HL2 Textures

I was looking for the HL2 footage that used to be on the Steam Beta and then disappeared, when I came across 2 "echnical videos" on fileplanet. One was about Alyx's face, and that wasn't too exciting, but the other was about the texturing for HL2.

Some guy was talking about how they use real-time shaders to take the light information from what would have been a 200+ polygon wall and put it into a texture. So basically this one polygon texture looks like the 200 polygon "bricks" because the light patterns are expressed? (Sometimes, I can't even undersstand myself.) Anyway, sounds cool to me. I'm sure Cassius, tEH Texture King, will find this interesting...

I hate to call "old!" but we discussed this months ago when the video came out.

I still don't see how this is going to be that effective when you are standing right beside a flat wall, though

It will still help to a certain extent. If for example you were stood next to a brick wall comprised of only one flat face, then it remains extremely polygon efficient but adds a sense of depth by shadows acting realistically on the indents and so on. Its not ideal, and if you want it to look really good you would use a "prop" brick wall perhaps, but its a step up from a normal flat texture.

Oh so your starting to realise now that I was right... HL2 = spinkified HL1 engine....

Myrk- said:
Oh so your starting to realise now that I was right... HL2 = spinkified HL1 engine....

Nah, I think they just made everything really similar to HL1 to keep the mod community alive. They probably realize how lucky they truly are to have such a huge following, not just with Counter-Strike.

Myrk- said:
Oh so your starting to realise now that I was right... HL2 = spinkified HL1 engine....

A fundamental change in the engine that would make mapping and coding different, more difficult, or less accessible to new people would be a stupid move for Valve. The continued and unparalleled success for a FPS this old is only because of the ease of modding and mapping, so why wouldn't they want to recreate such success for their next game?

Plus, do any people really need smooth bevel curves or map construction by subtraction to eliminate leaks and make testing faster (and move the learning curve so much higher)? I don't, and I don't know of any fundamental changes that are neccessary.

I certainly hope that they remove Gordon's eyes from his chest and make the dimensions more 'realistic', it was almost impossible to create a normal sized builing from floorplans in the original game! But otherwise as long as it looks and plays and feels better.. :smile:

I never denied it was a spinkified HL1 engine, but I think if you've seen the videos, its hard deny that its VERY spinkified!

Leperous said:
I certainly hope that they remove Gordon's eyes from his chest and make the dimensions more 'realistic', it was almost impossible to create a normal sized builing from floorplans in the original game!

I remember reading this somewhere... A statement by Gabe Newell I think. "The original player dimensions will be retained" Not sure what it means though, but the scale of a player's surroundings will still be an issue, I think.

Putting the player's eyes in his chest seems kinda weird, but it's a mechanism in long-standing use to keep characters looking as if they are the correct scale. Many games use this technique - often times putting the eyes at actual eye level gives the illusion of being a giant around other players. It's weird, but we're also not dealing with the same FOV concept that we do every day with our own eyes.

Yer whenever I stand next to people my height I feel way taller.... but thats probably because I was always small and was used to looking up, so when I look at eye level they seem all small :razz:

Skeletor said:
I'm sure Cassius, tEH Texture King, will find this interesting...

I find it rather horrifying D: Half of the fun of HL texturing is putting in detail that looks great and doesn't cost a polygon when the mapper would have had to use quite a bit of detail.

It'd be nice if you could enter your height into the game and the camera was adjusted accordingly...

Cassius said:
I find it rather horrifying D: Half of the fun of HL texturing is putting in detail that looks great and doesn't cost a polygon when the mapper would have had to use quite a bit of detail.

Lol you fool Cassius... take a close look at HL2 pics and videos. The only difference between HL1 and HL2 is larger areas and higher detailed textures. Most walls and buildings are just as simple as HL1 ones in say CS! They just have them 3D bump mapped textures and such.

I don't get how Half-Life is supposedly 'easier' to map, mod, etc. for. It's just that you are used to it- ffs it's been out for five years! That, and that it's an enchanced QUAKE 1 engine. Of course it's easier to map for than UT2k3 etc., it's old! Either HL2 is going to take a good bit more learning and work to learn to map for, or... it will be a s**tty tweaked HL1 engine :razz:

And I'm sorry but that texture trick is pretty lame compared to having a static mesh lining the wall that actually IS 3D, not just an asstastic illusion.

OMG! I can't believe its taken you that long to work it out lol! Though you are the first one here to work it out (part from me, I been telling you all it all along :razz: )

Cassius said:

Skeletor said:
I'm sure Cassius, tEH Texture King, will find this interesting...

I find it rather horrifying D: Half of the fun of HL texturing is putting in detail that looks great and doesn't cost a polygon when the mapper would have had to use quite a bit of detail.

The whole point is that you can use LOTS of detail without creating a lot of polygons.

Lol you moron Myrk, that's hardly related to what I was talking about, you just took my statement out of context so you could repeat something you've been endlessly prostyletizing. I've always been opposed to fancy, needless jive like bumpmapping and static meshes. They rob mapping of all skill, and texturing of all meaning. They allow complete noobs to create things nearly as beautiful as professionals, something I see in UT2k3 mapping quite a bit.

And, both you and Jinx can spare me this nonsense. Unless you hacked the beta and examined the engine code, every last word you have to say about the HL2 engine is a baseless conspiracy theory. By the way, even if it were a souped up HL engine, why would that be a bad thing? I'm willing to bet that you would be screaming your head off if the sequel to the game you've both mapped for years f**ked you over with subtractive geometry or something of the like. The thing with such hardcore skeptical cynicism that you two in particular exhibit is that it ceases to be constructive or realistic - these "well, I've looked at the HL2 screenshots, and being a super-expert on all facets of graphic engine coding and design, I can conclude without any evidence that THIS ENGINE IS BASED ON HL1!!!!!!1111111111oneoeneone" statements are only theories. Hold your judgements back at least a few months until they release the product you continue to whine about, continue to bash, continue to curse Valve as being an evil corporate giant who wants to actually release the game when they're ready to (this in particular reference to Jinx).

Half-Life editing is still fun for me at least, because of the fact that with enough talent and time, you can create something with 800 polygons on a five year old engine that looks better than something with 40,000 on UT2k3.

I've textured for UT2k3 before. It is not a cakewalk, if you want to keep the same detail as you had in 256x256 textures; and in the end, it's not really satisfying even if you did. When an engine supports enough polygons that it's only up to a texture artist to make colors and materials (things like big shadows, complete objects, and transitions are becoming obsolete), it's a mappers utopia, and an artist's hell. The nature of being an HL texture artist is that you're half the process of mapping, you give a level its soul, rather than its clothes.

I don't know if what any of what I just said makes sense to any of you, but trust me, in my shoes you would understand.

Jinx said:
I don't get how Half-Life is supposedly 'easier' to map, mod, etc. for. It's just that you are used to it- ffs it's been out for five years! That, and that it's an enchanced QUAKE 1 engine. Of course it's easier to map for than UT2k3 etc., it's old! Either HL2 is going to take a good bit more learning and work to learn to map for, or... it will be a s**tty tweaked HL1 engine :razz:

And I'm sorry but that texture trick is pretty lame compared to having a static mesh lining the wall that actually IS 3D, not just an asstastic illusion.

:rolleyes:

A mapping newbie will make a map faster with the HL engine than with the UT engine. A complete newbie will be able to make good maps with the HL engine faster and learn the nuances of it faster. A huge learning curve will drive people away from mapping, and a large group of people mapping and editing is vital to a strong and vibrant community.

The first map I ever made (one month after getting the game), which I knew not to release, was on par with a non-killbox DocRock map construction and design wise, whereas after a month of trying UnrealEd all I had to show for it was s**t. Besides, the majority of the maps I have seen in UT2k3/Championship look like ass. There is something to be said about clean lines and a non-cluttered look, and throwing a bunch of crap on the walls and ceilings does not make a map look beautiful. Realistic given the settings, maybe, but not beautiful. Mapping can be art, you know.

Then again, my dislike of the UT sequels is well-known, so I'm certain this will all be written off as nonsense. However, there must be a reason that HL had and still has the success it has (besides Snarks, of course).

Yak_Fighter said:
A mapping newbie will make a map faster with the HL engine than with the UT engine. A complete newbie will be able to make good maps with the HL engine faster and learn the nuances of it faster.

Oh my god. Maybe then I'll finally be able to map!!!11!1 :biggrin:

No? Ok...

Thats mainly due to all the tutorials and number of mappers on the Half-life engine though...

Heh. With Unreal maps though, its impossible to get any leaks, so that might make it easier for newbies. I don't really like reverse-CSG that much though; feels counter-intuitive in a sense.

Myrk- said:
Thats mainly due to all the tutorials and number of mappers on the Half-life engine though...

:rolleyes:

UT2k3 has had a number of official websites totally devoted to editing, mapping specifically, since before the game was released. And even before that, there were already UED-buffs-a-plenty, and there was no significant change in the core design of UED from UT to UT2k3.

Try again. Though I'm probably being overly harsh, I'm honest-to-god sick of this endless bashing of the company that's given you the rights and the tools to edit their software for free, and their games along with it. Valve doesn't owe you jack s**t, really - if anyone owes anything, it's the community.

Gagh, here we go, Gordons crowbar was wedged up cassius' ass :razz:

You're too kind.

But was it the golden crowbar?

No, I think it was the shapely crowbar from the HL Hi-def pack :razz: