Lag and Ents

In my section for the pitcrew map, I have about 8 func_trains running, most with sychronized sounds. the w_poly is quite high ~1100, but not high enough to lag my computer by itself. everything works great in SP mode, but if I start an MP game, things get very choppy and the sounds do not synch properly. is this an intrinsic property of having that many ents going at once or is there some way to avoid it? also, are there specific entities which cause MP lag?

Im guessing its because in DM mode, there are other things that HL has to run like the scoring system, the spawn system, etc.

Also, perhaps your e_ploys are off the scale? :biggrin:

I once heard the limit for e_polys was around 6000

But they change depending on what weapon you are using and how many players you are playing with

it's probably because it has to track all the moving func_trains online, which probably sucks bandwidth.

yeah, high epoly will cause lag.. sometimes func_water will as well, and those wpolies are kinda high for the old game engine.

it's probably because it has to track all the moving func_trains online, which probably sucks bandwidth.

yeah, high epoly will cause lag.. sometimes func_water will as well, and those wpolies are kinda high for the old game engine.

Could be those trains... and water can cause problems too :/

Yeah, that's probably a few too many trains for a mp level... trains can really start eating up the system. I doubt it's rendering related, as that shouldn't change from sp to mp. Entity calculation and bandwith allocation will, though.

Hmm. that's pretty much what I was thinking. I guess I will just have to cut back on those trains when the map comes back round. sigh my crate factory is sooo cool though :sad:

**EDIT** see TB's last post for the actual solution in this case. It turned out that making the trains "not solid" solved the problem. **EDIT**

In the final version of Gmdm2, I had only one func_train. However, I had experimented with eight (don't ask) and did not suffer this problem at all. It is highly unlikely that your level contains more entities than Gmdm2, although they may be used less efficiently.

There are two possible relevant differences that I can see. Firstly, my trains were all placed in exactly the same position and followed the same path (like I said, don't ask). Secondly, my trains did not emit sound (well, they used a totally different mechanism to emit sound....don't ask).

I'm confident that the engine does path calculations for each train independently. This means that the second difference is more likely to be important. Therefore I recommend that you experiment by removing the sounds totally. If this cures the lag, then you have found the culprit and can begin thinking of a work-around.

If this doesn't work, you can try further tests. The next test is to remove your crate/train setup from the map and place it in a simple test map. This will allow you to determine whether the train entities on their own are potent enough to cause the lag. If they are not, then it could be another part of the map or the overall combination of entity calculations.

I know this seems tedious, but that's what you have to do if you want to eke something novel out of the engine.

Here is an alternative solution that I feel may be more promising.

I know, from my work with Spirit of HL, that the HL engine has a limited number of channels to play sounds from. It may be the case that, if all the sounds start at exactly the same time, they will not play properly. Try offsetting them slightly.

Allrighty Gollum. I will try that. nothing like applying the scientific method to a problem :biggrin:

Wild Card said:
Im guessing its because in DM mode, there are other things that HL has to run like the scoring system, the spawn system, etc.

Also, perhaps your e_ploys are off the scale? :biggrin:

I once heard the limit for e_polys was around 6000

But they change depending on what weapon you are using and how many players you are playing with

This sound like the best answer (being DM) , along with the sound idea, it could be any number of things, but the DM is the best, just think the computer (if your hosting) is calculating 8 trains for you, 16 if your playing someone (8 for you 8 for the other) and its 24 for 3 people, etc......... that keeping the trains in the exact same spot is very crutial, maybe you can try making some of those trains into rotateable objects, as its takes less "bandwith" of the HL engine.

well, dont know if this helps TB, but ive found thru fiddling with some of my "magnificent laser setups" (c), among others, the engine will handle only so many of ANY kind of animation producing entity....i get some of the most horrible lags that ive ever had, and have reduced the amounts and configurations drasticly to avoid the problems, or just scrapped the f**ker alltogether, as sad as it made me....so, i guess the point is, limit your imagination....*sigh*me waits for the magical machine to arrive....

Doc B... :dodgy:

If those 4 things at the bottom of your create maker are func_trains, make them doors instead.

Trains and such create uber lag as well when you try to clip pushable objects or players with them.

In Desert Crisis (don't know if anyone remembers this beast, one of my old favorites) there was a map on two islands; the players from one side could get to the other by way of either a huge helicopter with rotating blades or a fairly complex boat. They only lagged depending what server you were in, and if you were enough of a moron to slap eight soldiers into one helicopter.

I have them as trains because they have odd Timing. they move slowly coming out, and faster on the way in, with a pause inbetween. Cass gives me an idea though, might it speed things up if I made all of them "not solid"?

Well having 1100 wpoly and then some other stuff will create some lag, but having other entity heavy actions occuring in the same area would most likely cause some real lag. I've seen the same area with a 900-ish wpoly play smooth if you come from the left, but if you come from the right it lags terribly. It's just one of those quirks.

Cass may have a good point there - I know my trains in gmdm2 were not solid.

trains and the ensuing lag have ruined many an otherwise excellent map..

my favorite example is "sub-transit"

it never fails, some asswipe will turn on the forking train KNOWING what it does to the pings..

it reached the point to where i just stopped playing the map at all.. remember, back then i fragged every day, and on a 56k, 300+ ping connection.

i hated them so much, i never even learned how to make one..

update for the good of the database

making the trains "not solid" fixed the problem. thanks for the help all. :smile: