[map] Titanic

I've done two compiles thus far. The first one, I then made a 13 minute Youtube video of it walking around. I think the link is on page 2 somewhere.

I compiled it again last night after working on it for the last two weeks while away on business. The frame rate dropped drastically, so I know I'll have some stuff to do there. VVIS is on fast compile so I dont know if that has anything to do with it. Maybe.

I've been reading this guide last night: http://optimization.interlopers.net/index.php?chapter=intro and its provided some useful info.

Havent had a chance to work on the map in the last three days though. Hopefully I'll have some time later today or tomorrow.

Here's the latest compile log. I did run a full VVIS but it looks like that failed. I've highlighted areas in red in the log that concern me. I've not done any optimizations yet so that could likely (hopefully) be the cause of the error.

Any suggestions?


** Executing...
** Command: "i:\steam\steamapps\*\sourcesdk\bin\source2009\bin\vbsp.exe"
** Parameters: -game "i:\steam\steamapps\wildcard832\half-life 2\hl2" "C:\Users\*\Desktop\Titanic\Titanic.vmf"

Valve Software - vbsp.exe (Sep 15 2011)
6 threads
materialPath: i:\steam\steamapps\*\half-life 2\hl2\materials
Loading C:\Users\*\Desktop\Titanic\Titanic.vmf
ConVarRef mat_reduceparticles doesn't point to an existing ConVar
Could not locate 'GameData' key in i:\steam\steamapps\*\half-life 2\hl2\gameinfo.txt
fixing up env_cubemap materials on brush sides...
ProcessBlock_Thread: 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 (2)
ProcessBlock_Thread: 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 (2)
Processing areas...done (0)
Building Faces...done (0)
FixTjuncs...
PruneNodes...
WriteBSP...
done (8)
writing C:\Users\*\Desktop\Titanic\Titanic.prt...Building visibility clusters...
done (1)
Creating default LDR cubemaps for env_cubemap using skybox materials:
skybox/sky_day01_01*.vmt
! Run buildcubemaps in the engine to get the correct cube maps.
Creating default HDR cubemaps for env_cubemap using skybox materials:
skybox/sky_day01_01*.vmt
! Run buildcubemaps in the engine to get the correct cube maps.
Finding displacement neighbors...
Finding lightmap sample positions...
Displacement Alpha : 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10
Building Physics collision data...
done (1) (1668018 bytes)
Placing detail props : 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10
Compacting texture/material tables...
Reduced 5222 texinfos to 4018
Reduced 26 texdatas to 23 (604 bytes to 485)
Writing C:\Users\*\Desktop\Titanic\Titanic.bsp
15 seconds elapsed

** Executing...
** Command: "i:\steam\steamapps\*\sourcesdk\bin\source2009\bin\vvis.exe"
** Parameters: -game "i:\steam\steamapps\*\half-life 2\hl2" "C:\Users\Nicolas\Desktop\Titanic\Titanic"

Valve Software - vvis.exe (Sep 15 2011)
6 threads
reading c:\users\*\desktop\titanic\Titanic.bsp
reading c:\users\*\desktop\titanic\Titanic.prt
11171 portalclusters
35110 numportals
The map overflows the max portal count (35110 of max 32768)!

** Executing...
** Command: "i:\steam\steamapps\*\sourcesdk\bin\source2009\bin\vrad.exe"
** Parameters: -game "i:\steam\steamapps\*\half-life 2\hl2" "C:\Users\*\Desktop\Titanic\Titanic"

Valve Software - vrad.exe SSE (Sep 15 2011)

Valve Radiosity Simulator
6 threads
[Reading texlights from 'lights.rad']
[45 texlights parsed from 'lights.rad']

Loading c:\users\*\desktop\titanic\Titanic.bsp
No vis information, direct lighting only.
Setting up ray-trace acceleration structure... Done (3.37 seconds)
36347 faces
12 degenerate faces
3285656 square feet [473134496.00 square inches]
0 Displacements
0 Square Feet [0.00 Square Inches]
0 direct lights
BuildFacelights: 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 (3)
Build Patch/Sample Hash Table(s).....Done<0.1403 sec>
FinalLightFace: 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 (25)
FinalLightFace Done
0 of 0 (0% of) surface lights went in leaf ambient cubes.
ThreadComputeLeafAmbient: 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 (21)
Writing leaf ambient...done
Ready to Finish

Object names Objects/Maxobjs Memory / Maxmem Fullness
------------ --------------- --------------- --------
models 1/1024 48/49152 ( 0.1%)
brushes 4359/8192 52308/98304 (53.2%)
brushsides 29312/65536 234496/524288 (44.7%)
planes 8138/65536 162760/1310720 (12.4%)
vertexes 46559/65536 558708/786432 (71.0%)
nodes 18964/65536 606848/2097152 (28.9%)
texinfos 4018/12288 289296/884736 (32.7%)
texdata 23/2048 736/65536 ( 1.1%)
dispinfos 0/0 0/0 ( 0.0%)
disp_verts 0/0 0/0 ( 0.0%)
disp_tris 0/0 0/0 ( 0.0%)
disp_lmsamples 0/0 0/0 ( 0.0%)
faces 36347/65536 2035432/3670016 (55.5%)
hdr faces 0/65536 0/3670016 ( 0.0%)
origfaces 18066/65536 1011696/3670016 (27.6%)
leaves 18966/65536 606912/2097152 (28.9%)
leaffaces 42379/65536 84758/131072 (64.7%)
leafbrushes 9306/65536 18612/131072 (14.2%)
areas 2/256 16/2048 ( 0.8%)
surfedges 249290/512000 997160/2048000 (48.7%)
edges 138117/256000 552468/1024000 (54.0%)
LDR worldlights 0/8192 0/720896 ( 0.0%)
HDR worldlights 0/8192 0/720896 ( 0.0%)
leafwaterdata 0/32768 0/393216 ( 0.0%)
waterstrips 3175/32768 31750/327680 ( 9.7%)
waterverts 0/65536 0/786432 ( 0.0%)
waterindices 56163/65536 112326/131072 (85.7%) VERY FULL!
cubemapsamples 0/1024 0/16384 ( 0.0%)
overlays 0/512 0/180224 ( 0.0%)
LDR lightdata [variable] 12092504/0 ( 0.0%)
HDR lightdata [variable] 0/0 ( 0.0%)
visdata [variable] 0/16777216 ( 0.0%)
entdata [variable] 437/393216 ( 0.1%)
LDR ambient table 18966/65536 75864/262144 (28.9%)
HDR ambient table 18966/65536 75864/262144 (28.9%)
LDR leaf ambient 11171/65536 312788/1835008 (17.0%)
HDR leaf ambient 18966/65536 531048/1835008 (28.9%)
occluders 0/0 0/0 ( 0.0%)
occluder polygons 0/0 0/0 ( 0.0%)
occluder vert ind 0/0 0/0 ( 0.0%)
detail props [variable] 1/12 ( 8.3%)
static props [variable] 1/12 ( 8.3%)
pakfile [variable] 212138/0 ( 0.0%)
physics [variable] 1668018/4194304 (39.8%)
physics terrain [variable] 2/1048576 ( 0.0%)

Level flags = 0

Total triangle count: 103112
Writing c:\users\*\desktop\titanic\Titanic.bsp
54 seconds elapsed

** Executing...
** Command: Copy File
** Parameters: "C:\Users\*\Desktop\Titanic\Titanic.bsp" "i:\steam\steamapps\*\half-life 2\hl2\maps\Titanic.bsp"

** Executing...
** Command: i:\steam\steam.exe
** Parameters: -applaunch 220 -game "i:\steam\steamapps\*\half-life 2\hl2" +map "Titanic"

Talk to Mazemaster. (Nick Alger from my FB page)
He knows how to do this.

---

The best things in life, aren't things.

I'll keep him in mind later on. Im starting to re-learn (or learn?) the concepts of how the engine works (never did map anything for HL2) I seem to recall func_detail brush entities existed in HL1. Or something similar.

Following this page https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Func_detail I've grouped and func_detail'ed a whole bunch of support columns (notably in the Fore Grand Staircase that Im working on, and the A Deck Promenade) as well as the brushes between windows at the A Deck Promenade, Café Parisian, Second Class Library, Smoke Room, and the railings on the boat deck, as well as between the Bridge and Wheelhouse windows (probably others that Im forgetting about now) and the number of portals went down:

Before func_detail: 36527 of max 32768
After func_detail: 30477

So thats a good start. It didnt impact whatsoever the framerate, which goes down to about 20 FPS when facing the length of the ship, but I think a full VVIS compile would solve that?

I assume thats also why mat_wireframe 1 doesnt work either.

Yeah you're gonna have to pull out all and every optimising trick for the outer deck areas. Source is known to suck for distance rendering. Inside can be dealt with a bit easier.

• The number of visleaves can be controlled by converting chunks into func_detail as you've discovered, but be smart with your walls/bulkheads etc too, where you may need to convert some to func_detail to keep the leaf count lower. Once you get into corner hinting the count will probably start to rise again.

• Build a box of vertical hints around the deck perimeter ( keep it as rectangular as possible, dont worry about slicing through brushes, simple is better ) in order to hide decks from eachother.

• Areaportals are going to be your friends.

• Displacements are the cheapest brush. Use them wherever you can, bearing in mind that they don't take lighting the same; but they can still be just flat surfaces no problem.

• Look into converting brushes to static props with Propper so you can take advantage of fade distances. Be aggressive with these fades too on all models, and turn all collisions off until you decide waht the minimun necessary is.

• Start deciding on your light_environment settings so you can get busy with fog.

• Make sure your very first sprite / lightglow has some aggressive fading as well, then copy that one around as needed

• Won't hurt to bump all lightmap density down to 4 or so and then tweak upwards as needed.

• Cheat with water as much as you can, even turn it into func_detail or _illusionary if you don't foresee player access

• Careful with your entity I/O as you go

In short, start catching as much as you can now, because it will be a real drag spending countless hours on optimising later. Booooring

Well VVIS has been compiling on 4 2.8GHz threads for 24 hours now I wonder how much longer it has to go.

But thats no surprise since I havent done anything and the whole of the ship is wrapped in a giant box.

haymaker, in the words of Will Smith (ID4): "Can you really do all that shit you just said?"

yes strangely enough all that shit is possible...if you like I can try and dig up some old vmfs where Ive done things like that...

Another thing to watch is info_overlay fades, when you start using them ( carpets, artwork ) set the fades aggresively and adjust to minimum standards.

And, in the words of Jeff Goldblum / David Levinson: You really think you can fly that thing?

If you build it, they will come. Both mentally and physically.

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The best things in life, aren't things.

haymaker said:
yes strangely enough all that shit is possible...if you like I can try and dig up some old vmfs where Ive done things like that...

Another thing to watch is info_overlay fades, when you start using them ( carpets, artwork ) set the fades aggresively and adjust to minimum standards.

And, in the words of Jeff Goldblum / David Levinson: You really think you can fly that thing?

I would have gone with, "You will remember to wash your hands before you eat anything?", but to each his own.

---

Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

Well VVIS has been running straight for 4 days now on 4 cores. Im going to stop it and assume its just gotten stuck or something. While its running I cant work on the map..

Whatt'yas compiling on?

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The best things in life, aren't things.

AMD Phenom II X6 1055T (2.8GHz) but set it to use 4 cores instead of 6.

4 days yuck.

You have some serious geometry problems, or too much information somewhere....

Try converting everything to func_detail on a save copy and see how vvis chops it up. Its hould just be in 1024x cubes.

yea I know I have serious problems in the map , for one, its one big giant killbox, about 1480 units wide, and 16000 units long, and probably 3000 units high.

For two, I hadnt really func_detail'ed much, just enough to see if it brought down my numportals, which it did.

Im going to work later on closing off unfinished areas of the ship and getting rid of the giant box. That'll for sure help.

Question: I finally opened up some of my old RMF files (It impressed me the work I had!) I noticed I had a lot of brushes as func_wall which from reading on VDC is legacy and has been replaced by func_detail and func_brush. But I cant really get a clear difference in when to use a func_detail versus a func_brush, or advantages and disadvantages of either.

I know in the HL days, func_wall brushes did not block light, is this the same case with either func_detail or func_brush?

Another question, I did a quick Google and found that "waterindices" are caused by overlapping brush work which (at least back in the HL days) equates to sloppy mapping. While I do have about 4500 brushes currently, I can say with almost absolute certainty that none of my brushes overlap. I've always been extremely meticulous about that. However, on last compile, my "waterindices" were around 98% stating "VERY FULL". What else could cause this and is this a concern?

A few questions on models:
Is there a limit on the amount of models you can have in a map, or in a certain area? Do they block light now? Do players bump on models or do you still need clip brushes? What are some examples of things to model? In HL it used to just be NPCs, weapons, sprites. Would a complex door mechanism (such as the water tight doors on the ship) be good candiates for models? What about the iron work in railings of the Grand Staircases, or the outside railings all over the ship? What else would be good candidates?

Thanks!

I'll attempt a couple of those q's

func_detail has no i/o capability, cheap; where func_brush is capable of toggling solid, colours, visbility, rendermode etc; more expensive.

func_detail used to have a bug where light would bleed through intersections, I am unsure if this is fixed in engine updates. They cast shadows correctly as expected. I don't remember how func_brush deals with light except that it takes on a slightly different 'hue'.

idk about waterindices. I've never seen issues with it.

Models will block light depending on what their attributes are. Most static props will cast correct shadows if -staticproppolys and -staticproplighting is used at final compile. Generally you disable shadows on these because they suck, try a bush/tree and you'll see. Dynamic props will cast dynamic shadows so use sparingly. All of your ideas for model candidtaes make sense to me. Basically anything you want to have an advanced LOD over plain brushes, and be able to fade from engine rendering while still being present in the PVS.

Spent the last few hours getting rid of the killbox. It only remains on the top outside portion of the map. Everywhere else is sealed. Plugged up about 30 or so leaks, some big but most of them around 1unit in size (variable lengths).

Last compile log shows the numportals down to 16209, which is significantly down from the previous 30473. As well, the waterindices dropped from 91.6% to 66.5%.

The FPS also went up significantly. Whereas they used to drop to around 20 FPS for the most part, they now only dropped to 100 FPS but only while at the bow and stern of the ship. Elsewhere it was back up to 300.

Huge improvements.

Late now. I'll try another full VVIS on all 6 cores and see how it fares.

Dunno if this is an option but, you may need to find a large intel machine to compile on in the end.
Even though AMD has lots of cores now, I have noticed that they still suck when it comes to crunching lots of numbers.
I have 2 laptops. A 4 year old intel dual core and a 1 year old AMD dual core.
The amd runs faster but takes twice as long ripping movies.. Ripping books and/or converting books to MP3.

Your call though.

---

The best things in life, aren't things.

I've only got two options here:

1) AMD Phenom II X6 2.8GHz w/4gb RAM
2) Intel Pentium M 1.6GHz w/ 1gb RAM

And option 2 isnt really an option as its my Linux server.

Its interesting though, last time I ran the full VVIS with the killbox it was consuming almost 2gb of RAM and now its consuming 400mb.

Got the forward section of D Deck completed, along with the First Class Reception and First Class Dining Saloon. Skipping the galleys for now and started on the Second Class Dining Saloon.

Tonight's brush count is 4800 on the nose.

Earlier today I experimented with loading the portal file to check out the visleafs, neat stuff that is. Converted a lot of the staircases to func_detail for now, and got the numportals down further from 16000 to 10000 or thereabouts. Good enough for now, I'll do the more fine tuning on that later, but the majority of the areas that needed the fixing were the two Grand Staircases, especially the forward one since I created all the railings and posts that go along with it (and didnt func_detail the railings, just the posts)

More of the D Deck areas are complete now: Second Class Dining Saloon, and the area immediately aft of it.

Also started detailing both Second Class Staircases. That will be a pain to get right since measurements dont exist and I have to do best guess based on only the one or two photographs which seem to exist of the staircases.

Im going to be making another video set perhaps tomorrow. Although this time I may break it down to one video per deck or something.

Worked on the Second Class staircases some more today, as well as sections of D Deck. Then compiled and made another 12 minute video giving off a quick tour of the ship thus far.

You can view it at this link: http://youtu.be/jHMj6Py6JkU

Let me know what you guys think!

Havent had the chance to work on Titanic the last few days due to life But I was able to put in a bit of time tonight.

I'd say about a third of E Deck is now built, and now the brush count is at 5656.

Two more pics for the new progress, although now its somewhat more difficult to show newer sections as Im building the decks from the top down.

I've been tracking this thread for a while now and I'm really impressed!
Can't wait to see more

Update, most of the work on E Deck is complete and starting on F Deck. The layout is more complicated on the lower decks, coupled with the lack of lateral measurements its a pain.

The brush count is now at 6022.

eukos said:
I've been tracking this thread for a while now and I'm really impressed!
Can't wait to see more

Hey eukos, Welcome!

If you want to you can leave a topic behind in the introduction forum.

That is, if you plan on staying of course

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Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/Nibgames

Put in several hours today into the ship's stern, finishing off the F Deck at the stern, and then working on the laterals to trim the width of the ship appropriately on F, E, D, C, and the Poop decks, as well as getting the proper size and location (but not specific shape) for the rudder. Its been well known that Titanic's rudder was inefficient given it's small size. Here you can really see it. Here are the results:

Wow! It's cool to see the steady progression of the map over time! Looking forward to see more.

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http://maze5.net

A fair bit of work, although its been slower these days. I've focused on the stern the last little while, see previous updates. I've added to the F Deck from the stern to the Engineer's Quarters above the Reciprocating Engine Room. Also worked on the Third and Second Class cabins on G Deck at the stern, aft of the #4 hatches.

Im up to 6570 brushes now, getting ever so closer to the 8296 brush limit by BSP. Omegaslayer had mentioned he knew of a compiler with a higher brush count, and I've PMed him, but if anyone else is aware of one, please let me know. I've also posted in the editing help section about that.

Although you may notice that for now Im focusing mostly on hallways (from the screenshots) I will come back after the basic layout is complete and add in every single room on the ship, from cabins to lavs, to storage, to escapes. Once the basic layout is complete it'll be easier to add those rooms in.

Here are some new screenshots to show the progress, here you can view the progress at the stern:

Wild Card said:
Question: I finally opened up some of my old RMF files (It impressed me the work I had!) I noticed I had a lot of brushes as func_wall which from reading on VDC is legacy and has been replaced by func_detail and func_brush. But I cant really get a clear difference in when to use a func_detail versus a func_brush, or advantages and disadvantages of either.

Func_detail is nothing too special. To the compiler it is essentially still part of the world, however it wont split faces, block vis, or chop vis portals. Other than that you can treat it as a regular brush (and it still counts towards the MAX_MAP_BRUSHES limit). You can also achieve the same effect by turning the geometry into a displacement surface. Which I recommend doing if you have "thick" pipes (instead of cylinders).

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Posting And You

This is looking immense. Probably big enough for a single-player episode. Congratulations on your perseverance! I can't hack it in VHE anymore, I'm too slow.

I really hope you've backed this up to removable media / web though :O

Thanks. I've been stubbornly persistent with this project. I have been keeping backups, but nothing offsite. I should... /me does

I havent really had it in mind to make something single player. The most famous Titanic game was Titanic: Adventure out of Time (AOOT), created by Cyberflix in.. 98 I think. It was a fun game. There was - I found out recently - a HL2 mod to recreate Titanic: AOOT but it seems that has died. There is also the Titanic: Lost in the Darkness Crysis mod, but I dont really want to compete by offering a storyline or single player career.

One thing I was thinking of doing is having some sort of interactive "audio buttons" which could describe events or persons from the real story of Titanic.

Of course, a better version of dm_titanic could still be on the table :P 1 v 1 on the whole Titanic anyone

I'll probably make another Youtube shortly. Theres been some good progress lately.

Am I the only person that thinks the obvious solution would be the cut it up and make it into a series of 'The Ship' maps?

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

Make a single player mod. You can rescue the poor folks this time and change history.

If he can't get it within the limits maybe but big maps can be cool too.

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The best things in life, aren't things.

I think it would be more fun to have it all in one giant map, but I'll cut it up if I have to for performance reasons.

I recommend cutting it vertically. Last time it was cut horizontally, it sank.

---

The best things in life, aren't things.

It was also cut vertically if you recall :P

Focus shifted from the stern to the bow now that the major work at the stern is complete. That is, Third and Second Classes down to G Deck as well as the Third Class entrance and stairs. Also finished some of the crew areas on C Deck below the Forecastle, and the Third Class open area below the Well Deck. Not much to easily show in screenshots but I should be able to get another Youtube out in a week or so.

With all the added staircases, the brush count went up real quick, now at 7005.

Cut.. Split... I dunno if those two concepts are interchangable. I do admit that parts went separate ways though. LOL

---

The best things in life, aren't things.

There's been a lot of work done at the ship's bow now. Again the architecture isnt as simple as the upper decks at the middle of the ship. Some third class spaces here but mostly crew spaces. The firemen and trimmer sleeping areas, 54 and 24 men per room, respectively. Along with a seamen sleeping area for 44. Their respective mess halls as well as the spiral staircases which descend from D Deck down to the Tank Top to give access to the Firemen and Trimmers to the boiler rooms and coal bunkers.

Not a whole lot to see in the screenshot though. Brush count is at 7420 now. Hammer is starting to slow down a times, and has even crashed on a few occasions. Guess Valve didnt plan on maps having that many brushes in a single level. The fact that almost all brushes are 1 unit or some at 2 units doesnt help either I bet.

Finished sizing out the spiral staircases, in the game they need to be slightly bigger than on the real ship (per blue prints) due to the collision hull of the player. One thing I've noticed in the last several compile logs are the following errors:

10 degenerate faces
[...]
Stack overflow in neighbors

Im not sure what degenerate faces are, the map reports no problems, and as far as I can tell, I've had at least 8 for a very long time now.

The stack overflow is new, since the last few compiles, but Im not sure whats causing it. I thought it was the spiral staircases but I removed those and no dice. I'll have to check that some more.

Also, it seems ZHLT isnt for HL2?

Dunno if its still even possible but can you still "export to map?"

That used to remove all invalids.

---

The best things in life, aren't things.

I dont see that. Thing is, they dont show up as invalids when checking for problems.

In fact, I found two of the brushes, in staircases. Thing is, the steps are func_details. But if I turn them back to world brushes, they're fine. But back to entities, and they degenerate. Even deleting and re-creating doesnt seem to fix.

[edit]
Still on the hunt for the 8 other degenerate brushes. However I did find the cause (but not yet the solution) to the stack overflow. Deleting some staircases in the Third Class Entrance resolves the error, and then brings me back to waterindices being very full...

Dont know if Im chasing a ghost or not.. Here's the latest compile log:

** Executing...
** Command: "i:\steam\steamapps\wildcard832\sourcesdk\bin\source2009\bin\vbsp.exe"
** Parameters: -game "i:\steam\steamapps\wildcard832\half-life 2\hl2" "C:\Users\Nicolas\Desktop\Titanic\Titanic.vmf"

Valve Software - vbsp.exe (Sep 15 2011)
6 threads
materialPath: i:\steam\steamapps\wildcard832\half-life 2\hl2\materials
Loading C:\Users\Nicolas\Desktop\Titanic\Titanic.vmf
ConVarRef mat_reduceparticles doesn't point to an existing ConVar
Could not locate 'GameData' key in i:\steam\steamapps\wildcard832\half-life 2\hl2\gameinfo.txt
fixing up env_cubemap materials on brush sides...
ProcessBlock_Thread: 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 (2)
ProcessBlock_Thread: 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 (1)
Processing areas...done (0)
Building Faces...done (0)
Chop Details...done (0)
Find Visible Detail Sides...
Merged 114 detail faces...done (0)
Merging details...done (0)
FixTjuncs...
PruneNodes...
WriteBSP...
done (7)
writing C:\Users\Nicolas\Desktop\Titanic\Titanic.prt...Building visibility clusters...
done (0)
Creating default LDR cubemaps for env_cubemap using skybox materials:
   skybox/sky_day01_01*.vmt
 ! Run buildcubemaps in the engine to get the correct cube maps.
Creating default HDR cubemaps for env_cubemap using skybox materials:
   skybox/sky_day01_01*.vmt
 ! Run buildcubemaps in the engine to get the correct cube maps.
Finding displacement neighbors...
Finding lightmap sample positions...
Displacement Alpha : 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10
Building Physics collision data...
done (1) (2696810 bytes)
Placing detail props : 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10
Compacting texture/material tables...
Reduced 12775 texinfos to 6776
Reduced 26 texdatas to 21 (624 bytes to 446)
Writing C:\Users\Nicolas\Desktop\Titanic\Titanic.bsp
16 seconds elapsed

** Executing...
** Command: "i:\steam\steamapps\wildcard832\sourcesdk\bin\source2009\bin\vvis.exe"
** Parameters: -game "i:\steam\steamapps\wildcard832\half-life 2\hl2" -fast "C:\Users\Nicolas\Desktop\Titanic\Titanic"

Valve Software - vvis.exe (Sep 15 2011)
fastvis = true
6 threads
reading c:\users\nicolas\desktop\titanic\Titanic.bsp
reading c:\users\nicolas\desktop\titanic\Titanic.prt
5118 portalclusters
13145 numportals
BasePortalVis:       0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 (4)
Optimized: 2272468 visible clusters (0.00%)
Total clusters visible: 12931836
Average clusters visible: 2526
Building PAS...
Average clusters audible: 4901
visdatasize:5626070  compressed from 6551040
writing c:\users\nicolas\desktop\titanic\Titanic.bsp
7 seconds elapsed

** Executing...
** Command: "i:\steam\steamapps\wildcard832\sourcesdk\bin\source2009\bin\vrad.exe"
** Parameters:  -game "i:\steam\steamapps\wildcard832\half-life 2\hl2" -noextra "C:\Users\Nicolas\Desktop\Titanic\Titanic"

Valve Software - vrad.exe SSE (Sep 15 2011)

      Valve Radiosity Simulator
6 threads
[Reading texlights from 'lights.rad']
[45 texlights parsed from 'lights.rad']

Loading c:\users\nicolas\desktop\titanic\Titanic.bsp
Setting up ray-trace acceleration structure... Done (5.82 seconds)
26685 faces
8 degenerate faces
1812435 square feet [260990704.00 square inches]
0 Displacements
0 Square Feet [0.00 Square Inches]
26677 patches before subdivision
zero area child patch
240973 patches after subdivision
0 direct lights
BuildFacelights:     0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 (2)
BuildVisLeafs:       0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 (124)
transfers 29376037, max 1994
transfer lists: 224.1 megs
GatherLight:         0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 (1)
    Bounce #1 added RGB(0, 0, 0)
Build Patch/Sample Hash Table(s).....Done<0.1143 sec>
FinalLightFace:      0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 (37)
FinalLightFace Done
0 of 0 (0% of) surface lights went in leaf ambient cubes.
ThreadComputeLeafAmbient: 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 (9)
Writing leaf ambient...done
Ready to Finish

Object names       Objects/Maxobjs  Memory / Maxmem  Fullness
------------       ---------------  ---------------  --------
models                   1/1024           48/49152    ( 0.1%)
brushes               7233/8192        86796/98304    (88.3%) VERY FULL!
brushsides           47852/65536      382816/524288   (73.0%)
planes               11102/65536      222040/1310720  (16.9%)
vertexes             40608/65536      487296/786432   (62.0%)
nodes                10574/65536      338368/2097152  (16.1%)
texinfos              6776/12288      487872/884736   (55.1%)
texdata                 21/2048          672/65536    ( 1.0%)
dispinfos                0/0               0/0        ( 0.0%)
disp_verts               0/0               0/0        ( 0.0%)
disp_tris                0/0               0/0        ( 0.0%)
disp_lmsamples           0/0               0/0        ( 0.0%)
faces                26685/65536     1494360/3670016  (40.7%)
hdr faces                0/65536           0/3670016  ( 0.0%)
origfaces            18803/65536     1052968/3670016  (28.7%)
leaves               10576/65536      338432/2097152  (16.1%)
leaffaces            33831/65536       67662/131072   (51.6%)
leafbrushes          13462/65536       26924/131072   (20.5%)
areas                    2/256            16/2048     ( 0.8%)
surfedges           208836/512000     835344/2048000  (40.8%)
edges               125808/256000     503232/1024000  (49.1%)
LDR worldlights          0/8192            0/720896   ( 0.0%)
HDR worldlights          0/8192            0/720896   ( 0.0%)
leafwaterdata            0/32768           0/393216   ( 0.0%)
waterstrips           2853/32768       28530/327680   ( 8.7%)
waterverts               0/65536           0/786432   ( 0.0%)
waterindices         60000/65536      120000/131072   (91.6%) VERY FULL!
cubemapsamples           0/1024            0/16384    ( 0.0%)
overlays                 0/512             0/180224   ( 0.0%)
LDR lightdata         [variable]     8410340/0        ( 0.0%)
HDR lightdata         [variable]           0/0        ( 0.0%)
visdata               [variable]     5626070/16777216 (33.5%)
entdata               [variable]         339/393216   ( 0.1%)
LDR ambient table    10576/65536       42304/262144   (16.1%)
HDR ambient table    10576/65536       42304/262144   (16.1%)
LDR leaf ambient      5118/65536      143304/1835008  ( 7.8%)
HDR leaf ambient     10576/65536      296128/1835008  (16.1%)
occluders                0/0               0/0        ( 0.0%)
occluder polygons        0/0               0/0        ( 0.0%)
occluder vert ind        0/0               0/0        ( 0.0%)
detail props          [variable]           1/12       ( 8.3%)
static props          [variable]           1/12       ( 8.3%)
pakfile               [variable]      212435/0        ( 0.0%)
physics               [variable]     2696810/4194304  (64.3%)
physics terrain       [variable]           2/1048576  ( 0.0%)

Level flags = 0

Total triangle count: 79432
Writing c:\users\nicolas\desktop\titanic\Titanic.bsp
2 minutes, 59 seconds elapsed

** Executing...
** Command: Copy File
** Parameters: "C:\Users\Nicolas\Desktop\Titanic\Titanic.bsp" "i:\steam\steamapps\wildcard832\half-life 2\hl2\maps\Titanic.bsp"

You'll notice the waterindices are still very high, aroudn 91-93%. Odd thing is, if I add just one step to my Third Class section (see screenshot) then rather than getting this clean compile, I get the following, with a stack overflow:

[code]** Executing...
** Command: "i:\steam\steamapps\wildcard832\sourcesdk\bin\source2009\bin\vbsp.exe"
** Parameters: -game "i:\steam\steamapps\wildcard832\half-life 2\hl2" "C:\Users\Nicolas\Desktop\Titanic\Titanic.vmf"

Valve Software - vbsp.exe (Sep 15 2011)
6 threads
materialPath: i:\steam\steamapps\wildcard832\half-life 2\hl2\materials
Loading C:\Users\Nicolas\Desktop\Titanic\Titanic.vmf
ConVarRef mat_reduceparticles doesn't point to an existing ConVar
Could not locate 'GameData' key in i:\steam\steamapps\wildcard832\half-life 2\hl2\gameinfo.txt
fixing up env_cubemap materials on brush sides...
ProcessBlock_Thread: 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 (2)
ProcessBlock_Thread: 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 (1)
Processing areas...done (0)
Building Faces...done (0)
Chop Details...done (0)
Find Visible Detail Sides...
Merged 114 detail faces...done (0)
Merging details...done (0)
FixTjuncs...
PruneNodes...
WriteBSP...
done (7)
writing C:\Users\Nicolas\Desktop\Titanic\Titanic.prt...Building visibility clusters...
done (1)
Creating default LDR cubemaps for env_cubemap using skybox materials:
skybox/sky_day01_01*.vmt
! Run buildcubemaps in the engine to get the correct cube maps.
Creating default HDR cubemaps for env_cubemap using skybox materials:
skybox/sky_day01_01*.vmt
! Run buildcubemaps in the engine to get the correct cube maps.
Finding displacement neighbors...
Finding lightmap sample positions...
Displacement Alpha : 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10
Building Physics collision data...
done (1) (2697594 bytes)
Placing detail props : 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10
Compacting texture/material tables...
Reduced 12780 texinfos to 6782
Reduced 26 texdatas to 21 (624 bytes to 446)
Writing C:\Users\Nicolas\Desktop\Titanic\Titanic.bsp
16 seconds elapsed

** Executing...
** Command: "i:\steam\steamapps\wildcard832\sourcesdk\bin\source2009\bin\vvis.exe"
** Parameters: -game "i:\steam\steamapps\wildcard832\half-life 2\hl2" -fast "C:\Users\Nicolas\Desktop\Titanic\Titanic"

Valve Software - vvis.exe (Sep 15 2011)
fastvis = true
6 threads
reading c:\users\nicolas\desktop\titanic\Titanic.bsp
reading c:\users\nicolas\desktop\titanic\Titanic.prt
5118 portalclusters
13145 numportals
BasePortalVis: 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 (5)
Optimized: 2272468 visible clusters (0.00%)
Total clusters visible: 12931836
Average clusters visible: 2526
Building PAS.

possible fix. Delete the whole staircase on the right and copy/paste the one on the left to the right.
shrugs
May work.

---

The best things in life, aren't things.

Nosir Even re-create from scratch doesnt work.

Then its a symptom, not a cause.
I remember a time where something clear across the map, effected something on the other side.
Its kinda like, you are allowed so many messed up things then one small thing makes it go critical.

I am betting, that step has nothing to do with an error.

Of course, this does nothing to help you locate the problem.
Try using the old block method. Block out a part of the map, leaving the step in until the issue goes away. Then look inside the block.

---

The best things in life, aren't things.

I had forgotten about that trick. I blocked up the ship according to the following: The ship is divided in two sections top and bottom, at the red line, and then into 28 equal sections front to back, 512 units each. The largest the grid would go.

Only towards the end I realized that since the player_start is only in one place, some of the data is skewed... Dangit. However, this is what I got. Not sure exactly where it leads me though.

Sector......Faces....Degenerates......Waterindices
up..........10928....3................24321 (37.1%)
dn..........19922....1................stack overflow
1-14........14469....8................30282 (46.2%)
15-28.......24041....2................stack overflow
1 up........102......0................60 (0.1%)
2 up........108......0................60 (0.1%)
3 up........108......0................81 (0.1%)
4 up........168......0................114 (0.2%)
5 up........98.......0................90 (0.1%)
6 up........249......0................411 (0.6%)
7 up........1163.....1................2043 (3.1%)
8 up........740......0................981 (1.5%)
9 up........1050.....0................1842 (2.8%)
10 up.......1727.....0................4662 (7.1%)
11 up.......2152.....2................5298 (8.1%)
12 up.......460......0................693 (1.1%)
13 up.......519......0................942 (1.4%)
14 up.......408......0................513 (0.8%)
15 up.......569......0................675 (1.0%)
16 up.......632......0................702 (1.1%)
17 up.......669......1................1107 (1.7%)
18 up.......1008.....0................3957 (6.0%)
19 up.......550......0................708 (1.1%)
20 up.......480......0................534 (0.8%)
21 up.......850......0................1245 (1.9%)
22 up.......261......0................507 (0.8%)
23 up.......165......0................81 (0.1%)
24 up.......97.......0................99 (0.1%)
25 up.......111......0................102 (0.2%)
26 up.......107......0................75....(0.1%)
27 up.......115......0................102 (0.2%)
28 up.......99.......0................72 (0.1%)
1 dn........35.......0................0 (0.0%)
2 dn........457......0................450 (0.7%)
3 dn........1622.....0................2265 (3.5%)
4 dn........2742.....0................5037 (7.7%)
5 dn........835......0................1278 (2.0%)
6 dn........1607.....0................3558 (5.4%)
7 dn........2178.....1................4896 (7.5%)
8 dn........1170.....0................2052 (3.1%)
9 dn........1722.....0................3708 (5.7%)
10 dn.......3808.....0................6153 (9.4%)
11 dn.......2712.....0................3858 (5.9%)
12 dn.......1222.....0................2709 (4.1%)
13 dn.......1663.....0................3876 (5.9%)
14 dn.......1636.....0................3456 (5.3%)
15 dn.......1544.....0................2817 (4.3%)
16 dn.......1815.....0................3138 (4.8%)
17 dn.......1531.....0................2403 (3.7%)
18 dn.......1811.....0................2373 (3.6%)
19 dn.......1638.....0................3072 (4.7%)
20 dn.......1855.....0................3732 (5.7%)
21 dn.......3118.....0................6051 (9.2%)
22 dn.......2288.....0................5607 (8.6%)
23 dn.......3723.....0................6960 (10.6%)
24 dn.......1612.....0................2925 (4.5%)
25 dn.......2516.....0................4473 (6.8%)
26 dn.......1359.....2................2133 (3.3%)
27 dn.......439......0................558 (0.9%)
28 dn.......188......0................144 (0.2%)

I got a fairly good definition from the Steam forums and it seems the best solution might be to use Propper (as was mentioned back on page 1) (see http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2571136)

Has anyone used Propper before and could give me a hand. I've got it setup in VHE but Im a little unclear as to how exactly to work it. Am I supposed to create a new VMF file with only the model, compile that, and then add it to my Titanic VMF map? I tried compiling my Titanic map with the propper_model entities in but they all disappeared in HL2.

Wild Card said:
I got a fairly good definition from the Steam forums and it seems the best solution might be to use Propper (as was mentioned back on page 1) (see http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2571136)

Has anyone used Propper before and could give me a hand. I've got it setup in VHE but Im a little unclear as to how exactly to work it. Am I supposed to create a new VMF file with only the model, compile that, and then add it to my Titanic VMF map? I tried compiling my Titanic map with the propper_model entities in but they all disappeared in HL2.

Few easy to use .bat files here. (drag and drop .vmf on .bat for model conversion)
http://www.interlopers.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=33085

EDIT
You might find this useful to.
https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Propper

---

http://gamebanana.com/members/215600
https://www.youtube.com/c/gtamikesvideos
[img]http://www.17buddies.net/17b2/Btn/4/0/0/0/0/en/103257.png[/img]

Well I've been able to create my first Propper model after a few setbacks:

1) The files were blocked by Windows 7
2) They were in the Source2007/bin directory when they should have been in the Source2009/bin directory. Interestingly enough, VHE searched all the following for the file:

I:\Steam\steamapps\\sourcesdk\bin\source2009\bin\propper.exe
I:\Steam\steamapps\\sourcesdk\bin\source2009\propper.exe
C:\Windows\SysWOW64\propper.exe
C:\Windows\system\propper.exe
C:\Windows\propper.exe
I:\Steam\propper.exe
C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\Windows Live\propper.exe
C:\Program Files (x86)\Common Files\microsoft shared\Windows Live\propper.exe
C:\Windows\SysWOW64\propper.exe
C:\Windows\propper.exe
C:\Windows\SysWOW64\wbem\propper.exe
C:\Windows\SysWOW64\WindowsPowerShell\v1.0\propper.exe
C:\Program Files (x86)\Windows Live\Shared\propper.exe
C:\Program Files (x86)\ATI Technologies\ATI.ACE\Core-Static\propper.exe
C:\Program Files\Diskeeper Corporation\Diskeeper\propper.exe
C:\Program Files (x86)\Nmap\propper.exe

Now I've got my first model created, a staircase, called staircase_ThirdClassOpenSpace1. And its saved some files to the half-life2/hl2/models/props/ directory, but I dont see the point entity in VHE (even after restart)

Am I missing something?

[edit]
nm figured it out. Have to use propper_dynamic. Got it working now. So pre Propper is 7456 brushes...

Looks like the models are not solid. Am I supposed to put a clip brush over the staircases?