OK here is a new twist to an otherwise already tried and true method. Each of us in the past has seen a map, or many maps that we thought to ourselves, "I would have done it this way" or something similar.

This contest would be open ended, meaning no real time limit. It would be set in such a way that if participant #1 took a week, and #2 took a month, that neither would interfere with the other because the participants aren't competing against one another, only themselves.

The idea is (and I use this as an example for the moment) that Gwil thought he could improve Juims new map. With permission of course, since Juim would have to cough up the map for editing. Gwil sets himself the task of putting his money, where his mouth is.

When Gwil is done, he submits his new version for us to vote on. If he made enough of an improvement, or a sufficient amount of changes to warrant it being "Original" then he would win. (note: changes and improving aren't necessarilly the same thing!) If not, he could continue to alter the map till he succeeds, or settle for what he has created and moves on to his next project.

My question: Do you think this a good idea, and one we need to cultivate?

---

The best things in life, aren't things.

I think it sounds like a good idea.

Would we all be using the same base map yeah?

I personally vote no. Not because I think its a bad idea, but because its already been voted on and didn't go over to well.

My thinking is this: Someone like me took Apex and fixed/finished it. I made it better. Some would disagree but IMO, I made it better. Otherwise, the map would have been consigned to the nether regions of the hard drive of the doomed.

See, Someone might think that Agent Smiths map needs improved. (The dam map) They can, or could request Master Smith to cough up the map and then this someone could prove their mettle.

Another person might think they could improve another map. It would be up to both parties to swap the map from the original author to the person whom thinks it needs fixing.

I think in this way 2 things are gonna happen.

1) You will see how the original author partakes in his creativity. His secrets so to speak will be open.
2) You will either succeed because you have a desire to prove yourself, or you will fail. BUT, you will learn which you have. A successful outlook or a failed one.

My point is, as long as you have any map in mind, and the author releases the map to you, the sky is the limit on what might happen afterward.

Hope that made sense.

---

The best things in life, aren't things.

Sounds like mapper throwdown, and that sounds fun, and a good way to see mapping from a different angle maybe. I would feel like an ass though, rummaging around others' maps without ever releasing one myself =/

---

o

Baron von Snickers said:
. I would feel like an ass though, rummaging around others' maps without ever releasing one myself =/

Why?

In my first example, I chose Juim and Gwil. Juim because he has something recent, and it was in my mind, but Gwil because he has little released.

My thinking was, Juim might not mind, and Gwil knows I meant no harm so it was safe to use them as examples.

The point is, Gwil might not have enough time to ever finish a complete map but have more than enough time to restructure an existing one.

At least, its my hope to get people with little time to want to join.

Also, I know that there are maps out there that could be improved. There is always room for another version/outlook.

Look at it this way. I might do this too, and I have no HL2 maps under my belt either. I am more/less starting from scratch too.

Also, Since HL1 is still popular, some might feel more inclined reworking that engines maps. :smile:

---

The best things in life, aren't things.

The only problem i see is people being wary about put their maps up on the chopping board. I think it would work best if, well... "I Mr. blank request permission to rework your map Mr. blank #2."
The only prob then is people not wanting to insult someone els by suggesting their map is half baked. Of course this wouldn't affect me. seeing how my skills are pretty much at the bottom of there barrel hear.

I vote yes because of Orpheus posting a 'no'. (And not out of spite.)

If a mapper is stuck in a rut and doesn't know where to begin on a new project, this thing could get their creative juices flowing enough to start new projects or finish old ones.

---

Also change the texture of the dock. Docks are rarely tile. -Facepunch
As I Lay Dying

@redwood

First, why does it have to be an unsuccessfully made map?

Second, cannot all the requesting and denying be done via Pm's to prevent any animosity?

I offer all my HL1 maps, excepting the first one, which I know I have no rmf to. the rest, I might be able to scrounge up the old files.

There, I made the first offering. Anyone else? It might make it easiest to have everyone interested in having their maps up for editing, offer them in advance.

---

The best things in life, aren't things.

This really wouldn't even need to be organized. It's really just a one man project. And when your done you post a pole under general banter. Sounds like a good project for the SnarkPit right now.

Stadric said:
I vote yes because of Orpheus posting a 'no'. (And not out of spite.)

The only thing I voted no to, was the idea of everyone using the same map.

As the author of this thread, and I already voted, the quota pretty much shows I voted "Yes" to the idea.

giggles

It would just look way to odd if I voted no to my own idea.

---

The best things in life, aren't things.

I found all my old RMF's up to the time period where/when I worked on Apex_v2.

I have Deja_Vu, Thrasher, False_Accretion, Op4_False_Accretion, Deja_Vu_2, Apex and Apex_v2.

Thats the maps I released. I have an entire folder of unreleased HL1 maps.

With time, I might be able to locate ma latter maps as well.

Even though I admit that they suck owl s**t, I am willing to commit them to this project.

---

The best things in life, aren't things.

Your post detailing reasons justified the competition for me exactly
Orph - I have little time, rather, little time to sit and map - it is
crying out for a "map from base" competition. I know i'm not the only
one with the time and true effort to sit down and make a new map.

Perhaps a map built off a central shaped area or something would work?

Personally, I am open to A*N*Y*T*H*I*N*G!

Just as long as we do something. Seriously folks. Lets do something. I waited. I waited a long time before I suggested this in the hopes that someone, anyone would step forward.

You know me. I do not relish a principal position here. At least not with regard to running anything. I would be perfectly happy for anyone to run some sort of a competition.

The good thing about this idea today is, it cannot interfere with any other competition because its just a personal betterment type of thing.

I will throw my support behind anyone who wants to run a competition, as long as that person sees it to fruition.

If the majority wants to have a comp, with everyone working from a base map, lets do it then. :smile:

I will be running back and forth between Conway and Chicago all week. Work it out amongst yourselves and when I get back I'll assist... Assuming you want assistance.

---

The best things in life, aren't things.

Orph, since we've had a lot of discussions on the subject, I
wouldn't mind giving a try at making a retextured and relit Apex_v2,
with only textures from half-life.wad

I'm no longer working in any map, but I wouldn't mind re-installing Hammer and giving it a try, if it's Ok with you.

I wouldn't mind helping out, I like collaboration and working to make
something good better.
what happens if we continue the process until we get the perfect map,
we all get credit for our hand being in the pot?

Is using custom models to add details cheating?

---

don't sweat the petty stuff,just pet the sweaty stuff.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Kasperg_JM</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>Orph, since we've had a lot of discussions on the subject, I wouldn't mind giving a try at making a retextured and relit Apex_v2, with only textures from half-life.wad
I'm no longer working in any map, but I wouldn't mind re-installing Hammer and giving it a try, if it's Ok with you.
</DIV></DIV>

I have no problem as long as you agree to three conditions. I know, you are asking "what conditions its just a map?"

Well, I have two very valid reasons for setting them. In all but this map I'd not worry since they are my original creations. This map was not. Originally it was Jeff Meyer's map.

The first reason is, although every poll I've ever seen rates playability uppermost in everyones mind, this map always got beat up for its looks. Now mind, I strongly disagree that it can be classified "Ugly" but I do admit that the texture choices are outside the norm. What I never understood is, why so many people refused to play it. It has near perfect layout/connectivity. Near perfect item placement. Near perfect ambience, and pretty damned good lighting. (Its very hard to get a perfect night time theme.) Yet in spite of its high points people shunned it because of its texturing. I could never fathom that.

The second reason is of course, its Jeff's map.

So if you agree to my three conditions, feel free to edit anything you wish.

Conditions:
#1 whether you release this in a new form or not, you must defend it, to the limits of your conscience allows.
#2 No matter how many mistakes you find, you are only allowed to beat me up about them once each.
#3 You must mention Jeff Meyer in the read me txt. I don't care if you forget me, but he is a must.

Just understand that at the time I released this map I was at a certain level in my development as a mapper. I gave 100% to this map. By my skill now, that may not count for much, but at the time I gave my best. Beating me up about mistakes won't serve any useful purpose.

Feel free to use custom textures, or default as you wish.

Apex_v2.zip

---

The best things in life, aren't things.

I agree to those terms fully.

What I want to find out is if some people decided not to play it
because of texturing. I want to do some testing to see if a different
choice of textures and dividing the map into areas with distinct theme
could make it easier for the player to be always oriented, which I
think was what some people complained about.

Enjoy.

I know that you aren't near the level I was back when I did that map. I was intimidated as hell by the shear size of the thing.

You being way more learned than I was should have no troubles.

My hopes that you succeed, where I failed and get this map played.

---

The best things in life, aren't things.

9 "Yes" votes and one willing to commit. Any others willing to step forward?

---

The best things in life, aren't things.