PitCrew the original

UPDATE:

1st off, i am so glad to finally receive the map from yak, and i do NOT wanna retract from that thought at all so if you want to quit reading now, you may and then go thank yak for a job well done.

2nd, the damned MAX_MAP_PLANES error has rared its ugly head again, i am not asking for help just yet, but i may very soon. i have clipped off virtually everything in the damned map, and STILL IT PERSISTS. the damned map appears to be totally constructed out of clip brushes :biggrin:

3rdly, if anyone knows how to determine just how much over the limit a map is, i would really appreciate it.. i would like to know if i am 4 or 5 over now or still 100's away

4th, this map may have to wait till the HL2 engine can do it, OR we may have to simplify a few areas.. (such as grimlocks and reno's rocks) i am betting there are a few 1000 planes in those sections.

lastly, if i need help, whom might have time on our crew to look this over?

If you try to convert this map to HL2, you might as well re:build it from scratch.

Vash said:
If you try to convert this map to HL2, you might as well re:build it from scratch.

why?

i have viewed No_Patience and Apex both in the new editor, with no problems.. what makes you think so?

1) All textures will have to be changed

2) Half of the entitys will have to be changed

3) Player dimensions might be different in Half-Life2

4) Some architecture and such might have to be changed

It'll take a lot with textures alone.

Use that XP-Cagey optplns thing. Get a modified version of HLCSG with no planes limit, then use optplns.exe and bring it back down so you can play it.

Yes, XP-cagey's tools basically eliminate the max_map_planes error since after the compile you can get rid of like 2/3 of them.

http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=4&t=21248&s=8b03db4af6fc36ea64b6539077787c76

You should make sure that AFTER the map has been "plane-optimised", the number of planes is below the original maximum. In other words, make sure that it reads "49%" or less on the chart. I've heard that going over this amount (i.e. genuinely exceeding the planes limit) can cause weird problems. This is most likely why Zoner's tools reverted stuck on the original limit.

If it still wont compile with the XP-Cagey tools, let me know and i'll hook you up with some tools modified for Frontline Force. Essentially, XP-Cagey's tools doubles the allowed max_plane limit, while the FLF ones don't have a limit at all :smile: Though if it still exceeds the limit after the map has been optimised, your in for some nice vanishing brushes and random HOM effects popping up here and there...

PitCrew Map

you will need the signs.zip too, i forgot to wadinclude it :sad:

cough Orph, there are plenty of things in my section that I can change to help alleviate the problem...

plus... I thought the clipping only helped reduce clipnodes, not planes. If that's the case, I know of a couple of clipped places in my section alone that can be changed.

problem solved.. tis why i posted the .bsp silly :smile:

[EDIT]

just to reitterate..

i used the 17 merl build on the CSG,BSP and VIS in this map, it solved the error with no clip brushes needed.. i essentually used yaks .map with no enhencements.. so the error is now fine.

i used the 2.5.3 zoners version of HLRAD, cause the 17 build ruined my maps compile.. it was a mess, and i advise anyone having issues with rad to try without as i did..

i had to increase the texture limit.. the map was .02 over the limit :biggrin:

added the sparse command, just in case, dunno if it helped, but couldnt have hurt,

compile finished without a hitch..

enjoy guys, and PLEASE comment

oh, don't i look like quite the fool :biggrin:

It's a definite improvement overall. I liked bits of Yak's section better last time, but I suppose the new "concrete look" fits in better with the rest of the map. Dave's section has also improved a lot.

Not sure if I like those new stairs in your section, Orph - I think the old ones were better :/

Connectivity in this map is superb; possibly even more confusing than Gmdm2, however!

Finish it up, guys. Much as I like this map, it won't cut it in HL2.

Gollum said:
1. It's a definite improvement overall. I liked bits of Yak's section better last time, but I suppose the new "concrete look" fits in better with the rest of the map.

2. Connectivity in this map is superb; possibly even more confusing than Gmdm2, however!

1. heh, I hated almost everything I had done for the first go-round.

2. that's what I was going for with my section (not the confusing part though)

BTW, i realize this belongs in "maps" but i opted to place it here to cut down on any confusion with the current pitcrew 2 map..

just in case someone notices i put it in general :smile:

our project has been going on for well over a year, i would really rather not steal the current maps thunder ..

Whoa, totally awesome improvements, I really like the way its turned out. I suggest we compile a final bsp, playtest, and tweak weapons with -onlyents compiles.

my plans are, to add some weaponry and touch up a few areas i noticed while walking around..

i was hoping people would post some errors today so i could have more eyes on this thing..

it takes so long to compile, i wanna do it as few times as possible.. but since the pit has been down more than up today that doesn't look likely

anyways.. i will compile this tonight, upload it once again and then someone with major bandwidth can run it passworded, with the vital info in this thread to allow all of us to playtest..

i intend for all weapons to be present, so if anyone has one they don't particularly like, please feel free to not pick it up while fragging..

thanx everyone for your patience..

BTW, the map still is un-named.. we need something worthy of nearly 1.5 years of our time..

Orpheus said:
i intend for all weapons to be present, so if anyone has one they don't particularly like, please feel free to not pick it up while fragging..

Agreed! Be sure to have lots of snarks in high places (-:

Also, how about the name: "Snark"? - Simple, expressive, bound to get online play, easy to type, and strangely not taken!

i sure would really like to be a part of playetesting if at all possible..... ****note large buttered bribe...er....offering.... :heee:

Doc Brass.. :dodgy:

grrr.

this map is driving me crazy..

i make a few alterations, nothing major.. and i create a leak, or at least i create a reported leak..

no biggie right?... wrong :sad:

the bsp refuses to load, so i cannot look for the damned thing.. tonight i am taking a break, but tomorrow i reckon i will use the block method and zero in on the location of the hole..

stupid map.. i am just about tired of it already..

will post a link, as soon as i can.

ANOTHER UPDATE:

this map is right at the edge of how much i wanna deal with :sad:

every time i fix one thing another crops up.. the latest was a never before seen error, but one gollum helped me to solve.. an error i will post in the editing forums to get it into the snarkpit database.. the only solution on the whole of the net according to google was in german and gollum translated it for my dumb ass.

Error: RankForContents: bad contents -17

in essence, this error occurs when you mix an earlier compile tool with the 17 build.. i had the 17 csg, and the 2.5.3 bsp together and the tools clashed.. solution.. do not mix tools of older versions with merls.

[color=white]another comment of note.. [/color]the XP-Cagey tools do not help with clipnode max counts, so using those tools did not help this map.. since we were under the limit of the merl's tools on plane counts i didn't need the extra plane limits of the XP tools..

lastly, we are at the extreme limit on clipnode counts.. i clipped 2 ducts and 2 walls in my section and put us under the wire, thats how close we are cause before then.. NO COMPILING!

anyways, ATM i am on rad, i added a few items, and will look this version over, i imaging due to the size of the map it will still be light on items so an "-onlyent" compile will be in order..

i will upload ASAP..

thanx again guys

p.s. when i post the question in editing, please allow gollum the chance to get the credit..

The XP-Cagey tools have a parameter in HLCSG called "-cliptype". This has a number of settings:

• -cliptype precise reduces stickiness and saves clipnodes
• -cliptype simple saves some extra clipnodes by lifting the players slightly on sloped floors
• -cliptype smallest saves the most clipnodes, but gives more sticky surfaces
• -cliptype legacy is the original version, with no stickness or clipnode reduction

I use "precise" by default. It's not perfect but it will reduce the amount of snags.

BTW the best places to clip are complex areas of geometry such as ReNo's cliffs. If these are not clipped off already, they could give a significant saving in clipnodes.

Other candidates for clipping are ceiling or detail areas that the player will never reach.

good job fellas.....well done....

mikee, you really DONT have a sex life do ya?

*runs like hell again.......

Doc Brass... :dodgy:

I'm not even going to dignify that with a response.

thinks

Dammit, I already did
Joke's getting old Doc...

damn........this is nice fellas.....i remember the layout early in the stages and it has gone over the top......very very nice work by all.....

im pissed though.....

orph, ya took out my swimming aqua bush.... :wink:

Doc Brass... :dodgy:

actually no, the bushes and the light fade are borked, and i cannot seem to get the settings right.. each time they act like liquid and its getting annoying as hell..

anyone have a clue?

ok,

VERSION 19 is ready for critiques.. specifically items..

i am repairing the illusions in grims area and compiling now, but some feedback on items would be nice guys..

go get 19 and post something :wink:

ok.....2 things that bother me on this...

but first let me say how absolutely stunning i think this map is....the cohesion is outstanding....not quite like herding cats, which ive grown to truly appreciate.... :heee:

1....its darker in fact quite a bit darker in spots that need to be lit.....i love the evening/twilight feel, but the outdoor ambient lighting doesnt contrast the indoor lighting enuff....looks like a big greyscale world indoors in spots....

2.....weapons....adequate i spose....types in room environments are nice (a little tight in the crossbow arena)... ....but honestly, i think it needs a thorough playtest folks.....just MHO....a single person walking and gawking doesnt answer that question well off the cuff sir... :smile:

mikey, no offense intended at all bud.....come to think of it, if i DIDNT have a sex life back then, i'd be a rich mutha by now, retired on a villa somewhere warm.... :wink:

think on that one my friend.....

wth am i saying, i still dont have a ......life.....either..... :biggrin:

Doc Brass... :dodgy:

here endeth the sex jokes....forever and ever.... :razz:

Dr Brasso said:
ok.....2 things that bother me on this...

but first let me say how absolutely stunning i think this map is....the cohesion is outstanding....not quite like herding cats, which ive grown to truly appreciate.... :heee:

1....its darker in fact quite a bit darker in spots that need to be lit.....i love the evening/twilight feel, but the outdoor ambient lighting doesnt contrast the indoor lighting enuff....looks like a big greyscale world indoors in spots....

2.....weapons....adequate i spose....types in room environments are nice (a little tight in the crossbow arena)... ....but honestly, i think it needs a thorough playtest folks.....just MHO....a single person walking and gawking doesnt answer that question well off the cuff sir... :smile:

at least one section was my fault..

when i edited the lights rad, i put the brightness at 5 000 for one light instead of the 5000 it was supposed to be.. i can only assume it set it at a whopping 5 because of the space..

will upload the new 19 soonish..

i am not satisfied with the recent compile, so i will leave the current 19 in the folder..

i will move around and add a few more items on my own and post a V.20 later today..

just to give you an idea of the scale of this monster, check out a few of these figures..



hlcsg v2.5.3 rel Custom Build 1.7 (Dec 9 2002)
Zoner's Half-Life Compilation Tools -- Custom Build
Based on code modifications by Sean 'Zoner' Cavanaugh
Based on Valve's version, modified with permission.
Submit detailed bug reports to (merlinis@bigpond.net.au)
----- BEGIN hlcsg -----
Command line: hlcsg.exe -estimate -high -texdata 8192 -wadinclude zeditor.wad -wadinclude tfc.WAD -wadinclude OPFOR.WAD -wadinclude signs.WAD C:\Half-Life\valve\maps\9snarkfinal19
Entering C:\Half-Life\valve\maps\9snarkfinal19.map

Current hlcsg Settings
Name | Setting | Default
---------------------|-----------|-------------------------
threads [ 1 ] [ Varies ]
verbose [ off ] [ off ]
log [ on ] [ on ]
developer [ 0 ] [ 0 ]
chart [ off ] [ off ]
estimate [ on ] [ off ]
max texture memory [ 8388608 ] [ 4194304 ]
priority [ High ] [ Normal ]

noclip [ off ] [ off ]
null texture stripping[ on ] [ on ]
clipnode economy mode [ on ] [ on ]
onlyents [ off ] [ off ]
wadtextures [ on ] [ on ]
skyclip [ on ] [ on ]
hullfile [ None ] [ None ]
min surface area [ 0.500 ] [ 0.500 ]
brush union threshold [ 0.000 ] [ 0.000 ]

Using mapfile wad configuration
Wadinclude list :
[zhlt.wad]
[zeditor.wad]
[tfc.WAD]
[OPFOR.WAD]
[signs.WAD]

129 brushes (totalling 767 sides) discarded from clipping hulls
CreateBrush:
(133.69 seconds)
SetModelCenters:
(0.12 seconds)
CSGBrush:
(54.01 seconds)

Using Wadfile: \half-life\valve\halflife.wad
- Contains 223 used textures, 95.30 percent of map (3116 textures in wad)
Including Wadfile: \half-life\valve\signs.wad
- Contains 8 used textures, 3.42 percent of map (8 textures in wad)
Including Wadfile: \half-life\tfc\tfc.wad
- Contains 1 used texture, 0.43 percent of map (279 textures in wad)
Including Wadfile: \half-life\gearbox\opfor.wad
- Contains 1 used texture, 0.43 percent of map (332 textures in wad)
Including Wadfile: \half-life\valve\zeditor.wad
- Contains 0 used textures, 0.00 percent of map (5 textures in wad)

added 47 additional animating textures.
Warning: ::FindTexture() texture NULL not found!
Are you sure you included zhlt.wad in your wadpath list?
Warning: ::LoadLump() texture NULL not found!
Texture usage is at 4.00 mb (of 8.00 mb MAX)
190.28 seconds elapsed [3m 10s]

----- END hlcsg -----

hlbsp v2.5.3 rel Custom Build 1.7 (Dec 9 2002)
Zoner's Half-Life Compilation Tools -- Custom Build
Based on code modifications by Sean 'Zoner' Cavanaugh
Based on Valve's version, modified with permission.
Submit detailed bug reports to (merlinis@bigpond.net.au)
----- BEGIN hlbsp -----
Command line: hlbsp.exe -estimate -high C:\Half-Life\valve\maps\9snarkfinal19

Current hlbsp Settings
Name | Setting | Default
-------------------|-----------|-------------------------
threads [ 1 ] [ Varies ]
verbose [ off ] [ off ]
log [ on ] [ on ]
developer [ 0 ] [ 0 ]
chart [ off ] [ off ]
estimate [ on ] [ off ]
max texture memory [ 4194304 ] [ 4194304 ]
priority [ High ] [ Normal ]

noclip [ off ] [ off ]
nofill [ off ] [ off ]
null tex. stripping [ on ] [ on ]
notjunc [ off ] [ off ]
subdivide size [ 240 ] [ 240 ] (Min 64) (Max 512)
max node size [ 1024 ] [ 1024 ] (Min 64) (Max 4096)

BSP generation successful, writing portal file 'C:\Half-Life\valve\maps\9snarkfinal19.prt'
102.27 seconds elapsed [1m 42s]

----- END hlbsp -----

hlvis v2.5.3 rel Custom Build 1.7 (Dec 9 2002)
Zoner's Half-Life Compilation Tools -- Custom Build
Based on code modifications by Sean 'Zoner' Cavanaugh
Based on Valve's version, modified with permission.
Submit detailed bug reports to (merlinis@bigpond.net.au)
----- BEGIN hlvis -----
Command line: hlvis.exe -estimate -high C:\Half-Life\valve\maps\9snarkfinal19
4874 portalleafs
14253 numportals

-= Current hlvis Settings =-
Name | Setting | Default
-------------------|-----------|-------------------------
threads [ 1 ] [ Varies ]
verbose [ off ] [ off ]
log [ on ] [ on ]
developer [ 0 ] [ 0 ]
chart [ off ] [ off ]
estimate [ on ] [ off ]
max texture memory [ 4194304 ] [ 4194304 ]
max vis distance [ 0 ] [ 0 ]
priority [ High ] [ Normal ]

fast vis [ off ] [ off ]
full vis [ off ] [ off ]

BasePortalVis:
(159.83 seconds)
LeafThread:
(769.08 seconds)
Warning: Leaf portals saw into leaf
Problem at portal between leaves 3219 and 3215:
(576.000 -1280.000 -32.000)
(576.000 -1280.000 -32.000)
(341.333 -1280.000 5.333)
(319.184 -1239.510 -0.000)
(438.634 -1230.049 -21.073)

average leafs visible: 184
g_visdatasize:352950 compressed from 2973140
930.19 seconds elapsed [15m 30s]

----- END hlvis -----

hlrad v2.5.3 rel (May 2 2001)
Based on Valve's version, modified with permission.
Submit detailed bug reports to (zoner@gearboxsoftware.com)
----- BEGIN hlrad -----
Command line: hlrad.exe -extra -bounce 2 -smooth 80 -estimate -sparse C:\Half-Life\valve\maps\9snarkfinal19

-= Current hlrad Settings =-
Name | Setting | Default
--------------------|---------------------|-------------------------
threads [ 1 ] [ Varies ]
verbose [ off ] [ off ]
log [ on ] [ on ]
developer [ 0 ] [ 0 ]
chart [ off ] [ off ]
estimate [ on ] [ off ]
max texture memory [ 4194304 ] [ 4194304 ]
priority [ Normal ] [ Normal ]

vismatrix algorithm [ Sparse ] [ Original ]
oversampling (-extra)[ on ] [ off ]
bounces [ 2 ] [ 1 ]
ambient light [ 0.000 0.000 0.000 ] [ 0.000 0.000 0.000 ]
maximum light [ 256.000 ] [ 256.000 ]
circus mode [ off ] [ off ]

smoothing threshold [ 80.000 ] [ 50.000 ]
direct threshold [ 25.000 ] [ 25.000 ]
direct light scale [ 2.000 ] [ 2.000 ]
coring threshold [ 1.000 ] [ 1.000 ]
patch interpolation [ on ] [ on ]

texscale [ on ] [ on ]
patch subdividing [ on ] [ on ]
chop value [ 64.000 ] [ 64.000 ]
texchop value [ 32.000 ] [ 32.000 ]

global fade [ 1.000 ] [ 1.000 ]
global falloff [ 2 ] [ 2 ]
global light scale [ 1.000 ] [ 1.000 ]
global gamma amount [ 0.500 ] [ 0.500 ]
global sky diffusion [ 1.000 ] [ 1.000 ]

opaque entities [ on ] [ on ]
sky lighting fix [ on ] [ on ]
incremental [ off ] [ off ]
dump [ off ] [ off ]

[Reading texlights from 'C:\Valve Hammer Editor\tools\ZHTL 17\lights.rad']
[51 texlights parsed from 'C:\Valve Hammer Editor\tools\ZHTL 17\lights.rad']

21798 faces
Create Patches : 94336 base patches
0 opaque faces
801793 square feet [115458296.00 square inches]
3002 direct lights

BuildFacelights:
(1402.85 seconds)
BuildVisLeafs:
(593.39 seconds)
visibility matrix : 29.2 megs
MakeScales:
(2151.08 seconds)
SwapTransfers:
(135.29 seconds)
Transfer Lists : 69147704 transfers
Indices : 47212580 bytes
Data : 276590816 bytes
GatherLight:
(25.92 seconds)
GatherLight:
(24.35 seconds)
FinalLightFace:
(34.12 seconds)
4388.76 seconds elapsed [1h 13m 8s]

----- END hlrad -----

(<a href=""mailto:zoner@gearboxsoftware.com"">zoner@gearboxsoftware.com</a>) <----- WTF??? He went to the dark side?? Well at least Gearbox now has 1 good employee.

A few things popped out at me as I read thru your compile log. I'm sure you guys already have these addressed, but...

full vis [ off ] [ off ]

LeafThread:
(769.08 seconds)
Warning: Leaf portals saw into leaf
Problem at portal between leaves 3219 and 3215:
(576.000 -1280.000 -32.000)
(576.000 -1280.000 -32.000)
(341.333 -1280.000 5.333)
(319.184 -1239.510 -0.000)
(438.634 -1230.049 -21.073)

actually doc, i didn't see that error :/

it must be in a non-visible place inside the map, cause i haven't noticed it..

and i never do a full vis till very last, for 2 reasons, 1 the compile time increases tremendously, and this map already compiles to long, and second sometimes it raises the r_speeds, so i compare at the end to see.

in most cases i dont release the full vis version.

thanx for the heads up on the leaf portal error, i will look for it next compile..

np :smile: and it should cut down on the compile time a little if ya find the sawspot...hopefully :wink:

after ANOTHER forever compile, i notice another issue, this one created by, .........me :sad:

i lowered the water level in dietz's area to stop the closh,glosh,closh sound..

now you cant get out.. will fix along with the saw into error i reckon.. BUT i feel the weapons are closer to correct..

will upload this V.20

input on item placement would STILL be welcome..

Btw guys... where is the signs.wad .. I couldnt find it in the Yahoo Brief Case..

i wadincluded it, the map should load without it now..

please lemme know otherwise..

thanx

pops in uninvited

Any chance of a couple of screenshots of Yaks area? :smile:

Alien_Sniper said:
pops in uninvited

Any chance of a couple of screenshots of Yaks area? :smile:

sure dave, gimme 5 minutes.. i forgot you didn't have access to HL

yaks area's connect mine,aliens,grimlocks, and dietz's

Basically the whole area owns. Heck, the whole map owns. We need some playtests.

LAST f**kING COMPILE!!

if no one finds anything major, this could be the last version..

people, please take a moment to delete any previous versions you may have..

post any changes that need addressed..

thanx for all your patience.

FIDDLER said:
(<A href="" mailto:zoner@gearboxsoftware.com??>zoner@gearboxsoftware.com</A>) <----- WTF??? He went to the dark side?? Well at least Gearbox now has 1 good employee.

umm... yeah... he's only been there for a few years now.

Woohoo, can't wait to get back and play it :smile: I'll grab my flatmates and have a playtest tonight.

does no one have a server for the holiday weekend?

some serious feedback needs posting, cause if none is forthcoming, i can do an onlyent compile to alter the name ingame and rename the bsp and release as is..

if no other input is available by mid-next week, i reckon you all are looking at the map :smile:

if we can acquire a server, i would like to playtest a bit.

OH and a name.. people we need a name, so far only mazeman has ventured one..

one last thing, we need all members of the team, to send me a text file of their accomplishments, so i can create a text file for the map..

Snarktastic? snarkalrific? Getyoursnarkon?

Anyway, i had a run around it and it was much better than i was expecting, then again i don't know what i was expecting. Go with snarkalrific, you know you want to!

I will be able to run a server anytime after monday on a T3 line, if yall care to wait...

for a t3, or any server, sure bud..

the map is a year over budget already, so no hurry..

my concern is only feedback, not timelimits.