Armistice Day

They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old.

Age shall not
weary them, nor the years condemn.

At the going down of the sun and in
the morning

We will remember them.

Early to post it, but the message is the same. Remember those who died in needless slaughter, and those who are dying now.

This must be an Eastern thing. I actually looked up the word. I have only heard it a few times in my life and never knew what it was.

/me bows deeply.

---

The best things in life, aren't things.

I assume this is equal to Remembrance Day in Canada on Nov. 11?

Either way, /remembers

it's kinda like veteran's day orph, you know, btw it's tomorrow

it's kinda like veteran's day orph, you know, btw it's tomorrow

/me kinda figured it out but, was confused about the "Truce" thing.

We beat the s**t out of them. There wasn't much in the way of truce.

---

The best things in life, aren't things.

This is an american thing, right? Ah, seeing that the majority of members here are from USA, I suppose you can celebrate it. :smile:

Im doubt there are many members from SA, so I wont be making threads about "Voortreker-Day" too soon!

Orpheus said:
We beat the s**t out of them. There wasn't much in the way of truce.

It goes back further than that war.

Wikipedia said:
Armistice Day is the anniversary of the official end of World War I, November 11, 1918. It commemorates the armistice signed between the Allies and Germany at Compi?gne, France, for the cessation of hostilities on the Western Front, which took effect at eleven o'clock in the morning ? the "eleventh hour of the eleventh day of the eleventh month." While this official date to mark the end of the war reflects the ceasefire on the Western Front, hostilities continued in other regions, especially across the former Russian Empire and in parts of the old Ottoman Empire.

In Australia, we know it as Remembrance Day.

My great grandfather fought in WWI in France, and I've had relatives (now dead) who fought in WWII.

---

"If you talk at all during this lesson, you have detention. Do you understand?"

• My yr11 Economics teacher

It is known as Remembrance Day here too, but strictly speaking, the
11th of the 11th, 11th hour is the "armistice". We have services
tomorrow, too - which is known as "Remembrance Sunday".

wil5on said:
<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Orpheus</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>We beat the s**t out of them. There wasn't much in the way of truce.

It goes back further than that war.

</div></div>

LOL @ Wilson.

We were there too.

But, I still didn't know about any truce. New info for me to pack away for someday.

---

The best things in life, aren't things.

I feel kinda dumb but for me 11.11. 11:11 is the beginning of the carnival season.

---

Why snark works.

Jimmi said:
I wont be making threads about "Voortreker-Day" too soon!

That's because Voortrkker's day is a racist holiday! :biggrin:

---

I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

So is 'Black History Month'.

So is 'Black History Month'.

And Kwanza, if you want to get technical.

---

Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

What the hell is Kwanza?

---

"If you talk at all during this lesson, you have detention. Do you understand?"

• My yr11 Economics teacher

Kwanzaa (or Kwaanza) is a week-long secular holiday honoring African-American heritage, observed from December 26 to January 1 each year, almost exclusively by African-Americans in the United States of America.

Kwanzaa consists of seven days of celebration, featuring activities such as candle-lighting and pouring of libations, and culminating in a feast and gift-giving. It was founded by controversial black nationalist Ron Karenga, and first celebrated from December 26, 1966, to January 1, 1967. Karenga calls Kwanzaa the African American branch of "first fruits" celebrations of classical African cultures.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwanzaa

That's because Voortrkker's day is a racist holiday!

:biggrin:
True, true. They have actually banned it here...I think, since it was proberly the usual typical afrikaans celebration: Celebrating some ugly old leather-skin boer who killed more blacks than Van-Der-Merwe or some difficult-to-pronounce and dull name.

:wink:

I know I come a bit late here, but I'll share a silent moment for those who have passed.

---

''Everyone wades in s**t until they're competent enough to walk on it. Jesus style.''
Dystopia - Empires

I think "Black History Month" and "Kwanzaa" are MUCH more racist than Voortrekker Day. Voortrekker Day was a celebration of the victory of one army over another, which army was black people and which was white people should not matter. However, it was the blacks who were defeated, so the holiday must be banned. But when it is a celebration of blackness, we allow it as a "celebration of heritage."

Mark this: "Frenchy, I agree with you."

---

I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

Like how gay pride parades are, as it were, heterophobic?

Don't be ignorant. The due recognition of the accomplishments of a historically victimized group is a response to, not a perpetuation of, discrimination.

Even though the guy who started Black History Month (forgot his name) said himself that he wished it to be a very temporary thing, as it only further segregated blacks and whites.

Cassius said:
The due recognition of the accomplishments of a historically victimized group is a response to, not a perpetuation of, discrimination.

you make it sound like it can't be both, Cass.

---

i eat paint

You guys know alot more about my country than myself.
We don't celebrate "Voortrekker Day", I merely made it up.
In fact, we dont really celebrate any holiday to do with White or Black accomplishments, except the day that apartheid was abolished and Mandela released.

With regard to Armistice Day, I also bow my head to those passed. I think this can deferently apply to our country, seeing that we lost alot of our own soldiers also during WW2.

Cassius said:
Like how gay pride parades are, as it were, heterophobic?

Don't be ignorant. The due recognition of the accomplishments of a historically victimized group is a response to, not a perpetuation of, discrimination.

There is only one thing that I can think of that should dissuade people from celebrating such events. It only dramatizes the differences. It focus's on the differences. It does nothing at all to mend the wounds of being different.
I don't think there should be national holidays that celebrates being different. I know that sounds awful but its true. You cannot prevent violence nor can you prevent being different, but you can avoid creating situations that thrust the two conflicting bodies together.

---

The best things in life, aren't things.

Cassius said:
Like how gay pride parades are, as it were, heterophobic?

Don't be ignorant. The due recognition of the accomplishments of a historically victimized group is a response to, not a perpetuation of, discrimination.

anything that caters exclusively to specific race is a perpetuation of racism.. i mean, it doesn't make much sense to reinforce the idea that blacks are somehow special by dedicating an entire month to recognize their history. aren't they striving to be part of the mass population? reminds me of the gays that you mentioned, as well; they want the same marital rights as everyone else, but flaunt their difference? rubs chin why would a group of people celebrate their difference, then protest when they're treated as such?

---

the players tried to take the field
the marching band refused to yield

While perhaps I dont agree with the latter part of the latter posters,
I totally agree with "over agreeing" - the acknowledgment of special
interest groups is usually counter productive and a game to earn
brownie points.

Society can function without recognising perceived "wrongs" - we, (I)
am taught this as a history student. We can study the past, understand
why people held their views and who it impacted upon, but apologising
for their forfathers is naiveity at it's greatest. In fact, persecuting
a people or cheering a people in favour of their past horrors suffered
or dispensed has lead only further to troublesome times - see Germany,
post WWI - blame caused hate, hate caused WW2 - Israel, guilt caused
extension of militarism, militarism caused further bloodshed.

I instantly subscribed to my current way of thinking (outside of
university) when a left wing poet declined the OBE/MBE (a British
"medal" notifying service to the "Empire") on grounds that it
represented colonialism (as opposed to 'British' values today) and a
situation where another significant immigrant called for reparations of
the families used as commodities in the slave trade. I could not and
will not abide those who judge the past by todays values - it is a
naive misunderstanding of morals and relativity.

I warn you now that my post is going to be shaky. I have a horrible headache and should be studying. Anyway:

I do believe that there is some validity to social macromanagement. Though we may have largely scoured racist ideologies from our society, the historical products of such ideologies still stand. It would seem necessary therefore to right the balance.

---

[Im_invisible] "I would suck a man off, but only for sustenance."

right the balance by creating more racist ideologies? makes sense. i bet the learned white students that lost out on their college admission due to affirmative action LOVE black people.

---

the players tried to take the field
the marching band refused to yield

Sadly, its hard to draw lines between certain ideologies. I happen to know women who are the only supporting person in their home feeding children who wouldn't have gotten a decent paying job without some sort of a government assistance program like affirmative action.

I personally dislike the lop sided use of affirmative action but the idea of the concept had its noble points.

Its a real shame that people cannot just get a job with only their knowledge and experience.

Then again, that woman I mentioned did very well, she only needed the chance to prove she could qualify... With enough training.

---

The best things in life, aren't things.

Bewbies said:
right the balance by creating more racist ideologies? makes sense. i bet the learned white students that lost out on their college admission due to affirmative action LOVE black people.

I know a guy who lost a full ride scholarship to affirmative action. I don't see how flaunting a difference can help erase the difference.

Affirmative action is nothing but giving criteria-based positions to people who do not meet the criteria, simply because thier kind of people didn't used to meet the criteria.

---

I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Bewbies</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>right the balance by creating more racist ideologies?</DIV></DIV>
You are attacking something I never advanced.

I maintain that celebrations of formerly marginalized parts of our society are defensible, if not as elements in a strategy to correct our cultural missteps then simply as celebrations, to which every group is entitled.

(Again, I have a wicked headache. I will usually never qualify my performance in a debate but I do ask you to excuse me here if I descend into incoherency - I can hardly see what I'm writing.)

---

[Im_invisible] "I would suck a man off, but only for sustenance."

Uhh, in other news, I was in Paris on Armistice Day. They throw a crazy military parade down the Champs-Elysee and everything. I also got to see Chirac's right hand speed down the street in a black sedan! Jealous??

..right. i'm attacking words that i put in your mouth? is that it? i asserted that the methods used in 'righting the balance' is, using your terminology, creating more racist ideologies. which it is. ..and please, don't call this a debate. you, yourself are entering it with the pretense of "don't blame me if i'm wrong, or if i make a douche of myself. i'm impaired." pft. but hey, if you want to, allow me to give you tons of fodder. i'll even format my text in bold red from now on, as to be extra assaultive.

I do believe that there is some validity to social macromanagement.
of course there's validity to social macromanagement. that's why it's used every day, in every society. i believe the sky is blue -- DEBATE POINTS FOR BEWBIES!

Though we may have largely scoured racist ideologies from our society, the historical products of such ideologies still stand.
..wow, [color=lightblue]news to me. come on, throw some more factoids out just for the hell of it. it just might support whatever it is you're trying to 'debate'.[/color]

It would seem necessary therefore to right the balance.
(you support black history month, as it works to 'right the balance'). ..but you added seem in there. makes it much easier to backtrack, and turn it into:

I maintain that celebrations (celebrations now? a few buckets of KFC and VHS of "a day in the life of shaka zulu"?) of formerly marginalized (black) parts of our society are defensible (they're able to be defended. not saying i do defend them -- that would mean i have a real stance on the issue.), if not as elements in a strategy to correct our cultural missteps (righting the balance) then simply as celebrations (oh lawd! celebrate yo blackness!), to which every group is entitled. (cept whites. that's racism.)

---

the players tried to take the field
the marching band refused to yield

Cassias, I have to admit, you have frighteningly good English/grammatical skills - I don't think I understand half of what you said. :biggrin:
Ok I did, but still, makes me feel illiterate.

there are still people being beaten up or killed on the streets of glasgow every weekend, based on the ongoing 'cultural celebrations' of a battle that was fought over 300 years ago in Ireland.

---

i eat paint

ahh yes....its the "thinking" part that escapes the "thinking" people.....i think... :heee: ....so elementary, and yet....*sigh.....wisdom and logic is not everyones cup o' tea i suppose...

Doc B.... :dodgy:

BooBs....ease off on the red text bud....he got the message...

Bewbies said:
..right. i'm attacking words that i put in your mouth? is that it? i asserted that the methods used in 'righting the balance' is, using your terminology, creating more racist ideologies. which it is. ..and please, don't call this a debate. you, yourself are entering it with the pretense of "don't blame me if i'm wrong, or if i make a douche of myself. i'm impaired." pft. but hey, if you want to, allow me to give you tons of fodder. i'll even format my text in bold red from now on, as to be extra assaultive.

I do believe that there is some validity to social macromanagement.
of course there's validity to social macromanagement. that's why it's used every day, in every society. i believe the sky is blue -- DEBATE POINTS FOR BEWBIES!

Though we may have largely scoured racist ideologies from our society, the historical products of such ideologies still stand.
..wow, [color=lightblue]news to me. come on, throw some more factoids out just for the hell of it. it just might support whatever it is you're trying to 'debate'.[/color]

It would seem necessary therefore to right the balance.
(you support black history month, as it works to 'right the balance'). ..but you added seem in there. makes it much easier to backtrack, and turn it into:

I maintain that celebrations (celebrations now? a few buckets of KFC and VHS of "a day in the life of shaka zulu"?) of formerly marginalized (black) parts of our society are defensible (they're able to be defended. not saying i do defend them -- that would mean i have a real stance on the issue.), if not as elements in a strategy to correct our cultural missteps (righting the balance) then simply as celebrations (oh lawd! celebrate yo blackness!), to which every group is entitled. (cept whites. that's racism.)

I've watched it become something of a Snarkpit tradition for each political thread to descend into onslaughts of outright belittlement. If that's this topic's fate, I refuse to have a hand in it. I welcome the red text, the ad hominem jabs and the oblique insults to the speech and tastes of blacks - unnecessary, stereotypical and utterly rude though they may be. You will not succeed in provoking me.

i asserted that the methods used in 'righting the balance' is, using your terminology, creating more racist ideologies.

You have yet to demonstrate how one group's right to celebrating its own history amounts to racism.

which it is.

Prove this.

you, yourself are entering it with the pretense of "don't blame me if i'm wrong, or if i make a douche of myself. i'm impaired."

Since my earlier days here, I've developed the bizzarre habit of entering arguments with the aim, not necessarily of proving myself right, but of learning from them. I am no longer concerned with the glories of stamping another viewpoint out of existence. I take an unsure stance here because this, I will grant, is unsure intellectual ground for me. Prove your points, and I will gladly concede to them - I'm still making up my mind. Allow me to construct what ideas I have, however.

of course there's validity to social macromanagement. that's why it's used every day, in every society. i believe the sky is blue -- DEBATE POINTS FOR BEWBIES!

I purported its validity as a strategy - that is, I support certain forms of it. [color=#ff0000][color=#ffffff]

[/color]..wow, [/color]news to me. come on, throw some more factoids out just for the hell of it. it just might support whatever it is you're trying to 'debate'.[color=#ffffff]

It was a fairly spare logical sequence. If I didn't communicate it before, I'll try again:[/color] In the past, the status of minorities was unfairly lowered. We no longer support such lowering. We should attempt to raise, as it were, their status.

(celebrations now? a few buckets of KFC and VHS of "a day in the life of shaka zulu"?)[color=#ffffff]

You strain my courtesy. This is absolutely indefensible.[/color]

formerly marginalized (black)

Africans have not been the only people to experience oppression in America. [color=#ff0000][color=#ffffff]

[/color](they're able to be defended. not saying i do defend them -- that would mean i have a real stance on the issue.)[/color][color=#ffffff]

One wonders what you're attacking.[/color]

(cept whites. that's racism.)

Is this what it comes down to? Events like black history month make you feel excluded? Were I writing fiction, I would consider it too obvious an irony if, after one character spontaneously attacked another for, among other things, not arguing anything, the former wasn't arguing much himself. I come to the end of your red text having found within it a single viable point for which you provided no evidence. Again, I refuse to insult you, yet if you're going to keep this up, I reccomend finding a reason for it.

I think "Black History Month" and "Kwanzaa" are MUCH more racist than Voortrekker Day. Voortrekker Day was a celebration of the victory of one army over another, which army was black people and which was white people should not matter.

Hold that thought.

Don't be ignorant. The due recognition of the accomplishments of a historically victimized group is a response to, not a perpetuation of, discrimination.

Shake'n mix. I understand the point that Nickel is trying to hit on here, but Cass gets the nail on the head. If anything, and after reading a decent bulk of the argument cooking up here, this is really to contribute that Cassius is right. If anything, Bewbies, you don't really seem to providing any kind of argument -- if anything, a primitive "orly" attitude and trend, without any backing up of facts.

And as far argument tips go, I'd recomend not posting irrelevant remarks in your argument.

twas satire more than anything else, cass. i thought i made that much clear in taking the assaultive stance with red bold text, and admittedly giving you fodder. but yea, like you mentioned, threads here at snarkpit devolve quickly into wars of words.. regardless of the original topic. it just takes one person to plant their feet in the ground and another to throw punches. you came right out and called our opinions of racially charged holidays being counter-productive, 'ignorant'.. followed by your own opinion, which is somewhow more correct, despite also lacking evidence. countering your claim, i asserted that it has the opposite effect. ..you came out with combative rhetoric like "attacking" and even pre-emptive excuses, just in case your claim falls through. not only did you plant your feet, but you threw the punch. this kind of behavior makes sense bewteen two podiums with a moderator, i know, but why here? is this search for self-growth that important? that you wish to create a 'debate' wherever possible? self-growth isn't something attained by making someone else feel small.

You will not succeed in provoking me.

apparently, posting my humble opinion on a subject - a subject you apparently know little about - is enough to 'provoke' you.

Prove this.

i grew up in the heart of tujunga, here in southern california. i had spanish science books, and teachers spoke better spanish than english. almost daily, i was persecuted as a white person by the mexican population. it was s**tty. they were convinced i was less human. this was reinforced by the community celebrating mexican holidays, speaking the mexican language, and all-in-all not assimilating. more than more, they seperated themselves as a race, 'celebrating their culture'. they would say they weren't american, they were mexican -- they just happened to be living here. i despised this attitude and special treatment in the school system, and it led to an inherent hatred for the mexican population within me. i've since shed myself of most of it, but i'd be lying if i said it wasn't still there. i've become a racist through the celebration of culture.. and the same thing happens, to a degree, whenever races continue to be recognized and be given different treatment. this is easily seen in the constant hatred for and protests against affirmative action.

on scales containing weights made of special treatment, one can't balance by adding more weight -- only by removing the weight from both sides.

---

the players tried to take the field
the marching band refused to yield

Their celebration of their heritage, though it may have excluded you, is distinct from making you feel "less than human." Such mistreatment is inexcusable, of course, but not inherent in their culture.

apparently, posting my humble opinion on a subject - a subject you apparently know little about - is enough to 'provoke' you.

Actually, insulting me is enough to provoke me.

is this search for self-growth that important?

Stop. Is testing to see whether the opinions I hold are correct important to me? Yes.

countering your claim, i asserted that it has the opposite effect.

Do not pretend that you approached this argument levelheadedly. It overly dignifies your rant to describe it as "assertion." I thought over this since I posted, and if you're actually racist, I'll find another way to spend my time.

i've become a racist through the celebration of culture

I see you are. It's a testament to how blind I can be that I didn't conclude this the moment you brought in the insulting stereotypes of blacks. I'm staying in this thread, but will not acknowledge your replies. Sorry. A man who will descend to justifying racism simply has no place in the rational discussion of how best to deal with racism's legacy.

translation: "I'm wrong, and this is an excuse to further ignore bewbies' points."

---

the players tried to take the field
the marching band refused to yield

I'll tell you what: the whole thing boils down to the fact that Everyone but whites (and sometimes only white males) in the united states can "celebrate their heritage." This is a greater injustice that any racism past! Think of it this way:

<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
One group of people (whites) worked hard, stayed together long enough to start western civilization. It was one group holding themselves above, and against all other groups. Then this group of white males started to weaken their viewpoints on the treatments of others, and allowed them to gain the courage to protest, riot, and generally act like they were back in their home jungles. Soon, the pressure got so much that the whites started to grant freedoms little-by-little to these generally poorly-behaved populations (need proof, see any inner city; no whites there). Now, the formerly downtrodden groups have ultimate power through many of whites' fears, weaknesses, and general idiocies such as: Liberal Judges and a litigious society, Affirmative action, and a general ingrained mindset of "Ohh, poor little black victim..."

Point is, when you are downtrodden, celebrate that difference that has caused so much trouble. But when you're "rollin'" down the streets in "bling" escalades with "phat grills" and all of your teeth are gold, you can no longer claim that you are a victim of anyone but your own mismanagement of funds.

[/quote]
I suggest you all read this: http://www.stormfront.org/whitenat/racism.htm

---

I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

Did you actually just quote Stormfront? Stormfront. You can think of that this way:

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quote:</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>The Stormfront White Nationalist Community is the most prominent white nationalist/white pride and white supremacist forum on the Internet. Its motto is "White Pride World Wide". The site owner refers to Stormfront strictly as a white nationalist website. Its critics and the media, however, often describe it as a Neo-Nazi organisation and accuse it of promoting racism and hate speech and of serving as a forum for the advocacy of violence. It has been listed as a hate site, and a number of internet content filters prevent access to it.

Although Stormfront claims to prohibit the promotion of illegal activities under United States law, webmaster Don Black has said "We want to take America back. We know a multicultural Yugoslav nation can't hold up for too long. Whites won't have any choice but to take military action."

</DIV></DIV>

Let's not make allusions to white supremacist groups in a thread that
was originally intended to remember the fallen of the 2 major wars -
one based around ill founded hate and supremacist notions.

It seems a little tasteless, don't you think?

I am forced to concur. This thread is getting very uncomfortable to read. No one post specific but still.

I suggest the discussion be taken up in another thread, so people who want to pay homage to the fallen can without the stigma of seeming to contribute to something else.

---

The best things in life, aren't things.

this is one of those threads that was supposed to make me think of my history in life, reflect on what has transpired in that time, and wish for things to be different.....like the good ole' days of this forum.....

although i find the subject matter utterly tasteless in a thread meant to be a solemn window to the soul, i agree that national debate is note only needed, but required....but this aint the place to do it....nickel, if yer pissed of because yer a white guy, well, get over it....if yer pissed off because they ARENT white guys, well, ya ought to think that mindset through as well.....if you cant adapt, yer in for a heap o' s**t son.....

cass, i understand that yer neck hair is standing up, but come on bud, this isnt the place, and i KNOW you know that.....

happy friday everyone.... :wink:

Doc B....

http://www.snarkpit.net/forums.php?forum=1&topic=7353

---

I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

Brasso, it's just too hard to take you seriously with that avatar :biggrin:

Brasso, it's just too hard to take you seriously with that avatar :biggrin:

:biggrin: I'm having hard time taking him seriously even without that avatar. He is just... peculiar?

---

''Everyone wades in s**t until they're competent enough to walk on it. Jesus style.''
Dystopia - Empires

<DIV class=quotetitle>? posted by French Toast</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>Brasso, it's just too hard to take you seriously with that avatar :biggrin: </DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>heh, you ought to see me shave....wewt!</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>? posted by Pvt.Scythe</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext> :biggrin: I'm having hard time taking him seriously even without that avatar. He is just... peculiar?
</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetitle>
mmm....ive definately been called worse than that sir.... :wink: no, i dont find myself particularly peculiar, simply.....seasoned...which provokes me to think a bit differently than most of you...im curious though, why peculiar?</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetitle>and i dont think you and i have had an honest debate about anything since youve been here have we scythe?....pick yer poison sir, you aint seen nuthin' yet.... :heee: </DIV>
Doc B... :dodgy:

feeds brasso's avatar a popsicle

---

the players tried to take the field
the marching band refused to yield