaws.html

The crux of the issue is that the Fairplay DRM that is at the heart of the iTunes/iPod universe doesn't work with anything else, meaning that if you want access to the cast iTunes library, you have to buy an iPod. That didn't sit well with the Norwegian Consumer Council, the body that kicked the whole thing off by filing a complaint with Norway's consumer ombudsman. France and Germany have also joined in on the action.

Not sure how reliable the news source is, but the idea is pretty interesting none the less!

www.defectivebydesign.org

DRM is a crime.

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:: Forceflow.be :: Nuclear Dawn developer

Was about time.

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Why snark works.

couldn't have said it better myself reaper

EDIT: i believe i heard somewhere that someone made a hack to bypass that though?

Hold up a sec, while I work up a tear. So, you have to buy an Ipod, to listen to... wait for it.... Itunes.

Go figure.

As the world comes crashing down.

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The best things in life, aren't things.

i heard they were going to outlaw computer games too, because you need a computer to play them.

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i eat paint

It's more like selling bread that can only be sliced with an Apple-iKnife.

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Why snark works.

reaper47 said:
It's more like selling bread that can only be sliced with an Apple-iKnife.

Is it? so Ipod has their own recording studio and has music with the Itune banner? Tell me that Itunes are unique and end my misery.

Somehow I feel that this is just a case of "Members only" syndrome.

I am also betting that the music that is unavailable is available elsewhere. People aren't bitching about the machine, just their lack of access to it without buying the rights.

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The best things in life, aren't things.

You can easily listen to pirated or non-iTunes MP3s on an iPod. That's not the problem.

But encoding all the music files from iTunes as iPod only is obviously asshole-ish. Imagine I buy 50 Britney Spears (or Justin Timberlake, depending on your musical preferences) songs from iTunes. My iPod breaks, is outdated, whatever and I decide to buy a new MP3 player not supported by Apple. I can't listen to my beautiful Britney Spears songs anymore. How stupid is that?

I don't know how this works in reality (I avoided iTunes from the beginning, mainly because of instinct) but there's something fundamentally flawed with this logic.

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Why snark works.

Then it seems to me you have two options:

1) don't buy Ipod products.
2) avoid them until the bugs are worked out.

The idea that they have a flaw, and you buy one anyway in the hopes that you'll get the chance to gripe about them is fundamentally flawed. I dunno about anyone else, but how freaking strange is that? You buy it knowing its got issues. Is one in denial about this and thinks "I bought it, I have rights"

I dunno. I am not really into music enough to care so I am a bit underwhelmed by this whole thing. To me, its no more important than the doggy turd in the neighbors yard three houses down.

In other words, I cannot have a vote. I do not see a problem, but that doesn't mean that one isn't there. It just strikes me wrong to bitch, knowing the issues exist before purchasing. :sad:

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The best things in life, aren't things.

You buy it knowing its got issues.

Well, I didn't. It's not that they mention it in their stylish commercials (or anywhere else it would be easy to look up for that matter).

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Why snark works.

Actually the options are much simpler

1) DON'T BUY THROUGH iTUNES!

iTunes is bulls**t anyways, you're paying fullprice for a lossy format. I've never bought through iTunes, so I'll never have a problem. Download it or buy the CD ffs, just quit the bitching.

Bitching? You mean, like, "complaining about a monopolistic piece of software"?

This isn't about the iPod, it's about iTunes. I like the iPod. I never used iTunes.

I don't understand how people can get so annoyed over others complaining about a product? It's not that Apple is some kind of sympathetic, little company that needs your support. I fully agree with Norway.

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Why snark works.

reaper47 said:
I don't understand how people can get so annoyed over others complaining about a product? It's not that .

If I sound like I'm annoyed, I apologize. My intention is only to comprehend. It sounds like I am opposed to what you say, but its only because the definitions you have given have no correlation in my life except those I would avoid buying.

This is how it sounds to me. You bought a brand new EXPENSIVE set of wheels for your Ford car. They cost you bunches. You wrecked your car and buy another Ford. But the wheels won't fit.

What do you do now? Complain because the store you bought them from didn't tell you that they only fit a specific bolt pattern?

IMO, its a simple case of not checking into a new type of product. If they kept the information from you, was that information available through another medium? IE Google search.

Anyway, I am not annoyed at you.

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The best things in life, aren't things.

I meant French Toast's complaint about bitching. :biggrin:

This is a smart comparison, Orpheus. Made me think, actually.

I don't know about Fords but it sounds quite monopolistic, also.

I think you'd agree that it's an unfair tactic by the company that creates an artificial "value" that doesn't really exist. Are the Ford bolts better than a standard bolts (note that standards are much easier for MP3s than for bolts)? No. It's only there to force the customer to buy new ones when the old ones are just as good. You're not paying for a value, you're paying because the company forces you to.

Well, I don't know about Ford wheels. But I know that MP3s (or AACs) have completely artificial locks that have no purpose whatsoever except for forcing customers to buy Apple. It's not even about protecting the copyright for the musicians (that's another topic).

It's true, as a simple guy all you can do is ask the (probably incompetent) salesman or search the internets before you buy. But a country can come up with laws for the company just like it can come up with laws for people (don't share MP3s or go to jail!!!1).

Good thing, IMO. It forces companies to invest in service and innovation rather than sitting back and forcing people to buy all the same parts over and over again.

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Why snark works.

More like this:
You buy a CD from sony, except it won't play in your panasonic CD player - you need to buy a cd player from Sony.

You can imagine it would get pretty ridiculous if that happened with CD's. You'd have to buy a new CD player for each brand that makes CD's. A Sony CD player to play Sony CD's, A Toshiba CD player to play Toshiba CD's, a Panasonic CD player to play Panasonic CD's, etc...

The thing is, thats exactly what is happening with the online music/mp3 player business. It's about time someone put a stop to it.

EDIT: Also, the reason why people don't get outraged when their tires don't fit on different cars is because in that case there is a solid technical reason why the tires can't work with all models. In the mp3 case, there is no such technical reason, so it is simply vendor lock-in.

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http://maze5.net

mazemaster said:
More like this:
You buy a CD from sony, except it won't play in your panasonic CD player - you need to buy a cd player from Sony.

You can imagine it would get pretty ridiculous if that happened with CD's. You'd have to buy a new CD player for each brand that makes CD's. A Sony CD player to play Sony CD's, A Toshiba CD player to play Toshiba CD's, a Panasonic CD player to play Panasonic CD's, etc...

.

Now I am confused because the premise doesn't fit. The option of music is available elsewhere. Monopolizing CD's would seriously limit sales as well. The ONLY way it would work is if the CD manufacturing corporations got in league with the player corporations to corner the market.

Ipod on the other had, hasn't monopolized anything. They are only restricting access, which in turn restricts their market of sales.

I don't see the correlation Nick. Sorry.
However, my wheel one fits, in so far as the explanation I mentioned. It doesn't exactly fit every example though but I couldn't come up with one we all could understand. We all need wheels. (Do not confuse wheels with tires. They are two totally different parts for auto's)

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The best things in life, aren't things.

The premise fits very well, actually... now I'm confused. Why should any kind music have a lock to only play on a specific player? I do doubt, actually, that this tactic limits sales. Apple just advertised their iPod as a standard long time ago (and quite successfully) so it can get through with this tactic.

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Why snark works.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting reaper47</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>The premise fits very well, actually... now I'm confused. Why should any kind music have a lock to only play on a specific player? I do doubt, actually, that this tactic limits sales. Apple just advertised their iPod as a standard long time ago (and quite successfully) so it can get through with this tactic.</DIV></DIV>

Perhaps you should be asking why MP3's have the option instead of the music. It seems to me that Ipod is capitalizing on a method of music reproduction that until recently had no blocking methods. Perhaps its piracy policing, or the precursor of it.

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The best things in life, aren't things.

I believe that a good 90% of the music played on iPods is "pirated", if you will. Apple makes a lot of money with the hard- and software to play pirated music.

The day iPods can only play DRM-protected songs the sales would fall like a stone. Anti-piracy measures are a hypocritical argument from Apple's side.

Apple only cares about forcing iPod owners to buy another iPod for the next generation of players and not a product form another company. Even if it's better. That's just as unfair as pirating, even moreso if you ask me.

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Why snark works.

Well, I've taken up way to much time in this discussion considering I prolly know the least about it and nothing I could add would be of use.

I wish I could see your side of it though Reaper. Most here know my views on borrowed content, but I just cannot grasp the problem with Itune being an issue.

Sorry.

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The best things in life, aren't things.

More like this:
You buy a CD from sony, except it won't play in your panasonic CD player - you need to buy a cd player from Sony

Dude, quite giving Sony ideas.

The solution is revolution. That or it's "radio."

... I forgot the solution...

DRM is Direct Rectal Mutilation. all they are doing is trying to squeeze more money out of you. Any company that does this should be embargoed by all competent people to outwiegh the idiots who buy something like an iPod because of a flashy commercial of a dancing city-person.

I plan on embargoing all Apple products for as long as I live... I won't even install Quicktime on my computer. One of the reasons is becaus they are spearheading the "screw the consumer" movement that is gaining popularity in most american tech products.

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I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

The solution is revolution. That or it's "radio."
... I forgot the solution...
DRM is Direct Rectal Mutilation. all they are doing is trying to squeeze more money out of you. Any company that does this should be embargoed by all competent people to outwiegh the idiots who buy something like an iPod because of a flashy commercial of a dancing city-person.
I plan on embargoing all Apple products for as long as I live... I won't even install Quicktime on my computer. One of the reasons is becaus they are spearheading the "screw the consumer" movement that is gaining popularity in most american tech products.

Yet you use Microsoft products without a care in the world. What's up with that?

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

hardly :razz:

A good amount of us use linux i'm sure :razz: . The only problem with that is we're forced to use windows if we want to map, or if we want to run adobe photoshop, or 3dsmax.

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.else /me ~kill you
www.arclan.net

parakeet said:
A good amount of us use linux i'm sure

If it were a whopping 10 million souls, it would still be a small percentage of all the PC's currently running around the globe.

I think Adam proved his point with that one reply.

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The best things in life, aren't things.

Maybe when I get more time I'll tinker with a Linux kernel and have the balls most Open Source developers don't and just f**king reverse engineer the windows platform (APIs) and integrate it into my Freakin' Awesome Gaming OS. That's totally what I'll call it too. Then get a bunch of law suites because the name is not P-C.

...

Not really.

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

WINE

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http://maze5.net

I managed to get Hammer working under wine, but the 3d preview doesn't show up. Quark however, runs fine under linux+wine.

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:: Forceflow.be :: Nuclear Dawn developer

This is just a guess, but I would imagine it uses Direct 3D for the 3D view, which would mean you need WineX (now known as Cedega) to run that portion.

Wine only emulates the Windows API, but nothing in the DirectX API.
I would also guess that Quark uses Open GL for its 3D rendering.

This is all stipulation of course. But, taking that the founders of valve are ex-Microsoft employees, they'd probably use said company's product.

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

Can't get it working under cedega either.

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:: Forceflow.be :: Nuclear Dawn developer

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Crono</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>Yet you use Microsoft products without a care in the world. What's up with that?</DIV></DIV>
Actually, I use linux now. As much as possible.

Anyway, what you've said is like saying "you protest against pollution, yet you have no porblem breathing polluted air..."

There are other choices, like purified, bottled air, but like linux it's inconvenient as hell.

oh, and "Freakin' Awesome Gaming OS" is gonna be acronymed "FagOS" bad idea.

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I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

I'm well aware of the acronym it makes. As that post was a joke.

Microsoft's products aren't as predominant as say ... air. I mean, there ARE other alternatives to Windows that are far more realistic than finding something else to live on besides air. So, you don't really have a choice when it comes to air ... but regardless of that, they're not even comparable though analogy because they are completely different in the way they're managed and dealt with. Not to mention, Air is not a product that is sold and there aren't any DRM issues that arise with it.

In your comment you're so adamant about stopping things like this, but you still show support (even if it's unwilling) for a company that is one of the worst about these issues.

Linux isn't that hard to use. It's just got the issues of being completely open source that makes it a very crowded market. It takes more effort to choose which distribution is right for you than actually using any of them (besides Gentoo).

I still think, people should move away from calling all Operating Systems built on the Linux kernel, "Linux". It might help clear the confusion.

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

Vista... from what I heard so far it?s a flop. Or they don?t even need the positive hype anymore. :sad:

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Why snark works.

This is an important new "development" that I think most people ranting and raving here should check out.

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.