Denmark = screwed?

Dr Brasso said:
spoken like a "true joined at the hip" brother....///runs

Doc B... :dodgy:

but honestly...isnt this one of the most overindulgent scenarios youve seen?...they are just making grounds to pick a fight with a percieved "western" country...i understand to a point, but this borders on the undefendable and ridiculous. bah..... shame on you.

Agreed. They are completely irrational. Its like dealing with a teenage daughter going through PMS. There are learned art books that show hundreds of years of persian, turkish etc islamic paintings showing muhhamed, so the potraying his image being "forbidden" is up to interpretation. They either need to be ignored or dealt with harshly, imo.
My experience when I lived in Saudi Arabia is that the masses are highly educated on Islam, but mostly oblivious to anything else that would "elevate" their sensibilities other than the dogma they were taught.

---

Help stop the arsehole: http://ebaumsworldsucks.com/

todays update, which borders on incredible

msn linkage

.....think this would be a good time to turn this thread into a religious debate, including facets like...oh, say......insanity??...fanaticism??....larry, moe, and curly on ......whatever they are smoking these days???

Doc B.... :dodgy:

this guy was jailed for seven years today. one of the charges (indictments) was for having a book that the police had actually returned to him in 1999. no doubt it'll stir up more radicals, into more frenzies.

and if inciting impressionable people to murder is such a bad thing, worthy of jailtime, wtf are the bbc doing broadcasting examples of it. if they don't have the balls to show the cartoons that are said to be so offensive to muslims, wtf do they think they're playing at by showing an extremist, raging and preaching murder and hate against me and mine? i find that offensive.

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i eat paint

YEAH! I wan't to see the cartoons. I've seen the video of Nick Berg being decapitated by muslim extremists, and yet, I can't find the dang cartoons of Muhammed.

I just don't understand WHY ppl are making such a big deal about it. We never burned an embassy when a protester in Iraq burns an American Flag (jerks).

---

I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

What Denmark did to solve the problem:

Dialog, apoligies, debate and communication.

What Islam did:

Burning embasades, suiciding themselves by attacking their own police "for Muhammed" and then calling themselves martyrs, Threatening Denmark and boycotting them.

____________________________________________________________________

LATEST NEWS:

Muslims keep attacking Danish embasades.

One of the drawings brought from Denmark by Danish muslims, which was claimed to be a picture of Muhammed, showed to be a manipulated drawing of a Frenchman, in a French "pig-whining" contest (Crazy French xD) that was manipulated to look like a drawing. (May upload pic later)

Jyllands-posten are planning to release MORE pictures, now making fun of Joodish (What the f are they called in English?) and Christian prophet(s). Stupid idea if you ask me

MANY (X-)ministers and politicians have criticised Jyllands-posten for bringing those drawings, and thereby "use freedom of speech in a wrong way".

The Danish prime minister and Jyllands posten and others have several times apoligied, which was the only thing the Muslims asked for, BUT THEY STILL DON'T SEEM TO BE SATISFIED BECAUSE... whatever -.-

The head-director (or whatever it's called) of Jyllands-posten said that he would never have brought those drawings if he knew how it would end up, and also said his apologie. He want to "straighten out the damages" by making new drawings of other religions prophets. (Omg, clever guy, now he wants the rest of the world as enemies just to (MAYBE) satisfie the Muslims? Wonder what his IQ is...)

Oh, and Nickelplate, it might be easier for me to find those drawings...

EDIT:

Found them! The first one is an Italian one, but the next 12 are the ones from Jyllands-posten. A bit low-quality, sry.

Islam did, what the muslims thought..

I see no ships cap'n, but raging generisations ho'!

Oh, as for that "westernresistance" website - one of the cartoons is
labelled as completely harmless. FFS! Muslims find pictorising Mohammed
offensive and it goes against Islam OF COUSE IT'S OFFENSIVE!

Just because most Westernised nations have bastardised, consumerised
and all but abandoned their religion doesn't mean our friends in the
east should be insulted for still having faith in theirs.

I'd also like to state that I dont support the violent protests or
direct attacks that have erupted from this, but someone needs to fight
a corner for Islamic views here because this thread is just turning
into a "kick Islam while it's down" party and most of the points raised
are stereotypes, generalisations and downright wrong.

Structured, informed and reasoned debate is a dying art, it saddens me
to see. I argued with adiabiatic on IRC the other day that Europe
doesn't have right wing leanings and parties with potential to get
power, but going by some opinions expressed here we are sailing closer
to the winds of hate and ignorance than I dared imagine.

Apropos ships, now they are putting special taxes on Danish ships!

Oh, and sry for posting this western resistance site, I just meant to show nickelplate the pictures, i didn't even read the name of the site, or any of the text...

And for the faith thing, I do not blame them for being mad over those drawing, i just think they are pulling this thing too far. I don't see any connection between boycotting Danish products and Religion, unless the products themselves were labeled "f**k MUHAMMED".

I haven't read the whole thread, but I agree with Gwil. I heard on BBC
the other night that norwegian press that printet the cartoons as well,
AFTER the incident. Why are they doing this when a certain group of
people apparently do find it offensive?

I have a feeling that many people critizicing islam can't keep actual facts from stupid rumors/ideas.

---

What the Snarkpitters listen to!

HazardGameR^ said:
I don't see any connection between boycotting Danish products and Religion, unless the products themselves were labeled offensively.

maybe that's down to the fact that we know that news stories aren't necessarily the voice of the state. in countries governed by extremists, of any denomination, you'll tend to find the opposite. the people there will believe that ALL the stories carried ARE the voice of the state. with that mindset, it's not surprising that these people will hold the danish government accountable for what's in a danish newspaper.

---

i eat paint

"Joodish" = Jews

---

I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

fishy said:
maybe that's down to the fact that we know that news stories aren't necessarily the voice of the state. in countries governed by extremists, of any denomination, you'll tend to find the opposite. the people there will believe that ALL the stories carried ARE the voice of the state. with that mindset, it's not surprising that these people will hold the danish government accountable for what's in a danish newspaper.

I agree to a point. But any intelligent person should know that communication is a two way process. I know it fails in practice but thats a fact.

If the people who felt wronged are judging the wrong doers by their own standards then they are as wrong because it only perpetuates the miscommunication into an escalated process of "he said, she said"

I hope that made sense. It did when I was thinking it. :sad:

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The best things in life, aren't things.

Gwil said:
Islam did, what the muslims thought..

I see no ships cap'n, but raging generisations ho'!

Oh, as for that "westernresistance" website - one of the cartoons is labelled as completely harmless. FFS! Muslims find pictorising Mohammed offensive and it goes against Islam OF COUSE IT'S OFFENSIVE!

Just because most Westernised nations have bastardised, consumerised and all but abandoned their religion doesn't mean our friends in the east should be insulted for still having faith in theirs.

I'd also like to state that I dont support the violent protests or direct attacks that have erupted from this, but someone needs to fight a corner for Islamic views here because this thread is just turning into a "kick Islam while it's down" party and most of the points raised are stereotypes, generalisations and downright wrong.

Structured, informed and reasoned debate is a dying art, it saddens me to see. I argued with adiabiatic on IRC the other day that Europe doesn't have right wing leanings and parties with potential to get power, but going by some opinions expressed here we are sailing closer to the winds of hate and ignorance than I dared imagine.

How come nobody cares if they offend Christianity or Judaeism?

I find it EXTREMELY offensive that you lump ME with all the other people who have "bastardized, consumerized, and all but abandoned thier religion." But somehow, I think you don't care. Which further proves the point i presented above!

next, stereotypes and generalizations don't come about for no reason. If there was not an overabundance of angry muslims who like to destroy things, there would not be that stereotype.

Next, it's offensive to me that you consider all right-wing-affiliated persons "ignorant and hateful." That's such a stereotype. But again, I really don't think you'll care.

So, you've just offended a religion AND stereotyped a whole big group of people, so I KNOW you know how easy it is. And i really don't think you'll care about either one.

The only difference in what others are defending and what you're defending is that others are defending Equal freedoms of speech and expression, and you're defending a group of international hoodlums who like to burn and destroy stuff. Yours is a hard task.

PS. I know not ALL muslims are hoodlums and bad ppl.

---

I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

I'm making a general point that on this thread people are rounding on
Islam and the Muslim world without any factual basis.

Also my points are mostly true - I put them in hyperbole as that seems to be the only way to communicate ideas here.

I'd type a response now, but i'm off to bed soon and can't be arsed to
rope into a flamewar. If you'd like me to wade into a quote by quote
disassembly of how people have moved from general comments to outright
unfounded attacks on Islam, then I will.

Edit - just one point, to make an example of tripping yourself up on the points I raised with you:

If there was not an overabundance of angry muslims

Incidentally, overabundance isn't
even a suitable word. Sticking in a big word where a smaller word, or a
few smaller words would do smacks of desperation.

Here, see - small minority - often state sanctioned becomes "overabundance"

As for right wing - i'm talking about extreme right, and in a European
context too. Again, you're quoting me out of context and not addressing
specific points with backup quotes as it supposed to be the way with
any kind of reasoned debate. Like I say, i'm happy to devote some time
to pick through all 9 pages of this thread and demonstrate the
attitudes that I was chastising before.

It's a debate, for me. Not some pissing contest. All I'm saying is that ONE side is wrong and ONE side is right. Just because I agree with everyone else, doesnt mean that I haven't thought about it.

I dont want a flame war. I hope ur not all pissed off now, coz I'm not. k?

---

I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

Islam did, what the muslims thought..

I see no ships cap'n, but raging generisations ho'!

Oh, as for that "westernresistance" website - one of the cartoons is
labelled as completely harmless. FFS! Muslims find pictorising Mohammed
offensive and it goes against Islam OF COUSE IT'S OFFENSIVE!

Just because most Westernised nations have bastardised, consumerised
and all but abandoned their religion doesn't mean our friends in the
east should be insulted for still having faith in theirs.

I'd also like to state that I dont support the violent protests or
direct attacks that have erupted from this, but someone needs to fight
a corner for Islamic views here because this thread is just turning
into a "kick Islam while it's down" party and most of the points raised
are stereotypes, generalisations and downright wrong.

Structured, informed and reasoned debate is a dying art, it saddens me
to see. I argued with adiabiatic on IRC the other day that Europe
doesn't have right wing leanings and parties with potential to get
power, but going by some opinions expressed here we are sailing closer
to the winds of hate and ignorance than I dared imagine.

Hello there, this is "Ruy Diaz" from Western Resistance.

I usually don't participate in forums because:

a) I don't have the time.

b) People in the political forums usually have their minds made up and it is mostly a waste of time.

But this is mainly a non-political forum, and you guys and gals seem to be trying to understand, so an exception is warranted.

Here is what I find wrong with your statement:

1. You say that depicting Mohammad is never harmless because it goes
against Islam. Are you ready to follow that principle in the rest of
your life? For example; are you ready to never eat meat because it
offends Hindus? Are you ready to never criticize North Korea's human
rights record because it offends the followers of the Juche Philosophy? Are you ready to never allow a woman to have an abortion because it offends Catholics?

2. You take pride in emerging as the defender of Islam, ("but somebody
has to fight a corner for Islamic views here..."). The relevant
question, of course, is whether you know anything, anything at all
about Islamic views.

Did you know, for example:

a) That in Islamic Law, Jihad ought to be waged until the whole world submits to Islam.

b) That in Islamic Law, in order to condemn a man of rape, four male witnesses are needed, making rape prosecutions nearly impossible.

c) That in Islamic Law, non-Muslims are relegated to an inferior status, known as the Dhimma,
and that Christian, Jewish, and other minorities have suffered under
this system for centuries, and continue to do so as we speak.

Did you also know that Islam's prophet Mohammad:

d) Took as a wife--his favorite wife--a six-year-old girl, Aisha, and
his marriage to her was consumated when she was nine and he was in his
fifties.

e) Massacred a Jewish tribe, the Bani Qurayza, on a flimsy pretext.

I'll be ready to answer any questions that arise from this or about our website, mission, etc.

I take pride in? Read my post - I'm fighting the corner of Islam
because i'm fighting the corner of the man who will stand up and stop a
few voices of unreasonable thought becoming the power that dictates
policy.

I'll address your points tomorrow, rest assured.

Oh BTW -

b) That in Islamic Law, in order to condemn a man of rape, four male witnesses are needed, making rape prosecutions nearly impossible.

Of course, all majority Muslim states follow Shareeah law and even
those that do don't modify it for a modern context. Seriously, come on.
Like I say, i'm ready and waiting for this.

As for this?

Did you also know that Islam's prophet Mohammad:

d) Took as a wife--his favorite wife--a six-year-old girl, Aisha, and
his marriage to her was consumated when she was nine and he was in his
fifties.

e) Massacred a Jewish tribe, the Bani Qurayza, on a flimsy pretext.

Give me a break.

If the argument will go forth like this I'm not sure if i'll waste the breath.

Of course, all majority Muslim states follow Shareeah law and even
those that do don't modify it for a modern context. Seriously, come on.
Like I say, i'm ready and waiting for this.

January 8th, 2006 Islamic Republic of Iran: http://www.westernresistance.com/blog/archives/001338.html

(Sorry for not providing a link and a quote, as I'm yet to find the BBCode buttons.)

Give me a break.

If the argument will go forth like this I'm not sure if i'll waste the breath.

I'll give you a break when you earn it.

Ruy Diaz: Welcome and have a wonderful time

Gwil: Nice new avatar, it's cool.

Both: attacking Muhammed's character is not going to prove anything about Islam one way or another, just like saying "Jesus was a meanie" is not going to prove anything about Christianity.

Four male witnesses are needed, because women LIE.

I don't think that ANYONE sohuld negotiate with Muslims. Islam is a RELIGION, not a country. If Christians don't like something, too bad. Same with everyone else. Only countries should take part in negotiations and things like that.

Here, we have the representatives from the USA, Russia, UK, Germany and the Muslim Cleric. That's not gonna fly.

---

I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

Ruy Diaz: Welcome and have a wonderful time

Thanks. But before having a good time I'll have to find out what the forum is about. Perhaps I should take a break from reading The Legacy of Jihad?

Gwil: Nice new avatar, it's cool.

Both: attacking Muhammed's character is not going to prove anything
about Islam one way or another, just like saying "Jesus was a meanie"
is not going to prove anything about Christianity.

It is not simply attacking Muhammad's character; it is that his teachings were often a justification of his actions and that he is held by Muslims to be the best of men, worthy of imitation.

Four male witnesses are needed, because women LIE.

That made me smile, but just a little bit. And the 'four male
witnesses' law was actually an accident (note; I'm quoting from memory,
details not guaranteed): there were rumors flying around then-tiny
Muslimdom that Mohammad's beloved Aisha was having ahem an unsavory
friendship with a young male thing. Then Allah came to Muhammad's
rescue by revealing to him what was needed to prove a sexual crime:
four male witnesses! That was a pretty generous law when it came to
Aisha, but a very bad law to base a civilization upon.

i have never said that they shouldnt be a little pissed off....hell, i get mad trying to start the damn lawn mower....the point i was trying to make is that it has gotten way out of hand. and something to remember, this all started back in september, this was not pursued as a cause until a group of muslim clerics in Denmark took this information, with embellishment, back to the middle east where it was then administered as incitement. intentional inflammation. so be it.... now, islam frowns upon having or seeing or creating a likeness of ole Mo, but, it is a tradition. NOT A LAW> nor is it in the good book of islam folks. so, given that denmark is a freedom loving country, it will have to bear the brunt of this volley. gwilliam, i have nothing but respect for you and your views....and i wanna learn wtf is the problem....if my math is right, this will all come to a head about the time i retire for good, and my kids will have to sort this s**t out. and i dont trust them to get the trash out of the house on time, let alone dealing with a billion pissed off muslims running across the border

debate gents, keep it civil. i am truly interested in all your thoughts.

Doc B... :dodgy:

While I absolutely hate every islamist fundamentalist (and fundamentalism in general), there are a few facts I'd like to point out, in favour of (moderate) muslim culture:

1- There are hundreds of turkish and persian representations of the prophet, dating from the Ottoman Empire. (of course they didn't show him with a bomb)

2- Christians and Jews are "the people of the book", and no christian or jew was ever converted by force to islam; only pagans were.

3- The aim of Jihad is to "defend the muslim faith", whenever it is threatened, and NOT converting everyone to Islam, especially not christians or jews, since Islam is the continuity of the first two monothesit religions.

4- While the Coran forbids drinking alcohol, one of the most famous arab poets during the Abbassid empire (Abou Nuwass) has written practically all his poems about wine and women, and was never arsed by any calife.

5- While Islam forbids the representation of any living being, all the ornaments of Alhambra palace, the pearl of Andalusian architecture, are sculptures of lions and other animals.

These points are only to prove that the problem doesn't really come from Islam: I don't think there is something fundamentally wrong with the Coran. But what is completely unacceptable is fanatism! Just like in the middle ages, they burnt a lot of people in the name of christianity, something similar is happening with islam right now....

Dr Brasso said:
i have never said that they shouldnt be a little pissed off....hell, i get mad trying to start the damn lawn mower....

You too?

I seriously think they make the engine so that just about every third pull it kicks back, jerking the handle from your fingers. I nearly lose a shoulder every f**king time.
Stupid Engineers and their sorry excuse for humor.

---

The best things in life, aren't things.

lol....its a curse jon.. ya gotta get it where ya find it, especially when ya need it... :wink:

oh btw, i neglected to tell ya my mower is a rider :heee: ....hows that for engineering??../////runs

Doc B... :dodgy:

<div class="abouttext">Message submitted 9 minutes after original post:</b></div>
kain....and all others educated in the islamic faith.

pretend im a 5 year old kid.

im tugging on moms apron whilst shes glued to the tv during a breaking news update....another bomb has gone off, killing s**tloads of people....

i look up and ask the most basic of uninformed, and uneducated questions.

"Mom, why are those men on tv screaming and burning those things and hurting themselves?" as i hear the tv speaking of hundreds dead and injured. formulate an answer.

now jump forward to me being the age of 16.

....and try to explain an answer, if someone could sir....in the most basic and complete terms possible.

please.

this whole scene makes less sense to me than about any serious situation ive ever been hit with.........and adds nerves.

Doc B....

It is very tempting to demolish your five points, one by one, but I'd
rather concentrate on the most outrageously wrong. Hopefully this will
make you re-examine your assumptions.

While I absolutely hate every islamist fundamentalist (and
fundamentalism in general), there are a few facts I'd like to point
out, in favour of (moderate) muslim culture:[...]2- Christians
and Jews are "the people of the book", and no christian or jew was ever
converted by force to islam; only pagans were.[...]

First, "pagans" included millions of Hindus, Zoroastrians, etc. And I
really don't understand how your statement, if it were true, would be a
major point in favor of Islam. But it is not true. To be blunt, have
you ever heard of the devshirme?

If you haven't, do so now: http://www.srpska-mreza.com/History/pre-wwOne/Ye_Or.html

(About a third of the way into the article.)

yer linkage is b0rkd sir.....

Doc B...

Ruy Diaz said:
It is very tempting to demolish your five points, one by one, but I'd rather concentrate on the most outrageously wrong.

You know, I am just an observer because I mostly don't give a rats ass about this topic and who got P.O.'d over a comic strip but...

Kain has not only been here a while, but is pretty level headed in most everything he posts. I am not one to side with an older member just because either so don't go there but, you being particularly new you seem either well versed, or just overly opinionated.

Lets assume that since Kain actually lives closer than you, that he might have some insiders view.

/ 2 cents.

---

The best things in life, aren't things.

Ruy Diaz said:
It is very tempting to demolish your five points, one by one, but I'd rather concentrate on the most outrageously wrong.

You know, I am just an observer because I mostly don't give a rats
ass about this topic and who got P.O.'d over a comic strip but...

Kain has not only been here a while, but is pretty level headed in
most everything he posts. I am not one to side with an older member
just because either so don't go there but, you being particularly new
you seem either well versed, or just overly opinionated.

Lets assume that since Kain actually lives closer than you, that he might have some insiders view.

/ 2 cents.

So, you say you are not one to side with an older member, just before siding with an older member, just because he is so?

You know, you could just think throught the arguments. Some people consider that the superior option.

<div class="quote"><div class="quotetitle">? quote:</div><div class="quotetext">

<div class="quote">

</div>

So, you say you are not one to side with an older member, just before siding with an older member, just because he is so?

You know, you could just think throught the arguments. Some people consider that the superior option.

</div></div>

/crawls from underneath a rock
FFS. Kain is from the Middle East and thusly has better insight on the matter than we do, that's why Orph sided with him.

yer linkage is b0rkd sir.....
Doc B...

Arrrghhh! I am unable to copy-and-paste into the message, is there a way to do that?

The link is 'semi-fixed'; that is, it still won't point to the Bat
Ye'or article, but if you copy the web address into your browser, it
will get you there.

Ruy Diaz said:
You know, you could just think throught the arguments. Some people consider that the superior option.

Well, we'll talk about whats superior tomorrow. Having a whole thread about me would take a while.

I do believe however that Kain living there might have a superior position to draw conclusions from.

---

The best things in life, aren't things.

Arrrghhh! I am unable to copy-and-paste into the message, is there a way to do that?

Try using ctrl+c and ctrl+v.

Contrary to my bold claims I won't be contributing to this debate any
longer - circumstance has dictated that sometimes opinions are
unchangeable, no matter how much you disagree with them.

Add to that I have sources to read regarding Varangian and Slavish
influence in Russia 800-1800, learning and knowledge takes priority.

Hehe, welcome back Orpheus! :smile: I love this guy!! (in a purely non-gay sens of the word...).

And Ruy Diaz, welcome aboard! Debates are always fun, even/especially when someone is hard to convince, or not convincible at all!

Kain said:
Hehe, welcome back Orpheus! :smile: I love this guy!! (in a purely non-gay sens of the word...)

blushes

In a purely non-gay way, thanx. :smile:

---

The best things in life, aren't things.

AnotherDenmark.org and We Are Sorry.

You have got apologies from the newspaper, several ministers from the Danish government, and now also from the public...

I can't see what more you could ask for?

Peace :biggrin:

(Just click English in the upper right corner if AnotherDenmark appears in Danish)

I believe they're also asking for a law in the EU that basically forbids this from happening again-

"There can be no settlement before an apology and there can be no settlement before laws are legislated by the European Parliament and the parliaments of European countries,"

Taken from:
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1139395375738&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull

---

Shameless plug.

Monqui said:
"There can be no settlement before an apology and there can be no settlement before laws are legislated by the European Parliament and the parliaments of European countries,"

I dont believe that the sites are posted are aiming their apologies at terrorist leaders :smile: (I am a Dane myself)

Andrei: Fakalietsism? lol.

Danish Guys: Don't EVER apologize for being funny. EVER. You guys are the original badasses of the tribal european world and you invented that funny O with the / through it. Don't EVER let anyone tell you that you're not cool.

Orph: hi

Everyone else: My opinion is really unchangeable, and it is as follows: Yes, the muslims have a right to be offended, but not any more important of a right of free expression that the Danes seem to be chastized for. the Muslims have carried it too far, time to move on with our lives, no matter how crappy and opressed they are.

---

I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

For my own two cents, I would have to simply say that neither side has the right to wave flags and speak for "the people."

The concept of democratic freedom is as much a cultish mindset as that of being some kind of martyr to god. Both sides are immovable but the question is not of opinions, but rather who the propagandists are.

The Danish newspaper are not the voice of Denmark or Europe, they are a bunch journalists that tried to shift copies by using controversy. That's their job, despite all their flag waving and "freedom" ranting, for all intents and purposes they were selling something. If they were that devoted to this censorship "cause" they would have surely had some kind of march or demonstration, or at the very least handed out their paper for free. Didn't happen.

Similarly, while many Muslims found the idea of the cartoons offensive, the actual ones crying for blood have their own political agendas, and fighting in the name of god is a cushy way to get people to join them.

Who wants to be against "God", or "Freedom"?!

Well I say f**k you both, I don't have to choose a side just because Danish Hacks and Muslim Dictators draw a line in the sand. Neither speak for me, or for that matter the majority of the world. I don't particularly care and you can't make me untill someone declares war.

Okay, just to clarify: I really don't care either. Like Mephs. He's my coatbuddy.

---

I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com