Time travel thread!

So lets have some completely inoffensive thoughts on what time is, and if time travel is possible :smile: (I'll chip in later on)

Timetravel is silly

que twilight zone music

didn't we touch this subject recently..

i have my thoughts, but am in a rush this morning.. i look forward to the replies though.. this is immensely more to my liking than .. well anywho's :smile:

I have two schools of thought in regard to the whole time travel issue- one that I use to quantify "time" and one that I use to think about time travel (oh- and I really don't believe time travel is possible- I just like to think about it)...

First, let me just state where I stand on time itself. I view "time" as nothing more than the act of motion in the universe. So, theoretically, if all motion were to cease in the universe, then there would be no concept of time, as such. You can also derive that time is then based on the fastest moving item in the universe at any one time, since it would set the standard for motion (if that makes sense...)

But, as for time travel, in my system it doesn't really work. But I have thought about the little nuances of it since the idea of time travel is very appealing to me.

So, assuming that you could "go back in time," what ramifications would that have on the rest of the world? I'll tell you what I think would happen using probably the most famous time paradox- what if you kill your grandfather before he sire's your father.

One thing that you have to keep in mind is the "natural" flow of time for us. We percieve "time" as only moving forward, and for all we know it only affects us moving forward. So, keeping that in mind, I think this would happen:

You're born in the year 1980, and when you turn 30, you somehow find a way to travel back in time, and decide to off your grandfather. You appear, through means unknown, back in 1920. You Shoot/Stab your gramps. Your grandfather would die then, and be dead for good, and the question comes up about what happens to YOU. I think that you would then cease to exist (since you would have no way to be born later on). But, time would not reverse itself and remove the bullet/knife from your grandpa, so he would stay dead. It doesn't make much sense to me to think about a "sentient" time that will effectively negate any problems that come up within it (i.e. you killing your grandfather, but then you never existing to kill your grandfather, so your grandfather still lives, but then you still live to kill your grandfather and so on and so forth.)

From my experience, the universe, with very, very few exceptions follows one simple rule- always follow the path of least resistance. The idea of "time" flowing backwards to fix some error seems like it breaks that rule.

So lets have some completely inoffensive thoughts on what time is, and if time travel is possible (I'll chip in later on)

[whimsical blue color to infer that I'm being sarcastic]
Oh, and you're a douche.
[/whimsical blue color to infer that I'm being sarcastic]

I had to say something offensive... Sorry.

If time travel were possible wouldn't WWI, WWII or any other major war have been averted/changed?

Or has it been already, how would we know?

Well, if you look at time travel, from a logical point of view, it's basically impossible, unless you want to go forward.

The meaning of TIME is a measurment tool so that we can measure the distance from moment to the next and so we can archive things that have taken place. Time is not like length, it simply doesn't truely exist, it is a man made concept.

The only way you could travel through time, going forward, would be if we were able to travel at the speed of light (Also impossible because the close you get to the speed of light, if you have mass, the heavier you become, and at the speed of light mass is infinite . . . thus only light can go the speed of light). Essentially you'd get into a space ship, go about 14million miles an our (however much it takes to get out of the 9.8gs) and go the speed of light in some direction, count the light years you've traveled (as to you it would seem instantanious) then return. When you returned you would have knowledge of leaving and then suddenly you were entering the atmosphere again. Measure the distance you went (not displacement) in light years, and that's how much later it would be.
Now, traveling back in time . . . yeah, I don't think so, even as impossible as the last rant sounded, this one is freakin' nuts!
The only one I've heard that actually makes sense is going into some dimension of sub-space somehow, simply because it's theorised that time is a physical entity, which it isn't.
Also, think about this, you're not the only person/thing effected, so would you really want to in fear of f**king the entire universe up? Now, I'm not saying humans have that much power (yet lol) but there's so many factors it would make your head spin.

So, no, I don't think so. But, it does give a nice premise for fictional story lines :biggrin:

But Monqui, the past happens before the future, if your grandfather was killed then that would happen before you could travel back in time. I think your idea has a flaw in it though- the past will somehow 'know' that you are a consequence of your grandfather living, before the future with you in it has happened, and that information will have to instantaneously travel back in time to the moment you change the past.

Think about this then- what would happen if someone came back in time to now, and killed one of your friends because they were their grandfather..?

I'm too busy to discuss this interesting topic now, but hopefully I'll get the chance a little earlier on :heee:

Then poor Andrew would be lying in a pool of blood with a knife sticking through his back, and I would be all "wtf."

Think about *this*- when YOU travel back in time, you take your place AT THAT PARTICULAR TIME. Until you go back, you exist only at those points in the "past." So you would kill gramps, and then cease to exist- but why would "time" go backwars a few seconds to remove the knife?

"The vulcan minister for Science has stated time travel to be inpossible" - Topal

I can't concieve time travel being possible, but what do I know?

Traveling foraward is completly possible. you do not have to travel at the speed of light, merely at a significant fraction of c. it's called the twins paradox...

Time is not simply a man-made concept. in fact, it is thought that time and space are effectivly the same thing, and possibly that they are both qunatized much like energy, momentum...ect. I do not know the particulars of relativity, quantum-loop gravity, string theory, or any similar cosmological theory which might apply to this topic. However, I have heard theories that backwards time-trevel might be possible through a whormhole. since this is effectivly a connection between two points in space-time it ought to be possible to connect any two arbatraty points. this is the only theoreticaly reputable theory for backewards time travel I have ever encountered.

The paradox Monqui brings up is one I have often considered. I believe that it would be impossible to go back in time for any specific purpose. say I wanted to go back in time and kill Hitler in 1920 when he was probably still recovering form his service in WWI. I could conciveably do that, but once I had, where would the motivation be for my going back in the first place? after all, if WWII never happend, if I hjad never heard of Adolf Hitler, I couldn't very well have the motivation to go back in time and kill him could I?

this situation creates an infinite loop. who knows, myabe if someone does this it destroys the universe :biggrin: Maybe we are all cought in a cyclical loop of this sort. eseentialy there is no way to say what would happen.

Time is simply a way for everything to not happen at once. If the big bang is really what started the universe, than everything that was, is and will be was inside that and everything existed at once. So when all that exploded and everything started moving out, time keeps all existance from existing at once. And this time it's not 4:45am. This time I just woke up 20 minutes before.

only if it's possibility has been written into the program.

http://www.johntitor.com/

Either someone has no life and is a good hoaxer or were kinda all screwed.

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I think your idea has a flaw in it though- the past will somehow 'know' that you are a consequence of your grandfather living, before the future with you in it has happened, and that information will have to instantaneously travel back in time to the moment you change the past.

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haha. the old debate of "information" ... what is information? :razz:

heres another paradoxx, which involves travelling into the future (seeing as going back to the past is, proven beyond reasonable doubt, impossible) -

A proffessor builds a time machine in the year 2005, and decides to go forward (no problem here) to 2010. When he arrives, he seeks out the university library and browses through the current journals. In the mathematics section he notices a splendid new theorem, and jots down the details. Then he returns to 2005, (by going back along the wormhole he created in 2005. travelling "back" in time is only possible [at least, using the wormhole theorem, which is one of the best theories for travelling forward - problem is it needs about as much energy as there is in the universe to keep it open for 5 years :razz: ] after the wormhole has been built, ie if he build the wormhole in 2005 he cant go back further than that.) summons a clever student, and outlines the theorem. The student goes away, tidies up the arguement, writes a paper, and publishes it in a mathematics journal. It was, of course, in this very journal that the professor read the paper in 2010.

This isn't strictly a paradoxx, but more a really weird state of affairs. The problem isn't of time resolving itself (with the grandpa paradoxx) but there is one problem.

WHERE DID THE INFORMATION COME FROM??

:razz:

R@lph VViggum said:
http://www.johntitor.com/

Either someone has no life and is a good hoaxer or were kinda all screwed.

well, if this is real i cant wait til 2036 :biggrin: . that is, if this john titor guy hasn't accidentally created a paradoxx by telling ppl about time travel and making time travel never be invented. :razz:

but if this john titor IS real, he seems to be the only "open" time traveller so far seen. does this mean hes breaking some law of the future that youre not allowed to go back in time unless you keep down?

hehe its probably a hoax, but if it IS real ...

Well, I remember reading that he said there are an infinite amount of worldlines. He has traveled back on a different one then his but very similar to the oringal with the exceptions of like some books note getting published etc. So it really wouldn't matter if you were to kill your grandfather. He also mentions in some IRC logs that he is staying with his parents and "him" at age 2.

? posted by 2dmin

hehe its probably a hoax, but if it IS real ...

Then he'll be the only hope for our universe when the brain spawn come and attack us, his superior yet inferior mind will enable him to fend off the attacking brain waves of the delta quadrant. Him being his own grandfather and all.

lol.

bwahahaha what would the world be like without futurama?

well, i must say that mr titor makes for a very interesting read.....not insomuch as a "realistic theory", but as a somewhat beneficial "wakeup call" to get our s**t together....something that deep in our hearts and minds, we really already know...at one point he says hes sad because we dont see the signposts....i'd have to agree with that. its worth noting that much of what he "said" is in actuality, the logical outcome of an existance of turning a blind eye....i dont know s**t about global warming, but just being out in the sunshine for a few years, ive noticed changes on my own....things such as genetic hybrid plantlife etc; now we all know that this is not really "natural", despite what we tell ourselves, but we continue to do exactly what we know is not good. sucking the planet dry.....building an h bomb, followed by an "a" bomb....and countless other examples....

as hard to swallow as this piece is, i think it serves as a good reminder of our place in the universe...

we dont really amount to dry s**t, in the big picture....
but its the only one we have.... :wink:

Doc Brass... :dodgy:

We can travel forward in time can't we? Cus the faster you go the faster time gets or something strangely wierd (you only notice it near the speed of light or something)... Plus don't we need the power of a star to do it too?

The faster you move, the slower time goes for you, and your actual length (as observed by stationary observers) decreases. Apparently; I've just started doing Special Relativity, and I'm still wondering whose ass the Lorentz transformation was pulled out of and why it's the correct description of the world! (this is basically a transformation that tells you how distances and time change with your speed, with respect to another observer)

i know its an interesting topic Lep, but id be thinking youd be on to more useful topics, such as, "where can i find a good moisturizer".... :heee:

**runs

Doc B... :dodgy:

Relativity has been extreemly well tested. time dialation effects have actualy been measured. it my have come out of someones ass originaly, but there is a massive ammount of evidence behind it now.

Well, now you come to mention it I am looking for waterproof sellotape...

how bout a solar powered torch? :razz:
http://www.webspawner.com/users/dainmiller1988/
nothing to do with torches btw, anyone else ever hear of this Philadelphia Experiment? i read in a book about it and there was another exp to do with time travel using wormholes or something.
/edit found it. The Montauk Project,

Yes, it's a load of crap. I think they were just trying some degaussing experiments, things went a bit wrong electricity wise (the idea was that you passed huge currents through cables surrounding the ship to remove the magnetic field, and make the ship immune to magnetic mines) and the sailors went off and started talking out of their arses :/ If the ship travels in time or has people embedded in the hull, it's not going to be sailing around normally the next day... :argh:

i gathered. all this stuff seams to be connected, from the ship -timetravel - mind control -giant lizard men -aliens.
someone has a lot of time on their hands!

what if I went back in time and met myself as a kid... and then I stabbed the young myself with a knife in the arm or something... would a scar appear on my arm then? Or what would happen if I took the young myself "back" to the future?

Considering the infinite number of possibilities presented at every second, I'd rather not go back in time, for fear of making things even worse.

If I could travel in time I would go to the future and buy an ?ber computer and HL3 and go back home and enjoy :biggrin:

OtZman said:
If I could travel in time I would go to the future and buy an ?ber computer and HL3 and go back home and enjoy :biggrin:

If the idea of time-travel doesn't hold any deeper, more fundamental temptation for you, then I envy you.

sigh I know exactly what I would do if I could travel back in time. If only I'd been granted one day's grace

well, even according to the illustrious mr titor, i wont be alive when it happens anyway, so..... :smile:

Doc B... :dodgy:

If I could travel through time, what would I do?.

Well the choices are endless. For personal gain I suppose I might go back to a simpler time like America after WWII and invest a bit here and there. That would be a selfish thing though.

Maybe a pop into the future for a gander, to see what we've become. Potentially frightening knowledge there eh?

Would I change anything? or attempt to? Probably not. The potential rammifications are too many to consider that.

Maybe I could save Kennedy, or John Lennon, or Martin L. King. Would'nt that be grand. I tend to agree with Mr. Titor though. I'd probably be taken for a loon and no one would believe me anyways. If he is what he says though, I cant imagine that he'd reveal himself as such. He's probably in big trouble . Seems to me, making yourself known in any fashion (especially with pics of the machine and diagrams and all) would be like breaking the most basic of Time Travel rules. Like the Prime Directive sort of thing.

Cool reading though.

PS is John Titor an anagram for anything maybe?

travelling backwards in time itself (not killing anyone) creates a paradox thus is impossible, as nature abhors paradoxs (As well as vacuum cleaners but thats another Larson concept)

travelling forward to say 1 january, 2100 is possible if a time machine is available now. if you stay in 2100 for like 12 months and 'return' to febuary 2004 several minutes after you 'left', it becomes part of your past. thus you cant go back to the year of 2100, as it will create a paradox. you wouldve gained a years worth of life within several minutes. nifty eh?

the fun really begins when: youre about to return to feb, 2004 in like december of 2100 a time traveller from 2030 kills you... do you die in 2030 (long lived time traveller assumed) or in 2100? hes not infringing on his past or yours so...hmm

/2 cents

Why would you want to travel in time if you knew you were going to change it? What use would that be?

I'm more for the idea that we should accept reality as it is, with all its evils attached.

yer kinda young to be this cynical cass.....what gives bud?

Doc B...

Why is that cynical? it's merely pragmatic; I couldn't agree more.

time travel backwords wont happen otherwise we would of realised it by now but time travel forwords could be posible, a bit like Teminator, but backwords

Cassius said:
Why would you want to travel in time if you knew you were going to change it? What use would that be?

I'm more for the idea that we should accept reality as it is, with all its evils attached.

Bah, there's nothing more annoying than a man who has no regrets :razz:

[joke]
Comeon, time travel? Sure, its possible, but whats the point? If theres anything we learned from the Back to the Future movies, its that time travel can only have bad consequences!
[/joke]

But seriously, time travel into the past could not possibly work because your being there would inevitably change the future youre from. IMO theres a "tree" of events, any time multiple things are possible that branch splits, so theres a different universe for each possibility. So, you go down the tree, means you change events, means you go up a different branch. So, if you were to travel into the past, you could never return. This scenario is demonstrated (vastly simplified of course) in Back to the Future 2. :biggrin: However, using this model, travelling back in time (and the paradoxes implied) can be possible. It also explains why we havent met any time travellers yet.

Gollum said:

Cassius said:
Why would you want to travel in time if you knew you were going to change it? What use would that be?

I'm more for the idea that we should accept reality as it is, with all its evils attached.

Bah, there's nothing more annoying than a man who has no regrets :razz:

It's not a matter of no regrets. I know exactly what I would do given the opertunity. The problem is that I worry that I might make things immeasureably worse.

Well, you also don't know what bad parts of history, or even your life, have created good parts of the world, or your own personality; the whole concept of going back in time obviously comes from the desire to fix things you or others have done wrong (to go forward is another matter), but sometimes it's quite hard to see the true ends and purposes of our actions... instead of trying to wipe our history clean, we should accept it with all the stupid mistakes and terrible atrocities, because we have no idea what purpose they may have had.