BrokenPalace:Source

I figured I would start a post about this map, since so many people seem interested in it. I'll have lots of feedback very soon regarding my ambitions for the project, as well as a rock tutorial for anyone interested. I'll be back!

As you know, I'm definitely definitely interested in seeing that rock
tutorial (Sometimes I wish there was a tutorial request feature here at
the Snarkpit).

I won't be able to playtest when you put the download up (because of my
computer here at college) but I'd love to take a peek at some more
screenshots. If you happen to have any time, maybe you could post
some more.

Also -- would it be possible for someone to do an overhead layout with
weapon placement? I've always wondered about the theory behind
weapon placement for DM.

Morphine - that's a great idea (weapon layout tutorial). I'll definately do one of those, as it's one of the less covered topics but can make or break a level.

Morphine - that's a great idea (weapon layout tutorial). I'll
definately do one of those, as it's one of the less covered topics but
can make or break a level.

Ah, I'm glad you're taken with the idea! A lot of people focus on
where they put the RPG and maybe the Magnum, but it seems they don't
put too much thought into the other weapons....

Good work Finger! As always, very exciting stuff. I hope it's as playable as Broken Palace was...

The cliffs look a little lopsided... They seem to be very dense on the
right side of BP_Screenie5.jpg and almost none on the left.

Also, you may have overused the boxy light fixture (like the 4 in BP_Screenie6.jpg)

You got some texture aligning to do for more realism. and don't forget the cubemaps. but it looks like a real winner! :smile:

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I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

Really nice job. I dig the colors and the atmosphere.

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Thiago Klafke - Environment Artist
Digital Portfolio: www.thiagoklafke.com

This is a remake of Broken_Palace - my most successful Halflife 1 map. Sofar

I seem to recall that that was due to an excessive amount of dedicated personal time from certain Snarkpit members. I have searched, it seems in vain, for the alternate image links. Could you please show me where they are exactly?

Posting 300+k images is one thing, not posting alternative ones is something else. I realize that 300k is a personal decision on your part to pose your map in the best possible light, but posting 56k friendly screens would broaden your perspective information sources.

I doubt anyone here would discriminate against homosexuals, or race, but it seems everyone is hell bent to do so against dial up users.

Please set an example Finger.

As for screen #2. My only comment so far is, It strikes me that most oriental settings have subdued lighting. Will yours be so harsh or do you plan on some future compile setting to shade it a bit? I like the lamps, but there is to much light on the ceiling. Ceilings tend to look better in deeper shadows.

Thanks in advance.

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There is no history until something happens, then there is.

Orpheus?

I've made the screens a little lighter.

I seem to recall that that was due to an excessive amount of dedicated personal time from certain Snarkpit members

Very true.... all of which were highly credited and appreciated. The same will happen for all of the input I receive this time. I was in no way trying to disregard any of those people with this post.... is that the way you perceive it?

<DIV class=quotetext>As for screen #2. My only comment so far is, It strikes me that most oriental settings have subdued lighting. Will yours be so harsh or do you plan on some future compile setting to shade it a bit? I like the lamps, but there is to much light on the ceiling. Ceilings tend to look better in deeper shadows.</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext> </DIV>

Yeah, all of this is very much up in the air right now. I'm just trying to get the texture scheme and new areas banged out, then I'll focus on the more subtle elements of the map.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Finger</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>Orpheus?</DIV></DIV>

a rose, by any other name, still smells as sweet...

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i eat paint

Nice looking map, Finger! It could do with some more prop models, but it looks well on it's way.

Watch out for the fog though, it can make some objects appear game-esque rather than enhancing the real feeling of the map.

The broken wooden floor has some wooden planks lying around, but they
look really brushy, square. Using models with some finer splinter
detail would be a nice touch.

Looking forward to this one. Keep it up! :smile:

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Create-ivity - a game development blog

Finger said:
Orpheus?

I've made the screens a little lighter.

Its rapidly reaching the point to where I won't even look anymore. I still fail to see the comparison. I really am on dialup dammit.

From what I have been able to ascertain, Orpheus used to post 10 or 20 screens all at once. I am betting that he and I would not get along at all as far as screenshots are concerned.

I am not asking for you to alter your current screens, just make some available for people with my problem.

I swear, its almost like pulling teeth. I seriously haven't even been in the maps forum for weeks. I only came here because of this map. Its very hard to work up any incentive anymore between the inconsiderate people giving me a hard time about screens and my own funk about my connection.

I do have to ask. Didn't Orpheus do anything good? The only time anyone calls me by his name is when they are either upset with me or using him as an example of being a dick.

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There is no history until something happens, then there is.

Underdog, I reduced all of the screenshots to 50/60k'is just for you (and other 56k'ers) I do want to make these things as accessible as possible, and have no problem accommodating people on 56k... I just forgot to check file sizes on those pics when I first uploaded them. I think it's a valid request for people to be efficient with their screenies.

The 'orpheus' statement was more literal than you may have taken it. I have honestly wondered in the past whether you are actually Orpheus reborn. It wouldn't surprise me if the ole chap decided to participate in a somewhat covert way. I mean...where he hell did he dissapear to anyway? I don't mean that as an insult - it's just surreal how both of you share strikingly similar mannerisms, pet-peaves, and viewpoints. Also, your comment about 'people contributing to broken palace'.... orpheus offered alot great input on that map, so I would understand him wanting to be recognized as a participant in it's growth. I don't even know why you would care, though, since you had no part in that.

Anyway... no harm or discrimination intended. Back to the real purpose here, making a good map. I'm working on that rock tutorial this afternoon, and will try to get some solid work done on the map also.

I seem to stumble into things I guess. I asked you 4 or 5 days ago to post some smaller screens and then you post this thread without altering them. That sentence I quoted just irked me because it appeared as if you didn't care whether I ever saw the screens or not.

As I said, I am on 56k. I do not think that anyone whom posted 10 or 20 screens at a whack would like me much. If we are similar, its for reasons I cannot fathom since people only use him in a derogatory fashion when I am in the same posting.

I have no previous claims or concerns about the HL1 version, nor was I insinuating that you were not free with your praise or gratitude back then. I did read the text file that came with the map so I was aware of its origins and the people involved. Seriously though, I was inferring to myself.

I was just irked. You seem to care but then you also seemed to ignore my request.

I will shut up now before I say something else Orphenated. :sad:

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There is no history until something happens, then there is.

Underdog said:
As I said, I am on 56k. I do not think that anyone whom posted 10 or 20 screens at a whack would like me much.

if you can recall, as you say, that an excessive amount of some peoples personal time went into giving finger feedback on a map that was in the making more than two years ago, then i'm sure you'd also recall that even though Orph posted lots of pics, he would also have been more than willing to supply smaller versions of them without hesitation.

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i eat paint

Underdog, you are Orpheus. I am not kidding at all when I say that.

Anyone know of any free writing analyzers on the internet?

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http://maze5.net

I didn't mean to start a s**t-storm here. I know how these threads can spin out of control and I don't want that to happen. Soo.. lets just steer this back to the topic.

One of the major things I'm doing with this map, is creating custom textures that fit the theme. I figured it might be nice to show you guys a few of them. Of course, I've made them small....so if anyone wants a high-res version, contact me and I would be glad to share. When I'm finished, I will put them all up for download.

Here's a trim texture I"m working on. It looks ok ingame, but I'm not happy with the snakeish pattern. I sort of just did it quickly as a test, and plan to go back, reworking it and creating a more interesting dragonish pattern.



This is a sort of deteriorated patterned wall texture. I've made a few variations of this one, as you will see further down. The cool thing about these textures (which you can't see here) is the way I'm using specularity. The greenish faded house pattern has a specularity map applied to it, giving it reflective qualities. This creates the illusion of the nice shiny, reflective bits that you see on alot of asian fabrics and patterns.



Same pattern, without the reflective qualities on the 'print' section. I've also made the pattern darker and more obvious.



This one works well, becuase I've applied specularity to only the flower pattern at the bottom of the texture. You would have to see it ingame to really appreciate it... makes it feel like fancy wallpaper.



Here's that specularity map I was talking about.



Here's another texture with a subtle shiny surface to it. It sort of gives the effect of a dull metal surface, or somewhat glossy material.



Now here's the wood trim texture that I use everywhere. It may look somewhat boring in this screenshot, but it works well ingame. This also has a slight specularity to it, which gives it that nice dark polished wood feeling that I could never get in Broken Palace 1.



Another fancy patterned wall, with subtle specularity on the gold leaves of the pattern.



Here's what I currently have for the lamp texture. This one is definately going to get refined a bit, but it has a lightmap channel which makes part of the texture illuminated. Works well as a lightsource, when you throw in some textured lighting and a nice sprite.



Lastly, this is my paperwall texure that you will see all througout the map. I grunged it up a little where the wood meets the paper, and it looks a little more antique and intersting.



All of these textures were created in photoshop. I've got a few gigs worth of reference pictures that I use for such occasions. What I generally do, is slice up photos and combine lots of different elements from different pics to acheive the look I want. I guess I should maybe do a quick tutorial on creating textures, as it's much easier than people might think. There are a few great photoshop tricks that I use which carry me very far in the process.

Yowza. Great textures! Some thoughts / suggestions / ideas / blah:

o Wood portion on the last 3 textures is kind of low-resolution. Higher-res, the masses demand it!

o I think the paper-wall texture is the odd one out that needs
improvement. Why are some wood portions darker than others? Also,
consider making the paper a less bright and a little duller. In my
experience, bright stuff doesn't work too well in-game, especially
stuff that approaches the color white.... And is that the Photoshop
Canvas texture you used for the paper? If not, they look kind of
similar...

o To me, it seems like the deteriorated wall textures have too many
little details on them that would make repetition very blatant.

Good suggestions Camp.

The wood in the last 2 textures doesn't seem low res ingame, because the texures are scaled down quite a bit. But I'm sure they could use some improvement. They do look somewhat burnt out in places... this hasn't bothered me ingame yet, but maybe it will now that you mention it.

The wall textures look pretty good ingame also. I try to break it up quite a bit, and since they are actually supposed to be some type of fancy wallpaper, I think the repetition actually works for it. Once again.. you'll get a much better sense of how these feel once I release a beta.

They definatley have plenty of room for improvement, though. ... oh and no, that's not the default canvas texture, although it doesn look like a common filter effect :razz:

Freakin' sweet!

These must take a long time...

The textures look nice. I have seen nice textures before and do not automatically assume that they will be utilized to their best ability. Can you show us th same textures used in a way that would show them in action?

The images you posted look nice but do not really say much. They are really to close. I mean, it looks as if I am inches away instead of feet where I should be when viewing them.

Thanks in advance.

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There is no history until something happens, then there is.

Actually, you can see most of those textures in the screenshots I posted. Once I release a playable beta they can be better assessed. They look pretty good to me, ingame, though there is always room for improvement =D

the textures look good, and would look so much better on more interesting surfaces. the paper lamp texture should be on a nice little model. the simple cube that it appears to be on at the moment reminds me too much of how an hl1 lamp would be made. again with the tall wooden support beam things. they're too straight. if the surfaces were a little more interesting, ie displacement surfaces with just a little bit of shape, that would break up the harsh straight edges, and make the texture appear more organic. making some of the roofs into displacements with minor variations could also create that general straightness but overall ricketyness that you'd expect from one of those roofs.

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i eat paint

very true Fishy... I actually fired up Softimage last night and started learning the program. I'm very proficient in 3DsMax, sort of proficient in Maya, but clueless with Softimage...anyway, I'm working on a lamp model right now. I'm thinking about going all out and creating quite a few custom models for the map.

mazemaster said:
Underdog, you are Orpheus. I am not kidding at all when I say that.

hmm.....his name is....jon as well is it not? and what was that
compression prog he was always on about?

Doc B... :dodgy:

btw....finger....very nice work sir.....you make me want to get back to a bit od custom work myself... :wink:

Finally, I had time to look at those screens. Not that they were still to big or anything I just have been busy and... forgot.

Anyway, your maps tend to go for realistic, or relatively realistic so my only two comments presently are this:

Japans mountains and rocks are much to young to be so rounded. The peaks and canyons would be much steeper assuming this setting is in Japan. I would try to make the rocks more severe and jagged if possible.

The flooring. Most notably the broken pieces are much to thick. Floor boards are at most 1/2 inch thick. Well I only know about American flooring but I assume that its fairly approximate everywhere. You look like you have a bunch of broken 2x4's laying around.

Wish I could say more but I seem to have better feelings for maps from the inside. Screenshots do not really show a map well because the author tends to show the best areas in them.

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There is no history until something happens, then there is.

Youre right on both counts. I definately plan on sculpting the rocks more. Also, the floorboards will get a whole facelift once I get around to them. The map geometry was literally imported from HL1 and retextured, so little bits like that need to be reworked for more realistic scale.

Haven't worked on it in about a week :/

when/where can i download this map? If your not going to finish it, can you upload it and post the link so someone can?

I'm sorry. I really should get back to work on this. I kind of dropped my multiplayer maps recently to focus on a personal singleplayer project I am more interested in. It's sort of disheartening seeng only a handful of people playing the game I'm making it for, and even fewer playing custom maps. But.. I forget that there are people who actually look forward to this map, and now you've made me feel all guilty.

I wouldn't dream of letting anyone else take on this project, but I think I will put some time into it and bust ass to get it released. Hell, with HlDM:Source being released with Aftermath (episode 1), there might be a boost in the DM community.

Thanks for inquiring.

Oooh really? I hadn't heard anything about HL1DM:S in ages, so had kinda figured it was being swept under the carpet!

Glad to hear you are still planning on finishing this up Finger - it's really about time I did that with Echo :biggrin:

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[img]http://card.mygamercard.net/sig/Default/reno84.png[/img]
Designer @ Haiku Interactive | ReNo-vation.net

i really can't tell you how greatful i would be for you to finish this
map soon. I'm involved in dm big time. If it is as sweet as it looks in
the screenshots, there would be a ton of people playing your map. I
think DM commun. is growing because many new clans are popping up
lately.

Hope to play it soon!