lamda

Yeah, the pictures fit together perfectly..

And look at the colors at that sign, god damn :biggrin:

I'm like, so ph0t0gr4f0r.

Your avatar scares me.

...

...

</irony>

could you force yourself to change your sexuality?

Imagine if most of us are homosexuals and the heterosexuals are the minorities (please don't point out the biological paradox; it's a theoretical arguement), how would the anti-gay people feel then (presumably they are heterosexuals)?

In turn, they would be the ones who are discriminated against and labeled "sinners". To me, it's just as wrong as racism, except being a racist is really not socially acceptable nowadays.

Just wait twenty years, then all you bigots would be damned as what you really are--bigots.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting satchmo</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>

Just wait twenty years, then all you bigots would be damned as what you really are--bigots.

</DIV></DIV>

Careful how you brand us "bigots". we are for the most part not willing to wait 20 years and would settle for "asshole" by throttling people who call us names.

This bigot, would be in the forefront, and doing a s**t load of throttling to be sure :/

throttling people who call us names

Nah, that job is taken. Those Klans members would be glad to accomplish any mob justice for you.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting satchmo</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quote:</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>throttling people who call us names </DIV></DIV>

Nah, that job is taken. Those Klans members would be glad to accomplish any mob justice for you.

</DIV></DIV>

yeah well, the only thing worse than a homophobe, is a homophobe-phobe..

think on that a while.. now this bigots off to bed, before he goes and says something he regrets.. and you know me, i never regret anything i say so you can rest assured... it would be a whopper.

nite/nite all.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting satchmo</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>
Just wait twenty years, then all you bigots would be damned as what you really are--bigots.

</DIV></DIV>

In 20 years everything will be so "Politically Correct," that if you claim that someone is a 'bigot' they will instanly be tried by a number of methods that can be read in the book: "The Salem Witch Trials."

Man, Political correctness sucks dog bollocks. It's not just PC though, it's this whole thing where NOTHING IS WRONG with anyone anymore, we just gotta accept them as they are.

Satchmo, in your job you came across a fat boy and told his parents that he shouldn'e be so fat, and they became defensive and completely irrational when they told you that it was none of your business and that he is just fine.

That is what you sound like now, only a slightly milder version. Yes, Racism is wrong, but i have a RIGHt not to like other races (i DO like other races), just like i have a RIGHT to think that homosexuality is wrong. (i DO think its wrong)

It's not bigotry, it's morals and values. Which is something America forgot a LONG time ago.

so does this band of bigots get to include the gays that think hetro sex is abhorrent? if it doesn't, i want to know why not. what have you got against them that would have them excluded? or are you a different kind of bigot?

Main Entry: big?ot
Pronunciation: 'bi-g&t
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French, hypocrite, bigot
: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices

• big?ot?ed -g&-t&d adjective
• big?ot?ed?ly adverb

Main Entry: ob?sti?nate
Pronunciation: '?b-st&-n&t
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin obstinatus, past participle of obstinare to be resolved, from ob- in the way + -stinare (akin to stare to stand)
1 : perversely adhering to an opinion, purpose, or course in spite of reason, arguments, or persuasion
2 : not easily subdued, remedied, or removed <obstinate fever>

• ob?sti?nate?ly adverb
• ob?sti?nate?ness noun

Main Entry: in?tol?er?ant
Pronunciation: -r&nt
Function: adjective
1 : unable or unwilling to endure
2 a : unwilling to grant equal freedom of expression especially in religious matters b : unwilling to grant or share social, political, or professional rights : BIGOTED

• in?tol?er?ant?ly adverb
• in?tol?er?ant?ness noun

synonyms OBSTINATE, DOGGED, STUBBORN, PERTINACIOUS, MULISH mean fixed and unyielding in course or purpose. OBSTINATE implies usually an unreasonable persistence <an obstinate proponent of conspiracy theories>. DOGGED suggests an admirable often tenacious and unwavering persistence . STUBBORN implies sturdiness in resisting change which may or may not be admirable <a person too stubborn to admit error>. PERTINACIOUS suggests an annoying or irksome persistence <a pertinacious salesclerk refusing to take no for an answer>. MULISH implies a thoroughly unreasonable obstinacy <a mulish determination to have his own way>.

2 entries found for prejudice.
To select an entry, click on it.
prejudice[1,noun]prejudice[2,transitive verb]

Main Entry: 1prej?u?dice
Pronunciation: 'pre-j&-d&s
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French, from Latin praejudicium previous judgment, damage, from prae- + judicium judgment -- more at JUDICIAL
1 : injury or damage resulting from some judgment or action of another in disregard of one's rights; especially : detriment to one's legal rights or claims
2 a (1) : preconceived judgment or opinion (2) : an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge b : an instance of such judgment or opinion c : an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics
synonym see PREDILECTION

I see nothing contained within this that applies to this discussion and am of the opinion that it was only interjected to be hateful and/or mean. its insertion only disrupted the otherwise mature flow of the thread. it assumes that they are correct and we are wrong. this discussion has not proven one or the other is correct. in fact, i think its rather bigoted to not like millions of people whom find homosexuality wrong.

shrugs

perhaps its only me though.

I have no problem with gays. I have no problem with people who
have a moral (more to the point, religouis) problems with homosexuals.

If a person dosn't like gays, if a person hates gays, that is their
choice and their personal opinion. It is everyone's right to have
their own views. The problem is that people take their veiws and
try to turn them into policie... Gay marrige, what is so wrong with
letting two people get married and hold marrige status under the
government? Key word: government. If a chruch dosn't accept
the gay way of life, I'm sure they can turn them down. But the
government shouldn't turn any citizen away. It is wrong to draw a
line and say "you can not have the same rights as these people becuase
of your life style" and that is what is being said.

A marrige dosn't have to be religious at all, a judge can wed two
people, why should we draw a distinction between gay and strait?
How is that fair, or just?

People should keep their views on a personal level, we should respect
the views of a racist or homophobe just as they should respect the
views of a homosexual. As should they respect the 'god given'
rights of all people, not to mention the rights issued to all citizens.

there is one escapable truth to all this. if people do something wrong long enough, it becomes not wrong.

think on that a while.

now, if gays are permitted to marry, it will ostensibly admit that homosexuality is no longer wrong, and the government seems unwilling to take that step. it is my opinion that the issue has not been proven yet, so the stance of not permitting gay marriage is justified.

assuming now that homosexuality is a born trait and not a taught one as i believe, people are born with abhorrent traits all the time and are taught to overcome them. or they are supposed to be.

i think that if we are gonna talk about events that may occur 20 years from now, lets talk about the cure that they will eventually create for this condition. most gay people claim that they are born this way, if so, its got to be as curable as any other birth defect. if for no other reason that its prevent-ability by determining at what stage a male fails to become fully male (and vice versa for females)

if its environmentally driven as i so firmly believe, then perhaps in 20 years it wont be so vogue to be a fag anymore.. that sounds harsh, but its essentially how it is. it OK to be GAY.. and that is the basic reason its not OK..

you know, there's plenty of 'hetrosexual activities' that i find equally disturbing, so i suppose i must be really f**ked up.

on a side note of fickle flaming, only a fool could come to the conclusion that i'm a bigot by what i've said here. but then again, docs are world famous for knowing better, therefor negating the need to actually listen to what anyone else is saying.

people are born with abhorrent traits all the time and are taught to overcome them. or they are supposed to be.

For example, people who are born of African descent are suppose to
overcome racial hatred. So we shouldn't really blame those people
who are racist, we should just blame the blacks who cannot act like
white people.

I cannot understand why people believe that homosexuals prefer to
choose their sexual orientation. Do you have any idea how much
pain and suffering they have to go through because of it? Does
anyone choose to be born with no legs? Does anyone prefer to be
born with blindness or mental retardation?

I don't have problem with people holding their views, but they're the
ones who are preventing homosexuals from having civil and social
rights--i.e. not being able to marry.

If you guys keep your views to yourself and don't stand in the ways of
others, I have no issue against you. But that's obviously not the
case. You are depriving these people their natural born rights,
in my opinion.

I just got my marriage license yesterday morning, and no one gave me
any hassle because I am straight. Can you imagine if you're gay?

If homosexuality is taught, not born, then why does it go across
culture and time (it's reported in ancient China and ancient
Greece). It has been there for thousands of years, and in any
continent wherever there are human beings. Do you still believe
it's a learned behavior?

That's okay. Time will enlighten you guys. I'll save my gloating for the future.

racism is form of prejudiced, prejudism is not racism.. you are comparing apples to oranges satch.

bottomline on this, as far as i am concerned.. the topic is moot now, and i refuse to discuss it further for the simple fact that some people are even more close minded about pro-homo, than anyone who ever lived is about anti-homo.

people like you satch are just to convinced that you are correct and cannot see the forest for the trees. people may not chose to be born homosexual, but they damned sure chose to act on the animal urges they have when they find out. i get so tired of people telling me that they cannot help themselves.. the same tired excuse is used for post partum, pedophilia,alcoholism, and a whole s**tload of other mental illnesses. denial is an evil thing, and anyone whom thinks that homosexuality does not originate in the brain is a fool. and since it does originate from that location, and it is a defect, it can be aligned with all those other illnesses without biased, or prejudiced intent.

i still firmly believe it is a taught thing, i will never waver from that viewpoint, but assuming i am mistaken and it is a born trait, it has got to be FIXABLE!.. i assume that someone in the world believes that and that someday some one will discover exactly where the event occurs and fixes it in the womb.

being pro-homo is not a bad thing, being anal about it is. and people whom go to the other end of the spectrum in their support are just as wrong as the people you say you dislike..

all i can say is, "welcome to my world, cause now YOU ARE THE BAD GUY TOO!"

it has got to be FIXABLE!

Michael Jackson was born black, and he sure tried to fix this by submitting himself to a multitude of cosmetic surgeries.

Why do we have to "fix" homosexuals? Being an alcoholic and a pedophile hurt
other people. When was the last time you were hurt by a homosexual?
Have they ever infringed on your lifestyle because of their choice? Why
do you hate them so?

It's common human decency to respect other people's lifestyle. I
am not asking you to change your mind, but I am simply asking you to
accept other people's choices. You don't have to become a
homosexual to support their freedom of choice. I have an open
mind, that's why I allow myself to see everyone as equal.
Apparently, you think they have a diseased mind and need to have
drastic medical intervention simply because they think differently from
you.

And if I become a bad guy being anal about supporting human rights, so
be it. The world is a cruel place, and someone has to stand up to
do the right thing, even if it's unpopular. I see myself as an
abolitionist. They sure weren't very popular at the turn of the
century.

thus the saga ends..

/ me bows out, you cannot converse with such closed minds.

/Me tactfully avoids commenting.
See, I am not always a prick

You see, who's the prick?

sighs

if i avoid a thread i am passionate about, i feel discriminated against. If i comment within a thread i am passionate about, but happen to be in the minority, i feel discriminated against.

so lets see here, am i the prick because i opted to express myself, in spite of it being in a poor light, or am i a prick because i could have kept my ill received opinions to myself?

sometimes i kick myself in the ass for not opting to just shut up. you cannot argue with close minded people and i am stupid enough to never learn that sad fact.

so i guess, its me who is the prick. i should have told you what you wanted to hear.

just once i would like to have a discussion where the other side can see both view points as clearly as i do :/

Orph, how can you say that the government should not allow gays to mary
becuase homosexaulity is wrong when there are people on the other side
of the issue who think homosexuality is right.

Why should the government take your fundimental side, when the
government should be blind to religious and fundimental ideals.
The bottom line in my mind is that the government should allow the same
rights to anyone and everyone.

This is something that if going to happen. homosexuality
wont go away, its been around since sexuality has been around.
Restricting the rights of gays wont "fix" them.

What if it dose turn out that there is an enzym in the brain that
triggers homosexuality? If 'they' come out with a drug to stop
the production of that emzym you arn't fixing anything, your changing
the person for their natural state (some would say as god made them).

If it turns out that a person's enviroment 'turns' them gay, that just
proves that humans have the capasity to be homosexual. As we have
the capsity to kill, make love, do drugs, etc. As long as one
person's veiws or life style dosn't hurt anyone, no one should have the
right to tell them its wrong and they cant do it.

Veiwing homosexuality as evil is your choise, and your choise should be
respected. wanting to change other people to fit into your views
of good and evil, that isn't respectable.

DrGlass said:
Orph, how can you say that the government should not allow gays to mary becuase homosexaulity is wrong when there are people on the other side of the issue who think homosexuality is right.

tell me straight up, have you ever met anyone who said homosexuality was right? i mean said exactly those words. "homosexuality is right"

i have met people who accept it, i have met people who tolerate it, i have met people whom do not care one way or another to have an opinion, but i have never ever met anyone who said its "right"

given that it is accepted by a vast percentage does not make it right. furthermore, given that it is unaccepted by an even larger majority does not necessarily make it wrong either. my point in all this is, just because it is not wrong to some, does not make it right by any definition of the word "right"

i can tell you this honestly, homosexuality is for the most part ONLY tolerated.. no one anywhere in the world looks at their new born children and hopes they are gay, not even gay parents.

people whom think that they are accepted are in denial about their true position in the world.. people weigh the options and decide "what should i do about it" ... in a perfect setting, the person decides that they love, or care for the person more than they are offended by them and the acceptance comes in where they accept their decision to tolerate the action/situation.

in a less perfect situation, the person decides that the pro's and con's balance out and they keep associating with the gay person.

in a situation like mine, if my loved one decides its time to be gay, they are on their own.. period. no discussing it, now nothing. they know in advance, that their decision did not involve me when they made it, it should not involve me afterward either. this may not prevent the situation from occurring, but then again it may.

bottom line, i want you to tell me exactly, you heard the words, "its right"

BTW, you really,really need a spell checker. :razz:

i didn't say it was right. i didn't say it was wrong. but i still got branded a bigot.

but i still got branded a bigot

I should've quoted back then. I wasn't calling you a bigot. I did read your post carefully, and you're rather reasonable.

fishy said:
i didn't say it was right. i didn't say it was wrong. but i still got branded a bigot.

uhh, was that your quote that got so... assaulted?

perhaps i should have waited for you to defend it.. i seem to have blown it completely.

/me apologizes for assuming i could. :sad:

i get the impression that i am somewhere between hell and a bad place right now :/

I once got told by a teacher that everyone is racist because we subliminally judge people differently based on their race - i.e., if we saw two huge black guys walking behind us, we'd be more inclined to cross the street than if they were white. Unfortunately, the example is, in many cases, true, but the conclusion, I told her, is bulls**t - prejudice is making the concious decision to think worse of someone based on the way they've chosen to live their lives, unless that way seriously interferes with your own.

The point? - no, I don't feel "rosy" inside to see homosexuals displaying their affections. Simply because I was raised to think homosexuality is evil, I, against logic, have a knee-jerk averse reaction to the sight. But that's not prejudice, because I can't help that I feel that way; it would be prejudiced were I unable to see past it and recognize that homosexuals, as people, have just as much a right to love someone of their own gender as I do the opposite; and, as with every person, to be free of my and society's judgement of their lives so long as they aren't really hurting anybody. And to that same extent, Orph, you are more than welcome to hold whatever opinions you damn well please.

Nobody says you have to love homosexuality. I will say that it is not good to forget human compassion for anyone, even your enemies, whoever they may be. I will say that if you are willing to claim that you have the right to believe and live the way you like without explanation, then homosexuals, too, have that right.

Cassius said:
Nobody says you have to love homosexuality. I will say that it is not good to forget human compassion for anyone, even your enemies, whoever they may be. I will say that if you are willing to claim that you have the right to believe and live the way you like without explanation, then homosexuals, too, have that right.

my compassions run deeper than you seem to imagine. more than once i have proclaimed my dislike for homosexuality, but never once have i claimed to hate gay people.

and the crux of the matter is this, the entire thread i have been repeatedly asked to explain myself. thats a concept i just cannot fathom. i totally disagree with satches views, violently so, but never once did i even hint that he had to explain those views. they are his and i wouldn't dream of denying him them.

time and again i have been told that gays have rights, but it never seems to dawn upon anyone that in the same breath they are also saying i do not.

these discussions always end the same.. no one learns from them.. i fully expect new members like satch to screw the pooch, but not old timers like you.. you have been involved in virtually every conversation about gays since we have been here. have you not figured me out yet? i truly didn't think you that slow. :sad:

we have a gay member here.. a valued member. i do not think of him as gay. he may find that offensive, or he may be relieved, i dunno.. i would never ask. but i do care if/when i upset him in these topics.. i curb my words accordingly.. if i wrote exactly how i felt, no one would be able to read it without some strong emotions. tact.. i do have it and use it as long as possible. as long as you guys allow me to.

the bigot comment, it negated all thoughts of tact.. it was tasteless, and evil to say such a thing, especially when it really did not apply in this case.

the moment it was posted, all bets were off.

people who take cheap shots like that do not belong in a serious conversation.

/ rant

I will say that if you are willing to claim that
you have the right to believe and live the way you like without
explanation, then homosexuals, too, have that right.

Agreed.

Orph, I cant say I have ever been told by anyone that homosexuality is
right. I only assume that a homosexual would view their choise in
life as 'right'. Really that is besides the point, I only ment to
say that there are people for and against homosexuals.

forgive my poor spelling, I blame dyslexia.

I've had occasion to argue with every regular.

Cassius said:
I've had occasion to argue with every regular.

you and i have locked horns a time or two, but can you say that we have not become if not better friends, we have at least reached an understanding of companionism?

anyways, be it known, i am fully cognizant that my views are not popular.. but please stop asking me to explain.. its very bad, even worse than bigotry.

even if you disagree with that, at least show me the same respect that i show others. when i ask "why", then you may ask as well.

Nickelplate - in response to your post in the derailed thread - have you ever taken a biology class?

So, what's actually wrong with being homosexual then, given that it doesn't hurt anyone and we live in a (supposedly) free world?

Leperous said:
So, what's actually wrong with being homosexual then, given that it doesn't hurt anyone and we live in a (supposedly) free world?

even after all the time i have been here, i still cannot fathom some of you. i sit here and wonder exactly how you survive real life conversations. only small children ask "why" all the time. can you people not have a discussion without asking someone else to explain, why?

for instance, lep, you should give your opinion on whats right about gays, its extremely rude to put someone else under the pressure of center stage and asking them to explain whats wrong with gays.. think about it a moment, ANYTHING they could possibly say would be instantly attacked. if you do not believe that, go back a few pages, some Idot already mentioned "bigotry" :sad:

people, i am asking you one last time to desist asking "why" .. its juvenile, and its harmful to the person stupid enough to answer. just give your viewpoint, THEN its all in your court, if you say something stupid, it wasn't because another ASKED YOU TO!

I've already given my opinion, on page 3.

And last time I checked, asking "why" about what people think/believe isn't "juvenile" or "harmful" at all- I only ever get that response from people who are unable to say either "I just don't know" or "I have no rational reason"! I'm not interested in attacking you Orph; I agree with Cassius etc. on saying that everyone's entitled to their beliefs, pro or anti, and I'm quite interested to know why they think these things. I have no problem with you being anti (I used to be too) as long as you're not firebombing people's houses or causing anyone any serious grief.

then i resend my comment. as you know, i am not ashamed, nor hesitant to voice my views.

my apologies, but it is my experience that people do not like to be asked why, especially when there ideals are apt to be attacked.

i have however seen people like you describe: [quote] "I just don't know" or "I have no rational reason"! [/quote] i have not detected that here, but elsewhere.

you have to admit though, or not.. that asking why all the time can be harmful to your health, especially if you are stupid enough to answer. :/

Well my flatmate in the next door room is gay... Lets just say the noises at night make me cry. Theres also 2 types of gays as I have observed. Women and men gays (as in both being men, but one acts like a woman, the other a man).

The man woman gay is picky and constantly cleans and moans, just like a real woman. The man gay is the guy who goes out and gets drunk all night, comes home and gets shouted at by the man woman gay, but he later forgives the other one.

I know why Orph is refusing to answer the "why" question, and that he gets all offended when anyone asks him the reason for his deep hatred for homosexuals. It's so obvious that a toddler can see.

But of course, I won't tell. And don't anyone dare ask me why.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting satchmo</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>I know why Orph is refusing to answer the "why" question, and that he gets all offended when anyone asks him the reason for his deep hatred for homosexuals. It's so obvious that a toddler can see.

</DIV></DIV>

perhaps, its more like, we have a toddler in the conversation. :rolleyes:

you, i a afraid, have not been here near long enough to know me to any great extent. you might think you have a reason, you may very well be right, but its doubtful.

besides, my reasons are not for you to decide whether they are sufficient to be "good enough" or not. you are essentially.. well lets just say, in the grand scheme that is my life.. a nobody.

basically what it boils down to is, when people like me, meet people like you, people like me cannot give a reason good enough to appease you, so why bother. :sad:

for all my bad views of gays, they do not compare to the hostility generated by people who think like you do.. before you answer consider this.. the entire thread was calm and rational until you blew it apart. even i for all my negativity on the subject, kept my harsher thinking to a minimum..

anyways.. you basically killed the thread. remember that for the next time. :sad:

for the record however, about 3 years ago, i opened my mouth and typed something i lived to regret about gays, right here on this site.. you my friend, are not important enough for me to repeat that mistake, ever again.. so if your reason for my not answering "why" does not include that, you were wrong.