Why do YOU think its boring around here?

<div class="quote"><div class="quotetitle">? quoting Underdog:</div><div class="quotetext">No but you had a much smaller window of success with HL1.
Since 1,000 was the upper limit upon which true success was measured
against I feel that it was a bit harder to succeed with HL1 than HL2
ever will be. Another point is, you didn't have a bunch of pre-made
props to spice things up to take peoples minds off of boring
architecture.

</div></div>

I disagree. I think it was easier to make a relatively good looking map. Nowadays, people who make maps have to compete with what teams
of people at Valve have put out. There are so many elements of
the map that people have to be fluent in (displacements, props, 3D
skyboxes etc) and the custom content is now much harder to make.
I mean -- I tried my hardest to figure out how to make my own
materials... and I just couldn't figure it out. Before -- all you
had to do was import something into wally and there you go, instant
texture. The only thing you had to worry about was giving it the
right sound when its shot/hit.

With the complexity of HL2 and the overall visual quality and level of detail the bar has been set much higher. Good maps require hours upon hours more to detail and create a quality feeling.

Some people have adopted well to this new approach, and can still
create great looking maps. However, for those of us who can't
keep up, our shortcomings are much more evident. That's why it's
harder in my mind to map for HL2. You say that people should be
judged by the quality of the map relative to their ability. While
that's really nice of you and quite generous, I feel the reality is
that most people (including myself) judge the quality of a map relative
to the official ones.

Windows 98 said:
I think its because Orpheus isnt here to yell at us for making n00b killboxes :smile:

What is your fixation with Orpheus? About every third complaint from you has his name attached to it. God, to hear you talk he was the glue that binds.

@ Mr. Reno. You more less captured my intent. You not only reflected my thoughts, but in a way, corroborated my earlier post in this thread. There is a difference here. It may or may not be boring exactly, but something was lost. I for one hope we recapture some of it.

I disagree on one point. We have more than enough people mapping right this moment. What we are lacking is interaction within them. When was the last critique? The last review? When was the last anything?

Its not the lack of mapping members, its the lack of the rest of us.

---

There is no history until something happens, then there is.

I think it was easier to make a relatively good looking map. [...] There are so many elements of
the map that people have to be fluent in (displacements, props, 3D
skyboxes etc) and the custom content is now much harder to make. [...]

With the complexity of HL2 and the overall visual quality and level of detail the bar has been set much higher. Good maps require hours upon hours more to detail and create a quality feeling.

Exactly my point. Well said, sir :smile: .

And BTW, where is Orph?

Andrei said:
<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quote:</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>

I think it was easier to make a relatively good looking map. [...] There are so many elements of the map that people have to be fluent in (displacements, props, 3D skyboxes etc) and the custom content is now much harder to make. [...]

With the complexity of HL2 and the overall visual quality and level of detail the bar has been set much higher. Good maps require hours upon hours more to detail and create a quality feeling.

Exactly my point. Well said, sir :smile: .

And BTW, where is Orph?

</div></div>

Who cares about him anyway? Give it a rest.

Still I feel you two are missing a valid point. Think on it this way. Everyone knew 1,000 was the upper limit on maps. People tried to exceed it but damned few actually succeeded. The margin for error was incredibly tiny. Now theres the point you two are making. YES, the learning curve is much,much steeper, but the room for success is also much,much broader.

Making maps was harder with HL1 because of its small window of success. Far fewer people made it than you think. When you consider that everyone had the same opportunity for success with HL1 and so few did, thats got to say something for the difficulty factor.

Also, it sounds almost like neither of you truly comprehend the difficulty one faced making truly successfully maps for the HL1 engine. I could be totally off the mark, but just judging by your words, I think not.

---

There is no history until something happens, then there is.

<div class="quote"><div class="quotetitle">? quoting Underdog:</div><div class="quotetext">

Who cares about him anyway? Give it a rest.

</div></div>Many people care about Orpheus. The fact that he left us without so
much as a goodbye have left many of us puzzled. Why does it bother you
so much to see someone being missed?

<div class="quote"><div class="quotetitle">? quoting Underdog:</div><div class="quotetext">

Still I feel you two are missing a valid point. Think on it this
way. Everyone knew 1,000 was the upper limit on maps. People tried to
exceed it but damned few actually succeeded. The margin for error was
incredibly tiny. Now theres the point you two are making. YES, the
learning curve is much,much steeper, but the room for success is also
much,much broader.

</div></div>

We've got different opinions about what the r_speed limits meant in
terms of a map. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you were saying that
the meager limits on regular brushes made it harder for people to
succeed, and that the margin of error was tiny. I agree to the
extent that there was less to judge and therefore every
component/brush/model/texture was therefore worth more... but that
doesn't mean it was harder to map for HL1. The potential size of
HL2 maps is a huge hurdle for most mappers. Mappers for HL1 could
concieve of an idea and actually handle the size of what they were
trying to do. The r_speed limits kept things simpler, more
elegant, and easier to make.

So, extrapolating what you've said, I'm assuming you also think that
the margin for error now is greater? I can't agree with you
there. With the higher quality and more realistic settings, its
easier for poorly made areas to stand out as ugly and incongrous.
Before, "ugly" structures or architecture were perfectly fine because
those were the limitations. Just compare the original cs_assault
with the new source version. The original cs_assault was almost
like a symbolic representation of a warehouse in the middle of a
city. People accepted that it didnt look realistic. The new
version is so unbelievably detailed and developed any tiny detail that
didn't appear realistic would stick out like a sore thumb.

I also don't agree when you say the room for success is also much, much
broader. You seem to be ignoring my point about how in order to have a
successful map you have to compete with entire teams of professionals
at Valve who set the standard.

Nowadays you need a team to create something original or
noteworthy.
Look at de_inferno. Do you think a single mapper (creator is a
better word now since maps involve much more than just mapping) would
have much of a
chance creating all the custom materials, props, and the physical
brushes? It would take much longer (and much more effort) than a
similarly heralded map in HL1. Given the new heavy requirements
for a great map, I would say the room for success is much, much
narrower.

Underdog: said:
Making maps was harder with HL1 because of its small window of
success. Far fewer people made it than you think. When you consider
that everyone had the same opportunity for success with HL1 and so few
did, thats got to say something for the difficulty factor.

What do you mean that so few succeeded in making maps for HL1? There was a robust mappping community that produced maps for many many
MODs. Furthermore, it would be impossible to make this claim
without figures of how many people were actually successful relative to
the number of mappers, and then pull similar figures for this very very
young HL2 scene.

<div class="quote"><div class="quotetitle">? quoting Underdog:</div><div class="quotetext">

Also, it sounds almost like neither of you truly comprehend the
difficulty one faced making truly successfully maps for the HL1 engine.
I could be totally off the mark, but just judging by your words, I
think not.

</div></div>

You come across as rather elitest here. You claim you are the
only of us three who "truly comprehend the difficulty one faced making
truly successful maps for the HL1 engine." I have seen nothing
that would indicate this true comprehension, except that we have
different opinions about differences in mapping across HL1 and HL2 ---
in which case I could say the very same thing... judging by your words
you don't truly comprehend the difficulty one faced making truly
successful maps for the HL1 engine.

But then we'd be going in circles wouldn't we? :smile:

Just take my words objectively, rebuke the things that strike you as
wrong, and tell me why. Don't question my intelligence simply
because we have different opinions.

I haven't posted in this yet, and haven't read much either, but I
always get upset because I feel like a newcomer and they seem frowned
upon.

I can't really say why it's boring in here, because I on't agree with
that statement. I feel that there's just a lul in activity.
Many threads are still interesting, it's just that the mapping part has
sort of hit a plateau.

I'm sure that things will kick up eventually, maybe some older members
will come back, but there really isn't anything wrong or boring with
this community, I think osme of us are afraid of change, and others
just have frequented less with the lack of maps.

I personally have a terribly low attention span, and can never really
finish, or make a map what I want it to be. I therefore slipped
out of it, and keep feeling like I'd like to begin again, but just
can't get that one good idea to really get me interested.

Anyhoo, I may just be talking out of my ass.

P.S., I too miss Orpheus, he kind of taught me basic internet
etiquette. When I first came here, I was quite the n00b of the
net, but we had our quarrels and I thank him for his help. plus I
just think he was a good guy :smile:

Ummm, i Have mention Orph maybe 2 times like since he was gone k?

---

http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/8521/windows981dk.jpg

Nickelplate is my dad

I have nothing against the man. I just find it odd that he is so often mentioned when someone finds it necessary to express themselves. Have some pride. If you cannot express yourselves freely, why bother expressing yourselves at all.

I also would like to clarify. My opinions on mapping are 100% Deathmatch based. I do not take any other mod into account and as such do not hold them liable for my feelings on the mapping community. You cannot compare easily Counter-Strike mapping with DM, nor can you truly compare Single-Player to TFC.

I still contend that it was harder to map for HLDM successfully. We each measure success differently to be sure, but any or all of us will eventually base our opinions on one factor. R_Speeds. No matter how well, or poorly it was made this is the base computing factor when success is made. Followed closely by the rest, such as: Fun factor,architecture,connectivity and so forth. You can rearrange your priorities any way you wish, but if you do not hold R_Speeds in the top slot you are... In denial.

As for clarifying how I determine the breath and width of success possibilities for HL2 compared to HL1. I feel the room for success is broader BECAUSE of the things you mention, not in spite of them. You can succeed with or without props. You can succeed with a large map or small. You can succeed even if its built poorly because of the cosmetics provided with props, you can succeed in many more ways than simply maintaining a low r_speeded map.

Elite? Hardly. My comments are simply stating my viewpoints and if they come across that way, its something you need to address not I since I am not the one whom is confused about them.

I would however like to say, I apologize for any misunderstanding about my position on the community. I am hardly against HL2 mapping since its the future of the site in general. My goal was to charge everyones engines in the hope of making some camaraderie and thereby possibly incite more into action.

---

There is no history until something happens, then there is.

Most of your points are well taken, but I don't think you can have a good map without all the things I mentioned.

Also -- it's hard to catch meaning and inflection, and if I read
something differently than how you intended, its not me reading into a
phrase or having some sort of personal problem that I need to resolve,
its you needing to write with a little more clarity and perhaps with a
few smilies to soften otherwise hard words. Like so, :smile:

Edit: I
almost forgot, how is someone asking about the whereabouts of Orpheus
equal to not having enough pride to freely express oneself? I
don't think win98's or Andrei's comments demonstrated any sort of
personal intellectual weakness.

<div class="quote"><div class="quotetitle">

? quote:

<span style="color: white;">Who cares about him anyway? <span style="color: red;">[he's one of the oldest and most active members of this community. why wouldn't we care about him?]</span></span>

</div><div class="quotetext">

I just find it odd that he is so often mentioned when someone finds it necessary to express themselves. [no,
he just happened to be mentioned in that context. and it's not like
we're asking him what to say each time we want to "express" ourselves]

If you cannot express yourselves freely, why bother expressing yourselves at all. [I really can't see how simply mentioning someone's name prevents me from "expressing myself freely". ]

</div></div>

You guys do it so often, you do not even notice. I, being primarily an outsider (a condition I hope to remedy someday) notice. Would it help if I keep tally from now on? :wink:

Seriously, I couldn't care less if you loved him or hated him. What I do care about is keeping this as on topic as possible. My imagined problem with Orpheus not withstanding, if you catch my drift.

As for my viewpoint on mapping. My main hangout before here was dominated by player minded folk. I was something of an outsider. My views on mapping had more to do with (adopts player mindset and voice) "Me can shoot real good"

I found this site purely by accident. I found it a long time before I actually joined but I still knew of it. Had I joined when I discovered it my number would have been substantially lower but, (sighs) I forgot for a while because of my job. Thats not here nor there though.

My views on mapping are strong and proven so its not as if I am talking without a base understanding.

Now, can we move past this Orpheus thing you guys have?

---

There is no history until something happens, then there is.

NO. ORPH ORPH ORPH

But seriously folks, killing strippers isn't really funny. Just
because they have no family oesn't make them any less human.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting French Toast</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>

But seriously folks, killing strippers isn't really funny. Just because they have no family oesn't make them any less human.
</DIV></DIV>

Did I mention that throwing rice into ones eyes is painful? Much worse than French Toast. :heee:

---

There is no history until something happens, then there is.

I don't want to speak for everyone, but I feel like Orpheus with his
many years here and many thousand posts has had a very large
impact on many of the people here. It would be like asking
someone to forget a part of their history here, or give up part of
themselves. Orpheus permeates the identiy and psyche of quite a
large number of us here.

I personally don't bring him up often ( I found we just debated about
stuff like homosexuality non-stop ) but I feel like it would be
disrespectful to just unceremoniously bury him like you suggest.

Addicted to Morphine said:
Orpheus,Orpheus,Orpheus,Orpheus,Orpheus,

( I found we just debated about stuff like homosexuality non-stop )

You're still doing it.

Now homosexuals, theres someone you can truly throw rice at.

(laughs softly)

Sorry, you deserved that.

---

There is no history until something happens, then there is.

Haha I'm confused now. We were already on the topic, I wasn't just bringing him up out of the blue :smile:

And what's with the rice fixation? I don't get it :?

Addicted to Morphine said:
And what's with the rice fixation? I don't get it :?

Just a bit of levity is all. The other day your dear friend HAL9000 brought it up and I couldn't resist.

Nevermind.

---

There is no history until something happens, then there is.

Underdog were you around (or reading the forums anyway) when Oprh was posting and such? Do you know who he is?

---

http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/8521/windows981dk.jpg

Nickelplate is my dad

I do believe our friend UD lurked for quite some time. He's
registered at 1247, you're at 2452. I have a hunch that maybe he
knows who he is... just maybe.

Windows 98 said:
Underdog were you around (or reading the forums anyway) when Oprh was posting and such? Do you know who he is?

I know enough to spell his name correctly, and little more. I read many of his posts and saw that he was well informed on many issues. What I found odd was, the week before he left he was being slandered in quite a few places throughout this site, yet few if any rallied to his defense. I find it odd that now he has fans.

Other than that, not a clue.

---

There is no history until something happens, then there is.

I don't remember reading any posts in which he was slandered...?

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Addicted to Morphine</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>I don't remember reading any posts in which he was slandered...?
</DIV></DIV>

See.

You know what, perhaps its a combination of me being new and not aware of how things were, and you guys being used to how things were. Remember when I first commented on things? My first impression was how harsh and violent the place felt?

Perhaps you don't remember because it happened often enough to make you not do so.

Anyway, this thread is about how the site has changed. It seems apparent to me that at least a portion of that change is because certain key members are missing. Orpheus being chief among them.

Give me a few minutes. I will dig out at least one example of how he was, IMO, wrong severely.

BRB

[edit]

(wipes forehead)

That wasn't nearly as hard as I thought. I had to scan back only about 10 or so pages.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong. Wasn't Orpheus well versed in mapping? Perhaps the word "Guru" is over-stating it, but knowledgeable enough to warrant respect?

Read these comments.

Pretentious. Now thats a powerful word. Its also a very disrespectful title to pin on someone with, a few hundred mapping critiques under his belt?

(Here I am assuming because I cannot find not one functional critique)

Its not as if he overstepped himself. I am not an architect, but I do work closely with them. It is my experience that architects get inspectors to look over their work, long before it reaches 80 or 90%. Whats so wrong about a well know critiquer expressing the same concerns?

As I stated, I do not know him, and I cannot find any functional critiques. Why this is I am not sure. One can assume that either they were poorly done, or the system for retaining them was poorly implemented.

In the end however. I saw not one single person defend him. Looking in the maps section was far easier than scanning forum threads that old so please do not ask me to prove my point further. I couldn't. :sad:

As I see it, I have fully explained myself concerning my viewpoint on this member.

---

There is no history until something happens, then there is.

My first impression was how harsh and violent the place felt?

Snarkpit always felt as an 'elite' site to me, and the core crew
probably had the same with other sites when they got started. I don't
think it's a bad thing. Keeps those that aren't really serious about
mapping out.

Also, I think we need to give this whole HL2 mapping scene just some
more time, and continue, well, just mapping and having fun with it.
Digging how things are changing can be educative at times but at other
times it's good to get going and to look at the future. We could debate
long threads about how this and that is missing, but it'd be better to
contribute in a positive, adding way. Things in life just change and
that's not always a bad thing.

I know, I have those nostalgic feelings too, but if I'm not dealing
with them and start working towards the future, then I'll get stuck in
life. So, let's just get going. Orpheus has been discussed a while ago
too so I think there's little that needs to be said anymore about it.

---

Create-ivity - a game development blog

Yikes. You guys need to simmer down.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Campaignjunkie</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>Yikes. You guys need to simmer down.
</DIV></DIV>

As in "Boiled rice"

Yeah thats cool too. :biggrin:

BTW, I looked up the word "Slander" it fits. I just wanted to clarify that so I wouldn't look the fool. Actually, Slander leads to the word "Defamed" which is a bit more precise.

---

There is no history until something happens, then there is.

Rice - no.

Rice is lame. It's only good if I feel like eating 2000 of something.

How about some lasagna? That's better.

From now on, substitute rice with lasagna.

Anyhoo, go Orph, stop being so critical, calm down, shut up, eat right, may the force be with you.

French Toast said:
Rice - no.

200 billion Chinese can't be wrong. Rice, it does a body good. :biggrin:

---

There is no history until something happens, then there is.

That's because the chinese didn't have lasagna when they were
beginning. If lasagna had replaced rice many many years ago,
lasagna would be in the place of rice today in the chinese culture.

They're only doing it to try and be like their cooler ancestors.

Ew, I'd choose white rice over lasagna anyday. Mmm, with some rice paper ... OOH and noodles with beef ... mmm. I must go to Chang's one of these days .... or Go-Go's. (Both are Mongolian grills, I suggest both. They're damn good.)

Also, wouldn't it be liable? Since, this is all text.

---

Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

Here of late, I have had a serious craving for Shrimp fried rice.

God that stuff is good.

---

There is no history until something happens, then there is.

Hell yes. Except, I can't stand meat in fried rice. But, it's pretty easy to make fried rice. Get a seasoning for it, then cook some rice the night before (leave it covered) sit it in the fridge overnight, then prepare as to the packages directions. (If you want it pre-made, find a Lotus somewhere. They make the best 'fast-food' version. Happy Panda and Panda Express just suck)

But, Speaking of shrimp, the shrimp at Go-Go's is so good. Everything there is fresh too.

---

Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

Crono my man. We almost agreed on something. What a wonderful note to end an evening on.

G'night gents.

---

There is no history until something happens, then there is.

I think its because Orpheus isnt here to yell at us for making n00b killboxes :smile:

LOL.. true..

I'll have teriyaki stir fried shirmp on top of fried rice. But, as for in it .. bleh, flavorless excuse to put meat in.

Night.

---

Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

I'll have teriyaki stir fried shirmp on top of fried rice

Your making me ub3r hungrey

---

http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/8521/windows981dk.jpg

Nickelplate is my dad

My mother is an amazing cook. She can whip up some great Chinese dishes.

Wow, we're very off topic.

I think its boring around here because Underdog is now part of our
group, and he ask stupid questions about why do you think its boring
around here, and then hijacks his own thread in an ill attempt to look
cool. Oh wait thats not an option.

Dang it I did it again.. sorry.. let me go meditate some more..

HUMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM MAYBE If I CHANT HARDER.... HUMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

FIND YOUR CENETER

HUMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

Ahh All better..

I think its boring around here because Underdog is now part of our
group

Which group, and am I a member?

I think I've figured out why he's been going on about Orph and acting all Mr Sassy Pants. He wants to become the new Orpheus... IS Orpheus (as already suggested by Fishy).<br style="color: lightblue;">
<br style="color: lightblue;">
Welcome back old chap :smile: .

---

Ham and Jam Contributor
http://www.hamandjam.org

'Get your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty ape!'

He wants to become the new Orpheus

AHA, I KNEW IT! The conspiracy unveils itself! The treachery knows no ends!!! :heee:

And lasagna is pure evil in my book, right next to eggplants and Stomachsoup with chicken in it.

I don't particularly think the Snarkpit has gone boring. There has been a high volume of pointless polls etc. of late, and some questionable content (Windows 98....) - but it's still the same old Snarkpit.

As has been previously mentioned, part of the problem lies with HL2 and the amount of time required to make a map - and the difficulties in creating custom content now. I know you (Underdog) said about a lot of the maps you have enjoyed the most used standard HL resources, but it's much more rewarding to create something that uses nearly all-new content - and nigh on impossible to fulfill a vision with the same only concrete walls. E.g how would I go about creating an Egyptian temple with the textures provided to me as standard in HL?

Personally, I just don't have the time or drive to map at the moment (mortgage & house to maintain, kitten that needs watching 24/7 so it doesn't destroy everything, full-time employment etc.)

Also, don't assume that all the 'old regulars' have left. We may not post, but we still read it all :smile:

---

You Got To Get Through What You've Got To Go Through To Get What You Want But You Got To Know What You Want To Get Through What You Got To Go Through

Any who are against lasagna, haven't had the kind my grandma makes. That's enough to convert asia.

We may not post, but we still read it all :smile:

I always feel that... somebody's watching meee! And I have no privacy, ooh ooh o-oooh...

// CP hums further...

---

Create-ivity - a game development blog

Actually, I hate lasagna. The noodles never seem to cook correctly. I do however prefer rice over noodles so that may be part of the problem.

If (as this thread seems to be insinuating) I need to be cool to be here. My chances are not to good.

---

There is no history until something happens, then there is.

There are noodles in lasagna?

---

"If you talk at all during this lesson, you have detention. Do you understand?"

• My yr11 Economics teacher

wil5on said:
There are noodles in lasagna?

Yeah, hence the lasagna noodle. :wink:

---

There is no history until something happens, then there is.

Either I've missed something entirely, or you're eating some wierd lasagna

---

[img]http://card.mygamercard.net/sig/Default/reno84.png[/img]
Designer @ Haiku Interactive | ReNo-vation.net

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting ReNo</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>Either I've missed something entirely, or you're eating some wierd lasagna
</DIV></DIV>

Specify Mr. Reno. Both Wilson and I are having this conversation.

Hopefully this page will post properly. Note all the noodles.

Cooking lasagna noodles.

---

There is no history until something happens, then there is.

Looks like lasagna to me, but I would never have thought they were
called "lasagna noodles". Noodles makes me think string, not sheet :smile:

---

[img]http://card.mygamercard.net/sig/Default/reno84.png[/img]
Designer @ Haiku Interactive | ReNo-vation.net

ReNo said:
Looks like lasagna to me, but I would never have thought they were called "lasagna noodles". Noodles makes me think string, not sheet :smile:

Oh God. There are so many noodle types that the string one no longer stands a chance in the States.

I suppose my favorite is Rigatoni. They are hard to make but worth it if you succeed.

<div class="abouttext">Message submitted 39 minutes after original post:</b></div>

Adam Hawkins said:
As has been previously mentioned, part of the problem lies with HL2 and the amount of time required to make a map - and the difficulties in creating custom content now. I know you (Underdog) said about a lot of the maps you have enjoyed the most used standard HL resources, but it's much more rewarding to create something that uses nearly all-new content - and nigh on impossible to fulfill a vision with the same only concrete walls. E.g how would I go about creating an Egyptian temple with the textures provided to me as standard in HL?

Why do I always get the impression that I failed somehow? This has gone on long enough that even I do not understand what I meant to say anymore.

Let me begin anew:
I do not particularly feel that stock maps are best. I do think however that creating a good map using stock textures would be much more difficult, and as such, the window for success would be much smaller. I feel that you should use all the tools given you in making any map, but to rely on props to bring the map "together" is not exactly wrong, but shows a lack of creativity. I still contend that given the circumstances, if you made the same map that was identical in every way that it would be more difficult to succeed using the HL1 engine than the HL2 engine. No, I am not attempting to say that the maps made for HL2 will be easy, just that the limits are much higher and it would take longer to reach them.

Perhaps where the confusion lies is, people expect more details now. Why? because the engine can deliver them. Now, given that its expected, its now harder to create maps for HL2 because the public is much more cognizant of where you failed to deliver. In the HL1 days, if anyone took the time to turn on R_Speeds 1, they would know where and why you omitted something. Now it just looks like you got lazy and decided against dedicating the time to make your map look its best.

So we are left with this:
Is HL1 mapping harder? NO!
Is it more difficult to map and stay within the boundaries of the engine? YES!

Those were my only points. I hope that they are clear now.

---

There is no history until something happens, then there is.

It's actually pasta, not noodles, that is used in lasagna. Noodles are
more of an Asian style, where pasta is Italian. That should make it a
bit clearer for people.

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Ham and Jam Contributor
http://www.hamandjam.org

'Get your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty ape!'