Which School Course Will Make The most Impact?

the recent discussion about graduating, got me to wondering..

i realize i am a bit out of touch with school subject matter, but i am hoping the basics are still being taught?

anywhos, which subject do you feel a person needs most to make it through life, or better, which subject impacts your life most.

To be honest, math and science go hand in hand, there really should be no seperation. The only difference is in Science you actually use your results

Also, if you're talking about High School science classes, they are rather meaningless unless they include calculus. The reason why is later on you'll have to re-learn everything with calculus, and if you're really going to use that field in your studies, you will need to greatly understand it all, meaning, you need calculus.

I think the most valuable class I had in high school was CAD or something as such. I don't care for history, so, I didn't give a monkey's ass about SS. English was boring and overly drawn out. They never really just tell you the rules until college, before that they let you suffer and tell you you're a morron ... well at least at the school district I was in ... anyway. Math was probably the most useful in your catagories, since it built a base that I would use later on.
Science, like I said, I had to relearn in college. The ideas are the same, but there's a reason why not many people understand Physics in High School, they're taught in a very confusing manner, basically because you can't be explained anything, since you don't know higher levels of math. But anyway.

I'd say Math (But in all actuality, it would be Art, CAD, or shop, since those are directly used in my day to day life).

being only a high school grad bud, i have to post what i know.. :sad:

and i would assume, that anyone taking say biology would vote science, and anyone taking accounting would vote math.. cad programs? i would have to say math, not art, but hey what do i know, the only cad program i have used is hammer, and its definitely math IMO.

if your goal is politics, i would assume social sciences, and if you plan on writing a book, then english..

i tried to post the basics, i was kinda hoping that you all would realize that with only 6 choices, you would need to group your decisions :biggrin:

Really, out of the subjects listed, English probbly had the most impact on me. I always found it easy, and apparently I'm a good writer, so I chose that one. I always preferred the original writing portions, rather than applying linguistics on an advert for paint thinner or something. Boring as hell as an academic subject though.

[EDIT]: Now that I think about it, school subjects never really influenced me in my interests, besides the creative writing portions of english classes. My life just seems to revolve video games and music (with writing as sort of a side-hobby), and I'm damned certain these interests didn't stem from school. Really makes you think on how relevant school is on someone's life.

Politics with Social Science?? Odd, through out my schooling Social Science is just History, like there is no difference. We never even talked about the politics behind anything that happened or current events, really.

But Orph, defining those groupings, I could say that technically EVERYTHING falls under math. CAD is not math, you don't use intensive calculations, after all you can just click to make a drawing.

If you think Hammer is a math program, you should use some actual math programs :smile: , They're funky.

I think that most subjects are muttled together now. Because in English classes, I basically read books, no reports or anything as such, but just read a lot. Last time I checked English is suppose to teach you the English language and how it works. But ... anyway.

Science becomes moot if you actually want to use it in a day to day situation, because there's a slim chance you'll do it properly with HS Sciences.

So, basically the only thing that allows you to build is math, as I said before.

Other things that you can DIRECTLY use from HS are: Art, Shop/CAD/Basic Engineering, and probably some entertainment areas, which would probably fall under art again.

Other then those, you need more schooling, or money to buy books, to learn them properly.

Also, most of what I'm learning in College wasn't even offered in HS. C, C++, Assembly ... come on, the tech support leader asked me for help all the time in HS.
I'm just saying in my situation, it was a big waste of time for the most part. I really wish I had better access online and such, maybe I'd have some maps released by now if I did

well crono, no matter how you break it down, if people vote accordingly, the numbers will be ok :smile:

and the word is "moot" not "mute" silly :wink:

hmm, is not "social science" and "social studies" the same course??

we learned politics in social studies..

/walks away mumbling about my own inadequacies

woopsie, thought I wrote moot ... damn autopilot typing.

Yeah, social science and social studies are the same course. I'm just saying when I went to public school it was just a history class.

I think we covered economy (Such as what is really means, nothing more) for like one day, but that was it.

Who cares about the numbers? I was just making discussion ... maybe I envoke that too often

Crono said:
woopsie, thought I wrote moot ... damn autopilot typing.

yes?... :rolleyes:

I would have to go with math by far, it's definitely helped me the most. My mind is bent towards vector and matrix math lately...

I would have to go with math by far, it's definitely helped me the most. My mind is bent towards vector and matrix math lately...

As it will be for the rest of your career and possibly life mwahahaha.

Wait ... my life potentially has the same out come :sad:

Well at least you guys are doing something. I have to go back to high school next year, and after that, I've no idea what Im doing.

Uh ... goto college

In all actuality no one really knows what they want to do (major career wise) until they goto college anymore.

I know so many people who have changed their major so many times, it's nuts. They're never going to finish at this rate.

I think I'm one of the only people I know who after three years still has the major they started out with. Oh well. Be a insert sterotypical canadian-official title here or something. :smile:

Or run from the authorities after you mutilate that poor salesman.

Being well rounded is most important in getting an education, as all the subjects relate to one another in the real world and completely ignoring some for others will certainly be a hinderance in later life.

Here in college I get to hear too many people tell me that my majors (Econ and Poly Sci) are useless and that I am a pussy or stupid for having dropped out of Computer Science and Engineering, but I'd much rather know the whole picture instead of a tiny fraction of human knowledge. I'm going to vote for social science because too many think they are worthless, and it's sad to see people limiting themselves in such a manner.

In all actuality, Computer Science is turning out to be much much more then purly programming and computers. Its also, in a sense, buisness, and communications, not to mention english (documentation) and speech. But I know what you mean Yak. It is annoying, especially when some of your family members are that way, it can be very detramental.

Kage_Prototype said:
Now that I think about it, school subjects never really influenced me in my interests[...]. My life just seems to revolve video games and music

Heh, I can totally relate to this

I chose math simply because if I had my choice this is the field I would like to learn more of.

Hehe, I'm the same, school is something you have to do, its had very little control over my interests or choice of career path. I guess its given me the sort of knowledge that is essential to get into my career path, but to be honest, most of the stuff I need to know has been learnt outside of school, with the exception of maths stuff. So I vote maths...even if I do hate it.

I don't know about your subjects in MadEnglishPeopleLand but I thought science subjects were the most important. Of course, it goes together with math, but I feel the average high-school course on math is far too involved to be of too much good to anybody. Like this guy says, you can't separate mathematics from physics, and our (my) system does exactly that. Once math stops making sense in the real world (I'm thinking about Complex plane integration here) there's no meaning in it. But somehow The Sciences still manage to retain a link to the real world.

Ok im going to make my first point for you guys, I goto school in canada (no they dont tell us howto build the perfect igloo) and i know alot of you are american schooled so things are different down there i think.

Anywho, here i think all subjects are important for getting through life right up until the end of grade 10.

In math 10, thats when they cover things like percentages, geometry (like finding the lenght of sides and such), finding variables in slighlty complex questions. Math 10 goes a little over the edge with what you "need" to know but its good to get some practice at some really weird real world equations. After that i think it should be electable for math. Unless your wanting to do real heavy amth stuff, the average person doenst really need it.

Science 10 i truly cant remember, i think it was pretty good thou, there is no sci 11, its when the sci's split off and im taking Earth Science which i s alugh and a half

English 10 was a good class, not much different then my sci 11 so i say keep english as an improtant class.

Social Studies 10 is good and here its manditory til you complete 11. Good class, learn about history and current events, tying them together. Stuff that you can relate with is good.

Ok so what did i choose? I choose other because the high school class that make sthe most impact to me is something way different then you would all expect. The class that has the most impact on me is........

...

..

PE!

Thats right, Gym class. Im going into the canadian army for helicopter pilot training, need ot be fit and besides being healthy is far more important to me then being some 300 pound or 90 pound brainiac.

As much as I love science, and need math as the essential tool for understanding physical phenomenon, I can't help but vote for English here because of this criteria:

which subject do you feel a person needs most to make it through life

Your English skills are your public persona. they determine to a large degree how other people perceive and react to you. It does not matter how good you are at math, how much you know about history, your wily your understanding of human nature in social science, or your genius in the physical sciences. If you cannot present yourself effectively, and communicate your ideas in an articulate manor, all else is worthless.

You should probably clarify that to language in general.

I supose... but Orph's catagory was english... and honestly, if you are a scientist, english in particular is very important.

However, "Which School Course Will Make The most Impact?" and "of the classes you currently take, which will you need most"

Were interpreted as what classes I took in HS were the most useful to me. And my English classes were lacking and far between, so.

But, if you rather mean, what do you depend on most in general and not in a specific classroom sense, then of course English, or whatever language you study. You wouldn't be able to communicate without it, obviously. However, most of my English classes past 3rd grade were garbage.
I think it's rather odd how the school systems are set up. I don't understand why Parent's and school board wont just grow some balls and make their kids actually learn, and then be allowed to take actually difficult, relavent classes. If our teaching methods were more efficient and relavent then you'd be able to learn Trig in middle school and statistics in High School, so on so forth. But they're not, so we're stuck with individuals who forget how to solve 2 = 5x. And I'm not being sarcastic. I think it's rather sad to be honest. I know there are adults who never thought going to high educational schools mattered, the only problem is, those same indiciduals still don't think they matter.

Our entire society is made up of social classes in which if you do your schoolwork well and you're interested in most subjects (in lower devision school) you're rediculed, and that's disturbing to say the least.

Not to mention, the only things I really remember from school before maybe my sophmore year in High school are being taught to be quiet, do things the way other people tell you to, and a varying degree of other, rather useless, lessons. Then when reaching HS, being talked to harshly by instructors for lack of self motivation and creativity. It's total bulls**t and It needs to change.

Sorry about my little rant there ... anyway, continue:

Well, I was home schooled, (hence my uber science geekdom) so I cannot speak for the state of public education from personal experience. I certainly consider it to be a load of dung, but that is merely from observation. I do not however think that the answer is to push young people harder at an earlier age. I did practically nothing in the way of formal education until I was almost 13!

I never said push harder. But, there are several things they could change. Such as, I don't remember doing one 'group activity' before 5th grade.

Also, I remember school being boring, you have to find some way to entertain and teach at the same time, it's better for everyone that way. I actually thank God that I wasn't home schooled taking that neither of my parents really have strong college backgrounds or specific skills. I mean, I mostly learned computer crap from my dad, but that was with in a 2 year period where I easily surpassed him, he asks me questions now.

My point was that, if the teachers were interested in actually teaching material and having students, of any age, learn, instead of training obediance (which is what my lower education practically was), then school would be more effective. Also, if the students, even at a young age, actually like and respect their teacher they are more likely to believe them and listen to what they have to say. that works even at a young age.

The other thing they need to change is to stop treating children as if they're morrons. I mean granted they don't have all the knowlede they need, but far too many people don't give children the credit they deserve. I know for a fact that most teachers think of their students as dumbfounded small people, whom need their hand held 24 hours a day and have no notion of what responsability is. Obviously there are kids like this, but it is not the majority.

I don't know, maybe I'm one of the only people who've had this experience through school, but I don't think that's the case based on the US's learning curve. I mean, It shouldn't be like "oh I remember my 2nd grade teacher was great" and you've blocked the rest because of their treatment of you. They should all be well developed teachers and they should be memorable as a good time in your life. The moment that elementary school was seen as a 'boot camp' for kids to 'shape them up', which most older individuals see it as (because of how they were treated durring those times), the worse off the following generations will be off. To be honest, school, learning, and challange should all be fun and entertaining, not frustrating and ridiculing ... but maybe that's just my take on it.

whats social science??? is it something like social skills?

economics, sociology, political science... I would classify history as a social science if it wasn't considered a humanity... there's probably some others

In my school we dont have economics,sociology etc.. we have to wait for college for them. :sad:

bah, if wnato t be a pilot if have to need ot learn german ore france both languas sucks

i realize my info is out dated, its been since before 1980 that i actually have seen the inside of a high-school classroom.

i made my list according to the classes i remember from back then.

but although i realize i put an "other" just in case something changed in the years since, i am curious, what is other? what were the votes/courses of the others?

of the umpteen jobs i have had since then, math has made the biggest impact, followed closely by reading.

for those of you looking at my current job title and thinking (this guy is so stupid he drive school busses) i chose to drive, i used to be a supervisor before that, the job was just too stressful.. before that i had a myriad of machines to operate, including a multi-million dollar computerized saw (which math most definitely helped)

the point is, you never know what you are destined to do, don't cheat yourself, by focusing on one branch/area.

/ 2cents

Tracer Bullet said:


Your English skills are your public persona. they determine to a large degree how other people perceive and react to you. It does not matter how good you are at math, how much you know about history, your wily your understanding of human nature in social science, or your genius in the physical sciences. If you cannot present yourself effectively, and communicate your ideas in an articulate manor, all else is worthless.

you know TB, although i agree that this is largely true, as i get older, i have determined that people whom judge people this way are much, much to shallow individuals to be taken seriously. i mean, my father-in-law finish 3rd grade, and thats it, but his real-life smarts are extraordinary, considering what part of our history he went through.

anyways, what i am saying is, my views of how people interact have altered somewhat as i have aged, and i have learned that judging people by their speech patterns, is very much like buying a book, based solely on its cover art, you are most definitely cheating yourself out of a potential friend, or associate if you do so.

i heard/read once, Albert Einstein cussed like a sailor, and i am willing to bet that he is by far smarter than the average snarkpitter, but were he alive today, most would consider him dumb or boorish, if his speech were the deciding factor.

as much as people today base their life on this outlook, i find them lacking when all the pro's and con's are tallied, you should never base someones intelligence on how they put sentences together :/

Crono said:
However, "Which School Course Will Make The most Impact?" and "of the classes you currently take, which will you need most"

Were interpreted as what classes I took in HS were the most useful to me. And my English classes were lacking and far between, so.

But, if you rather mean, what do you depend on most in general and not in a specific classroom sense, then of course English, or whatever language you study. You wouldn't be able to communicate without it, obviously. However, most of my English classes past 3rd grade were garbage.
I think it's rather odd how the school systems are set up. I don't understand why Parent's and school board wont just grow some balls and make their kids actually learn, and then be allowed to take actually difficult, relavent classes. If our teaching methods were more efficient and relavent then you'd be able to learn Trig in middle school and statistics in High School, so on so forth. But they're not, so we're stuck with individuals who forget how to solve 2 = 5x. And I'm not being sarcastic. I think it's rather sad to be honest. I know there are adults who never thought going to high educational schools mattered, the only problem is, those same indiciduals still don't think they matter.

Our entire society is made up of social classes in which if you do your schoolwork well and you're interested in most subjects (in lower devision school) you're rediculed, and that's disturbing to say the least.

Not to mention, the only things I really remember from school before maybe my sophmore year in High school are being taught to be quiet, do things the way other people tell you to, and a varying degree of other, rather useless, lessons. Then when reaching HS, being talked to harshly by instructors for lack of self motivation and creativity. It's total bulls**t and It needs to change.

Sorry about my little rant there ... anyway, continue:

Rant indeed, flawed also. You can't just teach people trig or whatever at a set age - the reason education is going down the pan is because the authorities (not the teachers) adopt a "one size fits all" policy. It doesnt work, science has proved people have different strengths and weaknesses, and different backgrounds (social/economic) so it is naive and unfair on pupils to assume they should be at a certain level at a certain age.

Setting targets destroys peoples enjoyment and understanding of school altogether.

Disclaimer: nor do I support invidualist teaching, to thwart an obvious comeback by anyone :razz:

Well, quite obviously, you missed my point, Gwil.

Instructors/Parents/Authroities, tend to hold children back from certain subjects. I'm saying this from experience. All I'm saying is that the teaching method is flawed, because people are obviously not remembering things they learned prior to certain levels of education. That's it. I at no point said that children MUST learn advanced mathmatics at a younge age, I said that if teaching styles were different then it would be POSSIBLE to get an education faster and more effectivly. I also, never said that everyone should be taught this way, so I think you're making a crap load of assumptions there.

People will not learn mathematics at age x, or if teaching methods were better or different they STILL WOULD NOT.

not everyone has a scientifically/mathematically geared brain, or an english and art geared mind - everyone develops at different rates - there are far too many variables for the ideas of target setting for all, or standardising education to make measures of people. im afraid the current educational systems around the world dont work, but nor will your suggestions.

I do not teach myself, but having worked to help out in schools (my parents are teachers, one of my sisters is and my other sister is studying early education) and being fairly well versed on the ins and outs of curriculums and classes, you learn to accept there is no perfect solution - and testing, targetting and measuring is a surefire way to ruin schooling altogether.

Everyone's different; education just isn't for some people, and for others they'll follow a career based on what they liked in school. I say that until we can implant information directly into people's brains, the 'normal' teaching is perfectly fine for most people, as we've done pretty well with it over the last few hundred years.

Again, you missed the point, Gwil.

I didn't say that school was to be "testing, targetting and measuring". I think you're putting words in my mouth. I never said that the curriculum should be overly advanced. I just said that teaching methods are terrible at the moment and when I was in lower grades school. THATS IT!
The suggestions I made were things that would have helped me when I was in school. There was absolutly no motivation to learn any of this s**t when I was younger, the only explination you get it "because". It's THAT kind of attitude and teaching method that I'm saying needs to change. If the teaching methods were turned into a cooperative situation, there would be less room of confusion. If you envolve, a child for isntance, enough, chances are they would care, even a little bit. Which is saying more then for current teaching situations.

This is all I was saying. I don't understand why you're trying to make me say that I think kids should be tought a rigourus curriculum and such, I never said that. I just notioned on the amount of ground that can be covered earlier on, that's all.

Exactly. Being empowered with intelligence can drive people to a decision that the world would be better if everyone was learned in a vast plethora of subjects.. It wouldnt.

Education is far from the route to success or satisfaction, and as Leprous says it is not for all - tradespeople in the UK (because of Mr Blair and other Governments mass Universitification programs) npw can command much higher wages with nothing more than an "O" level in woodwork.

Nothing will change, as there isn't really a better system than the ones in place today - and it is naive to assume everyone can be taught and is willing to learn if things are changed, because this is the real world - and some people just arent interested in the classroom from the day they join us on Earth.

Crono said:
Again, you missed the point, Gwil.

I didn't say that school was to be "testing, targetting and measuring". I think you're putting words in my mouth. I never said that the curriculum should be overly advanced. I just said that teaching methods are terrible at the moment and when I was in lower grades school. THATS IT!
The suggestions I made were things that would have helped me when I was in school. There was absolutly no motivation to learn any of this s**t when I was younger, the only explination you get it "because". It's THAT kind of attitude and teaching method that I'm saying needs to change. If the teaching methods were turned into a cooperative situation, there would be less room of confusion. If you envolve, a child for isntance, enough, chances are they would care, even a little bit. Which is saying more then for current teaching situations.

This is all I was saying. I don't understand why you're trying to make me say that I think kids should be tought a rigourus curriculum and such, I never said that. I just notioned on the amount of ground that can be covered earlier on, that's all.

Teaching methods are fine, blame your Government and the Education department. There are bad teachers, and there are good - but never blame them all as one entity, or their methods.

I didn't say anything about a rigorous curriculum, i'm saying its unfair, unwise and unhealthy for CHILDREN to be learning advanced mathematics/english/science/any other subject. Research consistently prove that early years children learn better through play rather than direct education, and play cannot be mixed with higher standards. It's a recipe for disaffection and apathy towards schools if you attemped a program or trial along these lines.

You seem to base a lot of your own assumptions about teaching methods and related quarms on your own school days. I was under the impression you were at University now, so there cannot be much gone wrong with your schooling. There is much dreaming and great ideas to be made on the subject of education/state education, and the fact of the matter is most of them are completely redundant from the outset.

its unfair, unwise and unhealthy for CHILDREN to be learning advanced mathematics/english/science/any other subject. Research consistently prove that early years children learn better through play rather than direct education, and play cannot be mixed with higher standards.

See, you totally missed what I was saying, literally.
I didn't say that they should be 'directly educated' in any higher level subject. I'm also, NOT talking about 5-7 year olds, in general.

I also, never even mentioned on how they would learn. I never said it would be a lecture, so you are assuming that I am indeed saying that, which I'm not.

I know they learn better by playing and interaction. That was my point, my schooling WASN'T like that.

And I'm not going to blame the government or the schools, because they do not monitor individual teachers behaivor.

Maybe I just got nothing but bad teachers, but it seems to be there should be a more efficient way of getting those teachers straightened up, or fired. Because it doesn't work at the moment.

They are dicks simply because you are dicks to them. And possibly thus because they were once one, too :razz:

I do see what you are saying Crono, I am presenting you with reality and the workings of state education in any country.

"but instructors are dicks most of the time" - most of the time. not all, most. and this is coming from the mouths of scholars, not well known for their praise of teachers, education or school in general.

"who have no care whatsoever about their students, no matter the age." Bad chefs exist, bad drivers exist, bad barmen exist.. every profession has it's share of incompetence, i'm thinking that if things were really as bad as you made them out to be then the USA would be in a far worse state than it is at the moment.

Education works fine as it is, if we were all super intelligent who would fry the burgers, and if we were all drooling zombies who would run society? A happy medium has been hit and works just about fine in most places.

i'm thinking that if things were really as bad as you made them out to be then the USA would be in a far worse state than it is at the moment.

Education works fine as it is, if we were all super intelligent who would fry the burgers, and if we were all drooling zombies who would run society? A happy medium has been hit and works just about fine in most places.

Well, Gwil, they're not that great, to be honest.

My opinions don't stem just to lower grades, however. It goes for almost any level. The whole point is that, as things are now, the majority of student's aren't ready for their next level in education. I think that exposing someone to something earlier on, not nessesarily telling them the inner workings, but getting them framilure, with whatever it may be, is better then leaving them in the dust upon entering the next level.

I don't know. Maybe I was in school at the worst possible time. The early to mid 80s. The time when 'ridilen' solved all your problems with pesky kids. At least that was the view here, not to mention the recent Hostage situation that was less then a decade before hand. I know other people who had the same experience and memories of schooling as I do. And they're not good ones. I know that things still go on like this, and it doesn't make sense. Would you doom a child to be a McDonalds cook from the age of 5 or 6?

Anyway, robots can flip burgers

If films are to be believed robots can also TAKE OVER THE WORLD! :biggrin:

Seriously though, I agree on the point about education should be raising people out of poverty and "dead end" lives (but then that relates a thousand other social issues) - but the way it stands is it how it works, and how the authorities would like it to work.

Even if we were to implement schemes in our respective education systems (the UK one is in an extremely shocking state currently) to raise standards, they are going to be limited by a thousand other factors - parenting, background, economy, culture - all relative to the student, and more often than not the area that they live in. Unfortunately we've gone too far in the wrong direction to make massive impact on society and it's processes now without massive funding or outright revolution.

Reality bites :sad:

Yeah, it does.

I suppose you did see my point after all
But were looking at it from a different angle. I just think it's unfair at the moment, and actually changing small pieces of curriculum would greatly help. But, it does come down to those factors, sadly. However, you'd think if a parent cared about their childs wellfare enough that they'd be willing to help them with the curriculum out of school as well. I would anyway.

And goddammit, robots can't take over the world unless a person was either a) controlling them or b) had programmed them to kill humans. A robot would NEVER come to the condlusion to kill humans unless the idea was programmed in.

I have arguments like this with friends, and as I learn more and more on how a computer system works you begin to realize how ficticious this event is. However, you could very well create a machine to cook food. And teaching a robot to flip a burger at a certain point is much easier then teaching it to kill humans and take over earth, since it would then need to learn.

I think the things they're working on now, is programming emotion. Since choice, thought, and emotion are all linked. They found that the program will make choices based on an algorithm and no based on the curcumstances ... or something like that. I'm not at the programming AI level yet, so I'm not sure.

I agree with most things on here TBH, it's just im a cynical bastard and take home my rant slant more often than not ^_^

And if you hadn't already guessed by my vast volume of vocab spread across these fine forums, I think English is the most important subject (amalgamated English that is, Lit/Lang/Media etc..)

Yeah, English is incredibly important.

But, sadly, they try to teach certain legistics too early on. I think you should learn a bit more math (since lower math is much easier then writing properly) then learning the interworkings of sentence structure.

I mean to be honest, the only way I learned how to really structure my sentences properly, proof read or not, was in college. The concept of the pieces of a sentence were discussed early on in my education and I don't even remember them, really. Then about 8 years later, I was expected to regurgitate them for the instructors pleasure.

I just think that certain things in lower level courses need to be sped up, others slowed down, and above all, make sure the student understands what the hell you're talking about.

I always felt it odd that in lower grades of school, I never got a pre-test. It was just "BAM, test time". And I'd totally screw up. And then the teacher, or whoever, would basically form an opinion of my intelligence based on my score, which is amazingly unfair. I'm not saying life is fair, but, to someone under the age of 12 to 15, You don't fully understand these concepts and you can't understand why you were singled out and so on.

It really just needs to become fair and balanced. If anywhere, in lower grades.

Also, I wish that my lower schooling had better art/media/english programs. I remember art, even though it was mandatory, was bulls**t. The teacher didn't even know the standard technique for drawing a figure (I'm talking about 6-8th grade, about 11 to 13) So, these idea's you'd fully understand and such. But most of the time, entertainment is looked down upon (Movies, Games, comics, etc.) and I don't understand why.

The saddest thing is theres not a lot we here in the UK can do about it - I don't know if it's the same in the US but problems with the education system are promised improvements by politicians, but just get banded between different governments.

I personally would introduce some kind of monitoring system, whereby pupils are introduced to standard classes with say ability tiers built in. Then when you graduate, or leave with GCSE's over here you had already chosen subjects based on an individual learning scheme, finding the best subjects for you... a lot more fleshed out obviously but thats my general drift..

Blah, dream world again :razz:

We learn quite a lot of maths over here in the early years, but we just test and squeeze the life out of school so young with endless results and grades and league tables.. urgh.. so it doesn't really do the good it should.

I see.

The only difference here, besides the forgotten promises of politicians, is that, the people who REALLY control what happens in schools is the school board, not the government. The school board is made up of citicens, politicians, and other individuals. There's also 'pta's' which are for each individual schools, and people usually run for board leader and such from those groups. However, this is where the problem lies. The individuals who are on the board usually do not really know what needs to be done in the classrooms to help the learning factor, since whenever they sit in on classes, the teachers practically bribe students to be on their best behavior so they don't get in hot water.

I think something that would basically help here is the mind set of the teachers and the board members. First off, they don't give children enough credit. They automatically think they're slow and stupid and if they don't understand something immediatly that they have a learning disorder, it makes absolutly no sense. It would help if most people on school boards were college educated. but sadly they aren't. (no offense to people whom are not college educated, but, lets face it, you learn a s**t load of stuff in college, such as major issues in your community and so on). I'm just saying it puts them at a disadvantage also in the fact that, most college majors are now geared toward critical thinking as well as basic knowledge. You need to be able to analyze something and becoming as little involved as you can. And what tends to happen on these boards is that, one parents will have a driving force in the group and they'll get only the actions that their child presents them with through, it's very weird, to be honest. We just need, as you said, Gwil, better monitoring and better control. Also, school shouldn't be a place in which you learn how to be quiet. It should be a place where you learn how to do things. I think if instructors and parents alike looked at it this way, school wouldn't be hell for the majority of children, because, it really is. Its basically a day care where you learn sometimes, when talking about lower grades.

A couple years ago for a class I was taking, we had to go out in the community and do some volunteer work and write a paper on it and such.
And so my group went to a elementary school (Kindergarden through 5th grade, or 5 years old - 10 years old).
We went into a 1st grade class. And, dude, these kids are smart. I basically had to help them read a book and sound out vowels and stuff like that. However, I found that the way their teacher was teaching them was rather ... inneffective. She used special rules that were only in that class room (such as comparing a sound to an animal of somesort). While this may work durring that class, when they go on to another teacher, they're going to be at a disadvantage since they learned a non-existant standard.

But anyway. I found that these kids were very perceptive to my tone of voice, the way I sounded things out, and they were rather interested in the subject. And when they got comfortable, they became rather playful, in a speech sense. All I had to do was ask them to quiet down so we could finish the book.

There was one kid, I think his name was Alex, and he was sort of acting out, just a tad, but he was still following along. And when we got to that point, the teacher came over and basically yelled at him when he was doing nothing wrong. I exclaimed to her that I had it under control, and she said something to the effect of "not with him". This is the sort of s**t I'm talking about. Maybe he's just hyper, so what? He was still learning the material, and doing a rather good job at it too.

I also found that the children were more perceptive to my speech then the instructors. Since I didn't talk down to them or make weird ass sounds to envoke certain reactions in them. I also at no point gave them the answers. When the teacher came over to 'check on me' she basically told them what all the answers were. And I could see the kids suddenly NOT care about what they were doing. The factor of confusion and wanting to solve the dillemma was keeping them 'captivated'.
I'm not saying this woman is a bad teacher, but I see this all the time, I also remember crap like this from when I was going to school. It makes you feel like a damn morron when someone inturupts your line of thought and rationalazation process and tells you the answer, especially when you didn't want them to. And I think in this situation that is valid, because when you first learn something, really, the best way to learn it is to struggle with it. Now, by that I don't mean suffer, I mean that they should jump in, try it out, and ask questions. All the kids I had a chance to work with did all of these things without a que from me, while when I saw the instructor work with them, they didn't get a chance to ask questions because she wouldn't stop talking, in her babified manner. I don't understand why certain teachers think little kids need to be talked to in that way, I really doubt that their family members speak to them that way in a general situation, so why would you when you want them to learn? Part of the problem is they don't feel comfortable.

Anyway, bah. It's not like I can do anything about any of this, so, what's the point?

[EDIT]
Wow, sorry about the length of the post ... if you read through it all that is.
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