Ban hits Half-Life 2 pirates hard

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Jezpuh</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>You see that Steam can be handy? :razz:
</DIV></DIV>

I think it would now be a nice time to quote someone's signature from the Sven-Coop boards :]
"Thank You for Using Steaming pile of s**t.[color=white]"

[/color]

hahaha 2 of my mates were banned, i told em to buy it, hahaha

i should realy kick 'em in the nuts for copying it illigaly......

maybe i will muahahahaha

<div style="text-align: left;">Spartan, I think it depends on the
circumstances. If I have a LAN with some mates and we fancy playing a
few rounds of a game not all of us own, but it turns out you need the
CD in the drives to play, then I'm fine with burning copies to allow us
to play. Likewise I don't mind cracking a game or installing a friends
game to allow us to play on a LAN. I personally think the means to do
this should be provided by the developers, and if it isn't, then I'm
willing to work around it. If I find myself to be playing it often,
then I go and buy it. I'm also fine with pirating games if it is your
only means of getting it - a lot of obscure PS1 or Dreamcast games are
impossible to get a hold of these days, so I've no qualms with copying
them or whatever.

What I don't like to see is somebody downloading that ?30 game and
playing through it thinking thats fine. These things aren't free to
make, and they aren't made to be handed out to people free of charge.
If you want it, you should damn well pay for it and give some return to
the people who put their time and effort into it. If you aren't willing
to pay for it, thats no problem, but its not yours to play.

</div>

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting ReNo</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>
I am a hypocrite for being pissed off at game piracy while committing music piracy, but it wouldn't be right to not support the industry you plan on going into really would it.
</DIV></DIV>

this is the true crux of the matter for me. i personally have no issues one way or the other, if someone feels its wrong, hell thats not bad of them, and if they feel its not wrong, no harm there either, but to distinguish wrong as just so much piracy really burns my butt. either its wrong, or its not, it shouldn't be just a bit worse than you are committing ATM :sad:

i cannot, nor am i able to convince you that money lost and money never gained are two totally different things so i will desist trying.. but look at it this way and maybe you will understand human concepts of money gained and lost.

you wear a coat, its your coat but you have not put it on for almost a year. in the pocket is a 20 dollar bill.. you are elated for finding a 20, but the point is, it was yours all along only you never missed it nor knew it was missing.

the games never bought are not lost, its money they never had so unlike the 20 dollar bill, it never was theirs to claim. but people look at money so oddly, you are elated for finding the not missing 20, but WHY???
anywho's i hate people who say its wrong, yet do it on a less impressive scale so its OK.. "I only download a few songs" thats what i hate. LIARS are far worse than SOFTWARE PIR8's.

[edit] and burning copies to play on a lan just as Duncan just described is JUST AS WRONG no more, and certainly no less.. all he described was cutting out the internet process of the steps involved.

wrong is wrong, there are not subtle degrees of wrong when it comes to obtaining a video game to play.

You don't have to convince me that money lost and money not earned are
different - I already agree. I have software I shouldn't have, but I
don't think I'm making the companies they belong to lose money as I'm
not a potential customer for them. Adobe don't try to sell amateur
computer users like us Photoshop - we aren't their target market.
Discreet don't try and target us when they are marketing 3D Studio Max
as we are highly unlikely to pay the huge costs needed for the program.
These companies aim their products at other companies, not individuals.
By using their programs, these companies aren't missing out on my
income, they are just earning another person for their installed user
base.

Games are another matter entirely in my eyes. Games are marketed
at people like us - average folks. They are sold at reasonable (perhaps
not in the eyes of some) prices that everyday people can afford. The
game developers aren't gaining an experienced user like could be said
of software developers. If you download a game, these companies are
missing out on some of their only form of potential income - games players - and I just don't think that is on.

As for the LAN thing, the games are only being played with people who
do own legal copies of the game, which to me at least makes the
scenario acceptable. Many other games companes have also seen this
acceptable, hence the popularity of RTS's and other games allowing
multiplayer spawn installations. I'm not installing copies of these
games to have my own ownership of them and play them when I want, I'm
doing it so I can play the game with my legally owning friend.

Obviously we think differently on these matters - you see it as "wrong
is wrong", whereas I think its stupid to pile everything together
without looking at circumstances.

<div class="quote"><div class="quotetitle">? quote:</div><div class="quotetext"><div class="quote">
<div class="quotetitle">? quoting <span style="text-decoration: underline;">Orph</span></div>
</div>the games never bought are not lost, its money they never had
so unlike the 20 dollar bill, it never was theirs to claim. but people
look at money so oddly, you are elated for finding the not missing 20,
but WHY???

</div></div>

While certainly a large percentage of people who download games would
never actually buy them in the shops regardless of the price, you're
completely bypassing the people who would buy games, were no other
means of obtaining them available. This is the real money lost, as
opposed to the distorted figures they release.

Ps: Welcome to the snarkpit satchmo. :wink: <span style="text-decoration: underline;"></span>

Duncan, i was not taking anything out on you, i was only using you as an example of how people justify things, or better rationalizing a wrong away in favor of doing it with a clear conscience.

if i over stepped myself i apologize. i didn't mean to be a hypocrite, after all you know my collection status i assume :biggrin:

my point was only to say, people tend to set the "WRONG" of any situation at just worse than they are committing. i say what you are doing (you as in anyone who copies any game for any reason) is exactly the same as what i am doing, no worse, no better.

as i said many times, i buy all the games i want.. i am poor but i buy everything worth having. i can scan the disk covers to prove just how often if anyone is in doubt. on average i buy 5 to 10 games annually, considering i play only 1 or 2 half way through that sounds obscene, but i am not the only gamer in this house.

anywho's, i hope you accept my apology as it looked as if i may have crossed your line of tolerance.

/me bows out.

If you download a game, these companies are missing out on some of their only form of potential income

No, this is just plain wrong. There is nothing to say that somebody who downloaded a game would have gone and bought it, had the download option not existed.

Downloading music or games or whatever is a way to have more stuff in addition to what you would normally be able to buy. Of course there are some people who never buy anything, but that does not make your statement correct.

Orph is totally right. If you are happy to make copies of a game, then, using you areguement, you are depriving the game companies of income. The correct thing to do is for each person who wants to play to buy their own copy... Just because you personally think that installing a game on many PCs on a LAN should be ok, doesn't mean your logic isn't flawed.

For myself I don't download games, as I only play games worth buying, and as such I buy them. The problem is the high price of games. Granted, a lot of money and time is spent making a game, but like you pointed out Reno, the target audience of game developers are individuals like us. I don't know about all of you, but I might only buy 2-3 games a year, in a good year, because I cannot really afford to purchase anymore than that. $100+ (here in Aus) is a lot to pay for a game. I'd happily spend that on something really good, like HL2 or Call of Duty, but thats a lot to pay for something you might think is okay. Which I think is what a lot of people think, hence pirating occurs. If the general price of new games drop to around $60-80 Aus, or your equivalent, you'd see a lot less pirating because more people are willing to spend that much. Sure the companies would loose some money due to the price decrease, but they'd make it back with an increased number of sales. At least thats what I think.

Often myself and a couple of mates my buy a new game each, then lend them to each other so we each have copies of the new games, but the cost is split. We're still paying for the games, just not as much as the often rip off price.

A friend of mine was close to finishing his illegal download when I
linked him to an article about Valve's actions. Needless to say he
cancelled and deleted the files right after that :biggrin:

Excellent! One of the reasons we don't get many good games today is because competent companies go bankrupt due to piracy (nobody would pirate a crap game, would they?).

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Andrei</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>Excellent! One of the reasons we don't get many good games today is because competent companies go bankrupt due to piracy (nobody would pirate a crap game, would they?). </DIV></DIV>

god i hope you do not truly believe that. sounds an awful lot like you believe the crap they feed you.

piracy doesn't hurt, it doesn't help, but it doesn't hurt.

lets say hypothetically now, 1 million copies are sold, and one million are pirated. they sold 1 million, there is no way to know if any of the other one million would ever consider buying, so we are stuck with "one million sold"

thats the number that counts toward profit and loss. not the pirated copies as no money ever exchanges hands.

as i keep saying, corporate bigwigs think differently, they are not realistic at all. how would you like to have to buy groceries on your projected income, and find out you only made half of it. would you feel cheated that you only made 1/2? or would you think that the 1/2 is all there is? in other word 100% of your total income?

if they could come up with a legal way to profit from piracy, they would. the crying would end there and then.

jeez people, use the brain you were born with, and if that fails, listen to someone with a few more cells than you seem capable of using. :/
bottom line, you CANNOT LOSE what you never had. its that simple.

I can see your point Jeff, but to be honest I do it so rarely I don't
really see it as a problem. We've done it with three games I can recall

• Age of Kings, Ground Control 2, and Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow.

The first two, I admit, I don't really have an excuse for not buying.
Age of Kings in particular we did play quite often and so I did cheat
the company quite badly there. Ground Control 2 we played two games of,
and two of my flatmates had bought copies of the game legally. The
other two of us didn't enjoy the game particularly. Splinter Cell:
Pandora Tomorrow, again, two of my flatmates have, and I own it on the
Xbox already so buying a second copy to let me play it with my
flatmates just wasn't a reasonable thing to do in my financial
situation.

Other pirated games I own are some rare Dreamcast games, and Vib Ribbon
on the Playstation. I scoured shops online and off to find these
without success.

See these as unreasonable if you like, I don't.

I never meant that people who download games would otherwise buy them,
I'm just saying people who download games don't DESERVE to have them.
If you couldn't download games or copy them, then some of the people
who pirate them WOULD buy them legally, and games sales would increase.

Didn't acclaim go bankrupt because for every 1 game sold legally, 50 were sold by pirates and countless others lost via file-sharing programs? They lost many POTENTIAL customers.

Don't get me wrong, tho, im not one of those anti-pirate fanatics. I live in the 3rd...erm, the 2nd world and software piracy is something common here. Besides, if it weren't for piracy, many of those who own a computer here would have never bought their computers in the first place (software here is very expensive relative to the average sallary). :sad: Whats the point of paying through the nose 36mil lei for a computer and then buy 10mil lei worth of software [windows=2mil, special software between 2 and 8 (!!!) mil]. Few mortals have that kind of cash ...

And a pirate disc is as much as 100,000 lei!

well, let it be known upfront, i know its wrong, i never said piracy was right, but i have issues with people who only "do this much" as if a tiny bit of piracy is OK, but damn those who do it more often :/

as i said, i am not accusing anyone of anything, piracy is.. it just is.

will i ever see it as so wrong that i will stop? not likely. do i fault people who are totally honest? nope. i just abhor hypocrites. to me its far more wrong than piracy ever will be.

Local expression - "It's bad with the bad but it's worse without the bad.".

I still completely disagree. I spend the vast majority of my disposable
money on games - on average probably around ?20 a week - so I do my
part supporting the games industry. Even if I do a small amount of
piracy, its far less damaging to the industry than the bastards who
download or copy 100% of their games. If you still think what I am
doing is as damaging as what those other people are doing (and trust
me, there are 'gamers' who do this), then its you that is being
naive.

damn, the topic just ended :sad:

to bad.

to me its just like saying, i only screw 17 year old girls, cause its more damaging to screw 15 year olds :rolleyes:

both are wrong (assuming you are over 18 in the USA of course, its an illustration)

i couldn't give a rats ass about the gaming industry, they make enough off 1/2 the sales they do achieve. i am ONLY talking about personal morals. if you feel that you only pirate one game out of 100 and someone else steals all 100 are not the same, you might rethink right and wrong :sad:

Duncan, you are taking this to personal, BECAUSE my definition of wrong, puts you on a far worse level than you are willing to admit. you steal even one game, and its wrong, don't attempt to rationalize it by saying "i do my part" :razz:

As I said before, you obviously see any wrong as equal, I don't at all.
You say "to me its just like saying, i only screw 17 year old girls,
cause its more damaging to screw 15 year olds", well to be honest, 17
is my current lower limit for girls (legal age is 16 in the UK) so that
holds water with me :biggrin: I don't think somebody who copies 1% of their
games is as bad as one who copies 50% (nor is that person as bad as one
who copies 100%) while you do. I think there are varying degrees of
wrong, you don't, simple as that really.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that the games industry isn't as profitable
as you seem to believe, and the number of developers that shut down due
to poor sales of a title they were banking on (which piracy DOES contribute to, whether you
think so or not) would amaze you. Perhaps some companies can get by on
half the sales they currently achieve, but the majority have enough
trouble breaking even.

OK, forget about games then, would you consider death by gunshot better or worse than by knife point?

would you consider rape by males worse than rape by females (yeah it occurs)

would you consider steal one car instead of 10 less wrong?

my point isn't how it looks on paper, or under the law (cause laws vary from place to place) i am thinking morals.

i know its wrong to steal, i am not saying otherwise, but i am not saying "Take him, he stole one more game than i did"

i know you are prolly thinking that this is apples and oranges comparing rape and piracy, but i do not.

what we need 1st, is to establish some common ground.

what you need to do is, tell me what in your opinion is a wrong without any shades of grey.. what can you do as Duncan, that would be just as wrong if i were to do it too.

if nothing else, by now you should realize that i do not sanction so many shades of grey, i think almost entirely in black/white.. i have always been so ever since i came here. give me a definitive case where a wrong is a wrong to you with no shades, and we can work up from there.

I can't think of many things that are equally wrong regardless of
circumstance. For example, all rape is wrong, but I don't see it as bad
for a drunken guy to rape a girl after being led on, as for a sober
person to go out and find random women on the streets to rape. In this
case both are wrong, but one is far more abhorent than the other.
Likewise with murder - killing a person in a fight isn't as bad as
killing some random person you haven't met before "just because" you
felt like it. You ask which is worse, killing with a gun or a knife?
Well if you shoot them in the head or slice their throat then neither
is worse as their intention in both is to kill quickly, but if you
slowly torture them to death, I see this as far more wrong.

See what I mean? Most things, even if they are almost exclusively wrong, can be done in ways I see as more or less wrong.

i suppose there is no common ground then Duncan. i do believe torture killing is worse than say accidental killing, but after you die, will you really care how you got that way?

we may find torture killing more abhorrent, but is it truly worse? after all, the poor victim is dead, how much worse can it be for them?

rape is rape, be it premeditated, or spontaneous, one cannot be worse than another, both end up the same in the end.

i dunno, maybe its just this generation.. i would hope that if you are raped, or murdered someday, that you get the lessor of the choices of action :rolleyes:

Orpheus said:
rape is rape, be it premeditated

It would be fun to see a person rape someone by mistake :rolleyes: . "Whooop, sorry, thought you wuzz mah grandma'!". Sorry, couldn't help myself (although i tried to ).

"some of the people who pirate them WOULD buy them legally"

Yes, some of them would. That leaves the rest of the people, for whom pirating the game did not mean the games company lost anything.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Orpheus</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>would you consider rape by males worse than rape by females (yeah it occurs)</DIV></DIV>
...erm, yes. :rolleyes:

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Vash</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>
<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Wildcard</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>You bring up a very good point Nickelplate.</DIV></DIV>

No, he has a tumor and I possibly have one too after reading his barley legable post. Steam is not spyware, it is a great way for Valve to punch money-greedy publishers like VU and EA in the balls and then jump up and down on their livers. Steam can transfer games, patches, security fixes, and client updates instantly therefore keeping people from hacking games easier.

Steam uses up Resources, yes, but not so much that you can't play. It won't have spyware because they are Valves servers running Steam, and besides, why the f**k would they have spyware...Its a mass-transit system for game updates, not a f**king website.
</DIV></DIV>
Vash, Spyware, doesnt have to be a website. Spyware is classified as any software that tracks files, registry entries or any other data and changes thereof on a personal computer. Anyway, I want to be able to modify my files and all that without getting booted.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Vash</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>I gained a lot of respect for Steam after I heard Newell say this in one of his speech's:

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Gabe Newell</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>With Steam, game developers will make thirty dollars a game rather than making six dollars for every sold copy, and having the publisher take the rest.
</DIV></DIV>

This'll mean companies will start taking risks because their other, more popular games, will have given them more funding to take risks rather than most developers who just stick to the old formula. This will also open up a new genre and usher in games that you wouldn't ever see because publishers think they 'wont sell too good'.

People laughed at Valve when they brought the idea for Half-Life to publishers...Who's laugh'n now bitch?
</DIV></DIV>
I don't mind the content-delivery part of it, I DO mind the Constant checking up part of it.

But it doesn't constantly check your PC, it constantly checks their servers for updates. Surely there is a big difference there?

maybe its because my gaming pc is exactly that "a gaming pc" that i never seem concerned with this fixation of SPYING.

i have nothing on it but games, so even if steam wanted to look, which i doubt, they would find nothing but.... games.

perhaps i should be upset, but i cannot even seem to work up a decent "sigh" over it.

my only complaint has nothing to do with me at all. why does the initial download have to be so freaking large? it must drive 56k users nuts. surely they could have shipped everything on the cd, with only a few cursory downloads for a patch or so.

anywho's, i felt it really slapped 56k users, after all, i am betting they still out number broadband users but we see so few of them because they give up in frustration sooner. :sad:

i think steam, or steam look alikes are here to stay people, get used to them.

i, personally, have never had one problem with steam. i love steam and
think that more game developers should distribute via steam or a
steam-like program. it doesnt use up much in the way of resources, in
fact, as of right now it is using 6,456MB. i can understand this being
a lot for those with little memory, but the way i see it, if you are
running a pentium III 800 with 64MB of ram and a 32MB geforce2, how can
you expect not to begin losing computing ground with advancing
technology?

as for steam being spyware... proof?

quoted from Halflife2.net forums:

nw909:

<div class="posttext">Yes, Steam is a massive spyware
application created by VALVe the evil hellspawn of microsoft. First
steam had only very small trojans that would allow people at the VALVe
Steam department to record what you we're doing and save it in video
files, they would then be sent back to VALVe and this was all in good
taste and in the way of what a gamer does with his days.

Then Bill Gates, gabe newells good friend from back in the ghetto dayz
called down opon him and told him to add massive trojans along with hl2
media to keep the users from suspecting anything. These new trojans
would save files in the 400 mb gcache file and it would record
literally EVERYTHING! it would record websites you visited, e-mails you
checked, files you opened and would take up a massive 2 gigs of space
now.

Gabe newell was not happy in the least but bill gates still had much
power over him, being the richest man in the world and all. Shortly
after Steam employes thought this was too wrong ethicly and quit or
went on strike, they we're either replaced or sacked and relplaced.
These new employes had no ethic views or knoledge of what is right or
wrong. Steam still does record this information while Gabe and Doug
lombardi are tied up in the back room. But hey! we're getting free
movies out of it!</div>
<hr>

(that caused a great deal of roffling on my part)

http://www.steampowered.com/index.php?area=faq&id=1050915505,27362300,1063758432,02298800

as for the piracy, i downloaded a few popular games and thought they
were nothing special. i uninstalled most of them, i dont think that
that is as wrong as downloading something for free that you play all
the time. in any case i tend to agree more with reno on the subject.
there are definitely moral shades of gray. it is far easier for the law
to say this is wrong no matter what and should be punished like this no
matter what, than for a person to do the same. most of the time
circumstances vary quite a bit. the truth is that piracy is not going
to go away no matter what, those companies who go bankrupt do for many
reasons, not just piracy. what the news reports is meant to scare the
general population into obediance. most of the time bankruptcy is due
to underwhelming sales caused by inferior quality. sink or swim, simple
as that.

for those that downloaded halflife 2 illegally and got banned, tough s**t, have fun sans-HL2.

The rape jokes really aren't funny at all, everyone who's trod on that murky ground..

Think before opening your mouth?

my only complaint has nothing to do with me at all. why does
the initial download have to be so freaking large? it must drive 56k
users nuts. surely they could have shipped everything on the cd, with
only a few cursory downloads for a patch or so.

anywho's, i felt it really slapped 56k users, after all, i am
betting they still out number broadband users but we see so few of them
because they give up in frustration sooner. :sad:

Agreed. Around 2 hours worth of downloading. Ouch that hurt. Having
said that, the Steam support system does have a "56k tune-up guide". I
only found it today, so I didn't use it to validtae, and in theory
validation could have taken less time, but still...

I think 56k still
outnumbers broadband - something like 60% to 40% in the UK. Validation
took far too long, but it was worth it in the end :smile:

I hated Steam too, but it grew on me. It really is worth it, despite the disadvantages.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Andrei</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>I live in the 3rd...erm, the 2nd world </DIV></DIV>
You must live in Oklahoma then.

I don't mean that Steam is spyware in the sense that it is stealing credit card numbers and all that rubbish. I mean that it IS checking up on certain aspects of your computers whenever someone else wants it to and certain information CAN be taken if VALVe wanted (it's in the EULA) but that info is not that important. I'm just not comfortable with this yet. Mainly, my whole problem with steam is that I don't like to be required to go through any more steps than I really have to. I don't like buying an UBER game machine and then STILL having to wait a long time for my slow connection to validate every time i want to open a program stored ON MY HARD DRIVE.

As for my above statements about VAC limiting creativity, I don't mean HACKS. I mean little funny stuff like in the original HL I replaced my RPG rocket model with the skeleton and thus i was shooting laser-guided skeletons. I replaced my default crossbow bolt model with the headcrab. It is really funny to see headcrabs flying across great distances and nailing ppl in the head. But now if i ever tried any fun things like that, my steam account would be disabled because VAC doesn't know the difference between a change like this and one that is actaully a cheat.

And finally to scary_jeff: It DOES check the server for updates all the time, but you are forgetting the part that checks all your HL2 and CS:S files for any sort of modification every time you start a steam application. That is why it takes so long for steam-based progs to actaully start up.

1. If you fully validated once, that's it. It doesn't validate every time. However, it does check for updates, UNLESS YOU TURN THAT OPTION OFF.

2. You can replace the models all you want. I replaced every single HL1 model with the HD pack models and have heard no crap from VAC. They probably get agitated if you replace MP stuff (if at all by model placement).

3. You have to agree to have your specs sent back to Valve. As in a question box comes up and bluntly asks you. And all it checks is your system specs (which is something any website can do without your permission and without you knowing).

If it does not validate each time then why the heck does it take so long? Also, on my connection manager it shows steam as sending data back and forth when i start ANy valve program. Even Hammer causes my connection to be active with STEAM traffic. I know there is nothing SHADY going on with steam, but why is it doing this? What would be it's purpose?

And do you really think i can put my skeleton rockets back in effect without getting booted? I sure would like to try, but i am scared.

Also, i looked for the option to turn updates off, where is it?

Right click on a game in your steam games list and in its properties, choose the "do not automatically update this game" option.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting ReNo</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>Right click on a game in your steam games list and in its properties, choose the "do not automatically update this game" option.
</DIV></DIV>
Thanks Reno, I was looking in the main settings for steam and i couldn't find it ANYWHERE!