SPLA Map

Wild Card said:
I see a man with a hell of alot more experience than I have. Cheer up Orph :smile:

just really tired, was broke down for a while, this last run took me almost 4 days, and it was only a 2 day run.. am road weary is all..

Orpheus said:
2) reduce the area you plan on incorporating, people who are accustomed to working by themselves always tend to build grandiose areas, and forget the overall feel when working with others.. docs area looks ok, but is already nearing the r_speeds ceiling, and has almost no detail yet to speak of, his area might need reduced by 30 to 50% in overall space.

just a thought

This is why I had initialy suggested such low size limmit.

As WC says, good advice Orph. :smile:

Do we have some sort of deadline for our section betas? because I won't be able to start for another month yet...

Ok I have -dev turned on, but how do I get r_Speeds to show? Id like to be able to test that.. My Area is a tad larger that 512.. I guess I could make it smaller.. but I think it will ruin what I have so far.

To recap.. How do I get r-Speeds to show?

($)

MoneyShot said:
Ok I have -dev turned on, but how do I get r_Speeds to show? Id like to be able to test that.. My Area is a tad larger that 512.. I guess I could make it smaller.. but I think it will ruin what I have so far.

To recap.. How do I get r-Speeds to show?

($)

add -console too..

press ~ ingame, type r_speeds 1

always have console on.. but thanks for the info anyways..

Tildy, and then type r_speeds 1 ot it.. will do that now. thanks Orph.

Also where can I store my images of my map so far for you to see.. because I recently had a run in with my old host ( a friend ) and he deleted my web page, so I have no where to store the images now. I need a new host. =)

($)

MoneyShot said:
Also where can I store my images of my map so far for you to see.. because I recently had a run in with my old host ( a friend ) and he deleted my web page, so I have no where to store the images now. I need a new host. =)

($)

follow the instructionshttp://www.snarkpit.com/cp.php?mode=homepage

Thanks Again.. I will wait and see..

Back on topic.. I did the r_speeds command and got some nifty numbers..

here is what I got, maybe U can explain to me what I am seeing.

Looking down the lava trail to the lava falls..

72fps, 5ms 714 wpoly 1103 epoly

Looking across the lava stream to the back wall

72/68 fps 4ms 433 wpoly 1103 epoly

looking away from the lava

72fps 2/3/5/9 ms 270wpoly 1103 epoly.

Ok so I am running at an average of 72 frames per second, Milisecond thing has me a tad confused. does w-poly mean world polys? and e-poly mean enviroment polys?

Let me know what I have to do to fix it.. Id show you some images, but still no place to put them.

($)

P.S. I still have the pipes and steam to add to the area, I may forgo the steam now, and just do the pipes, hanging lights and other small details.. I am doing this in CS.. I dont have Half Life.. will that be ok, once its compiled with everyone elses piece?

can i answer all your questions MS ? sure :biggrin: but lets see how someone else does, my answers are a bit constricting :wink:

your numbers, are well within norms :smile:

Ok MoneyShot, here's how it goes. I assume you know what Rspeeds and all that crap. So lets decode the numbers.

72fps, 5ms 714 wpoly 1103 epoly
Your displaying 72 frames per second, which is great. Dont bother too much about the number though.

dont worry about the 5ms, Im still not sure what it means.

714wpoly means the engine (at that moment) is drawing 714 polygons. This is the magic number. Keep this number under 800 as best as possible but it can go up to 1000. If it goes any higher, then you'll have to do something.

1103epoly is the same as wpoly except its mostly for models, like weapons, items, and other players. Dont concern yourself with this number, its limit is 6000 and I have yet to even get close when I map.

umm guys, i hate to inform you, but i think ima have to pull out of this, things are a bit hecktic here, and i dont think that i can get any mapping done in the near future. im truely sorry, i hope this doesnt mess any plans up.

GL with the map

Does anyone have a real nice looking scrolling water texture? or know where one is.

I have no problem with it, Sinner. Hope everything's ok.

Looks like we need another mapper. Didn't some other guys say they wanted in? Like Doc Brasso and Finger?

Doc, do a search for 'de_volare'. That has a really nice scrolling water texture (well, it has two, so that you can multilayer it). :smile:

If Sinner_D is sitting out, we are short 2 mappers.

Another thing I was thinking about would be a group name. With the first map, they called themselves the SnarkpitCrew. Tracer Bullet had though of Snarkpit liberation army. Sounds kinda scrange to me. Anyways, I feel we would need a name as well. Any suggestions?

The SnarkPit Elite

:biggrin:

DocRock said:


The SnarkPit Elite

:biggrin:

:rolleyes: modesty will get you more points guys.. the PitCrew was a neutral "one size fits all" sorta name..

you guys are just as much the pitcrew as we are, the name would not have applied to the map other than in the credits.. as "...and the pitcrew"

i feel you should use the same thinking, if not the same name for your group.. i would not hesitate to approach any of you with that name, but i would avoid any that was more flamboyant..

try to show others, that you are all from many skill levels, and backgrounds.. PitCrew all the way :smile:

hee Orpheus has a point. I know I`m far from 1337. And I like the PitCrew. But others have used it. Perhaps the PitCrew could be a generic name for any mappers from Snarkpit who make a joint effort map.

Well there's gotta be some way of tellin the groups apart...or even call it SnarkPit Crew 2..since we're the second group to do this.

I can agree on that.

if you are short two mappers, i'd be glad to lend a hand....gimme a holler....

Dr Brasso... :dodgy:

SPLA was a bad joke on my part based on a comment made by Lep. I'm suprised it stuck as long as it did. I think the Snark Pitcrew is the best choice.

Doc- you can make any texture scroll simply by renameing it. I've got a wad that I did that to. it contains all of the standard HL water textures plus a few more in scrolling form. if you are interested, I'll post a link when I get home from school.

Dr Brasso, we have a opening on either the UPPER CENTER section or the MIDDLE RIGHT section.

1: WATER

Make your own water texture. ( Do You have Wally ) I made my own Lava.. if you need a how to let me know, and Ill better explain.

2: NAME

As for a name.. I like the PitCrew.. but it has been done.. So here are a few ideas..

SnarkCraft 3.4

TSP Mappers

The TSP Foundation / or / The Foundation.

I like them all.. just some ideas..

($)

i would like to remind everyone.. the PitCrew map has no name yet, it is currently only referred to as 9snark20.bsp

the PitCrew are the mappers whom constructed it..

you may use the title with just as much freedom as us, it applies perfectly to you all as well..

i just feel it important to remind you all, that PitCrew will NOT be our maps title, so you using that term is not a contradiction in terms..

hehehe, I think Orpheus WANTS us to use PitCrew.

Wild Card said:
hehehe, I think Orpheus WANTS us to use PitCrew.

this is the point where all the coaches have said "back out orph, you are not getting thru to them"

what i want is of no importance, do as you wish.

I like the PitCrew name.

okay then.....you guys assign me a section, i dont care which, and i'll let er rip....do i have all the info necessary to contribute via this thread, or whats the story?

Dr Brasso... :dodgy:

SPLA is awesome. It will leave people questioning. I mean, they'll see two maps out there, one by the Snark Pitcrew and one by the SPLA, and they'll be like "What the heck happened that made them create two maps? And what's this Liberation Army thing? Was there a big fight on the forums or something?" We'll just smile and nod knowingly.

"And what's this Liberation Army thing? Was there a big fight on the forums or something?" We'll just smile and nod knowingly."

I have a spot on my map that hits 1064 wpolys.. only looking at it from one spot.. everything else is below 1000, so I am kinda stuck on what to do..

What all contributes to the wpoly score? Do lights as well as how many faces it sees part of it?

Let me know.. because I am lost as what to do.. I am no where near where I want to be. I have a ton of pipes to stick in, some durt piles along walls, and what not.. and if I am hitting 900+ now.. what can I do?

($)

WOOT PAGE 13!

Lights don't effect the r_speeds, the only things that contribute to r_speeds are walls or visible brush based entities, the ones that start with 'func_'

If you need more detail, HINT brushes are helpful, plus they're just good to have in general. They might not help a whole lot, but they could maybe free up 100 or so polies. And technically, the lights do effect the r_speeds, since if a level is darker, you're not going to notice the lack of details as much.

I don't know your particular situation, so I don't know what to tell you. the main way to limit r_speeds is to avoid large open areas. seems like ther was an r_speeds thread recently... was it you that started it?

/Edit Where in Oregon Hugh?

Ooh, yes, open areas are the devil incarnate. Tracer Bullet, Willamette Valley, somewhat near Eugene.

Ok cause my room is one big open area.. Ill see if adding some walls fixes it.

($)

Well, welcome to The Pit Hugh. I think you are the only other Oregonian around here.

I currently live in Forest Grove, despite what the profile says.

Well, you can't have the profile tell the truth, we must be secretive-ish... spies everywhere... and we're the only two Oregonians, theoretically. :eek:

If you need more detail, HINT brushes are helpful, plus they're just good to have in general. They might not help a whole lot, but they could maybe free up 100 or so polies.

You should be so lucky! Yes, HINT brushes have their uses - I've even used one to fix a VIS error before - but in most situations they won't reduce your r_speeds at all. On the contrary, since they introduce more polygon splits, they may actually increase the r_speeds.

As TB has said, it basically comes down to VISblocking. Large, detailed areas just don't work in the HL engine, because there's no way to VISblock them.

Money Shot, the best advice someone can give you is:

1) post some screenshots of your contribution down in "EDITING" snarkpit has some very good stuff on r_speeds.

2) press ~ and type "gl_wireframe 2" this will give you some idea of where you have issues, it takes a abit to get your eyes around it all, but its good.

3) if wireframe is to confusing, load HL in software mode- press ~ again and type "r_drawflat 1" until recently, it was the best and most accurate method i knew to reduce r's by locating trouble spots. small shapes with many sides = HIGH R's

4) the editing section will encourage you to catch up on all the scoop SP has to offer, you have been here long enuff to have seen us talk about r_speeds and their damage, now you will have to retain some of what you read :smile:

good luck, and post those screens for us :wink:

Ok, my map in-progress, I've recessed the red lights as suggested and toned them down a bit. My problem however remains, as it is, my map is a tiny bit too big and has four exits (marked with pink crosses). If I add the section I currently want it will link the exits shown on the right of the final pic via a room with stairway and waterfall. This however will further increase the size of my area, in short, what shall I do?

Anyway, as you can see r_speeds are fine and I've not even optimised anything yet, I'll probably add more detail on the second pass when I see what other people have done. Texture usage isn't too bad either as I'm only using about 12, excluding water texture. On to the pictures :

some advice schmung,

the architecture difference between floors, walls and ceilings is off, try to add something to that big flat plain of a floor.. you have a good idea in pic#3, try that maybe..

otherwise, without going inside, i cannot say much more..

i have a suggestion guys, you might seal your respective areas and send the bsp to some outside influences, as if it were a real map and get some feedback..

but keep in mind, meshing areas from many sources will give unique problems, mostly in HOW people place their solids, and line of sight issues :sad:

just another thought.

[edit] look in "generic" there are much better red lights than those you used.. :wink:

OK, to address what people have said about this shot and the previous one, I recessed the lights, even though I'm not sure it looks better, but I'll bow to the experience of others here. I think I'll leave this is as-is for now, depending on the answer to my query about the size of it. I intend to add more detail and tweak a lot more when I see what my bit is connected too and then try and add some continuity. Plus, I'll then have a better idea of total r_speeds and things.

If anyone wants to take a look then PM me and I'll give you the BSP, but at present it's not much more than you see with the screens, since I'm not building up the second section untill I know it's safe to do so.

I wouldn't worry if it's a bit big Schmung. I believe we dropped the hard size limit. you don't have much detail yet, but your r's seem quite manageable so you should be okay with it.

Schmung, you can add in more detail. As well, if you feel its pretty done, send me the .RMF (via PM). I wont be able to look at it tonight though, so it'll have to wait until tomorow.

Here is My BSP, LAVA WAD and PTS and LOG files for Smelter section. All zipped up, please download and check it out.. maybe you all can help me fix it. maybe I have too much going on.. Its been 18 hours and it still has not comiled, but I am allowing it to continue, because I want to get some screen shots. And My area is so differant than everyone elses, I may have to go back and change it to blend more, and maybe have less in it.

DOWNLOAD ME

($)

Its doing somethig, I just checked my Task Manager, and its going from 90-98 on the hlvis and Hammer is useing pretty much everything else. The window is stuck on LeafThread, so I am assuming that I may need to cut some stuff.

What is a NULL Texture, is Blue the null texture, or would the texture be called NULL? let me know please..

($)

Found a NULL Texture and added it, and it helped some.. trying to compile now.. with out a leak to see how long it takes.. been 30 mins and still compiling.. I am getting a tad frustrated now.

Blue texture is rendered transparent, NULL isn't rendered at all. Say you put a box in your map that was a func_illusionary texture was NULL. Not only would you not be able to see or touch the block, but it wouldn't add any poly, unlike a similar box covered in blue.

Not only it not rendered, it doesnt even exist in the bsp.

I havn't DLed your map yet, but what you are seeing in vis is the result of large open areas. look at my tut on netvis http://www.snarkpit.com/editing.php?page=tutorials&id=20 if you have a home LAN and want to reduce those times.

Okay, I glanced through your rmf, and I see that you have:

a. detailed brushwork

b. a large area with absolutly no visblocking.

this combination will bring hlvis to it's knees. it is likely that your r_speeds will be acceptable in the end, but you must be prepared for monstrous complie times. my experience has been that hlvis times go up roughly with the square of the average area size, not the size of the map as a whole.

Okay, here are some pics Money.













I don't have time to comment right now, but I bet some of our fellow pitcrew members will have somthing to add.