The DoD:S thread

So I just pre-loaded DoD:S on my computer, as it looks so awesomely amazing, and it was a LAN party hit before.

I mostly just wanted to say that, and hear your thoughts as to the game
so far. I realize that there is not much to report so far,
as the game is not out, but when it's released hopefully we can talk
about it.

I really just wanted to say I pre-loaded it, but hey, what are your thoughts on it?

Screenshots?

There are some new ones down at www.halflife2.net.

So I just pre-loaded DoD:S on my computer, as it looks so awesomely amazing, and it was a LAN party hit before.

So have I. I managed to rip some stuff using GCF scape, but don't be tempted to rip everything into the sourcemods folder.

Anyway, I see they're charging almost 20$ for it. I don't think a MP-only MOD is worth that much.

A mod is a modification. A modification is a modification of a game,
including some of the origional games materials and probably based on
the gameplay of the origional game. DOD:S is not a modification. It's a
brand new game. How much did you pay for Battlefield2? UT2004? They
weren't single player games, they were multiplayer games and $20 for a
multiplayer game is cheap. Hearing people talk about how DOD:S should
be free cause it's a "mod" is incredibly annoying. It's not a mod, it's
a full game. And unless the gameplay has changed considerably, one of
the best multiplayer games around. Plus some of the best graphics I've
seen short of Quake 4 & UE3, I think that's definitely worth $20.

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-KingNic

-Slapping polygons together incoherently since 2000

Unless it's stand-alone (which I doubt since a quick inspection of the
dod.gcf and of several other folders tends to confirm this), DOD:S uses
HL2 data files
which haven't been replicated in the pack as to save disc space (not
everyone has a DVD-ROM). It even uses "old" HL2 props.As for the graphics, it's
just the HL2 engine but "coolafied" by some nice props and some shiny
materials. HDR is an update brought to the HL2 engine via Lost Coast,
not a particularity of DOD:S. And DOD:S is the first mod to use this
enhancement. The fact that it's being sold separately
doesn't make it less a mod than it is. Think of OPFOR, for instance.

I might be mistaking though... :/

And a friendly hint: "original". :wink:

I just watched a dozen or so movies of gameplay over at IGN.com and I
have to say it seems to play very much like the original DoD, but the
immersion level is much much higher. At one point in the videos
the Allies are capture the bridge in Anzio and I had this intense
feeling that I was watching a cinematic moment unfold before my
eyes. And then immediately after the capture two of the 3 were
cut down by a machine gun, and I swear I actually felt bad for
them. It was that immersive!

I've always loved DoD for the atmosphere and realism, and this is
something that I think shines through in the videos. The audio is
also amazing!

I'm looking forward to playing this game when I go home for Thanksgiving break.

well, hl2:bronze was 50... hl2:silver was 60... so if you spent the
extra 10 there, you've already gotten alot for your extra $10....

HL:S, DoD:S, Entire back order....

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Signature? What signature!?

Basically you were an idiot or a complete tight arse if you bought the
Bronze pack. An idiot if your now complaining you don't get DOD: Source
for free, when it was clearly stated that you wouldn't.

As far as DOD: Source goes I can't wait for it to be released. It's
going to be the release that really gets me going in Source mapping.
I've already got four map concepts planned out and ready for creation,
ones I started making in the original DOD. So essentially DOD: Source
is going to save the HL2 mapping/modding community as far as I can see,
because its not another HL2 styled/type mod.

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Ham and Jam Contributor
http://www.hamandjam.org

'Get your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty ape!'

I think I'm going to write valve. Seriously, I bought the Collectors Edition, and I pre-ordered it and payed for it before valve released the package specs. They also only explicitly said that the bronze edition it the only package to not come with it.

I think, honestly, it's pretty unfair, taking that I payed 80, nonrefundable, pre-order dollars, while I got some POS shirt, paying $10 more would get you a hat and books and s**t, and paying $20 less would get you about $40 in software. It was a cheap shot to try to screw Vivendi, but, the consumer is really the who got screwed on this, specifically. At least, if they had made it optional between CS:S and DOD:S when it came out or something.

A very poor business move, I mean ... personally, I paid for the damn thing in 2003 then learned of the CE and shelled out the extra amount, but at that point, I could get that $55 back to buy the steam packages. So ... that was retarded.

But, DoD:S does look great. Needless to say, I'm spending yet another $20 for it, when I've already shelled out $80 for this thing. (Keep in mind, that would make it so I'd have to pay $100 to get less then people who paid $90)

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

well im mainly a css player but i also have a hobby in ww2..thats y i bought it n i think it looks good. Co mpaired to dod its more realistic instead of square handed men running about and having big crosshairs whcih frankly you cant hit nething with..

Basically you were an idiot or a complete tight arse if you bought the
Bronze pack. An idiot if your now complaining you don't get DOD: Source
for free, when it was clearly stated that you wouldn't.

I for one have the retail version. I'm looking at the box right now and nowhere does it say ANYTHING about not getting DOD:S.

KingNic UT2k4 and BF2 don't rely soley on another engine with no modifications. Therefor DOD:S is in fact a modification [of game content]. Plus DOD:S doesn't have any single player.

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-[Better to be Honest than Kind]-

Well at east someone understands my point of view.

I'd change stores if I were you Crono - it doesn't strike me as right
to have to pay for a preorder, without the option of a refund, BEFORE
you even recieve the goods. Anywhere I've preordered in the UK give you
the option to cancel at any time, and you only pay when the game is in
your hands. On the odd occasion, for particularly anticipated games,
there is a small deposit that contributes to the overall cost, but
thats the worst I've come across.

Andrei - why WOULD it say you don't get DOD:S? All it has to do is NOT
say you get it. It was made clear before the game came out what was
included in each package and the bronze/retail packages contained only
HL2 and CS:S. You simply cannot expect to get something for free that
other people specifically paid more to recieve.

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[img]http://card.mygamercard.net/sig/Default/reno84.png[/img]
Designer @ Haiku Interactive | ReNo-vation.net

Yeah ... EBGames are bastards, specifically the EBX store at the mall. And, you especially can't remove pre-orders if you ordered it online. Like, you have to haggle with them. Since you can't remove a pre-order off your account after it's processed. (could be months before the product actually comes out)

Actually, they never addressed the "DoD:S-retail" thing. They never said, "None of the retail copies will have access to it", while, in all of the steam copies they said if it did come with it or not ... which is why it was confusing. Not to mention, the CE copy was/is $20 more then the Silver package on steam. The silver package gets an assload more, that's for damn sure.

And there's like nowhere else to pre-order here, really. Just the gamestop chain. There's like Best Buy and crap ... but ... bleh.

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

The only package you could have found at the moment were retail ones.
No-one could have anticipated back then that VALVe were planning to
release mods which require packages that weren't even announced at the time.
Or at least that's how the situation was in the armpit of the world...
:sad:

As for the DOD:S thing...it was never pointed out that you wouldn't have access to upcoming mods with retail punkt.

[edit]

Oh, sorry, Crono's relpy came before I pressed submit.

Man, I want to play it noooooooow :sad:

KingNic UT2k4 and BF2 don't rely soley on another engine with no
modifications. Therefor DOD:S is in fact a modification [of game
content]. Plus DOD:S doesn't have any single player.

Seems like here isn't the only place discussing the ins and outs of the "mod" definition...

http://www.penny-arcade.com

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[img]http://card.mygamercard.net/sig/Default/reno84.png[/img]
Designer @ Haiku Interactive | ReNo-vation.net

One thing:

I didnt hear anyone whining about CS:S

i mean, it IS a modification, still its included in the hl2 game, and i already think people get more for the prize of the bronze package then you would get with other games. I dont think ANYONE has the right to complain, nobody forced you to buy a certain package, unseless you got proof of Gabe Newell pointing a gun at your head.

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RUST Gamedesign
pepper design

The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee.

Valve are a bunch of fools, I have no respect for them at all as game developers.

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-[Better to be Honest than Kind]-

Why is that?

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RUST Gamedesign
pepper design

The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee.

Valve are a bunch of fools, I have no respect for them at all as game developers.

Well I agree that they made a few mistakes...like , oh, I dunno, the not-pointing-out-that-you-wouldn't-have-access-to-upcoming-mods-with-retail problem, for instance. <span style="color: lightblue;">"Fools"</span><span style="color: lightblue;"> is a little harsh though.</span>

And why "as game devs" when the thing that sucked and still continues to suck is the distribution?

I don't think that you can really whine about Valve. They make
their mistakes, but you have to keep in mind they're doing really damn
well and advancing the industry.

First off, the guys made Half-Life/HL2. Enough said about that.

Secondly, they've created a huge community, with easy modibility which helps promote the game.

Thirdly, they did Steam. Bitch as you will, it really is an amazing program which helps keep everyone on the same page.

I, as you, disagree with some of their moves, but I respect them as intelligent people.

Those of you who ran steam this evening probably noticed a neat little
update under the form of HDR. It's full of bugs, of course, but at
least it looks cool. See for yourselves. And this is only the tip of
the iceberg.

/me drools.

Andrei, can you point out what I'm supposed to be seeing? I can't make out what's so great about those two shots...

The most noticable difference is the floor. Obviously, the bottom shot is with HDR.

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

Actually, it looks more like the bottom shot is just with normal/cube maps on the floor to me. It doesnt look all that special to me.

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"If you talk at all during this lesson, you have detention. Do you understand?"

• My yr11 Economics teacher

Like I said, it's the tip of the iceberg. I was just pointing out the
immediate effect of this new feature on a map not designed with/for HDR.

45 screenshots, and 14 videos at the bottom of this review.

Man, I can't wait!

/me likes but is worried about the FPS

Check out the new stuff down at www.halflife2.net, looks pretty damn sexy!

This looks almost photo realistic:



Can you imagine how the next generation of game engines will look like?

Wait ... by looking at those greenbars over the other player icons in the overview ... it looks like you can see their health.

That does look good ... but it doesn't look photorealistic .... yet. Honestly, DoD looks more 'fake' then hl2. At least, that's what it looks like from screens and videos I've seen. But it does look good.

I'd like to see what they plan on doing for some night maps.

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

Indeed it does look like you can see their health, however one would assume that those are allied soldiers...

I hope!

It does not look photorealistic, but still damn sexy! The
reflectiveness on those rocks really adds a whole new element (methinks
that's the HDR at work, correct me if I'm wrong)

Night maps would be interesting, yes, and I can't wait for dod_charlie!

Yeah, you can see the symbol of the side. Of course, if I remember properly (I haven't played DoD in awhile) you can't see the other side on your overview, only your team ... which makes sense, since it's suppose to be a deployed operation in war. If you could see your team members health ... man ... that'd make it completely different with medics and such. It'd be nice if they started making more modes for DoD, I believe they're adding an assault mode for source. But, what if there was a "command" or whatever mode, where there was a commander of your 'platoon', which could be determined by score or first come first serve (depending on how long the server has been going). Anyway, it would structure out rank and they'd basically have to give commands, and you'd have to follow them ... if they were logical of course ... and you'd get points based on your role and not just flag captures.

Like, if you were a medic, your score would be based on your healing average. If you were an MG it would depend on how many people you've gunned down and how many lives you've saved, so to speak. It could be calculated by using visual distance and whether the enemy is visible or not.

If you've got a machine gun, it would depend on how much you rush and when told to. So on and so fourth. I think it'd be really cool to force team-play. Likewise, a default in that mode should be a limit of 4 TKs within a certain amount of time (like if you kill someone it'll increment and then decrement once every couple of minutes or something, until reaching zero, of course)

Anyway, I'm just thinking out ... typing.

Yeah, the lighting on the rocks is the HDR ... same with the shine on the water.

I know something I was planning for DoD, which I realized I couldn't do, was a day/night cycle map where the allies would have to barrow under the ground in places. Not terribly realistic, but awesome nonetheless. I also had plans for an alarm system and generators being destroyable. Controllable spot lights, etc.

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

Myrk- said:
Valve are a bunch of fools, I have no respect for them at all as game developers.

Amen.

"September 23rd"

bulls**t...

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I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

Get over it, if you hate them, hate them somewhere else.

Indeed, Crono, some way of forcing teamplay would be awesome in
DoD. It's already a good game for that, what with certain flags
needing 2 people and such. That makes it a good LAN game, where
you have to talk with eachother.

I agree with arranging them into platoons, or squads, and having a
squad leader (woah, BF2 anyone?). I doubt the whole "Gunner
getting points by saving ass" idea would work, it would be difficult to
implement and get right, methinks.

I can't wait to set up my MG whever I want. That's got to be the best upgrade of the whole game!

Not really ... it would add a higher detrimental value to their score calculation if someone on their team gets killed in their site. Also, it could be weighed against how many people the do save and gun down. Hell it could also be weighed against how many people are rushing them.
It can be done. I can imagine several ways to do it right now (based on vis calculations)

Also, with different modes comes different capabilities of the mod. That's the reason why you can't use a FFA map in ASSAULT mode. It'd have special entities. Something to make that even easier is to mark areas, kind of like portals, like while in that leaf it will count axis and allies that enter and exit that area. And, of course, the engine already determines which way you're facing and all that stuff.

It can be done.

Hell it could even calculate the probability of you being able to do the task (grading you easily if it is an easy path, for example). It could use frequency of the area traveled ... how many people on your side have been killed there ... even the amount of cross fire that's going on at the moment.

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

French Toast said:
Get over it, if you hate them, hate them somewhere else.

You're all about people's rights and freedoms 'til I say something you disagree with. Dude, I think Valve has buggered it up. And I don't like them for it. So i'm saying this to you, French Toast: If Valve is so great, prove it to me and I'll admit that I'm wrong. Or even if you can tell me good reasons why they DON'T suck. Okay? instead of being curmudgeonly and just telling ppl to leave, tell them why you disagree with them.

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I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

Valve are maek gud gamess.

Crono: Sounds too complicated to balance or implement. How would the
game know if people are "rushing you" - or if you specifically try to
cover someone or help them? Short of telepathy, I can't imagine a
definitive solution. :smile:

Campaignjunkie said:
Valve are maek gud gamess.

I agree. Half-life and HL2 are great games. but the way they've conducted some of thier business seems no up to par on certain things. And, as always, I don't like steam because for some reason on my sustem, it takes up like 128MB of my resources... I also have some problems with the mapping setup, because the props and textures are really proprietary.

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I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

Because it's one thing they did poorly. They did something that was very selfish and deceitful. However, compared to other developers (EA) it's not that bad and they do make products that are good and well developed. Just because they release something that has troubles on certain configurations doesn't mean it's valve, as a wholes fault.

You can't control your employees completely. I just picked up an issue of the July/August IEEE journal. It had a nice article about "the threat from within" about people who while they're developing for a company will purposefully make code poorer then they're capable of. They'll make back doors ... files will suddenly "disappear" so on and so fourth. It's usually caused by anger, which is for all intensive purposes impossible to determine and look out for. Most of the major huge problems in most software is because of people who don't listen or people who're all to self important, however the current trend of "letting people go" and not fulfilling promises on the companies end has done nothing good.

It's fairly obvious that most everyone is in the mindset of personal gain now compared to 40 years ago, or so.

Anyway, with the whole valve thing: I respect them as developers. They make good games. They're fun. They'll be fun for a very long time. They made a revolutionary distribution system that cut ties with corporate thumb on their profits. But, like many companies they made mistakes. They got greedier, that's for sure. However, even with all of this, they're still developing things for free (HDR, lost coast) where as other companies would charge more on top of what you already paid for the little add ons.

I'm not saying they're perfect, I mean I listed my gripes, but, saying they're awful developers or something like that is pretty unfounded, because what they've developed is good. And before you flip off and rant about how HL2 has ridiculous standards, or even steam for that matter, look at other games that came out before it or right after it. Think of MoHPA for example, you pretty much can't play that on lower end hardware ... period. With HL2, it can be played on hardware all the way back to GF2 and 800Mhz processors. The only thing that really stays high is the ram requirement. (Changing it to dxlevel 7 will make everything run very smoothly) It's, quite honestly, one of the most scalable games I've seen. HL1 had more restrictions in some aspects. HL2 can be played low to run well or high to look fantastic.

On top of all this, they're strong believers in the mod community. However, then we come back to ... DoD was free and DoD:S isn't. (And I'm sure if DoD and CS was never free when valve picked them up they would have probably charged money). But, who knows?

CJ, it could work by checking the axis to allied ratio in an area and the percentage of people moving in what direction. Pretty simple actually. It would all just have to be coded very slick like so it could calculate all of this smoothly (I'm thinking just up the server spec requirements!) It all depends on the implementation, really. It could use the same style behind capturing a flag. Hell all of this could be used to build a stats system. Tell you how many chances you really have that you waste. It could also take HDR into account and tell whether or not you're "blinded" or whatever at the time. As long as any of this data is managed, which most of it is, you can use it in calculations. All of this is pretty simple calculations too, I think, division would be the most complex one. So, nothing too bad. It'd just require some more resources. Which would be easier to come by in the coming year.

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

I agree with you, except on one point. When you pointed out that the other games don't run on lower-end systems. Just like Valve couldn't be held accountable for the fact that thier product doesnt work on some configurations: other companies cannot be held accountable for thier product not working on low-end machines.

As games get better and more reaslistic, the engines have to keep track of more stuff, and more processing power is needed. You know that, i'm sure. So when a new game comes out like DOOM 3, how can they make it work on low-end machines?

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I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

See, there's a difference here though. The configurations that aren't working with valve games are small bugs which they fix and distribute. (I hope they check everything like they're suppose to, like a good software developer)

They also developed the game with low-end in mind. D3 is sort of scalable. Honestly ... all valve really did was make it so you can turn off all the shader information, compressed textures, etc.

As for D3, it can run on lower end machines ... kind of. HL2 is actually only slightly more scalable.

BUT, something we're not considering is the operating system requirements. You can't put XP on a machine if it's below 1Ghz (or something like that). So, that plays a role too.

What I was talking about MOH though ... my computer can barely run it and my stuff isn't even two years old. That's the kind of crap I'm talking about. Stuff that's made to run on the newest hardware only. FEAR is another game that's suppose to be scalable.

So, to answer your question, you don't make something work on lower machines ... you design it that way from the beginning.

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

You can run XP on machines as low as 333Mhz, (and maybe even lower, IDK) just FYI. coz we've had it done at work. But that's beside the point...

I don't know anything about the MOH game you're talking about.

As for OS requirements, it's so much cheaper for game companies to make it work for the most popular hardware and OS's than to make it work for EVERYTHING... which boils down to thier profit-dominated thinking again.

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I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

I don't know why I thought it was a 1Ghz mark ... I was thinking 133Mhz ... whoops. Never-mind there ... (for Christ sake, my laptop is only 233Mhz and I put XP on it. Okay, I really got confused for a moment there, obviously, I wonder why.)

I'm talking about Pacific Assault ... Battlefield 2 has some pretty high requirements too. Come to think of it, the second two Splinter Cell games were about the same. If they allowed the shader effects to be turned off Pandora tomorrow would run on MX cards, for example.

Obviously, develop for the most used product that you'd get the most profit off of, however, the other OS' are supposedly compatible. Well ... I wouldn't look at it like this, but I know it's the common ideology.

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

I really don't like valve forcing their updates on me when I don't want them (I have 56k so it takes ages to download). And even when I tick "Don't Update" sometimes it mysteriously becomes unticked.

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Reckless disregard for childrens well being, women and nothing but utter contempt for other cultures.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting ReNo</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>
It was made clear before the game came out what was included in each package and the bronze/retail packages contained only HL2 and CS:S. </DIV></DIV>

no it wasn't. i'd have done without the game alltogether if it had been made clear that the retail version was the same as the bronze pack.

even better though, if i did want to upgrade to silver/gold/whatever, i can't. according to steam, my 'bronze' package was purchased online, and only one online transaction (of hl2) per customer is allowed.

tbh, i'm coming round to myrk's way of thinking towards valve.

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i eat paint

I feel like all the bad blood between Valve and customers involves the Bronze / Silver package divide.

I mean, I bought the Silver package because I wanted DoD:S and I don't feel any enmity for Valve.