tm_seether

ohhhhhh, me likes the look of this one!

Very nice work on this map. I think this would be a good map to play on in TS. I think you should just change the crate textures in picture 1. Other than that, well done Hugh.

I don't like the crates in the first shot - the texture seems too blurry and perhaps a little bright (as in the crates look too new) against the rest of the scene. Otherwise it looks cool, good job

I like the looks of this very much. I agree with Reno about the crates in the first shot, they look... I dunno clean, you should use a dirtier crate texture. I very much like the third screenshot!! Very nice work!

never use crates, larger than the door they came in thru

Hey, my maps still certifiably in the beta stage, so comments, suggestions and various other what have yous would be appreciated.

And don't point out the crates in the first pic, I know they're weird. :smile:

Good, but not great. Needs that extra unf if you see what I mean - something to really define it. And, needs to look more crisp and realistic in general - it's pretty plain.

The last pic is by far the best, but you definatly need more dramtic lighting even there.

Some nice touches - like the fades on the lights - but fairly dull architecture. The shapes aren't interesting enough (look like boxes filled with stuff).

Overall I like it, but for example the second screenshot deffinately needs more detail. I like the vent and girder thing on the ceiling, but I would imagine you have a lot of spare polys with which you could give the room a more interesting structure (wall supports, joists). If it was me, I would try putting in some kind of crane type thing (maybe attatched to the ceiling) in that room - it could have one of the big containers hanging from it and swaying slightly with a func_pendulum. I don't really know anything about The Specialists, so I can't say anything about the gameplay. Good luck for the competition :smile:

nice map there is alot of theme there i would suggest adding a sort of rain thing. E.g. on the windows that are on the cieling make a rain effect on them sort of like the water effect on dh_sunken and maby make a rain sprite for outside this will add your effectness of the theme.

Your second pic looks a bit to much like cs you should try making somthing intersting there (if you have the wpoly) this looks like a fun map to play on aslong as there is lots of explosive weapons :razz:

Overall a nice map

+ you might want to change your map name to tm_seether_beta1 so that when you release it for critisicm you dont release the final version :smile: Although you did mention it was in the beta stage

Anywho Good luck.

Thanks for the comments, here's my responses so hopefully I get more. :biggrin:

Cassius: I agree about the plainness, any cool ideas you're willing to share? :smile:

Tracer Bullet: By dramatic lighting, do you mean more contrast between light and dark?

Gollum: But they're curvy boxes filled with stuff. :wink: Anyway, you have any good ideas on how to implement something like that? Generally, open spaces are frowned upon in TS, but eh, if it looks good, they/I won't care. :smile:

scary_jeff: Wall supports, good idea! There is a rather large and boring expanse of wall. :smile:

Pegs: I'll have to get dh_sunken to understand what you're talking about. And I'm not even sure I can release it for criticism, at least not publicly... hopefully private beta-testing will work... especially since they won't know about it...

Yes I'm talikng about contrast. light_spot is one of the most underused and usefull entities available.

Hugh said:
Pegs: I'll have to get dh_sunken to understand what you're talking about. And I'm not even sure I can release it for criticism, at least not publicly... hopefully private beta-testing will work... especially since they won't know about it...

Rofl

It's only the first and second screens that look boxy. It may not be practical at this stage to redo the architecture, but you could try breaking up the outline a bit. Try getting some ideas from your favourite custom levels (as long as it's not "Killbox" :wink: ).

Gollum said:
It's only the first and second screens that look boxy. It may not be practical at this stage to redo the architecture, but you could try breaking up the outline a bit. Try getting some ideas from your favourite custom levels (as long as it's not "Killbox" :wink: ).

Or any other killbox variants (eg. Most custom CS maps)

Hey, the map is looking pretty good so far, but I would change a few things, like adding a few details here and there, make some more vertical play (ladders on those crates will do well), and some lighting tweaks.

Rightio. I'm gonna guess that room symmetry is bad... not to say that the rooms are clones of each other, but the layout is the same for each.

And I'll get crackin' on some details.

warehouse sorry.. ah at least its a nicer looking warehouse
someone mentioned popcorn

1st Screen:

• func_illusionary additive light things are too "intense". Tone down the render amount.
• Since the ceiling is reasonably boring/plain, I assume you don't want people to see it. Try to direct your lighting downwards. Use light_spots for this, preferably. Texture lights can't be controlled very well (compared to lights and light_spots) - if you have a few, they can easily saturate an entire room.
• Wasted opportunity along the middle road thing. Again, use light_spots along important areas (doorways, windows, signs, important walkways) to put more emphasis on them and build contrast with the lighting.

2nd Screen:

• There's some sort of mapping error on the right? Lodged inside the grey-ish concrete thing.
• Don't place lights haphazardly; many texture lights do very little for a room, but a few strategic light_spots can do lots more for atmosphere.
• Seems kind of strange for a small red flourscent light to cast such a strong light on the crate.
• Add more interest on the floor (height variation, broken tile, different floor textures, etc.)
• Add more interest along the walls, mostly the top area of the brick walls. Perhaps pipes, or concrete support pillars, or whatever.

3rd screen:

• Get rid of the wires holding the lights (waste of wpoly that could go to other things) or make them thinner (maybe 2 units thick?)
• Wood paneling on the ceiling doesn't seem to fit the ceiling / shape... I don't think it's really possible to even place the wood panels like that! Possibly replace with concrete instead and accent it with wood supports?
• Get more contrast from the four lights in the middle of the room. Look at the floor area below the lights, and it seems to be uniform with the rest of the room.
• Far back wall (partial shadow) needs something there, maybe a picture or a vent or a support or whatever.

General:

• How many bounces are you doing in RAD? Don't do too many, because it'll just wash out the lighting in your rooms and rob them of contrast. I find 2-3 is generally good enough to get smooth but okay results. Experiment.
• Texture lights are not the end-all solution most people claim them to be. You can't direct where they shine very well, and as I said before (combined with light bounces) can end up lighting up an entire room. Lighting isn't something you throw around a map to make it playable; it has a direct effect on gameplay, influencing decisions on an almost subconscious level. Players will naturally hide in the darkness if they're low on health, or walk through doors that are lighted stronger than the rest of the room. Basically, the brighter, the more "important" it is.
• I agree with Gollum; the map overall lacks interesting set pieces or something really unique or eye-catching. While it's not terribly bad, it's not terribly good either. Try working on getting some more interesting shapes and forms around the map. A lot of it seems pretty boxy/rectangular, which isn't terribly interesting.

Phew, that was long. But you said you wanted it. Whatever. :smile:

Danke schoen. :biggrin: I've tweaked and added a bunch of stuff now, so I'll probably update the screens on Friday/Saturday, depending on how many of your ideas I decide to implement (before Friday/Saturday, that is; most of 'em are good :smile: ).

Note that the lighting in the pictures doesn't look like that in-game, I just tweaked the gamma since they looked obscenely dark...

Pah, updated only one of the screens, but I believe it got transformed from the ugliest picture to the prettiest one, so hey. :smile: I've made progress on the other two, but there really hasn't been enough difference to justify a new screenie just yet. So yeah, hope you like the new screen, #2 in case you couldn't tell. :wink:

Hugh, there seems to be something embeedded in the middle section of the wall in screen 2 in two places. One is under the window thing and the other is on the wall perpendicular to it.

No, there's nothing embedded there, that's just my crappy video card. :sad:

... wow. Takes me a long time to update screenshots. Anyway, critique away.

:kitty:

I absolutely love screens 2 and 3. However, # 1 is lacking. the glaring thing that bothers me is those fades you have on the lights are WAY to obvious. other than that, it just feels lacking in terms of architecture, but that may just be a function of the angle from which the screen was taken.

Nah, that first pic doesn't suffer from angle-related architectural deficiencies, I just can't really think of any good details for it (as you have noticed). I'll adjust the fades, though (again.) :smile:

Beta version released. It still sucks, but at least this way I'll get some ideas and motivation to finish the bastard.