Whatever happened to Orpheus?

The fun behind mapping for HL1 was seeing how much you could push the engine while still keeping it all running at a decent speed (god bless r_speeds!). With HL2, it's just not there for me - there's no real challenge.

I used to enjoy mapping through thinking up ideas that wouldn't be possible, and trying to cram them into creaky ol' HL1. Some weren't successful, others were.

Yak is right though. The more spangly the engines get, the more time is required to create a decent original map - which pushes us amateur mappers further away. I don't see myself mapping again for a very long time.

Oh, and come on back Orph - 'tis quiet here without you and your nappies :wink:

---

You Got To Get Through What You've Got To Go Through To Get What You Want But You Got To Know What You Want To Get Through What You Got To Go Through

did it ever occur to any of you guys that maybe he was just sick and tired of the whole scene? not only is hl2 mapping pretty much in the crapper for those of us who dont have the time to dedicate to it on the level needed, but the general tone of this forum, which at one time was my absolute favorite, has diminished in such a fashion that it is starting to resemble many other low budget, unkept, free-for-all forums out there....sorry lep, i still love yer site, yer the best man. but the fact remains, its changed dramatically....ive learned more here than on any other site on the net, and you all have no idea how it pains me to say these things....but facts are facts....feel free to give me yer best floggings, im ready....

tip of the hat to Orpheus....you guys dont know how good you had it with him here, as well as the others who have bid a silent, yet profound exit....

peace....

Doc Brasso... :dodgy:

Your probably right, though im not the one to say that i geuss.

---

RUST Gamedesign
pepper design

The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee.

I miss Orph. I miss the comraderie, too, Dr. B.

---

I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

I feel so upset. You make it sound like i'm ruining your community :sad: :sad:

I'm sick and f**king tired of ppl complaining about not having enough
"time to dedicate to it on the level needed" crap. OR that the HL2
engine makes it too hard for beginning mappers to start or that HL2 is
SOOOOOOOOOO uninspiring...

Firstly: Level Needed. Exactly WHAT LEVEL do we NEED to be at? Is that
level DIFFERENT from HL1? Not all maps have to have spiffy bumpmaps. So
what if the map doesn't look as nice as the maps did in HL2.
Thats like ppl who after the DVD medium was released, COULDN'T watch
VHS anymore. I have JUST as much fun DMing in a fun killbox (oh my god
I said killbox) as I do DMing in a highly intriquite and lush
environment. All maps can be fun as long as the mapper had fun making
it. I know that satement is highy questionable, but I have had probably
the more fun on "crappily made" maps than those maps that think their
s**t don't stink.

Second: Hammer is now harder to use and/or it seems too much of a task
with the new toolset....and that because you were awesome BEFORE but
now its not worth it to re-learn everything. GODAMN! Someone shoot me
NOW. HAMMER is the EXACT GODAMN same. Anything you could do in
Hammer before, you could do now, with only a few differences:

A. MultiManagers. Who gives a s**t that they
are gone. the new system is MUCH better, and easier than MMs. The
in/out wat of coding sequences should take about 10 minutes of messing
arond before you got it all figured out.

B. Textures. I will admit, the hardest thing
to learn wil be textures. There are some tutorials though (most of which are pretty confusing), and it is how I
learned. If ANYONE needs help with textures and won't map because they
have a problem with textures, just PM or email me or anyone else here
who knows and we'll be glad to help.

C. Ladders. There is a new system with
ladders, but you know what? Who CARES! You can still use the old
"sticky ladder system" which is better 90% of the time anyway.

You don't have to be able to make models to make a map! Just map and
forget about modeling! Worry about that later after you pump out
a couple of maps!

Third: HL2/HL2 texture set/HL2 map pack is uninspiring. Oh please.
Again, anything you could think up with HL1 to implement, you STILL
CAN! Except NOW, you can do MORE! You don't HAVE to learn all the
fun HL2 engine stuff...just stick to what you would map for HL1! And if
you are new, don/'t learn to tricky stuff if you dont want to
(cubemaps, how to make textures, etc). Just make some fun maps
(square rooms, a couple of doorways and when your curiosity gets the
best of you, take a day and learn that s**t! HL2 is TWICE as inspiring!
You can do all you could before, and, only if you feel the need to, you
can learn more experinced stuff to do more! I admit, the texture set may be lame,
and I (as most of you may know) am sick of the broken down city maps
with worn out houses.....so guess what! Make some new godamn texures!
And again, if you DON'T know to...then ASK! I myself (and I'm sure others)
are more than glad to help out as much as possible with making
textures/models/ etc.

I am not trying to single anyone out by making these statements and
they are directed at no one in particular. your post, Doc, just sent me
into orbit. :wink:

Oh yeah, and come back mOrpheus

Maybe some people have more fun when the map they're making also looks good? :wink:

Hammer is mostly the same, mapping is not. Details are now done with
modelling a lot more. Most of us didn't like over-used prefabs in the
HL times, now it's the same with the standard prop-model set. That's
why I want to model. It's not going to hold me back, but in order to
express myself, I want to learn it. I don't like pumping out maps that
I don't feel right about, like City17_6428_v2.5 or canal_1001.

Textures aren't hard to create, imho. Making them look good can be,
though. Personally I think modelling takes more time as it requires you
to learn working with a new program.

Anyway, mapping is just changing, and with newer engines it's going to
take more time to maintain a certain quality level. Sure, basic mapping
is still quite easy, due to the texture set maps often look better much
easier. But to make a map stand out, it takes more time to do all the
content yourself (or ask a friend). Also, since every map instantly
looks good (well, the textures and models do), I can understand a lot
of people loose interest. They were good mappers and nowadays suddenly
everyone can do the same...

Actually, I just have little time right now. I lost interest a bit
after HL2 came out but now I'm over it somewhat. It's just a lack of
time now. :smile:

---

Create-ivity - a game development blog

<DIV class=quotetitle>? posted by French Toast</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetitle> </DIV>
<DIV class=quotetitle>
<DIV style="BORDER-RIGHT: red 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: red 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: red 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: red 1px solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #151515">I feel so upset. You make it sound like i'm ruining your community :sad: :sad: </DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=quotetitle> </DIV>
<DIV class=quotetitle>toasty toasty toasty......stop it stop it......this set of comments was in no way directed at you man, as a matter of fact, yer one of the few newer members that i have absolutely no problem with.....for a kid, yer pretty damn smart, good sense of humor (which will get you through life with a smile) and fairly respectful and considerate from what i can tell....s**t, any 14 year old who digs zeppelin the way i did, well.... </DIV>
<DIV class=quotetitle> </DIV>
<DIV class=quotetitle>now mr tree.....for not singling anyone out, you did a fair job of locating me.... :wink: </DIV>
<DIV class=quotetitle>shall we take it from the top?</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetitle> </DIV>
<DIV class=quotetitle>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? posted by Dark Tree</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>I'm sick and f**king tired of ppl complaining about not having enough "time to dedicate to it on the level needed" crap. OR that the HL2 engine makes it too hard for beginning mappers to start or that HL2 is SOOOOOOOOOO uninspiring</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext> </DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>where to start....</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>lets see....yer what? a student? well hells bells.....study and party....hmm...oh yeah, and map. aparently you have time to sit and soak up all the necessary knowledge to use hammer with hl2 that you can look down upon those with 2 jobs, families to support, mega bills to pay, grass to mow, vehicles to keep up, etc etc etc......whats the longest duration of time youve spent building a map?....oh yeah, and you had to figure out all those little quirks in hl1 mapping all by yerself, without the assistance of a tutorial or helpers....hmm.</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>do you have the time to make all yer own textures? thw knowledge? the wherewithall? hmm.....</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>ya know what? screw it. yer a saint. saint darktree, patron saint of the map.</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>excuse me, but its exaclty that kind of attitude, and presentation, let alone the unmittigated gall, that helps drive away the ones that are/were the best. bottom line, you dont know yer ass from a bucket, and yer work proves it. if you can settle for what youve built, then that shows yer character.....enjoy yerself. </DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>sorry guys, but i can no longer take it. the attitude is killing me....i guess you had to be around for the "glory days" of hl mapping to understand. its been fun while it lasted....good luck all, and give em hell.....peace.</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>Doc Brasso</DIV></DIV>

Sorry, Dark Tree - how many HL2 maps have you released?

The intricacy of the art and the know-how required to produce it increased drastically between Half-Life and its sequel; and emulating, if not topping, the level of detail exhibited in the game became drastically more difficult. Simple concept.

---

[Im_invisible] "I would suck a man off, but only for sustenance."

heh , the art world only gets harder my friends. The realists thought
they had it tough when the photograph came out , well what about the
surrealists when computer generated images came out ;p.

All in all , i think its harder yet worth the work . hl1 was good fun though.

And dark , if you can make it better without subtracting from gameplay
then do it , but remember not all peices are even meant to be played.

orph was one of the most sophisticated ones here =l

keef?

---

.else /me ~kill you
www.arclan.net

Captain P said:
Maybe some people have more fun when the map they're making also looks good? :wink:

Hammer is mostly the same, mapping is not. Details are now done with modelling a lot more. Most of us didn't like over-used prefabs in the HL times, now it's the same with the standard prop-model set. That's why I want to model. It's not going to hold me back, but in order to express myself, I want to learn it. I don't like pumping out maps that I don't feel right about, like City17_6428_v2.5 or canal_1001.

Textures aren't hard to create, imho. Making them look good can be, though. Personally I think modelling takes more time as it requires you to learn working with a new program.

Anyway, mapping is just changing, and with newer engines it's going to take more time to maintain a certain quality level. Sure, basic mapping is still quite easy, due to the texture set maps often look better much easier. But to make a map stand out, it takes more time to do all the content yourself (or ask a friend). Also, since every map instantly looks good (well, the textures and models do), I can understand a lot of people loose interest. They were good mappers and nowadays suddenly everyone can do the same...

agreed. i think i spent more time learning and implementing -only- 2 aspects of the new material system (bump/normal maps and shaders), than spending time on any aspect of hl1 mapping. Apart from learning it ofcourse.

Ofcourse i could not have bothered, but there's a drive to make something that ppl cant reproduce instantly. Dark Tree is right in saying that you can still achieve this to some extent with awesome architecture and lighting, but HL2 can offer more than that, if you have the time, energy and motivation. And we feel compelled to do so cause the possibilities are there

You could say progress shot itself in the foot in a way. It reached us hella pretty effects and loads of possibilities, but at the same time the input required to achieve them is often too much for us. Yet it's unavoidable: more and more prettyness and possibilities require more and more input and learning.

---

These words are my diaries screaming out loud

BlisTer said:
you can still achieve this to some extent with awesome architecture and
lighting, but HL2 can offer more than that, if you have the time,
energy and motivation. And we feel compelled to do so cause the possibilities are there

That is all that I was saying.

Cassius said:
Sorry, Dark Tree - how many HL2 maps have you released?

Zero. Thanks for checking my profile :wink: . And why haven't I released
any? They take too damn long. I don't have as much time as I would like
to DO as much as I would like.

Doc Brasso, I really wasn't trying to single you out, and I shouldn't
have used a direct quote. I just don't want people to quit because it
is too hard.
I am a student,
with mega bills, with 2 jobs, with a girlfriend (not quite a family),
and I do have a lawn to mow. You nailed me on the head. I just don't
want folks to quit mapping! I do not profess to be a mapping saint!
God! you make me sound like I'm so full of myself! My maps get an
average rating of what....6? You also said: "you had to figure out all
those little quirks in hl1 mapping all by
yerself, without the assistance of a tutorial or helpers....hmm". I
obviously used tutorials (did you even read my whole post?) What does
that have anything to do with what I said? All I was talking about was
the difference between hl1 and hl2 mapping. It does take a long
time to start....and in the 3 years I've been mapping, I probably only
know half of the stuff I should just about HL mapping! and as for being
satisfied with the quality of my 2 dms, yes, I am satisfied! My SP
coulda been better, but it was decent enough (for me.)

Anyway, sorry to have offended. Honostly.

Dark Tree said:
I'm sick and f**king tired of ppl complaining about not having enough "time to dedicate to it on the level needed" crap.

[quote=Dark Tree]And why haven't I released any? They take too damn long.[/quote]Nice.

I am working on a map. I didn't quit! I was referring to ppl who were
quitting because they take too long!

The only reason you are posting is
to try to start a flame war and catch me up in a lie or something. Why
is it you only post when you see something I said that pisses you off?
You remind me of Michael Moore, putting together quotes out of context
to prove a point that doesn't exist.

I don't dislike you. <3

I don't dislike you either. Lets make out.

<div class="quotetitle">sorry guys, but i can no longer take it.
the attitude is killing me....i guess you had to be around for the
"glory days" of hl mapping to understand. its been fun while it
lasted....good luck all, and give em hell.....peace.

</div> I agree completely. No offence to the new mappers out there, but I
can't stands the noobs no more. With the release of HL2 it seems
Half-Life mapping has gone down the s**tter. I still enjoy mapping for
it, but I no longer enjoy participating in the community that has
mutated since its release.

There are still a lot of good people out there, and here, but a
majority of the community no longer cares about the key ideals that
made HL mapping great. Creativity, originality and quality were things
that all mappers aspired to achieve, and they did so through communitys
of like minded individuals, who valued the opinions of those who had
more experience and skill. But it wasn't about superiority, it was
about mutual respect and the goal of becoming better.

These days 90% of maps are complete rubbish, or are released at a point
far from completion. The worst thing is that these same mappers don't
listen to or want advice from the community they are supposed to be
part of. They think their work is hot s**t and will savagely attack
anyone who comments otherwise. This is crazy, the point of community is
to gain the opinions and advice of others, not gain unwarranted praise
and admiration. If thats what they want then they should form a cult.

What is equally worse is when people criticise the work of others and
put them down for having difficulties, when they themselves haven't
even bothered to put in the effort to create something themselves. All
communitys seem to have an ever increasing number of people like this,
and they seem to be crushing the new mappers who want to make something
better.

I'll be taking the cue from some of the other longtime members of this
site by taking a break from the SnarkPit's once hallowed halls.
Hopefully the situation will improve. Adios Amigo's.

---

Ham and Jam Contributor
http://www.hamandjam.org

'Get your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty ape!'

Dark Tree said:
Third: HL2/HL2 texture set/HL2 map pack is uninspiring. Oh please.....

....I admit, the texture set may be lame

Aside from the one Cassius already pulled you up on, are there any other contradicting statements you wish to imbue upon us, with your wisdom of (checks profile) three completed HL1 killbox style levels?

Sorry, but if you're going to mouth off as strongly as you did, you better have the background to backup your claims.

Dark Tree said:
Not all maps have to have spiffy bumpmaps. So what if the map doesn't look as nice as the maps did in HL2....I have JUST as much fun DMing in a fun killbox (oh my god I said killbox) as I do DMing in a highly intriquite and lush environment.

...Whereas I don't want to drop ?100s on an Ati 850XT PE to be playing randomly-strewn-together-brushes-ala-dm_killbox garbage that took someone half an hour to create, when the engine is capable of this.

<div><div><div><div>[quote=keved]three completed HL1 killbox style levels[/quote]

3 KillBox style levels? Thanks, but Brown is anything BUT a killbox.
And my SP is a 4-map dungeon-crawl style map. The only "killbox style"
map I created was the large cylindrical brainf**k dm.

keved said:
Sorry, but if you're going to mouth off as strongly as you
did, you better have the background to backup your claims.

I already apologized. Sheesh!

keved said:

Dark Tree said:
Third: HL2/HL2 texture set/HL2 map pack is uninspiring. Oh please.....
....I admit, the texture set may be lame

What? I said it was lame. Not uninspiring. I use what I can from the
included tex's and it inspires me to make new textures! Inpsiration can
be found in strange places...

My main computer is f**ked and I made a bad decision to post what I
did. The heart of the message wasn't meant to be hurtful, but
helpful.....I was desperate not to lose some of the mappers who might
quit by offering myself to give helpers on how to make textures, etc.
for hl2 who were thinking about leaving, instead my message got picked
apart and thrashed. I offered twice in that first post to help people
with stuff in case they were thinking about quitting. I offer to host
files for people who can't find a host anywhere else! I try to help
this community as much as I can, but apparently many think differently.</div></div>

keved said:
I don't want to drop ?100s on an Ati 850XT PE to be playing
randomly-strewn-together-brushes-ala-dm_killbox garbage that took
someone half an hour to create, when the engine is capable of this.

Yes I know. The engine can create some unparalleled beauty, but, if the
task seems too high at first, I would just want ppl to take it one step
at a time (instead of saying it's too hard and quitting.)

Believe it or not, some people actually enjoy low budget movies just as
much as the multi-million dollar hollywood productions...

</div></div>

I'm not arguing with any of the HL2 mapping points made here, but perhaps the "time" isn't really that obvious.

HL2 hasn't been out for a year yet, not to mention DM ... dod isn't released yet (And it is looking quite impressive). It just sounds like the current level of maps for hl2 is being compared to the final level of maps for hl1 ... which is ridiculous. You guys had five years on that engine, and most maps started getting good around the second to third year and on.

I guess, give it time, once you have a well defined outlook on the game's limitations, believe me, you'll find ways to make it "amazing" again. There are already many limitations that could be tackled (making water on a different plane through the use of shaders, for example)

Honestly, when the hl1 engine wasn't "cutting it" you began making custom content. Is this really that different? I suppose it's frustrating because you're now forced to learn things you didn't want to do before (modeling, for example)

But ... tough. I know game design will get easier in the next few years though, since editors are becoming not just "map" editors, but game editors. Where you can change almost anything that's in the game ... will that be too much to deal with?

To be honest, the hl2 engine is still pretty simplistic when it comes to mapping ... and on the texture front ... when you couldn't find exactly what you wanted in other engines, did you bitch and whine? No, most likely you made your own texture that you needed ... or found it online, but that comes back to the age of this game.

There's just not enough content floating around yet.

I think, honestly, having other mods come out will help. Because ... really ... weren't those the only things that really showed you that the hl1 engine could be pushed?

As for the quality of the forums lately ... I'm going to have to agree. But, honestly, if you want to make it better around here, especially in the mapping department, get creative.

It'd be pretty awesome to see a day/night cycle that runs well online. Or what about map based objective-team play? There's a slew of new things you could utilize the engine for ...

I'm sure not many of you would agree.

---

Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

Dark Tree said:
The heart of the message wasn't meant to be hurtful, but helpful

<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Fair enough mate, sorry. :smile: I guess it didn't help, though, that your first words were "I'm sick and f**king tired" when responding to people here who have been around the HL scene for years and may have the credentials to back up their reasoning.
<DIV>

Dark Tree said:
Yes I know. The engine can create some unparalleled beauty, but, if the task seems too high at first, I would just want ppl to take it one step at a time (instead of saying it's too hard and quitting.)

</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Absolutely, but this is the problem that people highlighted earlier and you seemed to disagree with; the much increased length of time it now takes to create quality levels is putting off beginners from making any progress from their initial efforts.

Dark Tree said:
Believe it or not, some people actually enjoy low budget movies just as much as the multi-million dollar hollywood productions...

</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Sure, I'm not a big fan of multi-million dollar productions myself, though low budget movie productions can be of the quality of Taxi Driver etc etc! Low budget productions in movies can still very much feature talented and dedicated people.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>There isn't a "low budget" comparison for level creating, though. Levels are low quality because the author either doesn't have the ability or can't be bothered putting the effort in to strive for more quality.That some people enjoy playing levels like dm_killbox is entirely due to Valve's game mechanics being fun to use (as Garry's mod shows), not anything to do with the level itself.</DIV></DIV>

Back for a moment :razz:

As for the quality of the forums lately ... I'm going to
have to agree. But, honestly, if you want to make it better around
here, especially in the mapping department, get creative.

I'd be happy to kick-start the review system again here at the
Snarkpit, if I could make some changes to the review setup. Primarily
get rid of custom reviews and restrict them to a certain few members
who know what they are talking about.

That way we could work to rebuild the SnarkPits long lost reputation of
being a place to get great reviews. Also it would encourage some of the
better mappers in other communities to frequent here as well,
re-establishing the core group of experienced mappers who can offer
advice. Map reviews are something I really miss about the SnarkPit, and
its something that drew me here initially. It's also something that
seems to be missing from the community in general.

I can garuntee it would also draw back some of the old members who
aren't here at the moment, particularly if we can work to establish
some kind of respect system like in the old days. It's the attitude of
many new members that drove away the regulars. I know some might
consider it elitest, but we need to maintain some level of quality in
members if we want to keep the Pit running.

Anyway, thats my two cents. I'd be happy to set up something like this
again, if Lep and the admins are willing to give me some leeway how I
run it. Nothing offensive though, no Simon Cowell type commentary :smile: .

EDIT: This would also allow for mappers to gain reasonably impartial
and accurate commentary, which does not always happen when maps are
posted on forums.

---

Ham and Jam Contributor
http://www.hamandjam.org

'Get your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty ape!'

I agree: a level of 'elitism' needs to be maintained in order to stay
the quality site Snarkpit once was. This is a great concept: reviews,
map show-offs, community talk with other mappers to share insight and
all that... I don't see that around a lot.

A resctricted review system sounds good. There's still quite some
mappers who know their trade but aren't actively mapping anymore, so
perhaps some of them will still enjoy giving some reviews... :smile:

And yeah, mappers attract mappers so some activity here will definitely pull some people over, methinks.

---

Create-ivity - a game development blog

smitty, i think thats a helluvan idea.....orph tried it, with shackles, and made it work well,,,,,,but beware, ye shall be bestowed with furious anger...

DT, peace. i think all the points that needed to be made have been made, so use the info at yer discretion. this is my favorie sight still, even if i dont have the time i'd like to spend.....

in the words of bob dylan, "the times they are a' changin'... "

Doc B... :dodgy:

I know what you mean Doc :biggrin: , Orph actually talked to me about doing
some reviews at one point, but I didn't have time to spare. I still
don't have time to spare, but if people are willing to give it a go,
maybe if some of the oldies lend a hand, I'm sure that I could make the
time. Particularly if its to restore at least some of the Pit's former
glory.

---

Ham and Jam Contributor
http://www.hamandjam.org

'Get your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty ape!'

Mhh, maybe I could do some, though I don't know if you guys would classify me for it.

Anyway, I'm in for some action. Yeah, most of my time goes to school but I still have some left...

---

Create-ivity - a game development blog

i think you guys hit the nail on the head. If that would be put into action that would be great.

mappers are far more motivated when they know ppl will actually have a look at their creation, let alone review it.

It's an upward spiral really, the more quality maps that get showed, the more other mappers that are willing to be part of that, or do better. positive competition and rivalery. (that shot of surface tension had me itching)

The downside with restricting reviewers is that, if they havent got time, no reviews get done. Capt. P, imo you would do great reviews.

about the newer members: it saddens me that the old members get driven off by the newer. its like fleeing from a place that you helped being great. Though i know it takes a certain personality to stand ground and defend it. IMO lamers were always pooring in, there just seem to be fewer strong personalities nowadays to show them how to behave.

---

These words are my diaries screaming out loud

WE WANT ORPH! WE WANT ORPH! WE WANT ORPH!

---

''Everyone wades in s**t until they're competent enough to walk on it. Jesus style.''
Dystopia - Empires

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Agent Smith</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quote:</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>
<DIV class=quotetitle>sorry guys, but i can no longer take it. the attitude is killing me....i guess you had to be around for the "glory days" of hl mapping to understand. its been fun while it lasted....good luck all, and give em hell.....peace. </DIV></DIV></DIV>

I'll be taking the cue from some of the other longtime members of this site by taking a break from the SnarkPit's once hallowed halls. Hopefully the situation will improve. Adios Amigo's.

</DIV></DIV>

God Damnit...

Keved, Sir, That screenshot that you linked to is all PROPS and some water.

The SnarkPit has become like America. IT was founded on GREAT ideas and principles where people had lots of freedoms and benefits. Once everyone started hearing about it, they sent us thier their tired, their poor, their huddled masses yearning to be free, Their wretched refuse In otherwords n00bs. The problem with such freedoms is that the more people that excercise them, the more it degrades the system they're in.

---

I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

Ho hum, methinks I'd be interested in getting back into mapping a bit...

I think the idea of someone whose opinion I trust (e.g. vets of the
pit) and not some yahoo who I have no idea who he is would make me more
seriously consider any suggetsions, or critisism they offer.

My biggest problem is coming up with a neat idea, and then actually
making it look like my idea. If I really plan it out I may be
able to do something...

Well, Toast. Look at the textures, and try to think of something really unexpected you can mke with it. I made a bunch of textures that blend wood and bricks and stone and tiles and rocks and then made a weird patchwork landscape. that sort of thing is just for fun, but it's good practice.

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I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

I cry tears at the loss of Orph and AS and others...

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Signature? What signature!?

As to the topic. When I first arrived, months before I posted, the first thing I did was dig through every topic that peaked my interest. The one thing i noticed above all else was, even if you guys disliked someone, you still took the time and energy necessary to assist them. That alone was my deciding factor for initially posting the first time.

I may not have posted here, but that by no means signifies my lack of posting elsewhere and for the most part, Snarkpit is leagues above your average internet site. My respect mounts daily for the members whom remain.

As for my thoughts, Orpheus falls into the category where you must eventually respect him. You may or may not give him much, but eventually you will. There are many personalities here. Some aggressive, some abrasive. Some considerate, and some down right abusive but most are a combination of all these types and thereby produce an atmosphere of comradre'.

I will not miss him, not because of his personality, but because of my timing. I was just not here in time to have an opinion of him.

I do however respect his contributions. You cannot begrudge those.

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There is no history until something happens, then there is.