do u acept death?

The problem is I want to see a topic go from beginning to ending without the need to mention anyone, and I do not mean just me, ANYONES name being quoted.

If I said something so hateful, or more accurately, so contrary to the general atmosphere of this site, I would still ONLY expect to hear an opposing viewpoint. No mentioning of names are necessary to express total disdain.

If someone were to upset me, the chances are pretty good that I would simply voice my vehement opposite view without actually saying "So and So, you are so freaking off base and heres why..."

Anyway, if you do not see that I am constantly on the defensive NOT because I said anything I am ashamed of, but because I am specifically called out to do battle.

If that doesn't make sense, or somehow you still fail to see it as such, I am sorry but... Thats how I see things. and.. Quite honestly I am tired. Tired enough to consider another hiatus.

This constant 56k issue I have to deal with and a total lack of time makes me question why I waste it on... Other people and their serious lack of concern for my dilemma.

In the end, if people persist in naming me specifically, the decision will be so much easier. Anyone should be able to make their position WHATEVER THAT IS perfectly well without naming names.

/feeling sorry for myself.

---

The best things in life, aren't things.

When i die, i wanna go out with a bang, so that people will say, boy, he definately picked a way to die.

When im dead sick or something similiar then i'd appreciate it if the people that cared about me dropped from a plane at 30.000FT. Should definately be an interesting way to step out of the ride.

---

RUST Gamedesign
pepper design

The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee.

@ reaper.

I think what bothers me most is that few here take a stand against my views. They take a stand against ME! They set themselves up as judge, jury and hangman by clearly stating that "I" am wrong.

If I had to say what 1 thing I despise most about online discussions that would be it. So few people actually know how to discuss. Even less have any idea exactly what is required of them when doing it.

I could be so wrong that anyone with half a brain could see it but tact and etiquette dictates that you never take the position of godhood. You couldn't possibly be in any position to know I am wrong. At least, not nearly as often as you want to believe.

On many occasions, I am positive that I am correct. I do not have the credentials, nor the literature to back it up. Only time will tell, and quite honestly, for many of you it will be quite some time indeed.

I am serious about one point however. If someone, anyone doesn't learn how to take an opposing position without being so hateful....

---

The best things in life, aren't things.

reaper47 said:
wtf... do i acpet def?
This thread is nothing but a cheap rip-off of all the religon-discussions which have been... discussed to death.

:rolleyes: Totenhosen...

---

I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

Orph you bring every thing apon yourself. You respond in a way that insites people to counter that respons, which you then turn around into a personal attack on you. From there you change the argument into some abstract, off topic, rant.

If I put myself to work looking through the forum's archives for all the threads where we, as a community, have concluded after one squabble or another that the drama our regulars habitually create is ultimately worth the overall contribution of those regulars to the site, I don't think I could manage the task within a week.

We're not breaking new ground. We've covered this. Our members are entitled to be as disagreeable, abrasive, stubborn, arrogant, extreme, or elitist as they so please, so long as their constructive output surpasses whatever mild negativity they engender.

And in the pursuit of constructive contribution, I'll offer my response to the thread's original question.

In my opinion, it isn't useful to even consider death or an afterlife. I could put it to the world's staunchest mystics to prove to me any supposition they entertain about what happens to the human consciousness after the body dies, and I doubt they could convince me of anything. What matters to me is what happens here on Earth while I am alive. Whether I see black, get reborn, or have some creator of mine meet me after my act is over to tell me how I did doesn't matter to me - I can't help which option turns out to be the truth. The afterlife is irrelevant to life.

Some interesting thoughts to get discussion going:

I tried to read Kierkegaard's Fear and Trembling and downed the introduction before I had to pause and make sense of what I'd read. The author presents the idea that a true Christian - or anyone who believes in any kind of eternal life at all - would hardly consider death. If you and everyone else are going to live forever in one form or place or another, why should you care who dies? - why should you care if you die? Something to think about for the religious among us.

Cassius said:
If you and everyone else are going to live forever in one form or place or another, why should you care who dies? - why should you care if you die? Something to think about for the religious among us.

Perhaps leaving behind personal connections in this life saddens people?

I don't really know, but like you I feel content to focus on this life without worrying overmuch about what comes after. That being said, I hope I live, and live well, until I lose my mental faculties. After that, I hope I drop dead so as not to be a burden on my family.

DrGlass said:
Orph you bring every thing apon yourself. You respond in a way that insites people to counter that respons, which you then turn around into a personal attack on you. From there you change the argument into some abstract, off topic, rant.

No, you are dead wrong.. AND I mean that literally, not generally. Let me clarify because I so rarely point directly at anyone.

As you all know, I am and have never been a racist individual. I doubt that I have a hand full of races that are not part of my genetic background, and of those, I think they are part of my extended family so it is pretty safe to say that I have at least one representative of almost every nationality.

Example: If I were to say "Everyone should own a n****r and beat them daily for their disobedience"

The proper response should be: I think all races are free people and no one should ever own one much less beat one.

Snarkpit's most common response however is: Orph, how the hell can you say such. You have issues and need to see a doctor.

Now I ask, "How the hell does this bring anything upon myself?" Yes its an extreme example but not that far of a stretch. The only thing I bring upon myself is the continuation of associating with people who are so self righteous that they think their internet distance can secure them from my retribution. This security causes them to say things to ME, that they would never dream of saying to someone else in their own home..

I do believe that many/most of my replies are abrasive and/or harmful to the general mentality of the younger among us but I still believe that if that same youth would LEARN how to have a proper discussion that far fewer of these heated ones would arise.

Doc, you are one of the prime candidates for this. You often cause scenes with members here with your inability to stay neutral or dispassionate. You have no qualms about pointing fingers at people when a more general comment would have rendered the exact same point.

Now I ask you, why can you, and the rest of you who fall into this category, not learn that it takes more than one individual to fight. I am not a lone here. If there is an argument then the rest of the parties involved SHARE THE BLAME!

If I do bring this upon myself, then I look onto you as the person bringing since you are positive that I am the RECIPIENT!

---

The best things in life, aren't things.

I've read Kierkegaard. His postulations for those who are afterlife-believers are obviously those of someone who is not. Yes, we would not care who dies or when or why, IF we were 100%free of emotions and only cared about ourselves and invariably took the path that lead to the greatest possible gain for ourselves, but being human we do not do that (despite that it is human nature for the most part). Also, for Christians' belief in an afterlife is tied inseparably to thier beliefs in caring about others. But that is assuming that the Christian in question does in fact care for others as he or she is supposed to.

Orph: Why should Doc stay "neutral and dispassionate?" Is he not a user like anyone else and therefore entitled to his own opinions and passions which may or may not lay in the grounds of "neutral?"

---

I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

Nickelplate said:
Orph: Why should Doc stay "neutral and dispassionate?" Is he not a user like anyone else and therefore entitled to his own opinions and passions which may or may not lay in the grounds of "neutral?"

Are you playing with words again Nickel? You know full well that taken out of context, it sounds like I am asking him to be a statue or some other inane object.

Thats hardly the case. You must take the entire reply into account because it sets the groundwork for an understanding of "How" the topic unfolded.

I think thats basically why you end up on the s**tty end of so many sticks. You want to pick at scabs instead of finding the issue that made the wound in the first place.

You cannot dissect replies. They will never make sense.

When I say neutral and dispassionate" it means you do not get angry and start naming specific members by title/name.

You know thats what I meant and taking it deliberately out of context only adds to the confusion. It doesn't solve it. :razz:
Stop causing trouble by adding fuel to the confusion please.

---

The best things in life, aren't things.

My reply has mysteriously gone missing.

edit - nm - altho hardly surprising considering the state of the FF code here :razz:

I take it this site isn't very compatible with the newest versions of Firefox?

This site is actually the only reason why I haven't upgraded yet.

[edit]

I've had some problems with FF lately, so I'll upgrade now, hope it doesn't mess things up too much.

---

What the Snarkpitters listen to!

Judging by some of the garbled replies of late OtZman, I don't think
the site is overly keen on Firefox at all. Dragging Lep away from his
duties elsewhere is a mission incomprehensible indeed. However, I have
had fine experiences with the 'Pit since December so I can't complain.
Even if you update Firefox i'm sure you'd still get the same shizzle
without errors. The crazy code might be to do with the JS interface?

Ok,
tried updating now, a few small things look a bit strange, also I had
to reset "Font", "Size" and "Font Colour" to be able to post this.

Updated to version 1.5.0.4, btw.

[edit]
Also, a bunch of my old plugins/themes have stoped working... and I had to copy paste my old message when editing this reply as it disappeared. Seems like junk code appears in black at the bottom of the reply.

---

What the Snarkpitters listen to!

Picking scabs for confusion-fuel is my hobby, sorry.

I think what everyone who is "against" you is trying to say is that you always say inflammatory things and then act like everyone else needs to not get thier emotions in gear after you insult them. Like when you said "I think thats basically why you end up on the s**tty end of so many sticks."

That's prety inflammatory, and lots of people would tell you to go F. off. Anyway, you can't say things like that and expect everyone else to stay neutral and not get pissed.

---

I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

OtZman, that happened to me too. You have to go to your preferences page and disable Java.

OtZman, that happened to me too. You have to go to your preferences page and disable Java.

Thanks, seems to work now. Miss those nice dropdown menus though. I guess it's either them or problem free posting.

---

What the Snarkpitters listen to!

Nickelplate said:
Yes, we would not care who dies or when or why, IF we were 100%free of emotions and only cared about ourselves and invariably took the path that lead to the greatest possible gain for ourselves, but being human we do not do that (despite that it is human nature for the most part).

Were it "human nature" to collapse in grief almost reflexively upon hearing of a death, your point would stand. We know all too well, however, that it is possible - and, more than possible, common, if not universal, if not a natural and necessary capacity of the human mind - to be desensitized to tragedy. It seems to me that certain outlooks - for example, a belief that whoever dies will go on to live forever in one form or another - would, if sincerely held, be more than capable of allowing someone to shrug off death.

If I thought that, no matter what, I would be eventually reunited with my family eternally in heaven, their deaths would trouble me only in the same way that any similarly long absence of theirs would.

---

[Im_invisible] "I would suck a man off, but only for sustenance."

yes, Cassius. Lots of people cry before prolonged separations, though. Plus, if you know that there is either an eternity in heaven or one in hell, and you don't know in which your newly-deceased will be interred, you might be worried or frightened.

I know I am sad when people die, but perhaps it is not really for the person. I don't feel sorry for them if they are dead because to feel anything for the dead is an exercise in vanity; they either are in heaven or hell (or purgatory if you beleive in that) and niether one can be changed from where I stand in relation to thier corpse. I feel more sorry that they are gone. And perhaps sorry at the loss of the part of my life that they had become. And if you are an empathetic person, you may feel sorrow at the sorrow of your friends who have lost a loved one.

---

I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

Orph: Alright, I have to appoligize for my last post. To be beife, if some one responds "how can you say ______, thats horrible" its just as wrong to respond "how dare you question my opinion!" We all need to let things go, because most of the time its trivial (infact most anything on an internet forum is).

as for the topic.

I don't fear death, or feel all to sad for a dead person (under normal circumstances) or their family for that matter. I do feel sad that an entire life of experiance is now gone. Its like a million billion tereabit harddrive crashing, not to trivialize life... I mean, I doupt the corpse cares much that they are dead and if they were alive, I know I wouldn't want people to drop everything and cry for me.
Death is just what we do.

Let's play argument kung fu. I don't want to be the one "reasonable" while others consequently prove anybody wrong who disagrees. Internet forums do get personal. What a surprise. We're not politicians, faking our way through television debates. We're emotional. How bad and disgusting. Or not? An opinion isn't holy. I can question it. If it's my opinion that I should pull out a gun and kill everyone in a local supermarket then please criticze me and don't friggin' "respect" it.

You don't have to make arguments sound like a goddamn massacre of hate at my grandma's funeral. What a surprise it provokes and someone gets personal. Using such a provoking language in such a sensitive topic is as much bad discussion technique as mentioning somebody else personally. At least. And as long as posters won't realize that we'll have thousands of posts about "not understanding why someone got personally attacked". Provoking posts will provoke some people. What a surprise. We have to live with it. No wait - we just have to make them sound less offensive and pretentious. Then complaints about getting personal would become understandable.

i agree that you don't have to respect oppinions
but at least realize that it is an oppinion or that noone here is always claiming everything they say is a fact
most of the things said here are oppinions or theories, you don't have to respect them but at least realize that that is what they are

What gets me is when people try to pass off opinions as fact. Ie. someone has a different opinion and therefore calls yours wrong.

If I said the world was flat, you could say no, in fact its round. You were wrong.

But if I say that most people at funerals cared for the person in the casket, and you disagreed, you couldn't claim, by fact, that I was wrong. Unless you could link me a study or survey. :smile:

What gets me is when people try to pass off opinions as fact. Ie. someone has a different opinion and therefore calls yours wrong.
If I said the world was flat, you could say no, in fact its round. You were wrong.
But if I say that most people at funerals cared for the person in the casket, and you disagreed, you couldn't claim, by fact, that I was wrong. Unless you could link me a study or survey.

no, wrong.

Fact is opinion with substance. An expression of fact suggests a latent opinion.

Right. Whatever facts you choose to present are indicative of your opinion.

It seems to me the majority of discussions/fights on Snarkpit don't deal with researchable issues.

so if i state that the world is flat, it's only an opinion?

---

i eat paint

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>・quoting fishy</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>so if i state that the world is flat, it's only an opinion?</DIV></DIV>

I don't know what verbal trap I'm walking into, but yes I think that's only an opinion, and not a fact.

And just in case there's any confusion, when I say opinion I mean the first definition on m-w.com: a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter.

reaper47 said:
then please criticze me and don't friggin' "respect" it.

That's what I never understood. How can you disagree with something, and "respect" it at the same time. That makes you a hypocrite. You can respectfully disagree, but when you beleive that your opinion is right, and someone else says that yours is wrong, you can't agree with them too.

---

I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

"It is a mark of an educated mind, to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle

case and point: i, as an american, see radical islam as terrorism. at the same time, though, can understand that we seem the same way to them. it's a difference in culture and general upbringing. i don't agree with their opinion, but respect it. to be clear, though, they are wrong. wrong as wrong can be.

about death, though.. i can't honestly say i'll accept it. to accept death is to give up on survival. i plan on surviving as long as my body allows. =D

---

the players tried to take the field
the marching band refused to yield

Bewbies, Seeing someone else's point of view and "respecting thier views as equally valid" even though they contradic your own are two diferent things...

---

I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

you can't really see someone's point of view without respecting it, and understanding it. ..additionally, you can't dismiss it without understanding it.

---

the players tried to take the field
the marching band refused to yield

My 20th birthday was one of the worst days of my life- knowing that it was at best 1/4 of my life, and yet it has gone in a blink of an eye. And from what I hear it gets faster.

I'm not so worried that death is the end, more the fact that the end is too soon. A year passess by so quickly, and at best you might get 80 or 90 of them... not really that many in all honesty.

---

-[Better to be Honest than Kind]-

You can understand and not respect, Bewbies. I understand WHY lots of my underage friends go out and drink with the express purpose of getting hammered, they do it because it's wrong, and doing things that are wrong and not getting caught is exciting and fun and egdy, etc... I understand why they do, but I don't respect thier decisions to do so, and I think that thier opinion that it is okay is utterly wrong.

I think you can understand, respect, agree/disagree separately.

---

I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

My 20th birthday was one of the worst days of my life- knowing that it was at best 1/4 of my life, and yet it has gone in a blink of an eye. And from what I hear it gets faster.
I'm not so worried that death is the end, more the fact that the end is too soon. A year passess by so quickly, and at best you might get 80 or 90 of them... not really that many in all honesty.

tell that to a person who get a life sentence.

I agree with bewb and AtM.

I think the only hypocritical thing anyone can do is assume that their opinions on absolutely abstract concepts are infallible. None of us can ever understand what or why a person thinks the way they do. We try, I mean that's why we all talk on these other wise trivial forums. Like I've said before, I argue not because I want to sway people over to my opinion, but because I want to have a greater understanding for myself.

to understand something, you've got to respect it.. otherwise, you're too blinded by the bias created of your own opinion. respect is.. deference. acknowledgement?

---

the players tried to take the field
the marching band refused to yield

Bewbs, i disagree. there's plenty of sick and twisted reasoning that i can understand, but i have no respect for it.

---

i eat paint

I UNDERSTAND that pedophiles think little kids look sexy, I don't respect that opinion.

It takes a mind grounded in logic but not completely governed by it to understand how others feel and still disagree. I mean, I understand what you mean when you say what you say, and I know how you could think what you are thinking, but I still disagree.

An opinion is something that YOU think to be true. If something is true, then the opposite is false. How can you say "I respect that as an equally valid opinion" and still think yours is any more right than anyone elses? All that will accomplish is a society of uncertainty, where you don't know ANYTHING that is right, all we would do is go around all day "respecting" eachother's opinions. True cannot be right if False is right. And if you beleive that your opinion is right, there is no way that someone opposing you can be "equally valid in your mind, unless you really aren't sure whether you are right to begin with.

---

I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

Bewbies said:
i don't agree with their opinion, but respect it. to be clear, though, they are wrong. wrong as wrong can be.

What, exactly, does that respect entail?

seems respect is being defined differently.. respect isn't a specific form of compliment. it's an expression of deference. in the case of opinions, you're ridding yourself of bias through deference. leveling the playing field.

pedophiles deserve no respect, but their opinions do.

---

the players tried to take the field
the marching band refused to yield

Bewbies said:
pedophiles deserve no respect, but their opinions do.

Their opinions on sexual matters or unrelated issues?

There seems to be a huge difference in the way the word "respect" is used in English compared to other languages (like mine). For me respect means positive acceptance. And I always read it that way in English language which is probably a mistake. Then again I found this:

http://www.hyperdictionary.com/search.aspx?define=respect

... which defines respect pretty much the way I do. How can I then respect, for example, the opinions of a terrorist? I can understand, try to understand, but respect means that I actually wouldn't prefer the terrorists to think differently which is not the case. I can accept them though. Just like I have to accept death.
____________________________________________________
Anyway, my only point in the last few posts'o'rant were about extreme and loud statements turning forum threads into personal wars so often. Personal, like my own posts. I'm feeling bad about it but it just bursted out.

re?spect ( P ) Pronunciation Key (r-spkt)
tr.v. re?spect?ed, re?spect?ing, re?spects

• To feel or show deferential regard for; esteem.
• To avoid violation of or interference with: respect the speed limit.
• To relate or refer to; concern.

AtM, opinions deserve respect in general.. that's my belief, anyway. =P

---

the players tried to take the field
the marching band refused to yield

I find that interesting.

I think that there's a difference between American and European discussion culture (not the theoretical, idealistic papers, I mean the real thing, the way people actually talk). I prefere the American, probably more respectful way mostly but often it comes to a kind of kamikaze respect I cannot follow. I would never write that I respect the opinions or behavior of hateful or hurting people, political extremists, for example. I guess that happens where it interferes with some ground values, most of which are part of constitutional rights anyway. That's the point where my respect stops. Maybe even earlier, except for some entirely scientific or cultural aspects where I cannot be sure if my opinion is correct or better than that of my opponent. Discussions about religion for example. I could never deny respect to a religious person just because I'm an atheist. That is until it doesn't interfere with other peoples life.

Respect is something I reserve for ideologies I truly feel to have a positive influence on people, nature or culture. Only few things do neither of these, though, so I respect a lot. It still is a word I use sparingly (at least in my mother tounge) because for me it mostly means a state of admiration.

I define respect like two soldiers in the American Civil war. They "respected" each other, some were brothers for gosh sakes, but they were still enemies and would without hesitation kill each other.

Sometimes I think where all our discussions go badly is that few of us want to take credit for when/where that event happens.

(Yeah, I have been gone days, and have actually forgotten about this thread till just now.)

I wanna back up to where I was, when I left.. Then proceed.

Doc Glass. I honestly do not feel that you need to apologize. What I do however believe is that you should consider that some of us get offended at different ideals/concepts than others.

Lets assume that "I" started this by saying that I feel that all funerals should be banned. That could be viewed as the turning point of the discussion.

Now lets assume that the turning point was one reply before my outburst. Who here is in any position to know how offended I get at the idea of a funeral except me? How would anyone except me judge that my comment was justified?

See, the problem is that people assume that everyone shares the belief that good=good. This simply is untrue. I cannot imagine that all funerals are bad, but of the ones I have attended, all have been. One must ask, is it worth dragging me into a flamewar over a concept that you did not share with me or should we simply keep allowing each other to comment openly without the need to be hateful?

Anyway, that needs to be food for thought. Don't apologize. If you felt it necessary to call me out into the street for a duel, at least defend your right to stand out there and look foolish.

---

The best things in life, aren't things.

As this thread scattered to bits anyway... I'd like to tell you, Orpheus, that your last post about you getting offended much earlier (and probably outside what you can see in this thread) really helps me to see your comments in a different light.

I, btw, never fought your opinions. It's entirely about the vocabulary. "Should be shot" especially is a phrase that I would never use. Maybe it's a language thing (as there could be phrases in German that sound much more offensive in English, too, I don't know) but it's like saying... "I'll cut their throats when they sleep!!!!" or "Someone should stick scissors in their rotten eyes!" ahem... Well, you know what I try to say. I saw this as the turning point, not even the actual content of the post.

And I think it's a waste. I could agree with a lot of it, especially the part about most people not wanting to go to funerals anyway and all the hollow talking. But it's hard to even get to that point of the discussion because I can't agree with "people being shot" no matter how much you attenuate this phrase to a metaphor. It's like a wall. And it's the reason the discussion turned out wrong, in a way. You could have written that differently and it could have been integrated in the discussion much better and there wouldn't be as much misunderstanding. So in some way, I just thought it's a waste.

Reaper, your posts are getting better and well-thought-out. As for the cultural difference, you will find that in America at least, things never mean what they REALLY mean, if you understand. So many words have been turned around to mean other things that nothing is original anymore... We have the political correctness movement making everyday words like "fat" or "ugly" into bad words. We have the feminist movement trying to change the spelling of "women" so it does not include the word "men." We have so many other movements trying to change words around that sometimes even Americans don't get it.

That third definition is a literary one. it's not refering to a person or DEFERING but i would be like when someone says, "The ladder and the Hook, fell down respectively."

---

I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

I sometimes hate it how these threads turn into ... <span style="color: black;">extremely s**tty pissing contests and e-penis comparisons.

:sad: As for the original topic: there will always be a time when a system
shuts down permanently. Grinded wheat will not grow anymore. I've
learned to accept this. One day this body will shutdown on me and I
will be gone like a burning paper dissappearing in the wind... :razz:

I'll head forward from here. Have fun.

</span>

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''Everyone wades in s**t until they're competent enough to walk on it. Jesus style.''
Dystopia - Empires