December 7th

Take a moment and ponder.

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There is no history until something happens, then there is.

I just wonder how many people know what you're talking about...

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Some people are like slinkys...

They aren?t really good for anything, but you can't help but laugh when one tumbles down the stairs.

...Not me!

ooh, ooh, i do! pick me! pick me!

Happy International Civil Aviation Day!

No, really, I know what it is, but I'll leave it for all you to figure out by yourselves.

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"If you talk at all during this lesson, you have detention. Do you understand?"

• My yr11 Economics teacher

im a vet, i remember, i also remember having multiple conversations here on said topic, and im worn from it.....lets hope it doesnt happen again.

......but you know in the back of your head, it will, in whatever form taken.

Doc Brasso

I know what it is, not many people do. Heres a hint: They made a crapy love story movie out of it.

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Posting And You

Romeo and Juliet.

No no. Wait. It's the Titanic. I hate that movie.

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Never try to be perfect - just try it and make the best out of it

<div class="quote">

</div>Pearl Harbour?

Tracer Bullet said:
I just wonder how many people know what you're talking about...

Apparently it only took 64 years to become a joke, or almost totally forgotten.

Its sad that December 7th is a date that will live through a "crappy love story movie".

I should have guessed since the 7th was nearly over and nobody said a word. :sad:

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There is no history until something happens, then there is.

To be honest, I didn't know. I don't have very many famous dates
lodged in my mind. Besides, I'm of the 9/11 generation, not the
Pearl Harbor one.

Addicted to Morphine said:
To be honest, I didn't know. I don't have very many famous dates lodged in my mind. Besides, I'm of the 9/11 generation, not the Pearl Harbor one.

Thankfully, none of us are a "Pearl" generation so thats really no excuse for not knowing. I could excuse a non-American for not grasping the connection but never a native born.

I don't know whats more disturbing. Not knowing the significance, or not caring to know.

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There is no history until something happens, then there is.

it's all down to politics. japan is a stong player in the world economy, so their shadowy past can be put aside for the sake of the money they can save/generate for the US.

ireland, however, is still a mainly rural place, with less than its fair share of investment, putting it much farther behind japan in order of 'world importance'. this is probably why there's still marching bands being allowed to parade through the defeated peoples streets over 300 years later.

'lest we forget' (if they can't make us rich)

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i eat paint

I do not hold todays Japan accountable. Still, there is a tragic event to be remembered. I have really only met one Pearl Vet in my whole life so the amount of people alive that were even there is getting pretty slim.

Anyway, I just wanted to clarify that I am not posting this to alienate Japan, just to make people aware. I was surprised that the thread had not already been posted yet is all.

From a militaristic standpoint, I would probably have done the same thing back then as the Japanese did. I would have carried it to the next step and totally wiped out all resistance but as they say, hind sight is 20/20.

The audacity of taking on a superpower in one fell swoop is inspiring.

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There is no history until something happens, then there is.

Addicted to Morphine said:
To
be honest, I didn't know. I don't have very many famous dates lodged in
my mind. Besides, I'm of the 9/11 generation, not the Pearl Harbor one.

Thankfully, none of us are a "Pearl" generation so thats really no
excuse for not knowing. I could excuse a non-American for not grasping
the connection but never a native born.

I don't know whats more disturbing. Not knowing the significance, or not caring to know.

Like I said, I can't remember dates in general, so it's not like I'm attempting to s**t on America.

Additionally, I'm not native born. I was born in Korea, grew up
in Japan and the Philippines, and then moved here. I consider
myself an American, but perhaps with my personal history as a qualifier
you won't hold me to such high standards.

But, putting all that aside, yes I applaud your desire to remind us /
make us think about those who have died unjustly. But if that's
your goal, then I would point you overseas where thousands die unjustly
on a daily basis. If we were to follow the spirit of this thread
for them, we'd have new threads almost on a daily basis.

Addicted to Morphine said:
Like I said, I can't remember dates in general, so it's not like I'm attempting to s**t on America.

Calm down, no one was accusing anyone of s**tting on anyone else.

The event, although it happened on American soil, actually shook the greater part of the world. I just assumed that it was still being taught in history at the very least. The fact that it is pretty old news is a factor for it not being remembered however so I do understand not remembering.

Anyway, I posted the thread to get everyone to ponder. If your idea of pondering is to group ALL tragic events into one pondering thats good too.

When I think of tragedy, its not 9/11 its Dec 7th. So much for the generational gap I suppose.

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There is no history until something happens, then there is.

It makes me wonder what tragedy was greater, Hiroshima, where the majority of victims were civilian, or Pearl Harbour.

I'd rather think of it like this:

[*] 1787 - Delaware becomes the first state to ratify the United States Constitution.
[*] 1815 - Michel Ney, Marshal of France, is executed by firing squad, after having been convicted of treason for his support of Napoleon Bonaparte.
[*] 1917 - World War I: The United States declares war on Austria-Hungary.
[*] 1941 - World War II: Attack On Pearl Harbor - The Imperial Japanese Navy attacks the U.S. Pacific Fleet and its defending Army Air Corps and Marine air forces at Pearl Harbor, Hawaii.
[*] 1946 - A fire at the Winecoff Hotel in Atlanta, Georgia kills 119 people.
[*] 1949 - Chinese Civil War: The government of the Republic of China moves from Nanking to Taipei.
[*] 1965 - Pope Paul VI and Patriarch Athenagoras simultaneously lift mutual excommunications that had been in place since 1054.
[*] 1966 - A fire at an army barracks in Erzurum, Turkey kills 68 people.
[*] 1972 - Apollo 17, the last Apollo moon mission, is launched. The crew take the photograph known as "The Blue Marble" as they leave the Earth.
[*] 1975 - Indonesia invades East Timor.
[*] 1982 - In Texas, Charles Brooks, Jr. becomes the first person to be executed by lethal injection in the United States.
[*] 1983 - Two jetliners collide at Madrid Barajas International Airport, Madrid killing 93 people.
[*] 1987 - PSA Flight 1771 crashes near Paso Robles, California, killing all 43 on board, after a disgruntled passenger shoots his ex-boss on the flight, then shoots both pilots and himself.
[*] 1988 - Spitak Earthquake: In Armenia an earthquake measuring 6.9 on the Richter scale kills nearly 25,000, injures 15,000 and leaves 400,000 homeless.
[*] 1988 - Yasser Arafat recognizes the right of Israel to exist.
[*] 2004 - Hamid Karzai is inaugurated as President of Afghanistan.
[*] 2005 - Rigoberto Alpizar, a passenger on American Airlines Flight 924 who claimed to have a bomb, is shot and killed by a team of U.S. federal air marshals at Miami International Airport.
Some very important things happened on December 7. One of those was the attack on Pearl Harbor. While the attack itself did have a major impact on world history, so did the events in 1787, 1917, 1975, and 1988, and who can say what else had a major effect on world history. Perhaps one of the people killed in one of the above events would have been the next Hitler, or Gandhi.

If youre going to observe this day as a day when people were killed, there are other days when more people died. If youre going to observe this day as a turning point in history, you might as well observe every moment as a turning point in history. If Rigoberto Alpizar had taken his medication that day, he could still be alive, and who knows what impact his death will have.

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"If you talk at all during this lesson, you have detention. Do you understand?"

• My yr11 Economics teacher

You know, pondering used to be more silent. I understand and you all have good points but why point out what we are not thinking of as if it overshadows what the thread is about?

Yes, there are many significant events on Dec 7th but if they were important then why didn't you begin a thread about them first? Why turn my thread into something that could be construed as if I were unfeeling or uncaring about all those other events?

Yesterday was December the 7th. Today is December 8th. I am betting something major happened today as well why not have a thread each and every day dedicated to events on that date?

Jeez guys. It was a moment of ponderance, not a time to point out exactly what was overlooked.

I would say that in their own way Hiroshima and Pearl are about even. The Japanese civilians would have followed their Emperor unto death anyway so killing them then instead of waiting for them to be conscripted might have saved more lives in the end. Who knows?

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There is no history until something happens, then there is.

Well its not celebrated here in the UK. It can't be that important.

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-[Better to be Honest than Kind]-

Underdog said:
Yesterday was December the 7th. Today is December 8th. I am betting something major happened today as well why not have a thread each and every day dedicated to events on that date?

Thats the point I was trying to make really.

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"If you talk at all during this lesson, you have detention. Do you understand?"

• My yr11 Economics teacher

i wouldn't expect to find many places where it is celebrated....

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i eat paint

fishy said:
i wouldn't expect to find many places where it is celebrated....

I was thinking the exact same thing but was looking for some hidden reason for that post.

I didn't really want to jump to the wrong conclusion since it would be making a sort of morgue humor.

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There is no history until something happens, then there is.

It's been five years since the end of The Great Furry Flamewar. This calls for a celebration.

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Better to be in denial than to be human.

Bill Gates understands binary: his company is number one, and his customers are all zeros.

I would say that in their own way Hiroshima and Pearl are
about even. The Japanese civilians would have followed their Emperor
unto death anyway so killing them then instead of waiting for them to
be conscripted might have saved more lives in the end. Who knows?

The bomb was not dropped to prevent the civilians in Hiroshima from
being conscripted but to intimidate Japan into a surrender. A
protracted war/invasion was predicted to cost many American
lives. The bottom line is that we used an atomic bomb on civilians where they used conventional bombs to attack a military base. I don't think they are even remotely even.

Everyone forgets about Nagasaki. You know the other place that got an A-Bomb dropped on them the same day.

I don't think they're even close to the same "atrocity" either. Seriously. Attacking Civilians is a terrible thing to do.

The only thing that's really happened to us that is even close is 9/11, however, that still wasn't a nuclear attack.

At least New York wasn't radiated for decades.

The only similarities I'll give Pearl Harbor and Hiroshima/Nagasaki is they were both done with tactical motives for winning the war.

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

yes but you forget, its terrorism if it's aimed at the USA

.....now ask me why i stay the f**k off these threads anymore.......

peace....believe it, everyboy's ass smells.

Doc Brasso.....

yes but you forget, its terrorism if it's aimed at the USA

Yeah, I think it's pretty safe to say Hiroshima and
Nagasaki were the greatest ahem terrorist attacks in the world.

Indeed, I believe that was his point, but he's just showing how the US
looks at the attacks against them rather than how they attack others.

man o man....you arrogant little s**ts.......do your f**king homework, and as the man said, "ponder".....

wilson, out of all those little dates, which do you deem the most important, and influential?

it amazes me the irreverance being cultivated......few of you f**kers know yer ass from a bucket, and yet you still spout yer adolescent rhetoric as if it is factually based....bah. .....a waste of time, and breath.....

Doc B...

Does this apply to the posts made my Crono and myself? If not, I'd like to see them responded to.

atm, you and crono both have your own takes on "history", the motives behind events, stats, etc etc.....and thats all fine and well, and as it should be. just because i dont share the same "take" on it makes it my own opinion, nothing more. yes, i think it was wrong to drop the bombs....but look at it from a self preservation mode, an instinct engrained on us from the beginning. we gave a half million lives to save everyone elses ass, and we were tired of it....its no different in mindset than going to get yer daddy's gun to save yer bro's from an ass beating by a bully.

....and i suppose i should have been more clear, as i really was not hurling those statements at the two of you (and crono). a blanket statement was uncalled for. my apologies sir.

i suppose i could boil my thoughts down to this....war is war, unlike any other action on earth....humans are basicly dumber than s**t, arrogant, self serving, manipulative, coniving, sneaky, and without a doubt the most horribly twisted creatures on the planet.....bar none. the only ones to blatantly murder its own kind, on whatever level it is. war included. no reason needed. im old. ive seen this world go to s**t quickly, and it amazes me that we cant seem to pull our collective heads out of our asses. it disheartens me, because i know my kids are going to bear the brunt of our decisions. pandors'a box is open wide. history is recorded for the future to read, assimiliate, ponder, and hopefully to motivate them to not repeat our mistakes. but alas, it is inevitable, although it does not have to be.

Doc B... :dodgy:

<3

Sometimes, it's really depressing to stop thinking about wars not as battle of the numbers. When you actually experience those events or are alive for them, your views change. For someone younger it's just something you read in a book. It isn't until a film or something like that shows what it was like that you really get a feel for it.

I don't know why though, we've all been alive through some war or another and we should have the ability to place what we see in our lives and apply it to what has happened in history to get an understanding.

I've thought about things that would make countries better, for people, and whenever I think about it I'm faced with the prospect that whatever I do will potentially be used to destroy other people. It's a very disturbing thing to think of. Being a computer scientist (soon), it's, sadly, something I have to deal with. Since some research I do could lead to the destruction of entire cities or cultures.

Thankfully nothing is that advanced in AI or the likes. But there are instances for example: what about a group who works on a problem to find the shortest distance from point A to point B in a city, like for driving ... that solution could be used for guiding missiles, or unmanned tanks. :sad:

Part of what makes America a good place to live while making it America's greatest flaw is the power money has.The more potentially deadly problem you solve (for whatever company you work for), the more money you get paid.

Not that they have to tell you what you're really doing.

Sorry for the tangent. I do understand what you're saying, wise Brasso.

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

I mean this as respectfully as possible. No sarcasm or ill intent intended. This is the first post I have ever read by you Crono that made sense on a level that I can not only relate to, but understand from beginning to end.

I am saving it to my desk top for safe keeping. I now have hopes for you. Not that my opinion matters one iota, but I just knew that you were.... Well nevermind. I have now reevaluated my opinions.

This post will join the few I have respect for since my advent unto Snarkpitland.

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There is no history until something happens, then there is.

• hands UD some Kleenex *

:biggrin:

crono, i feel like i just caught a glimpse of your soul..... im impressed sir.... :wink: its good to see, and my respect for you just jumped tenfold...

Doc B...

Addicted to Morphine said:

• hands UD some Kleenex *

Dammit, I told you last time Kleenex wasn't strong enough. :heee:

Actually, Doc said it better than I but my intention was similar to his.

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There is no history until something happens, then there is.