Youth violence

Right near where I used to work, in Southern California, we had a
recent incidence where a thirteen-year-old pony league baseball player
smashed the head of a friend with a baseball bat.

It happened after the game, and the older (fifteen years old) boy was
blaming the youngster for losing the game. The guy apparent got
upset, but calmly walked over to his bag and retrieved an alumninum
baseball bat. He started swinging at the older kid, eventually
killing him with it (right in front of a group of bystanders at a snack
bar).

These people involved are younger than most of us mappers here at the Pit, so I thought it's quite shocking.

Let's ban baseball. it obviously causes young kids to commit violent crimes.

I wonder if this kid had played GTA3.

he prolly had, how come its always cs kids and gta kids that gets violent, i never really heard about any violent hl2 kids.

maybe the kid was born with the trait and couldn't help himself :rolleyes:

i never really heard about any violent hl2 kids.

Crowbars are too heavy for a 13 year old to wield efficiently, I think.

Oh, and what about postal2 (hilarious, btw :biggrin: )? Isn't it funny when
you decapitate a cop, play hockey with his head using a shovel, then
set the corpse on fire and attempt to extinguish it by pissing on it? :biggrin:

<div><div>[quote]
maybe the kid was born with the trait and couldn't help himself [/quote]

Once again, you're comparing someone who commits an act of hatred to
homosexuals, who commits a crime by falling in love (according to Orph).

</div></div>

satchmo said:
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quote:</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>maybe the kid was born with the trait and couldn't help himself

Once again, you're comparing someone who commits an act of hatred to homosexuals, who commits a crime by falling in love (according to Orph).
</DIV></DIV>
</div></div>

dude listen to yourself.. so right.. :rolleyes:

there are millions upon millions of people whom think that anger is a born thing. something you have within you upon conception even. the same damned excuse is used over and over to explain away.. to f**king explain AWAY evil actions. it doesn't truly explain them, it just reduces it to the level of giving up on it. why argue, its what they were born with, right?

either you accept that issues of the mind are born traits, or they are issues learned through life's experiences, you cannot flip from one side of the other on a whim.. which is exactly what you are doing.

if people are born gay, they can be fixed, if people are born angry or tend to act upon anger with physical violence, it can also be fixed. i still hold to my convictions, of which i am not alone in, that people learn these things, and as such MUST be held accountable..

speaking of "life styles" a defense you use liberally.. sad that.. anyways, a few hundred years ago it was 100% acceptable in japan to f**k little children, especially little boys. thankfully, that life style was held in contempt and as far as i know is no longer held in a good light.. so as far as your life styles defense goes.. IT SUCKS ASS.

A hundred years ago, it's perfectly acceptable to own black slaves and
treat them as sub-humans. If we never fixed things, we'd still be
doing that today.

It's useless talking to you. I know you're not going to change
your mind. I just don't see anything wrong with two consenting
adults falling in love and have a relationship. You, on the other
hand, believe it's an act of evil and require these people to be
surgically corrected.

That said, it's really no point to elaborate. Just like I ain't
going to talk to a Klans member and try to persuade him that people of
all races should be treated equally.

you keep comparing apples to oranges. racism is not the same as homophobia.. (i cannot believe i just used that word in a sentence, its so wrong, but it seems the only common ground to work upon :sad: )

racism is wrong, it does not have to be sanctioned to be so, it is wrong. discriminating of gays is wrong to, but treating them like gays is not discrimination. gays are proud of their differences, until it doesn't give them what they want anymore, then they want to be treated like normal folks. its a lot like the womens lib movement of the 60's.. they wanted equality up until it was granted to them, then they wanted to be treated like women. go figure.

anyways, you are working under the assumption that you are championing a noble goal, when all you are really doing is perpetuating a wrong under a noble banner.

either way, i am not attempting to change your views only to point out that you are swapping sides whenever it suits your need. either gays are born, or they are created, either anger issues are born, or they are created.. all wrongs are either/or.. you cannot swap whenever it begins to disprove your point. :sad:

anyways, i have hashed this out with far to many people, damned few of them were open enough to even entertain the idea that they might be wrong. even you took my comment in the other thread and turned it into a noble thing. i did not say you were a bad guy for supporting human rights, i said you were a bad guy for being so closed minded to your belief that you must be right. the very same people you despise. you are indeed one of the bad guys now.

just.. like.. me.

The thing is Orph, I just don't see where homosexuals are doing anything wrong. I've asked my parents to explain this to me a thousand times, and the best explanation they can come up with is always "God says it's wrong, so it must be wrong." I can't imagine you taking the same line.

and you won't either. i am not the type to use an excuse like that to prove my point.

i always get the feeling that people just do not understand exactly what i am complaining over.

1) gays exist, i do not care that the do.. that is not my issue, i abhor the concept of homosexuality. STOP COMPARING racism to abhorrent actions.

2) i am a believer that homosexuality is taught.. reason? when i was a child, my best friends family believed in nudity.. to them it was nothing to go around 24/7 naked as a jay bird. what does this have to do with homosexuality? nothing, but the idea is, if you are raised from birth to not see it as wrong, you won't

3) i hate reverse discrimination.. go into a restaurant.. couple #1 is hetero, couple #2 is homo.. couple #1 begin to cuddle and kiss, so does couple #2.. if a patron complains about couple #1, the management is apt to ask them to stop, the management will not in all likelihood approach couple #2.. i have witnessed this multiple times. :sad:

4) fixing a wrong, before it becomes a wrong is not discrimination.. if a future gay person is fixed before birth, they will never know that they were destined to be abnormal.. case solved.

5) who's to say that fixing them before birth is not what was meant to happen eventually anyways?

bottom line, stop comparing racism to this.. it does not apply. and i will stop complaining that that you are wrong.

2) i am a believer that homosexuality is taught.. reason? when i was a
child, my best friends family believed in nudity.. to them it was
nothing to go around 24/7 naked as a jay bird. what does this have to
do with homosexuality? nothing, but the idea is, if you are raised from
birth to not see it as wrong, you won't

What happens when a person is raised in a staunchly anti-gay family,
and at some point, during adolescence or later, they realize they're
attracted to the same sex and that they're gay?

Is that person homosexual because he/she was taught to be so?

Addicted to Morphine said:
<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quote:</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>2) i am a believer that homosexuality is taught.. reason? when i was a child, my best friends family believed in nudity.. to them it was nothing to go around 24/7 naked as a jay bird. what does this have to do with homosexuality? nothing, but the idea is, if you are raised from birth to not see it as wrong, you won't

What happens when a person is raised in a staunchly anti-gay family, and at some point, during adolescence or later, they realize they're attracted to the same sex and that they're gay?

Is that person homosexual because he/she was taught to be so?
</div></div>

what happens when a stanch god fearing family raises a child properly and they go out and get pregnant or die from drugs?

whats your point? i raised my children with all the proper beliefs that could, there was no guarantee that they would grow up and retain them..

have you never heard of peer pressure? if your chosen group of cronies decides that gay is OK, you may decide that its OK as well.. or get pregnant, or die from drugs :rolleyes:

instilling proper morals does not guarantee retention of said morals.

some people, will do the exact opposite just because.. if you are weak willed enough, you could turn out to be anything :sad:

I can't imagine you taking the same line.

Don't forget that Orph is from the same generation as our parents, so
it's not too surprising to me that they share the same ideas about
things.

satchmo said:
<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quote:</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>I can't imagine you taking the same line.

Don't forget that Orph is from the same generation as our parents, so it's not too surprising to me that they share the same ideas about things.
</div></div>

Jezus H Christ, you make it sound like I never argued with my parents generation.

I am old, I am not ancient.. I have had these ideals since before i was your age, and long before all of you were born. that does not make them right because they are old ideals, but it sure as hell makes them mine through unwavering dedication to them.

Stop making it sound like i am wrong just because i am old.

Cassius said:
The thing is Orph, I just don't see where homosexuals are doing anything wrong. .

thats because you are making the same fatal mistake a lot of people do. not just about this topic, but many others as well. you are under the false impression that just because it isn't wrong, it must be right. this is not the case in many situations. this one may be different slightly because you see it as a human issue where its not really. its a chosen life style, not a preordained path that must be followed.

paths that must be are things like food intake, air intake and sleep. choices are whether to have sex, to buy a car, or whom to have sex with.

heterosexuals do on occasion abstain from ever having sex with anyone. homosexuals could make the same choice. and if they did, they would not be homosexual now wouldn't they.

it has always been my conviction that you are not gay until you have sex voluntarily for the first time. up to that point, you have committed no wrongs. i do not believe in the thought police. so thinking you are gay is not a wrong to be held accountable for.

our biggest problem to see eye to eye on is not gay rights, but gay actions. i think its a choice, you think its not.

and i always will.

Why do you think homosexuality should be fixed?

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting DrGlass</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>Why do you think homosexuality should be fixed?
</DIV></DIV>

ask yourselves why they should not be first. then ask if that question justifies a response.

actually, what makes you think you should even ask me? is that not at least as intrusive as me thinking they need fixed?

furthermore, if you were following the discussion, you would know that i think gays are made, not born. so your question does not apply to me. :rolleyes:

While I normally stay clear of debates such as this (and am normally against derailings like this at the pit) I'm curious. Why exactly do you feel homosexuality is wrong?

wil5on said:
While I normally stay clear of debates such as this (and am normally against derailings like this at the pit) I'm curious. Why exactly do you feel homosexuality is wrong?

why do you guys always ask someone else to defend themselves, or their beliefs? ask yourself the opposite question and when you feel you have the correct answer, think the opposite and it will prolly be close.

when you think about homosexuality do you feel all rosy and nice inside? well do you? can you honestly answer the question you expect me to?

my response, when you can think of my rights and privacy as important as a gays, then we'll discuss the whys and wherefores.

i never can understand how my right to live the way i want is not as important.

I'm not criticising your point, I'm just questioning it. Personally I dont feel strongly either way on this issue.

wil5on said:
I'm not criticising your point, I'm just questioning it. Personally I dont feel strongly either way on this issue.

and theres nothing right or wrong about that, but i am not asking you why you are the way you are. it would never enter my mind to back you into a corner in such a way.

personally, i think inaction is the same as supporting a thing, but thats just me.

sometimes i ask myself, "do these guys ever really think before they ask?" because i have never been compelled to explain myself to anyone, nor do i expect it in return.. i can't even recall the last time i asked someone to do so. :/

Wilson, i am not offended at you but i do get annoyed sometimes when people ask such a question with so cavalier an attitude.

<div class="quote"><div class="quotetitle">? quote:</div><div class="quotetext"><div class="quote">what happens when a stanch god fearing family raises a child properly and they go out and get pregnant or die from drugs?</div>
whats your point? i raised my children with all the proper beliefs
that could, there was no guarantee that they would grow up and retain
them..

have you never heard of peer pressure? if your chosen group of
cronies decides that gay is OK, you may decide that its OK as well.. or
get pregnant, or die from drugs :rolleyes:

instilling proper morals does not guarantee retention of said morals.

some people, will do the exact opposite just because.. if you are weak willed enough, you could turn out to be anything :sad:

</div></div>

My point is that I personally don't believe a person's sexual
orientation is influenced by peer pressure. The idea that a
person will be peer pressured into turning gay seems ridiculous to
me. Just because a person hangs out with people who don't think
being gay is wrong, doesn't mean that person will turn gay. I
have never met (in my relatively short 20 years of life) a person, of
any sexual orientation, who has pressured someone to turn gay.

What I do believe is that the environment a person grows up in, and the
friends that person makes, will determine whether or not that person
will be comfortable enough to admit that they are homosexual. If
the person is heterosexual, they will not turn gay in a liberal
environment. But if the person is homosexual, they'll be more
comfortable coming out if they're surrounded by friends and family who
will still love them regardless of their sexual orientation.

Boyfriends pressure their girlfriends to have unprotected sex.
Friends pressure friends to take a hit. But homosexuals don't
pressure heterosexuals to turn gay.

Addicted to Morphine said:
Boyfriends pressure their girlfriends to have unprotected sex. Friends pressure friends to take a hit. But homosexuals don't pressure heterosexuals to turn gay.

its not pressure per say, its alteration of perspectives.

my best friend in the world was straight.. i am not sure what he is now.. he started hanging out with a group of gays, his reasoning also i am unsure of.. he told me when i asked "are you gay now? he looked me dead in the eye and said "No! he is bi-sexual"

we have not been as close anymore.. sadly i see absolutely no difference in a part time fag and a full time one.

i firmly believe his opinions were altered by his environment, a made gay.

he is still my best friend, but he also knows that if he wants to remain so, he better keep his activities to himself. i do not want to hear the sordid details.

DrGlass said:
Why do you think homosexuality should be fixed?

ask yourselves why they should not be first. then ask if that question justifies a response.

actually, what makes you think you should even ask me? is that not at least as intrusive as me thinking they need fixed?

furthermore, if you were following the discussion, you would know
that i think gays are made, not born. so your question does not apply
to me. :rolleyes:

I dont think homosexuals are 'broken'

I just wonder why you think that, even if some one is "made" gay, their
life choice should be changed becuase a majority dosn't agree with it?

I'm not trying to change your opinion or anything, I'm just curious why you would have that opinion.

DrGlass said:
I'm not trying to change your opinion or anything, I'm just curious why you would have that opinion.

and sadly i am forced to say "thats really none of your business"

sorry, but its just not part of the equation. why i feel the way i do will not enlighten you in the least. you will not learn a thing by my doing so, so i will just keep it to myself.

before you think ill of that, ask yourself, what kind of person would i be, if i convinced you i was right?

Well, didn't this get off topic fast :smile: .

Agent Smith said:
Well, didn't this get off topic fast :smile: .

I know, I never had a chance to discuss the original topic. And now the thirteen year old is charged with murder, but the judge postponed the trial.

remember that time that you were naked at school and everyone was laughing at you and you couldnt wake up? that's cause it was real!!

[color=white]how's that for off topic?


heh, anyway, being an old-fasioned guy, I don't think that Homosexuality is right. I don't know where the hell you ppl get that it's genetic!!!

In order for a problem to be genetic, the gene must be passed on from your parents. If your parents are both males, they cannot make a child together and they cannot propagate that gene. so....WTF?

[/color]

http://www.snarkpit.net/forums.php?forum=1&topic=4763&start=0

ffs. :razz:

Kage_Prototype said:
http://www.snarkpit.net/forums.php?forum=1&topic=4763&start=0

ffs. :razz:

FFS indeed, okay from now on if gays don't try to make me gay, I won't try to make them straight. Deal.

i firmly believe his opinions were altered by his environment, a made gay.

It seems to me that its possible that a person in his position
always had doubts about his heterosexuality, and it was only when he
started hanging out in that environment that he was comfortable
admitting it. I just can't imagine a straight man with no qualms
about his sexual orientation hanging out with homosexuals and thinking
that their way of life is better for him, and that he should change his
orientation. It just doesn't make sense to me. I can't
imagine his new gay friends brainwashing him... or seducing him... or
whatever the other possible explanations one could put forward.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Addicted to Morphine</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>

I can't imagine

</DIV></DIV>

Dude listen to yourself.. i can't imagine a guy looking at a guy and getting a hardon either, but it happens. i can't imagine a lot of things, but it happens every day.

you people are so narrow minded that its painful not only to watch, but to listen to as well. it may not be common, but for some gays its all ABOUT THE SEX.. some guys can be persuaded to swap over simple because its easier to have sex with a man, than it is to find a woman willing. usually the time from meeting to bedroom is shorter as well. thats a horrible generalization, but its basically true none the less.

most people are under the opinion that being gay has nothing to do with sex, i on the other hand think it is entirely the determining factor. the first group think its some feminine, lisp talking idiot who goes around wishing he could fit into a size 5 dress, where i believe its people who stick their wanger into each others rump end.

being taught to be gay, is not as far fetched as you want to not believe.. :sad:

satchmo said:
I know, I never had a chance to discuss the original topic. And now the thirteen year old is charged with murder, but the judge postponed the trial.

as to the original topic, i was pissed, but my comment was genuine.. you derailed it my friend. i hope you can at least admit it and move on.

some people actually believe anger issues a born trait.

perhaps if you were not so gung ho about your gay views, the thread would have stayed a bit true. :sad:

I agree that those who perform such acts of violence, like school
shootings and things, already have a psychological or genetic
predisposition towards such acts. Apparently .05 percent of the
population are psychopaths, and usually its people within that
percentage that do such things. I mean, I play GTA and other games, but
I don't want to go around running people down. I feel guilty killing
bugs sometimes. And I'm sure that most people in this community and the
world are also this way.

Of course this isn't taking into
consideration the situation in which the act happens, and any other
environmental, social, psychological, physical issues that affect the
individual in their actions. But generally people have an inbuilt block
to hurting others, particularly those of the same species.

If
anyone is interested in this subject and would like to find out more, I
found the book 'On Killing : The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill
in War and Society' by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman to be a great read and
extremely interesting.

Let's ban baseball. it obviously causes young kids to commit violent crimes.

I wonder if this kid had played GTA3.

Ha! Just what I was thinking, scapegoat!

When did the snarkpit come back then?

I love a good flame.

Addicted to Morphine said:
I can't imagine

Dude listen to yourself.. i can't imagine a guy looking at a guy and
getting a hardon either, but it happens. i can't imagine a lot of
things, but it happens every day.

you people are so narrow minded that its painful not only to watch,
but to listen to as well. it may not be common, but for some gays its
all ABOUT THE SEX.. some guys can be persuaded to swap over simple
because its easier to have sex with a man, than it is to find a woman
willing. usually the time from meeting to bedroom is shorter as well.
thats a horrible generalization, but its basically true none the less.

most people are under the opinion that being gay has nothing to do
with sex, i on the other hand think it is entirely the determining
factor. the first group think its some feminine, lisp talking idiot who
goes around wishing he could fit into a size 5 dress, where i believe
its people who stick their wanger into each others rump end.

being taught to be gay, is not as far fetched as you want to not believe.. :sad:

When I say "I can't
imagine his new gay friends brainwashing him... or seducing him... or
whatever the other possible explanations one could put forward."
I'm in effect saying, there's no explanation for what you're arguing is
happening. If you want to document some cases where people were
brainwashed by gays be my guest. You say "Dude listen to
yourself.. i can't imagine a guy looking at a guy and
getting a hardon either, but it happens. i can't imagine a lot of
things, but it happens every day." When you say "I can't imagine"
you just mean, I can't stand to think about that happening. When
I say I can't imagine, it's because its an impossibility, when you say
you can't imagine, it's because its abhorrent to your mind.

A guy getting a hard on for another guy, strange as it may be to you,
happens all the time. Yet the idea of gays
brainwashing/indoctrinating straights, is strange to me, because just
doesn't happen.

You ignore my argument completely and instead pick and misinterpret my
language. So here's two direct questions. How often do gay
people turn straight people gay? Has it happened before in one
documented instance?

I would answer, never and never.

Next, to call me narrow minded is simply unfair. I just have a
different opinion than you do. Your justification for my supposed
"narrow mindedness" is that I don't agree with you. You could
call me narrow minded if after everyone of your posts I ignored
everything you said and just reposted my original statement again in
all caps. I didn't expect you would try to assume the moral
highground on this debate, when essentially we're arguing about a moral
issue on the same level. We both have different opinions, but as
long as we're exchanging ideas on an intellectual level, no matter how
much our opinions differ, we're not being narrow minded. In fact
its the opposite.

Orpheus said:
some people actually believe anger issues a born trait.

Uh... sometimes, yes it is, in part. That doesn't mean we should allow excessive anger issues to persist, nor that we shouldn't hold people accountable for their behavior, but anger issues are often chemical, just like depression.

oh.. geez.

::slaps forehead::

Well if it is a born trait then surely we should be sentencing people to prison whilst they are still in the womb!

Yeah, has anyone seen the movie "Gattaca" here at the Pit? It's a perfect example of how genetic pre-determination runs amok.

There is such a thing called free will. And unless our mental capacity is clouded by illness, we should be held accountable for our actions.

Myrk- said:
Well if it is a born trait then surely we should be sentencing people to prison whilst they are still in the womb!

Cassius said:
That doesn't mean we should allow excessive anger issues to persist,

Morphine: you chose to alter my meanings as well. you downplay my definition of "I can't imagine" to something at paltry as aversion to abhorrent actions. which is entirely untrue. i cannot imagine the act i described.. its IMPOSSIBLE! to paraphrase you.

also, when i say narrowminded, its not to say you are not intelligent, but more that you are to focused. i am not calling you stupid or in any way attempting to insult you. but that does not preclude that you are narrow in your thinking. just because you have not heard of something, does not in any way mean its not happened before. so saying "never" in not a good thing for you to think.

anyways, i have had just about enough topics involving gays.. they do not warrant near as much time as we are dedicating to them. there are far more important issues we could be discussing. i can never understand how any topic that remotely involves gay issue can dominate so much time. they just are not worth it.

anyways, lets see if we can finish 2005 without bringing up so offensive a topic again shall we?

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bangs head on the wall

Kage_Prototype said:
bangs head on the wall

YOU!!!!.

.

.

.

.

you can always be counted on to make me smile. :smile:

Orpheus, I agree.

Sorry for doing my part to derail this thread. I usually tend to
keep away from internet debates, but I let myself go on that one.
I'm not sure if these needs saying, but I absolutely meant no
disrespect in any of my posts. Sometimes it's hard to convey
things like calmness or sincerity over the internet.

Back to the original topic, for some reason I'm not that surprised to
hear of one kid beating up and killing another. I am surprised
that he did so in a public area and no one stopped him. Unless
the whole thing was over in 3 seconds, that's just inexplainable.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Addicted to Morphine</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>
Sometimes it's hard to convey things like calmness or sincerity over the internet.

</DIV></DIV>

Tell me about it, most think i am some kind of animal that stalks unwary gays and slays them at will :sad:

its not gay people, its homosexuality. i do not hate people who are racist, i hate racism. i know many,many people who are racist, who cause no harm what-so-ever. they are simply of the mind, that races should remain distinct, and blending them such as making children is a sin. i never could understand the thinking but as long as they are not killing, or harming each other in their beliefs i have no real issues with their racism..

to paraphrase these gay supporters own words.. being a racist does not mean you are evil or doing anything wrong.. in other words, they are not harming anyone in their belief.

i do believe there are racist who do harm, as well as gays who do harm, but it has nothing to do with how i feel about the concepts as a whole.

yeah...sooooo. uh. What happened with the baseball kid? news link?

No news so far. The newspaper is focused on the conclave at this moment.

I guess I was right. The conclave was quite efficient this time. The new Pope Benedict XVI is now enthroned.