hey man, fantastic work. really lovely. reminds me a lot of Jedi Knight 2:Jedi Outcast. And that, from me, is a very big compliment. I consider JK2 to be the best SW game I've ever played. it doesn't run so well in places for me. One place in particular had a huge fps drop due to particles and dynamic lights. not sure where you're using dynamic lights, but you might want to check your point_spotlights to make sure they're not emitting dynamic lights. but anyway, i like a lot. Good work.

Extract zip to this directory:

C:\Program Files\Valve\Steam\SteamApps\**yourname**\half-life 2 deathmatch

That'll fix'ya up methinks.

I am having trouble getting the textures to load. I placed the entire "dm_cloudcity" folder under my material folder on my client but still no success. BTW, when unzipping, the extract shows a new "map" folder under materials which I do not believe is correct. I left the materials in both locations just to be safe.

Any help would be appreciated!

ReNo said:
<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Orph</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>I, as a mapper would not build my map to run on an older card simply for players benefit.

That sounds kinda conflicting with your old view on r_speeds with HL1 Orph :wink: </div></div>

It does, but...

HL1 had a 1000 cap limit. No machines card could alter this.

HL2 has a different upper limit. I am not sure what it is yet, but as I said, my card is a 9800 pro.. I feel thats the bottom of the list for cards. I know someone will have a different viewpoint, but thats mine. As such, I would make my map according to what my bottom of the line card can handle. Anyone with an older card, would have to deal. I understand that HL2 will run on older cards, but mine is the oldest card I feel comfortable catering to.

Hope that made sense.

Well what im trying to get at is, a map that has 30 fps like this with this ammount of detail dose not run good with a decent ammount of players. Server admins have to think about people with lower and systems as well, if a map is giving us with good video cards 30 fps the people with lower end systems wont be able to handle it, therefor decresing your server traffic. Don't get me wrong I realy like the map otherwise I prob wouldnt have commented at all. I would just like to see the framerates increased for final because I know they can be, and I would like to host the map. Wrapping the skybox will increase the framerates by double in most cases, I've seen this come from other mappers and first hand experence. From my personaly experence of this was my finca_housewarming release has 55 to 60 fps in spots, once I wrapped my skybox the framerates went from 55 in 2 diffrent spots of the map to 120 to 145 fps in those spots. Sence then I've only been able to add more and more detail and the framerates are still doubled. Here is a screen of the diffrence I recived with my map...

Before...(notice I had the skybox wrapped to the outside walls as tight as possable and lowered to the top roof in the map, as well as nodraw everything underneath)
http://img124.imageshack.us/my.php?image=before6kc.jpg

After...(the only diffrence from reciving doubled framerates would be the fact that your video is not drawing a skybox over a long distance anymore)
http://img374.imageshack.us/my.php?image=after3ks.jpg

Try doing this with your map and I assure you the framerates will be better, if not doubled. and to answer your question orpheous here are my system specs and settings I was running... 3800+ 64 bit athlon, 7800 GTX evga, 2 gigs ram, x-fi sound, 500watt psu, 10,000 rpm hd, at 1280 by 1024 no anti aliasing, no antistrophic filtering, low shaddow detail and low pixel shadding, everything else is high.
I still hit 300 fps on other detailed maps at 2048 by 1536 on high settings (in hallways ofcorse) and in the most detailed spots stay around 70 + fps so im sure there is nothing wrong with my card/drivers ect. on average most realy detailed source maps give me 70 + fps on any resolution. never had any dirver problems with 3d programs or games. The low fps I recieve on this map I can gaurentee you is from the map, not my system.

Another way you can test this skybox theroy is go to the corner of your map and look at it across the map (the way the skybox is drawn in most distance, you will notice the framerates anywhere like this are low) Then turn around and look at the walls of your map that only draw a small corner of distance of the skybox. (PS it dosnt matter if you dont see the skybox, its still being draw, just looking at a one textured wall will do, you will notice this first hand) When you look at the walls that only have a small distance of skybox behind them those spots have realy high framerates. then once you look at anything else in the map, even if its not a detailed spot at all, be it a blank wall, it will still give you low framerates if whats behind what your looking at is skybox drawn over a distance. Just eliminate the skybox behind all the walls that you dont see skybox from inside the map. use more world brush thats nodrawed to seal the map and less skybox. skybox texture is the worst decreaser of framerates in a map from my experence. Go test it for youself, I assure you there will be a diffrence. Just dont get me the wrong way, I realy love the map, I just need it to run better for other players with lower end systems to host it.

edit: BTW Im sure your framerates being slightly better then mine have to do with the fact that this game was made for ATI cards.

Orph said:
I, as a mapper would not build my map to run on an older card simply for players benefit.

That sounds kinda conflicting with your old view on r_speeds with HL1 Orph :wink:

Some images in this post have been automatically down-sized, click on them to view the full sized versions:

Some images in this post have been automatically down-sized, click on them to view the full sized versions:

i got about 10 to 12 fps on most of the outdoor bits. :biggrin:

but anyway, i think this is a great map. the archtecture is detailed and i love the custom textures. i did notice some strange anomalies though:
1. in the console i got this error looping over and over: too many vertex format changes per frame. Probably too many world materials or env_cubemaps
2. this could just be my s**tty machine but some of the reflections in the metal were strange colours like oil on water:



3. odd shaped brushes would spontaneously appear and disappear every so often. heres one:

snowforskate said:
. So in othe words yes I will bitch about 30 fps because it can be fixed.

But you're working on the premise, that the cause and your solution are whats in evident.

I get massive framerates on many maps too but no one should, or could complain about 30fps.

Now, it might be purely visual data and there is no true way of correcting the situation, short of removing things or visblocking.

The map, by design is a large, open thing. There is a lot to draw all at once.

Yes, I have seen times where a skybox causes issues. But, without me going to the same spot you were in and looking at my frame rates, I'll never know.

In the end however, HL2 requires a certain amount of horse power to run. I would say that my video card, or maybe a 9600 is about as small as one could expect any map to run well upon. I, as a mapper would not build my map to run on an older card simply for players benefit. I would not deliberately sabotage them so that they couldn't play, but if I optimized my map and it still gave them trouble, then they would just have to play another map.

Sadly, this map may prove to be such. I dunno.

Bottomline, 30 fps is nothing to complain about. 20 maybe, 15 most definitely, but not 30. Thats optimal anyway.

Anyway, I feel you are complaining prematurely. Your solution may fix this, may not. But 30 isn't anything to be bothered over.

You still didn't answer my question. Why is my older card delivering better than yours?

It could still be your machine.

I can assure you its not my machine, The most detailed source maps ever made give me 70 fps all through out, however with this one and other maps with large skyboxes to seal the map its not the case. I've done the same thing with my releases and I just wish someone had explain that^ to me when I made that mistake. I'm just trying to help him out. All I was saying is I wouldnt host a map like this, as well as other server admins cause the framerates are to low. So in othe words yes I will bitch about 30 fps because it can be fixed.

PS if your getting 30 fps on a 9800 then I could only imagine how bad it is for those running lower grade systems, hence admins dont host maps like this.

This is certainly one of the most intersting maps around. I can't wait to play the finished version.

Here's what I noticed on a first look:

You stated that this map is made to "push the limits" so I won't spend too much time criticizing the FPS but you should know that people will complain about it running very slow on a full server. Also with some optimizing you could improve it a bit without much eyecandy lost.

[edit] I agree with Orpheus, I have a 9800 Pro and the map runs at 30+ FPS with 1280x960 and 2xAA. So it's not that bad.

I absolutely love the skybox. The cars flying around, the huge buildings in the distance, the perfect cloud effects... Also I like the advertisements, put more of them into the distance, too. Make sure the player wonders if there are similar places like the one you're running around in the distance. Connect it with the playing area more. It makes the setting more lively.

My biggest complaint is probably lighting. Everything seems to be covered in a constant brighness. There isn't any real contrast. My tip for this is usually to keep the ceilings darker by using spotlights. Maybe less different colors and especially "white" lights, more blues and yellows but not too close to each other. More like yellow for the inside and blue for the outside, for example.

Texture use is good at places but sometimes the mix is strange. The green floor tiles look too low tech for a place like this. To be honest I don't like the orange lines at all. A tip: Try to replace the orange texture by a white stripe of brightness. I think it could work! I don't really have a problem with the carpet texture. It makes the place look more like an actual city than a mechanical space station, that's something I like. It needs more borders and trims, though, like most floors in the map. Many grey textures are used, but different shades of grey (greenish, blueish then some absolutely neutral color in between). This makes the whole place look colorless although it already uses almost the whole spectrum. Try to define one main color for each area, like with lighting.

The only thing I don't like about the architecture is that there are too many, too long corridors. They mostly look the same and you feel like the detail is streched a bit, making it look bland at close range. This could be improved by slightly better aligned textures, a few borders maybe. Ideal would be some high detail models for the arches, but I know that's not easy :rolleyes: