I think those tips are great. The concrete textures work very well in the outside areas because of the light and contrast.

The same massive concrete surfaces seem to suffer in the interiors
because the size and lighting style are not enough to give them the
same value.

As Gwill said, you can either spice up the interiors or open up even
more shafts of light into these rooms (like the one in the fifth pic
Gwill posted). Everyone mostly agrees that the map could be a bit
brighter, but I don't know if it would take something away from
the map. The transitition is very nice with HDR.

Since it's a multiplayer map, I think you'll have to go with what's best for the gameflow and not the visuals. :sad:

Speaking of the underground rooms. Something that you could do is using
a lighting color code to make navigation easier. For example, you could
have your blue lights in the alcoves and beneath the pillars, while all
the exits would be lit with a green/othercolor hue. I think things like
that could make learning the map easier.

Some images in this post have been automatically down-sized, click on them to view the full sized versions:

Some images in this post have been automatically down-sized, click on them to view the full sized versions:

Some images in this post have been automatically down-sized, click on them to view the full sized versions:

Some images in this post have been automatically down-sized, click on them to view the full sized versions:

Some images in this post have been automatically down-sized, click on them to view the full sized versions:

Here's some of the points I was talking about in my previous post, re - "one path" syndrome.



This shot has been brightened (as have the others). The colour of that
ladder is a sticker for blending in with the concrete. A quick glance
makes it easy to miss. Stick in an emergency light or a recess to make
it more noticeable.

Also, the area with the crossbow and charger could be extended IMO -
another pathway, or perhaps access to ventilation systems, as seen in
the lower levels with the RPG/SLAM. Reward players with 2 Combine balls

• the ones out at the moment are easy to get!

One path syndrome. Such a large area, it is crying out for more escape
routes / entry routes. Adding a door in either location which could
lead either up or down gives opportunity to expand the Z-Axis, and
remove the feeling of a single path experienced in this areas.

Also, while I understand it is an alpha, there is nothing in terms of
detail or architecture to make this area identifiable as a "landmark".



Similar points to the shot above. Behind me is a redundant alcove, in
front of me too! Are these going to be doors or stairs? There's a lot
of recesses or gaps in walls which look like doors that aren't yet.
Adding at least one in the blue pools areas will open up the dynamic so
much more.



Similar points again. See how grey this area feels? There's no girders,
light variation or indeed changes in architecture. Cut some pipes into
those walls, vents, emergency lights, fencing, power boxes. Anything!
It helps us to navigate a level if we have objects serving as
landmarks. Also, it looks nice to have some variation in your brushes :wink:



As above - also a prime culprit for "alcove syndrome". This area
needs doors and variation in the brushwork. The atmosphere is good, but
it's let down by seeming dull in terms of repeated shapes and flow.



And here we have a fine example of what this map really does well. The
large jutted pillar, coupled with the light shaft coming down AND the
big pile of rubbish (nice touch with the falling bottles, BTW :smile: ) makes
us recognise and instantly assess which way to pursue or escape
via. While the right hand side is a little "grey", the rest is
excellent. Using the grating over to the far left along with green
lights is the quick and easy method of adding that landmarking,
variation and detail to the map.

• Improve gameflow, especially in the flooded areas. It is too
  close to being a single track level when two large areas like that are
  sourced by only a handful of doors.</li>
• Break up the architecture - add girders, work with some new
  shapes. Remebering a level by the idea of "the room with the pipes" or
  "ramp room" is classic navigation.
  
  </li>
• Expand the z-axis play. Intergrate more venting and suspended
  walkways. With the extra doors added and layout reformed, there is
  plenty of scope for intergrating 1/2 new areas with a layout consistent
  with the current alpha.</li>

Everything else in this map, I love - the sounds are subtle but there
(perhaps have one big fan somewhere?) The light peeking through and
clever use of HDR add to the subterranean feel massively. With a few
tweaks of layout and polishing of architecture, this is all set to be a
classic. Good stuff man.

(I hope you can understand my scruffy Wacom handwriting :wink: )

If you can hang on til then? :wink:

I'll try :smile:

I'll have a poke around tomorrow reaper and take some screenshots to
illustrate my ideas better :smile: If you can hang on til then? :wink:

A lot of the lower water areas look more or less the same. There is not much variation in lighting, room shape or size to give people clear landmarks to play by. Perhaps you incorporate in more side details, like insets in the walls covered by grates. Wires and cables, red/green lights, giant fans or even a pile of rubbish or a distinctive poster can help landmark the map.

This is what I'm working on right now. The underwater-secion is the most random part of the map. Only there to get an alternate route between two of the main parts of the map. I'm trying hard to give this part more identity.

EDIT: Actually, I was surprised so few people complaint about this part lacking a thematical purpose (probably because it's too dark to see much anyway?). I almost thought that my time is spent better on other parts of the map, only lighting it up a bit and then moving on. Your post finally forced me to make what I think will turn out as the right decision: Trash the whole underground areas and replace them by something more interesting. The blue-light pillars and water will stay in one form or another because I like it. But I'll try to make this section look like some bar/restaurant/shopping area, a bit more open, with a nice view on some underground skybox-backgrounds. I'm glad I could overcome my fears and re-build the section completely. I can also think of better better connectivity down there as the whole underground part always felt a bit to linear to me.

My only other criticism would be that the layout also suffers from being too "circular". The escape opportunities from firefights tend to be limited to 2 exits at most, and only in a few areas is there z-axis incorporation. So far you have a good level but it needs refining and retuning in terms of gameplay mechanics. A good theme and good standard of construction is let down by an oversight of mechanics.

Thanks for pointing this out. I think I can "feel" the problem but it's hard to point a finger on the parts that need alternate routes ect. I'm a bit blind right now. Maybe you can name a few areas specifically that you think would need more escape opportunities?

The one overriding problem I can see with this map is a lack of
identity. The architecture and atmosphere are carried off well, but in
terms of having a clear and quickly understood layout, they do not
succeed.

A lot of the lower water areas look more or less the same. There is not
much variation in lighting, room shape or size to give people clear
landmarks to play by. Perhaps you incorporate in more side details,
like insets in the walls covered by grates. Wires and cables, red/green
lights, giant fans or even a pile of rubbish or a distinctive poster
can help landmark the map.

My only other criticism would be that the layout also suffers from
being too "circular". The escape opportunities from firefights tend to
be limited to 2 exits at most, and only in a few areas is there z-axis
incorporation. So far you have a good level but it needs refining and
retuning in terms of gameplay mechanics. A good theme and good standard
of construction is let down by an oversight of mechanics.

I'd list all the things I enjoy about the map, but that's already been done :wink: There is potential for a classic map here.

Heh, I know what you mean. I'll try out something with the next update :wink:

Even if those appendixes will make the gameflow less forced, you should
give them some sort of significance in terms of the theme, so they
don't feel architecturally forced. Closed doors, ventshafts, windows or
other things would be the natural way to solve it, I think.

Agreed, I'll think of something!

[FF]FNDR.Jake_Brake, thanks a lot for the feedback! My internet connection was kinda non-existent the last few days so I could neither join the server or answer your post.

Thanks to you guys I now have a rather clear idea of what to change for the next update! :smile:

Well, I have had this up and running for two days on my Dallas server. The reactions have been hot and cold. Those that love it state that it is a very unique layout, great textures, very good fps performance and really provides tremendous "atmosphere". Those that do not like it seem to point to one complaint: the lower levels being just too dark. I agree with Kasperg and Reapers points: More accessibility to the upper levels, and more weapon availability would add a lot. And, add at least one other spawn point up there. I also would lighten up the lower levels just a tad (not too much as I personally like the dark atmosphere as it adds a creepy feeling to the map)

BTW, I am in the camp that "loves" the map! Very clean, unique with crisp detail! I am going to keep the map in my rotation for awhile so keep up the great work!

Even if those appendixes will make the gameflow less forced, you should
give them some sort of significance in terms of the theme, so they
don't feel architecturally forced. Closed doors, ventshafts, windows or
other things would be the natural way to solve it, I think.