As far as I know Islam does not teach the violence that many of its members seem to commit, they are dilusional zealots who stray from the true teachings of Islam
correct me if i'm wrong

Well "islam" is just what you interprete into it. From what I read about the seemingly untranslatable koran no passage clearly allows the killing of innocents only because they live in a non-islamistic country.

Yeah, the Qur'an says in it that those who aren't believers, or 'infidels' need to be killed.

Did you read that in the Koran/Qur'an?

Cassius said:
<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Nickelplate</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>If a religious text says to spread its religion by the word and to take over countries and to kill people who do not beleive in it, then anyone who believes in that religious text and therefore that religion is a terrorist. Anyone who has a more liberal interpretation of that religious text is not truly following that religion.

Ignorance is bliss? Bulls**t. Ignorance is Nickelplate.</div></div>

Dude, screw you. If you beleive that something is "absolute truth" then how can you have anything but absolute obedience to it?

If you have a piece of paper that says "Gravity exists" and you say that you beleive that it is absolutely true, then you walk off the edge of a skyscraper, then you either didn't REALLY beleive in it, or you have chosen to disregard the absolute truth.

You, sir, are ignorant. Wilfully ignorant of anything that does not agree with your comfortable little sphere of college-professor-induced liberalism.

---

I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

Interpreting the Koran in a way that allows terrorist attacks means reading it out of context. Ironically the same way the pope's quote was mentioned out of context....

There are scary things written in the Bible, too. People used words of the bible to justify the most inhumane things.

Fact is millions of people are living under the guidance of the koran and we cannot change it. If you say that the koran does not allow being peaceful and declining terrorism while there are so many people following the book - what is your suggestion? If you go as far as to say this then you should also say what you think is the only way of ending this crisis.

Mass brain-washing of mulims to become christians? That is what I have in mind if someone says that the koran is a book that propagates terror.

Nickelplate said:
If you have a piece of paper that says "Gravity exists" and you say that you beleive that it is absolutely true, then you walk off the edge of a skyscraper, then you either didn't REALLY beleive in it, or you have chosen to disregard the absolute truth.

or a 3rd reason could be that you did REALLY believe that gravity existed, and having read too many religion threads, decided to embrace it.

---

i eat paint

lol, I think religion threads make a good 20% of postcounts on the snarkpit :biggrin:

reaper47 said:
lol, I think religion threads make a good 20% of postcounts on the snarkpit :biggrin:

I agree. Maybe more.

---

I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

They also make up some of the best posts of all.

---

Dark_Kilauea
DVS Administration
http://www.dvstudio-production.com/

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Nickelplate</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>You, sir, are ignorant. Wilfully ignorant of anything that does not agree with your comfortable little sphere of college-professor-induced liberalism.</DIV></DIV>I'm in high school, Nick. Try again sometime.

Do you believe that it is a disgrace for women to speak in church? No? Then you must not be a true Christian!

Do you believe that you should spread Islam by force? No? Then you must not be a true Muslim!

Faith bends to the believer. Like it or not, if you divine your beliefs from religious scripture, your interpretation is subjective, and does pick and choose what parts to believe in and what parts to disregard. It is obviously within the capacity of a practicing Muslim to ignore whatever the Qu'ran's calls to religious violence, just as it is obviously within the capacity of certain practicing Christians to disregard passages of the New Testament such as Jesus' "camel through the eye of a needle" comment. You can be a Muslim without being violent.

Cass, the eye of the needle was what one of the city gates, a very small one, was called. camels could get through, but only walking on their knees, which is a difficult thing to make a camel do.

---

i eat paint

Cassius said:
<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Nickelplate</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>You, sir, are ignorant. Wilfully ignorant of anything that does not agree with your comfortable little sphere of college-professor-induced liberalism.

I'm in high school, Nick. Try again sometime.

You've been to Stanford for a writing program.

Do you believe that it is a disgrace for women to speak in church? No? Then you must not be a true Christian!

That rule was only for the women of the church in Corinth, because they gossiped instead of listening to sermons. Try again sometime.

Do you believe that you should spread Islam by force? No? Then you must not be a true Muslim!

If the book says it, and you beleive it, why would you not do it?

Faith bends to the believer. Like it or not, if you divine your beliefs from religious scripture, your interpretation is subjective, and does pick and choose what parts to believe in and what parts to disregard. It is obviously within the capacity of a practicing Muslim to ignore whatever the Qu'ran's calls to religious violence, just as it is obviously within the capacity of certain practicing Christians to disregard passages of the New Testament such as Jesus' "camel through the eye of a needle" comment. You can be a Muslim without being violent.</div></div>

To a certain extent, I agree. Everyone's interpretation of scripture is different. But some things like "Kill all infidels" is the kind of thing that cannot be taken more than one way.

The eye of the needle, was indeed a gate.
And yes, you can be a muslim without being violent. But how can you tell each muslim's interpretation? If they disregard that part of the Qu'ran, who'd know? Every muslim has the potential to take that part literally at any time even if they don't now.

---

I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

<DIV class=quotetitle>? posted by fishy</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>we need the spacemen to come back and explain that it's all been a huge misrepresentation of what actually happened.</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>
or a 3rd reason could be that you did REALLY believe that gravity existed, and having read too many religion threads, decided to embrace it.

</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext> stop it fish, yer killin' me.... </DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext> </DIV>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quote:</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>When was the last time you heard of a Buddhist suicide bomber?</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext> these are the kinds of reasons i come back here these days.... </DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>
Dude, screw you. If you beleive that something is "absolute truth" then how can you have anything but absolute obedience to it?

are you serious nickel?

this just keeps getting better and better....

Doc B... :dodgy:

</DIV>

DocB - Man, If you beleive that something is ABSOLUTE TRUTH. Then anything else for you is a lie, yes? So why do otherwise.

You can't say one thing and do another. "Yes I beleive that gravity exists. Now, you'll have to excuse me while I walk off the side of this tower." It's the same as a Jew saying "I beleive in the old testament laws, now let's have some Bacon!" or a Muslim saying "The Koran is absolute truth, let's make love to multiple american women."

---

I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

A huge list of calls to slaughter and terrorism in the Bible:

http://www.unmoralische.de/gott.htm

The website's in German, unfourtunately, but I tried to translate a few of the things mentioned:

Ezekiel 9:4-11
and said to him, "Go throughout the city of Jerusalem and put a mark on the foreheads of those who grieve and lament over all the detestable things that are done in it."
As I listened, he said to the others, "Follow him through the city and kill, without showing pity or compassion.
Slaughter old men, young men and maidens, women and children, but do not touch anyone who has the mark. Begin at my sanctuary." So they began with the elders who were in front of the temple.
Then he said to them, "Defile the temple and fill the courts with the slain. Go!" So they went out and began killing throughout the city.
While they were killing and I was left alone, I fell facedown, crying out, "Ah, Sovereign LORD! Are you going to destroy the entire remnant of Israel in this outpouring of your wrath on Jerusalem?"
He answered me, "The sin of the house of Israel and Judah is exceedingly great; the land is full of bloodshed and the city is full of injustice. They say, 'The LORD has forsaken the land; the LORD does not see.'
So I will not look on them with pity or spare them, but I will bring down on their own heads what they have done."
Then the man in linen with the writing kit at his side brought back word, saying, "I have done as you commanded."

Hosea 13:16
Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.

Matthew 10:34
"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

Luke 19:27
But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

Numbers 24:8
God brought him forth out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn: he shall eat up the nations his enemies, and shall break their bones, and pierce them through with his arrows.

Samuel 12:31
And he brought forth the people that were therein, and put them under saws, and under harrows of iron, and under axes of iron, and made them pass through the brick-kiln: and thus did he unto all the cities of the children of Ammon. So David and all the people returned unto Jerusalem.

Exodus 32:26-27
Then Moses stood in the gate of the camp, and said, Who is on the LORD'S side? let him come unto me. And all the sons of Levi gathered themselves together unto him.
And he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour.


Please, start "interpreting", Nickelplate.

All of those except two of them are in the OLD TESTAMENT. Which Christianity holds as secondary to the New Testament. Anything like these verses are overridden by Jesus commands to love everyone as ourselves.

Matthew 10:34 is a verse not to be taken out of context. He's talking about the "sword" that will divide families of Jews who follow him.

Luke 19:27 Is the words of a mean guy in a parable. Try again Later.

---

I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

By the power invested in me by the evangelic lutherian church I bless you all.

Before you think I'm joking let me tell you a funny fact: I've actually
gone through some religious schooling that allows me to do this. I can
actually bless my peers with my churches permission(Well actually only
people from my church, but in my eyes all of you deserve to be
blessed). :smile:

---

''Everyone wades in s**t until they're competent enough to walk on it. Jesus style.''
Dystopia - Empires

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quote:</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>Cass, the eye of the needle was what one of the city gates, a very small one, was called. camels could get through, but only walking on their knees, which is a difficult thing to make a camel do. </DIV></DIV>That's spectacular. The sentiment of the passage remains clear: rich men and heaven don't mix.
<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Nickelplate</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>You've been to Stanford for a writing program.</DIV></DIV>Next time you've been proven to have made a baseless assumption, just cede that you made a mistake rather than making a bigger ass of yourself. They didn't slip in too much pinko indoctrination between the lectures on scansion.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quote:</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>That rule was only for the women of the church in Corinth, because they gossiped instead of listening to sermons.</DIV></DIV>Don't get me wrong - I never doubted for a second that your dedicated Biblical apologists could shout themselves livid claiming that the instances of patent sexism and calls to violence in their scripture don't really count.

The "well, the Old Testament really isn't our thing" defense is tired and absurd: once you remove its books from the Canon, then you can claim that it isn't representative of your faith.

Accept it: facets of each Abrahamic religion simply do not mesh with today's politics and are ignored.

By the power invested in me by the evangelic lutherian church I bless you all.

Much appreciated.

What's the back story on that blessing thing, Pvt?

? quote:
That rule was only for the women of the church in Corinth, because they gossiped instead of listening to sermons.Don't get me wrong - I never doubted for a second that your dedicated Biblical apologists could shout themselves livid claiming that the instances of patent sexism and calls to violence in their scripture don't really count.
The letters were instructions from evangelists to other evangelists, if one of the suggestions was to keep the women in their church quiet, because they were making it a forum for gossip, what's wrong with that?

Rich men and heaven don't mix.

Makes sense, heaven isn't a material place, rather it involves the opposite of materialism. Those who have more are less likely to give it up.

It certainly isn't impossible, it's just hard.

---

Also change the texture of the dock. Docks are rarely tile. -Facepunch
As I Lay Dying

It is disrespectful for your women to speak during the service.

/

Let the women keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is a disgrace for a woman to speak in church.

You're right, not impossible.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Cassius</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quote:</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>Cass, the eye of the needle was what one of the city gates, a very small one, was called. camels could get through, but only walking on their knees, which is a difficult thing to make a camel do. </DIV></DIV>
That's spectacular. The sentiment of the passage remains clear: rich men and heaven don't mix.

[color=red]Not if they sinned to get rich. It is not IMPOSSIBLE for rich men to get into heaven. Just like a camel can get through the gate by walking on its knees, A rich man must also make sure to humble himself on his knees. But it's harder for a rich man to make himself do that.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Nickelplate</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>You've been to Stanford for a writing program.</DIV></DIV>
Next time you've been proven to have made a baseless assumption, just cede that you made a mistake rather than making a bigger ass of yourself. They didn't slip in too much pinko indoctrination between the lectures on scansion.

Well, I sure hope you had fun.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quote:</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>That rule was only for the women of the church in Corinth, because they gossiped instead of listening to sermons.</DIV></DIV>
Don't get me wrong - I never doubted for a second that your dedicated Biblical apologists could shout themselves livid claiming that the instances of patent sexism and calls to violence in their scripture don't really count.[/color]

Well they don't...

The "well, the Old Testament really isn't our thing" defense is tired and absurd: once you remove its books from the Canon, then you can claim that it isn't representative of your faith.

Okay, then we must take the historical references to failed theories and systems from our science books, too. Because references to "Inheritance of accuired traits" and "a geocentric solar system" are representative of modern science because they are still IN the science books.

Accept it: facets of each Abrahamic religion simply do not mesh with today's politics and are ignored.

Yeah, they are ignored. But I think that they should not be.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quote:</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>By the power invested in me by the evangelic lutherian church I bless you all.</DIV></DIV>
Much appreciated.

</DIV></DIV>

Ditto.

---

I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

Cassius, the argument about the old testament does hold, it's not just an overused pathetic argument (for example, mac mice only have one button so windows is better:roll:), the fact is, God sent Jesus and and Jesus was like, hey that's not right and contradicted/corrected a lot of the old testament
this is why that argument holds true and you can't really follow the old testament straight up anymore

also, as a Catholic, i don't translate the Bible literally

Well, that was my argument, actually. I'm almost a 100% sure you don't know as much about the koran as you know about the bible. Now just add the differences between the old arabic and english language, metaphors we never heared about and you get into interpretation mayhem.

I do not deny that the koran is a violent and scary book, btw. It's more violent and direct than the Bible has ever been. All I say is that we have to live with its popularity and find a way to convince its followers to a less literal and proably "corrected" version of it.

The text of the bible was re-written and re-interpreted many times but no-one managed to make christians let go of the book completely.

PS:

Mac mice only have one button so windows is better

That's a perfectly valuable argument. On macs you constantly have to press control for the easiest clicking operations.

reaper47 said:
A huge list of calls to slaughter and terrorism in the Bible:

http://www.unmoralische.de/gott.htm

The website's in German, unfourtunately, but I tried to translate a few of the things mentioned:

Ezekiel 9:4-11
and said to him, "Go throughout the city of Jerusalem and put a mark on the foreheads of those who grieve and lament over all the detestable things that are done in it."
As I listened, he said to the others, "Follow him through the city and kill, without showing pity or compassion.
Slaughter old men, young men and maidens, women and children, but do not touch anyone who has the mark. Begin at my sanctuary." So they began with the elders who were in front of the temple.
Then he said to them, "Defile the temple and fill the courts with the slain. Go!" So they went out and began killing throughout the city.
While they were killing and I was left alone, I fell facedown, crying out, "Ah, Sovereign LORD! Are you going to destroy the entire remnant of Israel in this outpouring of your wrath on Jerusalem?"
He answered me, "The sin of the house of Israel and Judah is exceedingly great; the land is full of bloodshed and the city is full of injustice. They say, 'The LORD has forsaken the land; the LORD does not see.'
So I will not look on them with pity or spare them, but I will bring down on their own heads what they have done."
Then the man in linen with the writing kit at his side brought back word, saying, "I have done as you commanded."

Hosea 13:16
Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.

Matthew 10:34
"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

Luke 19:27
But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

Numbers 24:8
God brought him forth out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn: he shall eat up the nations his enemies, and shall break their bones, and pierce them through with his arrows.

Samuel 12:31
And he brought forth the people that were therein, and put them under saws, and under harrows of iron, and under axes of iron, and made them pass through the brick-kiln: and thus did he unto all the cities of the children of Ammon. So David and all the people returned unto Jerusalem.

Exodus 32:26-27
Then Moses stood in the gate of the camp, and said, Who is on the LORD'S side? let him come unto me. And all the sons of Levi gathered themselves together unto him.
And he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour.

Please, start "interpreting", Nickelplate.

Nickelplate said:
And yes, you can be a muslim without being violent. But how can you tell each muslim's interpretation? If they disregard that part of the Qu'ran, who'd know? Every muslim has the potential to take that part literally at any time even if they don't now.

Even though all but two of them are in the old testament they're still there. How can you tell each christian's interpretation? Every christian has the potential to take that one of those parts literally at any time even if they don't now.

We can now easily be ignorant and say that the Bible tells christians to spread terror and violence. Then this must be the reason why the USA, a christian country, started a war with Irak, an islamic country. Further, this must mean that all Americans want to wage war and spread terror against everyone that doesn't share their beliefs.

THIS is a perfect example of the flawed logic people use when they create themselves an opinion about islam. That's what angers me so, how people with abolutely no idea or insight at all judge islam.

Nickelplate said:
The pope can still practice Christian Values while telling the TRUTH about Islam. If you can show me ONE islamic country without oppression, violence and turbans, I'll rescind.

That is not the truth about islam. And I can assure you that there are islamic countries with less oppression and violence than many "western" countries, such as the USA. Islamic countries might have more problems of some sorts, and experience more hardship than "western" or "christian" countries in general, but those problems aren't necessarily related to the religion of the country.

I feel like many are just bashing islam for the sake of bashing. The difference in culture and values is just that. A difference. Some people seem to think that what is different from what they think and are used to is wrong.

Also, I read in the newspaper that the Pope apparently apologized for what he said a few days ago, and that this apology was appreciated by muslims around the world.

---

What the Snarkpitters listen to!

On the subject of interpretation, it's important to realize that the books were translated from other languages into english (or whatever). Some things can get lost in translation (:P).
For example, Mark 6:3
"Is he not the carpenter, the son of Mary, and the brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon?..."
That's because the greek word cousin, adelphoi (&#913;&#916;&#917;&#923;&#934;&#927;&#921;), also means brother.

---

Also change the texture of the dock. Docks are rarely tile. -Facepunch
As I Lay Dying

yeah i used it too, but now they have 5 button mice, i still use it to piss off my mac friends though

what macs have borrowed from their much lesser counterpart :rolleyes: ; windows:

5 button mice
intel processors
oh wait, the entire opperating system because theirs can't run half of the programs
it seems like this list is longer than what i have

My next computer will be a mac 100% for sure.

I get to use 'em in school, and they're a billion times better than PCs.

There's nothing wrong with Macintosh.

I'll cut it straight too: if Windows wasn't the only platform that game developers developed for (or if there was a 100% accurate WineX emulator) I wouldn't be using Windows. Period.

Edit: I should mention ... if WineX did work, all versions (with tweaking) of Unix would be able to play those games. This includes Linux and Mac OSX

---

Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

Well, if you're content with only playing Blizzard games, you could just go with Macs.

OtZman said:
Some people seem to think that what is different from what they think and are used to is wrong.

most westerners think that flying aeroplanes into the trade towers was wrong, and you probably agree. this is the modern face of islam to a large part of the western world, even if it's not the true face. if this isn't true islam, then to lose this face can only be done be real muslims that are willing to stand up to those that have hijacked their religion, instead of standing still, in fear and silence, as many have.

---

i eat paint

oh, I'm sorry, Otzman. I was unaware that the Koran has an "Old Testament." By that I mean, are there parts in the Koran that you are specifically told to disregard in a later part. The bible has this. The Koran doesn't.

Oh, and when's the last time Christians burned the Saudi embassy because of a "jesus" cartoon?

---

I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

Is it explicitely forbidden in the Christian religion to portray Jesus? Didn't think so. If it was, I'm sure you'ld be the first to grab a pitchfork. Otherwise you wouldn't be a true believer, right?

AtM said:
Well, if you're content with only playing Blizzard games, you could just go with Macs.

Well, I've noticed lately that I"m not playing many games, and the games I am playing require such little power that I could play them on this laptop for 3000 years.

I'm also pretty sure that they'll get a solid Windows emulator on a mac in the near future. And if not... whatever.

So yeah, I'm definitely going for a mac.

AtM said:
Well, if you're content with only playing Blizzard games, you could just go with Macs.

Well, I've noticed lately that I"m not playing many games, and the games I am playing require such little power that I could play them on this laptop for 3000 years.

I'm also pretty sure that they'll get a solid Windows emulator on a mac in the near future. And if not... whatever.

So yeah, I'm definitely going for a mac.

TransGaming makes DX emulators (ones that will emulate everything so you can just play the games) for many platforms, but they all have a subscription fee ... which is totally and completely lame.

---

Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

French Toast said:
Is it explicitely forbidden in the Christian religion to portray Jesus? Didn't think so. If it was, I'm sure you'ld be the first to grab a pitchfork. Otherwise you wouldn't be a true believer, right?

Commandment #2: "You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; (9)you shall not bow down to them or serve them"

I love how you know so much about the religion you bash, Frenchy. Try again.

---

I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

Nickelplate said:
<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting French Toast</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>Is it explicitely forbidden in the Christian religion to portray Jesus? Didn't think so. If it was, I'm sure you'ld be the first to grab a pitchfork. Otherwise you wouldn't be a true believer, right?

Commandment #2: "You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; (9)you shall not bow down to them or serve them"

I love how you know so much about the religion you bash, Frenchy. Try again.</div></div>

so "portray" means to make a graven image, and [quote].....the OLD TESTAMENT. Which Christianity holds as secondary to the New Testament.[/quote] can be ignored in times of need?

---

i eat paint

No. I wish more people understood. I wish more people WANTED to understand, so I don't keep having to say this.

The old testament is the Law that god gave his people a long time ago. When he sent Jesus, he created a "New Testament." This means that anything in the New Testament that disagrees with the Old Testament, will supercede that of the Old.

<TABLE class=MsoTableGrid style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-yfti-tbllook: 480; mso-padding-alt: 0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-border-insideh: .5pt solid windowtext; mso-border-insidev: .5pt solid windowtext" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=1>

<TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 0; mso-yfti-firstrow: yes">
<TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; WIDTH: 221.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt" vAlign=top width=295>
<B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">Old Testament</B>

</TD>
<TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 221.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt" vAlign=top width=295>
<B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">New Testament</B>

</TD></TR>
<TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 1">
<TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; WIDTH: 221.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt" vAlign=top width=295>
Take an Eye for an Eye

</TD>
<TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 221.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt" vAlign=top width=295>
Turn the other cheek

</TD></TR>
<TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 2">
<TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; WIDTH: 221.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt" vAlign=top width=295>
Kill those who commit certain sins

</TD>
<TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 221.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt" vAlign=top width=295>
Use scripture to rebuke them

</TD></TR>
<TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 3; mso-yfti-lastrow: yes">
<TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; WIDTH: 221.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt" vAlign=top width=295>
Sacrifice animals to atone for your sins

</TD>
<TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 221.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt" vAlign=top width=295>
Jesus takes animal?s place.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

But the New Testament does not contradict the Old law about graven images, so it still stands. Pretty much, the New Testament has taken the Slavery, Violence and other undesireable parts from the bible because of Jesus' command to love others as ourselves. If you are a CHRISTIAN - someone who beleives in Christ - then you will love others as yourself and you will not take a violent interpretation of any scripture. Nor will you fly planes into a building.

---

I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

Muslims believe in Christ.

D'oh!

grrrr. EVERYONE who is not a complete moron "beleives in Christ."

What I meant was that they beleive in the DIVINITY of Christ. Muslims think he was just a guy, Christians know he was God as well.

---

I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

The Disbelievers

In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
[109.1] Say: O unbelievers!
[109.2] I do not serve that which you serve,
[109.3] Nor do you serve Him Whom I serve:
[109.4] Nor am I going to serve that which you serve,
[109.5] Nor are you going to serve Him Whom I serve:
[109.6] You shall have your religion and I shall have my religion.

I think it was the best course of action politically for the Pope to apologise. However, I don't think he should have been forced or coerced in any fashion to do so. Nor am I sure that his denunciation of what he beleived to be true to be a good thing. [edit] unless he changed his mind on what he thought, which it is good to be able to do.

---

I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

The reason behind my blessing was that I wanted all of you to survive
this religious debate so that you may debate on other more earthly
things next time... and I also just remembered that I'm allowed to do
that. :razz:

---

''Everyone wades in s**t until they're competent enough to walk on it. Jesus style.''
Dystopia - Empires

grrrr. EVERYONE who is not a complete moron "beleives in Christ."
What I meant was that they beleive in the DIVINITY of Christ. Muslims think he was just a guy, Christians know he was God as well.

Well, no.

Christians believe he was God as well. If you disagree with that correction, you're the biggest c**k ever. Christianity is belief, not fact. Especially since there are no facts supporting your claims, and it's 100% impossible to prove that which you stated so factually.

Believe what you will, but do not attempt to belittle other religions by stating yours as fact.

I think it was the best course of action politically for the Pope to apologise. However, I don't think he should have been forced or coerced in any fashion to do so. Nor am I sure that his denunciation of what he beleived to be true to be a good thing. [edit] unless he changed his mind on what he thought, which it is good to be able to do.

I can fully agree with that.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but Christianity believes in Jesus as the son of God?

10-4, this is base - arguments shot down in flames, prepare for crash landing!

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting French Toast</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>
Christians believe he was God as well. If you disagree with that correction, you're the biggest c**k ever. Christianity is belief, not fact. Especially since there are no facts supporting your claims, and it's 100% impossible to prove that which you stated so factually.

Believe what you will, but do not attempt to belittle other religions by stating yours as fact.</DIV></DIV>

But by beleiving in Christianity, you're accepting the part that says "this is the absolute truth."

If you were in a room all alone and you heard a good song playing, then you went out to tell others about it, you'd still KNOW you heard the song because you beleive that you actually heard it. The other people say it was just your imagination playing tricks on you. There is no way for you to prove that you heard the song in the room. Do you only BELEIVE that you heard the song, or do you KNOW that you heard it?

Gwil, The spirit of Jesus was God, the Body was the Son of God. He's both.

10-4

---

I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

That's a crap ass analogy.

The Holy Trinity is a single entity with three nominally distinct aspects. That notion itself isn't flawed - no person or entity can really be said to have a single side to it.

Nick has a talent for absurd analogies, but his logic is generally solid.

To believe, in English, is synonymous with the particular sense of to know that expresses an assumption of the absolute truth of whatever is known or believed.

My experiences with anxiety have taught me that faith - not necessarily religious faith, but the presumption, without wholly conclusive empirical evidence, that certain things are true, in spiritual or pedestrian matters - is a part of human life. You have faith - that is, you assume without substantially knowing - that the plane you're boarding won't crash mid-flight, that the roof above you now isn't going to cave in, that the sun will set and rise on schedule, etc., without having actually seen these things happen. You may present evidence through statistics that yes, when you let go of a stone, for example, it will drop to the ground, and of course it likely will, but without having witnessed that drop your certainty of it, no matter how well-proven, is assumption, faith.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting French Toast</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>That's a crap ass analogy.</DIV></DIV>

Said the young man who couldn't think of any logical way to refute it.

Cassius: An elegantly written post. What you've said is another thing that I've said before in different ways. Although I'm sure it was disregarded because of the source. The truth is that even in science, when you cut everything down to the most basic truths, you still only have faith. You can perform an experiment perfectly, and do it a million times with the same results and say that it is an absolute truth, but how do you know that #1,000,001 will not do something different and your absolute truth will not be just a 1 to 1million chance? Faith is what fills in after. You can look at evidence of a Big Bang or you can look at a sketchy fossil record, and make assumptions and call them truth, but it takes faith nonetheless. (yes Cass, I just used "nonetheless") :biggrin:

---

I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

@Reaper47
Here's what the copy of the qur'an I have (I told you I'd read it) says as a footnote about 109:
Some of the Meccan idolators suggested to [Mohamed ] as a compromise that he should worship their gods for a year and they should worship his for a year. This was the reply

I could interpret this as a call to the distinction between religions. And I can't say I don't.

---

Also change the texture of the dock. Docks are rarely tile. -Facepunch
As I Lay Dying