This map incorporates bits and pieces of layout and architecture ideas I've been collecting in the back of my head for years. Including stuff from unreleased maps (namely dm_vienna) and maps where the source files were lost forever in a HD crash (a zombie master map I've posted some screenshots from in the WIP thread a few months ago).

Since most of my recent mapping attempts grew dangerously out of proportion, I tried doing something smaller, simpler this time. This map should play well for smaller player counts (although it can probably handle a fuller sever as well). There's plenty of vertical movement, something I seem to be addicted to for my map layouts. No ridiculous experiments, no entity work that could crash servers or cause any other kinds of problems. Just good, clean HL2DM action. I've been talking a lot about how much I hate the HL2 skybox collection, so I build a custom one just for the sake of it. I know it's not much better (if better at all) than HL2's but at least I managed to make it work and get rid of that cloudy autumn look.

The current version, I could have called it an alpha, but went with "beta" instead as this naming might be less confusing. There is no real detailing in this map. Especially the roofs, which are quite a prominent place for gameplay, are in desperate need of trims and proper texturing. Everything's still pretty flat. Feel free to comment on things that look strikingly bad, but I'm probably going to re-build most of the visuals anyway. Things like layout issues and tips for weapon placement are most appreciated.

---

Why snark works.

The screens are beautiful. All most like a Greeting card.
I'll hold off comments until i have a run through, but i have to say from the screens alone, it looks like it could make a good Counter Strike map.

---

Reality has become a commodity.

I don't have death match installed so i loaded it into CS:S and specked around.

Reaper! By what stretch of the imagination did you consiter this a small project. This map is big. Falling just short of huge.

The layout is excellent. It was fun to walk (ok, fly) around and go up the the different levels and to walk around on the different roofs.
Flow is good. It was easy to move to one area to the next and were well connected.
Even though it is more connected than any real building it seamed extremely believable. You never see to many doorways at once. It felt natural being their.
You have some vary long unobstructed hallways. This should be good fun for the crossbow. I hope it doesn't become a optimization problem for you.

The largest courtyard (first pic) is well connected to the lower levels but the trek to the ladder to get to the roof is a bit long if your coming from the left side. If your trying to limit traffic to the roof then i guess this is a good thing. Another issue with the largest court yard is that i see it being empty most of the time. The map being so well connected and havening that valley following the street, their is no reason to be there. Id be avoiding it because of rocket and grave gun grenade fire. Now if you put a way to the roof there then it would draw people.

I don't know about you but when i was a kid i liked get up on the roof because i knew i wasn't supposed to. It was dangerous; witch is is why it was fun and why my parents didn't like it. Your roof tops steep angels give them a nice sense of danger. I also get the idea that I'm not supposed to be there. The jump you have to make from those balcony's give that impression. The window, witch i can only assume, you have to break to get to roof does that also. The ladder seam a little easy. It's like your saying "hear, get on the roof". Maybe you could add something to make it look like something your not supposed to touch. Like a busted gate that was blocking it or something like that.

The flow is good in this map. Maybe too good. I worry that with less than 10 people that people would run in endless circles rarely finding one another. After some play testing you might find that you need to close a path or two.

What i said about this map possibly making a good CS:S map, ya. This would make a excellent CS:S map. When your done making your HL2DM map, I would be ecstatic to hear that your porting it to CS.

Keep up the work. I see a 5 star map on the way.

---

Reality has become a commodity.

Love it so far! First thing I do on maps is see how fast i can go without stopping, I had a laugh shotgunning windows out in sequence on a downward run. Like an action movie!

I would call this medium, myself, not huge. Unless there's somewhere I didnt see, crashed after 5 mins. One note, your skybox did not appear, I got checkers.

The spiral stairs are beauteous, very nice little grotto there. I did think the other railings, on the normal stairs, were perhaps 2 or 3 units too high, but then I adjusted my jump and got it anyway.

Flow is great; though I kept expecting a larger area around the corner. For that reason and personal opinion I urge you to consider losing the SLAMS, this layout does not need them in the slightest. I only find them sporting when the server is full, and that is a rare occurance in this game.

As to detail, this is probably just me, but I did not notice a marked lack of it. I can see you'll want to finesse windows etc, but FPS was very nice as it is. I have confidence it won't be a huge issue anyway.

Reaper! By what stretch of the imagination did you consiter this a small project. This map is big. Falling just short of huge.

lol, it's so funny to read that. If you knew just how big this could have grown if I didn't consciously plan it to be small. I just tend to loose my sense of proportion when it comes to map-size. You're probably absolutely right there. Although movement is much faster in HL2DM than in CSS, I suppose.

Anyways. Thanks for the input. I'm just scanning through it and will probably be back to stubbornly defend all my worst decisions in page-long posts.

This is the state I feel most comfortable still changing huge parts. So please, keep the feedback coming! It's hugely appreciated.

[edit]

Thanks again for the feedback.

Redwood, the point about the largest courtyard becoming empty is a very interesting one to me. It's something I didn't consider although I did feel like it being a difficult area to make attractive. I can't think of a good way of adding roof access there. The best idea I could come up with is adding more goodies. Which doesn't sound very thoughtful. Maybe adding a few spawn points there, to force them violently! No, really, I'm trying to come up with something. If anyone has an idea for this, feel free to post.

Too good flow? I dunno. I hoped for the rooftops being an irresistible place to reach so players would always meet up there or at one of the access points. Am I interpreting this right, are you suggesting the map being too large? It's what I read from "players never finding each other".

haymaker, sorry for the trippy skybox errors. I compiled them using the no-mipmap option because otherwise you'd see these strange artefacts on medium texture settings. I should have tested it better.

I was struggling about adding the SLAM. I must admit, I like them. You may be right about the layout being too tight for them. Consider them removed for the next version.

---

Why snark works.

I don't think the map is to large. I just think if you only had 6 or so players in the map they be contently searching for each other. If the roof is a central goal then i guess that solves the problem.
If your roof is the center of attention then the largest court yard need to be populated with people too. No point in being on the roof if there is no one to kill. Finding a way to have people want to pass through the large court yard and the long hallway would be the best way to get people to want be on the roof.
The majority of the inside area is poor for grav gun action. I think your best bet for getting people to go to the large court is the have a good assortment of grav gun ammo. I don't know if that car is prop_phy or not but i love rolling those things down a street. Right now the street is a little narrow for g gun fun. Maybe you could widen up the side walk and push the building back about 80 or more units.
Maybe you can find a way around it but i think having people spawn in the large court would cause spawn camping.
I like the slams. It seem the people who really don't like them are the people who never use them. Pleas leave them.
Your map seams relatively finished all ready. It shouldn't take you to long to polish it up. Good luck.

---

Reality has become a commodity.

Hmm, I'll try and think that through.

About the SLAMs: I like them too, but I've heard so many good arguments against having them in maps, maps with narrow corners especially. Actually, putting them in was a last-minute decision, I wasn't very convinced about. I'm leaning more towards removing them. Probably I should wait to see how it plays with SLAMs first and make my decision then.

---

Why snark works.

I think 8-10 players would be the sweetspot for this map

The layout and flow look good, item placement seems solid. Some areas seem like they might be a little too twisty (basement). This is a rare map where I think the muffler would work well because of the confined spaces (that thing is brutal).

I'm a SLAM-whore, so I'll always say yes to SLAMs, hell put a whole bunch of 'em and enjoy the carnage :evilgrin:

---

o

This is a rare map where I think the muffler would work well because of the confined spaces (that thing is brutal).

Muffler?

---

Reality has become a commodity.

Muffler?

---

Why snark works.

Unless I'm mistaken that's what that is. It hurts to get hit with it. A lot. It's bulky and spins though, so can clip walls, rails, etc and bounce away harmlessly. In open spaces it's a one-hit kill for some distance.

---

o

<html><head><link rel="stylesheet" href="themes/standard.css" type="text/css"></head><body topmargin=2 leftmargin=2>

He must be referring to the orb.

This is the wrong place to discuss slams, but the bottom line is that they slow the game down considerably. The reason I play dm is speed. 1v1 on powerhouse? boooooring.

edit; haha beat me to it baron. There is a muffler!

I just downloaded and played the map. The first thing I noticed was the b0rked skybox. Your custom texture comes out completely malformed for some reason (so not just a checkers texture). But that shouldn't be too hard to fix I suppose.

The map isn't too hard to learn, although indeed the basements and inside area's are a bit twisty and harder to remember, but it's still fairly easy to get a hold of the map. I quite like the look and feel of it. Perhaps with some mountains in the background for added sense of place and you've really got a pittoresque mountain village right there. The map also looks fairly well connected, although that small street really is at a disadvantage against roofhoppers, and there's no way to get on top directly from that area.

On the other hand, the map is pretty small, and many area's are narrow and feel cramped. There's virtually no room for strafing in the inside area's. The outside area's are somewhat better but still pretty small overall. The roof area's are accessible, but due to the slanted surfaces and irky connections, they'll require quite some maneuvring skills to navigate around on. There's a few other spots too where movement just doesn't really flow right (in the screenshot that Baron von Snickers posted, that small staircase downwards on the right: it's too easy to run into those railings next to it, it's as if the map only permits players to get out of that trench, not into).

As for the RPG, it's actually pretty easy to get. Throw a grenade up there and it comes tumbling down. Or grav-grab it when standing on a roof nearby. Besides, one spawnpoint is even right next to the RPG! Aww...

So yeah, I dunno. I like the style, but it looks like it'll be too cramped for me to really enjoy. I'm all in for a playtest though: only reality can tell. :wink:

---

Create-ivity - a game development blog

lol, I thought "the muffler" was a metaphor for a weapon. I see...

I could beat myself for the very avoidable skybox error, what a bad start.

I'll try and fix that ASAP. In fact, it shouldn't take more than ten minutes so I'll probably do a beta1a or something right now.

Anyway...

Thanks for you thoughts, Captain P. I can see your argument about the cramped insides. I'm not too proud of these parts. Unfortunately, there aren't too many ways to build a staircase and I desperately needed them to get even close to the layout I had in mind. The issue won't stay unconsidered, though.

I must admit, that it's hard for me to understand your complaints about some of the other movement issues, especially the one about the little staircase. If I wanted to get down there I would just jump over the railing. It's so natural, I dare to think that the majority of players would just jump over it without even noticing the inconvenience. Maybe I'm wrong. Or are you suggesting heated backward-strafing in which case you wouldn't even see the railings? My original fear was that getting out of the trench would be too hard, but that doesn't seem to be the problem now.

I don't want to steal your time, but I'd be very grateful if you could make a few quick screens of spots you find particulary disruptive for movement. I can imagine a few spots which I consider to be rather temporary solutions, but it would be nice to see how new-comers struggle with certain places.

The RPG, consider it work in progress. I originally considered removing the RPG altogether, but there are so few weapons in this game... The spawnpoint is a relict from an older idea and the only reason I kept it was to make eventual roof-campers watch their backs. It's too easy to grenade or grab it down there...

Yea... well, thanks everybody! So much to learn...

I'll just do a very quick recompile to fix the obnoxious skybox error and after that I'd love to see this map run on a test-server.

[edit]

I just replaced the download with the newest version, beta1a, which should fix the skybox.

---

Why snark works.

The rocket, leave it man. I managed to make that jump no problem from the roof; but given the insides of the map the weapon is of limited use except to someone very skilled at it. If you want to to make it harder to access you could put it inside a func_clip_vphysics box, then the ggun won't work.

If you want to to make it harder to access you could put it inside a func_clip_vphysics box, then the ggun won't work.

Good idea... grenades should still get it down easily, though (but less controlled).

---

Why snark works.

I had some nostalgia to play Death Mach so i reinstalled HL2DM. I joined a server running a custom map, took the time to download it, started playing and instantly remembered why i deleted DM in the first place. s**tty, sad, depressing, maps... with low gravity. :rolleyes:

After that i started up your map. I have to say it seams much smaller then when i was speking around in counter strike. I don't know if it was a fov thing or just that i wasn't actually walking but loading it into DM made a difference. I have changed my opinion on the size of the map. You were right, I would also say it's a medium(larger medium) sized map. I'm guessing the map would play well with 6 to 20 players (but what do i know). I still say the map is vary well connected.
I was surprised to find that the R launcher wasn't on the roof considering you said you were trying to draw attention to it, but wear you have it placed means that i don't think your court yard will be empty like i said i though it would. I did find it odd that the AR2 was directly below the R launcher.
I'm not saying it is in a bad spot, but as fun as it is, it's a real bitch to hit a moving target with the crossbow form a elevated position (this might just be me).
Your spiral stare cases looks good but they were a little clunky to walk up.

Thats all i can think of for now. Sorry if any my comments earlier were frustrating you buy giving you bad/inaccurate feed back. I'll load it into dm first next time.

EDIT:
ps: nice sky, looks real enough.

---

Reality has become a commodity.

This is the first time I have seen this thread.

I really like the second picture. The spiral stair case, the railings, the vines and the textures you used in this space all work together really good. It kinda reminds me of some exotic scene from Italy or Greece. I like the lighting variation to with the light greenish bluish light at the bottom and the more yellowish lighting at the middle and the top.

The first picture is ok, but I felt like I've seen it all before. The buildings look linear and boxy and have no character at all. The buildings look something I would see from counter-strike CZ (in goldsource). Try to maybe make instead of a brush covered in a texture, make it more 3D. Make the windows indent in. Make some things pop out a bit. Also, from the position you took the screenshot from, the roofs look really bare. I have seen some great "roof" models in source that you could probably add in there. And maybe add a piece of paper here, and a milk carton there to, the ground looks a bit bare.

Also, the wooden building with the glass windows on the left of the picture, looks a bit strange, I think you should tweak that a bit, and the roof that is currently on the building and the wood don't really match imo.

Anyways, I look foward to seeing the final version :biggrin:

---

Aaron's Stuff

I was surprised to find that the R launcher wasn't on the roof considering you said you were trying to draw attention to it, but wear you have it placed means that i don't think your court yard will be empty like i said i though it would. I did find it odd that the AR2 was directly below the R launcher.
I'm not saying it is in a bad spot, but as fun as it is, it's a real bitch to hit a moving target with the crossbow form a elevated position (this might just be me).
Your spiral stare cases looks good but they were a little clunky to walk up.

Thats all i can think of for now. Sorry if any my comments earlier were frustrating you buy giving you bad/inaccurate feed back. I'll load it into dm first next time.

EDIT:
ps: nice sky, looks real enough.

haymaker is running the map on his server right now, giving me a chance to playtest extensively. I don't know if you saw the map in action so far but right now, the map should still be running on this server:

8.6.3.240:27015

Thanks again, haymaker!

I found some of the issues I was afraid of not to be issues at all (size! it works great with 4 ppl and even below, I'm even afraid that it gets cramped with 16 players but that should be alright; 6-8 ppl should be ideal and that's the HL2DM average).

SLAM doesn't seem to be in the way much from what I experienced, I'll keep it until I find a very good reason to get rid of it.

I like placing powerful weapons in range of each other, it kinda balances things out IMO. Whether putting the AR2 under the RPG was a good idea: I don't know for sure, I think it works.

The stairs should get a fix sometimes soon, I'm not completely satisfied with them so far.

aaron, this is a beta with blocky brushwork and temporary texturing. I'm planning to do most of the things you mentioned but wanted to get all layout issues fixed first. I wasn't sure if putting up any screenshots at all even makes sense at this stage, but I decided to have a few as they at least give a general sense of the place.

---

Why snark works.

reaper47 said:
I wasn't sure if putting up any screenshots at all even makes sense at this stage

Always post screenshots, no matter at what stage. Anyway, I would play this map right now, but my laptop is broken and I have to send it to repairs. I'm using a 500mhz 128mb ram machine at the moment with a big bulky monitor.

---

Aaron's Stuff

This is definitely a small map, I dunno what the other commenters above are seeing. Looks like it would be good with 2-8 players, any more and it'll become a brutal bloodbath of the unfun kind I'd think. I like the general layout alot, it is very dense and vertical, which is great. It's easy to get where you want to go and there are multiple paths to each area. I dunno if you've ever been to San Francisco, California but the spiral staircase courtyard area reminds me of an area of Ghiradelli Square which always looked like a kickass dm arena to me :biggrin: .

About the RPG, I couldn't reach it by jumping but I assume that roof can be jumped to. If not, ignore the following: its placement is good, in that it's difficult to reach and in a wide open area with lots of different vantage points, making it dangerous to get. However, its location and the tightness of the indoor areas makes using it outside of that open area pointless which could promote some camping tendencies. That's not a bad thing though, especially with how a camper could be taken down from many different angles, but it's food for thought. I too think there's too few weapons to exclude it but oh well. EDIT: If there actually is a spawn point up there I'd remove it. The RPG is already exposed enough and annoying enough to get, why let people spawn there and get it without the slightest bit of effort.

A smaller complaint is that the toilet near the Breen statue doesn't respawn when destroyed, and given the sparse amount of props to throw it probably should. I understand not wanting to have alot of physics props cluttering the map and making the narrow areas a chore to move around, but I also think the grav gun is the whole point of HL2DM and not catering to it is a bad idea. Going overboard with them is probably not a good idea in general, I'd like it, but most people would probably complain. A possible solution I think would be to have a few more smaller, breakable, and respawning props strewn about, perhaps one or two per general area (roofs, road, indoor stairwell area, outdoor spiral stair area, etc). I know there's already the Breen statue, some crates, and I suggested the toilet, but what about a watermelon or two on the roofs, a sink somewhere? Because they are breakable they won't clutter things up as much and players could have a reliable source of grav gun 'ammo' throughout the map.

Which brings me to the final comment about the cramped corridors of the map. It is way too narrow and small for my taste. There's too many areas that are basically one player wide which doesn't allow for much maneuvering. The connecitivity between areas kinda alleviates this, but it's still a problem. However, that 'crampiness' is what makes the map so dense (which is a good thing). This is basically the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" aspect of HL2DM mapping that I hate and why I don't bother with it anymore. Players move so slowly that bigger areas and wider hallways slow the action to a crawl, but those bigger areas and wider hallways are important for deathmatch combat. So either you get good combat but terrible flow/slow movement or you get fast movement but harsher combat. You really can't have both in my experience. Personally, I'd leave it mostly as it is, as the layout and density of the map is its strength. You'll probably receive flak but that's the nature of HL2DM :/

All in all though I like this map, and its main design flaws are inherent with the game you're mapping for so oh well, what can you do.

If there actually is a spawn point up there I'd remove it.

It's gone in Beta1a. I forgot to mention.

A smaller complaint is that the toilet near the Breen statue doesn't respawn when destroyed, and given the sparse amount of props to throw it probably should.

Nice find, thanks. It should be a respawnable and obviously isn't. Simply forgot about it! I love ggun gameplay, the only reason I didn't place more is because I wanted to be careful and only add what fits the layout. There should be more "ammunition" in the next version.

About the crampiness: I too can't really find a way to get rid of it. What I'm trying to do is tune the pathways to create a minimum of bumps and friction. For example, I'm re-orienting the upper half of the spiral staircase to have a continuous, clockwise motion for climbing up. Also there are a few clips missing, the inner staircase can also be widened (by making the handrail props non-solid and reducing clips to a minimum). Ultimately, however, some tighter corridors will stay.

Thanks for having a look, Yak, I appreciate.

[edit]

I just though I'd share this with anyone interested: The toilet was a working prop_physics_respawnable! The reason it didn't show up was that the model (not the center of the model but the outer borders, probably of the physics-box) was slightly intersecting with the wall behind it. Just a centimeter or less. I moved it out a little bit and now it works.

---

Why snark works.

Just had a look around the map, and i must say i am impressed. That circular stairway is brush based right?. The map seems small-ish to me so i may be missing a bunch of it but i think I ran through the whole place pretty thouroughly. The Layout is good. Cramped and short-ish corridors will keep you moving.

The roof:

Not too sure about that. It seems somewhat abrupt. I feel like I want more rooftops to wreak havoc from above on.

I will not get into texturing and nit picking as this is a beta.

There is a garage door under the awning with the RPG. Its squished right up against the wall to it's right (as you look at it). Seems like it could be moved to the left a bit to accomodate enough wall for a track or hinge or whatever.

Also the awning that the rpg is on top of looks too perfectly square for the corrugated metal texture. Maybe you could change it (the texture) or warp it up a bit with some displacement.

Also, I don't know if there's any custom light models out there (I'm sure there is?) but the flourescent fixtures seem so tidy and out of place within the rustic style setting you have created. Needs something more quaint or decorative.

My final observation is the architecture. You have plenty of Fps to spare throughout most of this map. Perhaps breaking up the architecture with some definition would be nice. Mmmmm....definition.

And thats all for now. Great job so far Reap.

---

Quote from Nietzsche....God is dead
Quote from God....Nietzsche is dead

That circular stairway is brush based right?.

Yes! And entirely on-grid, also.

I have added a little more detail to beta2 (which should come out tomorrow or this evening). I couldn't quite address all the things you mentioned but there should be a little more eye candy now. Not quite the final pass, though, I have so many more ideas for subtle detailing (and FPS to spare).

Thanks!

---

Why snark works.

Watch that 'fps to spare' notion; during that playtest I was hitting 39- 40 standing under the rocket roof. I'd suggest concentrating most detail outside of that visleaf if possible.

Watch that 'fps to spare' notion; during that playtest I was hitting 39- 40 standing under the rocket roof. I'd suggest concentrating most detail outside of that visleaf if possible.

The rocket-roof area is inside a hint brush now, so the whole backyard doesn't render from there anymore. That should balance things out. A lot of hinting left to do, but I think it should run well.

I added a bit of brush detail to the buildings, but I honestly don't think it will show up in FPSs. I'm curious, what hardware are you on, haymaker? I get a constant 100 FPS in this map, and that running on "high" and 1280x960 on my humble radeon 9800.

Speaking of optimization... I tuned some of the high-res lightmaps and now the filesize has actually shrunk by over 2MB despite the added content. That came pretty unexpected.

---

Why snark works.

I didn't realize you had more optimization to do, should have known...Considering it wasnt fully done, it runs great.

I think my performance problems stem from my cpu's difficulty in processing networking on top of physics rendering ( A64 3000+ ). On a listen server I get noticeably better fps on all maps, which is to be expected. Full server running spookface? Good night.

I have absolutely everything possible turned off graphically, and I run under dx7 on my aging 6600gt. So I guess, take my comment with a grain of salt; I'm driving a model-T but it's trimmed to race.

Looking forward to the next build!

A64 3000+ ... I have exactly the same processor!

And a 6600gt is better than my 9800. You should be able to run the game at high settings, DX9 with excellent FPS. Strange. Maybe a card-driver issue? I can't imagine that physics and network data would overcharge a processor.

---

Why snark works.

Beta2 released!

Here's what I changed so far:

- fixed the toilet, it should respawn properly now
- it's now possible to pick up the bricks in the cellar
- changed some of the stairwells to hopefully allow for better movement
- added numerous clip-brushes
- added some detail, especially to the rooftop areas
- added some lights to dark spots
- removed a cellar room that had no purpose
- redid physics-prop placement (many new, some gone)
- raised number of spawnpoints to 16
- reduced filesize by >2MB by tuning high-res lightmaps
- lots of minor fixes and details

The next update should bring this very close to final. I have a few details I'd like to add, some doorframes, a few more brushes for the buildings' facades and roofs, a couple of trims and texturing fixtures... Otherwise I'm pretty much done.

It's time for the nit-picking. If you find any small details you find annoying but otherwise hardly worth mentioning... please mention them. Missing clip-brushes, item-placement, minor (or major) texturing errors, spots that look odd, spots that are hard to move around etc...

I'm sure there's a lot of this stuff and I feel a little blind for it right now. I'm in a not-broken-don't-fix-it state for the layout, most of the general feedback was positive so I'll keep it the way it is so far. But if you have any more complaints regarding layout and basic structure please fell free to post them as well.

---

Why snark works.

Hey thanks man for the the compliment the other day in my narnia map thread. :smile:

I ran around your "balcony" map a lot a few days ago and really enjoyed it. Great detail work which as a mapper myself...I love! Also I liked your env_soundscapes for that map.

Great work on that map so far!

Cheers,

Redclaw

PS - Love the placement of the crossbow too!

---

All that you know is at an end.

Well, thanks! :smile:

---

Why snark works.

I've been - and still am - quite busy the last days, as I just started my final internship, so I won't be able to comment on the latest version this week. Anyway, is the map still up on a server or such?

---

Create-ivity - a game development blog

It's not running anywhere for "official" playtesting but I see it running on several servers from time to time. Just try the map filter for "dm_balcony_beta2" in the server browser.

---

Why snark works.

Pretty sweet, I really love the displacement rooftops, they just look right. A few really minor things:

The bare concrete facade above the rocket launcher looks a little odd. It stands out as pretty bare and the skybox chops it off really short. Maybe more windows, drain pipe, etc?


Should this metal texture go all the way back to the wall? I guess that's really personal preference, but it looks a little odd to me.


Third, the light in the toilet alcove doesn't look like it has a source. Maybe just a bare bulb?


Looks really fun, can't wait until you release it!

The bare concrete facade above the rocket launcher looks a little odd. It stands out as pretty bare and the skybox chops it off really short. Maybe more windows, drain pipe, etc?

Yes, this part... let's just say I had a very similar spot in another map that unfortunately died in a harddisk crash. Now in this other map, the bare concrete wall looked really good, as a contrast to the more detailed fa?ades around it. Well, the fa?ades aren't as detailed yet as they should be and I didn't quite get the shape right. This part should change quite a bit with the next eye-candy update. But it's always good to be reminded. I already started getting used to the bare concrete wall to much. :wink:

Should this metal texture go all the way back to the wall? I guess that's really personal preference, but it looks a little odd to me.

Hmmm... didn't quite get this one. Where should the metal texture stop in your opinion? I'm planing to retexture this part and add a few supports, make the railings cleaner brushwork etc., so I might actually have a plan for what bothers you, I just don't quite understand what you mean with "going all the way back to the wall"? Do you mean there should be a trim or border in between?

---

Why snark works.

Sorry about that, I should have been clearer. The pink part in the picture is how far back I thought it should go, just to match up with the outside texture border circled on the right. The concrete strip just kind of stands out as a little odd. Again, more of a personal preference than anything.
The other is the abrupt transition from the outside wall texture to the inside wall texture, the circled bit. It could probably use one of the supports you were talking about adding.

OK, thanks again.

---

Why snark works.

So I picked up Hammer again and I'm am planning to finish Beta 3 this week. Since there's been a lot of feedback regarding polishing issues and lacking visual detail, the next release will feature quite a bit of eye-candy updates. Many of the things mentioned here have been fixed. I'm also adding another layer of detail to the main street area. Here's a WIP shot of the re-done window-less fa?ade in the corner:



We'll see where this goes.

---

Why snark works.

Looking good.

I think i forgot to mention that the last time i ran around your map that the sky was a little low. I was bouncing some objects off the top of it it with the G gun. Just though u should know.
I look forward to seeing more of your work.

---

Reality has become a commodity.

I think i forgot to mention that the last time i ran around your map that the sky was a little low. I was bouncing some objects off the top of it it with the G gun. Just though u should know.

Ahh, yes, I'll fix that, thanks.

---

Why snark works.

So, I'd say Beta 3 is finished. I'll try and upload it tomorrow if no obnoxious, little bug shows up in the meantime.

This will be almost entirely a detail/eyecandy update. All the buildings have a few re-texturing, extra polygons and prop_statics added to them. There's a new, little toilet that I doubt has any true impact on gameplay. I also changed the upper catwalk near the spiral staircase to guide the movement away from the dead-end (hard to explain and not worth a screenshot). Also there are 2 new soundscapes.

Well, here are some screens. First one shows the cellar area which got a nicer ceiling.





Stay tuned!

---

Why snark works.

Alright, Beta 3 is out! Grab it now over at fpsbanana!

Please give it a quick check if it runs and all custom files are properly included, so I can get out a Beta 3a before the eventual bugginess spreads. If it works, then fine!

I'll try and expose the map to a few more forums and other places to get a final round of feedback. Otherwise I'd say it's pretty much done!

Any kind of criticism is more than welcome, of course.

---

Why snark works.

Nice detailing all around. I'm not one for nitpicking those things and i couldn't see anything really, except perhaps some of the light fixtures look out of place somehow. The one by the FOTO shop window anyway.

The only gameplay niggle I could find was a useless but possible access to the high roofs

[img=http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/1277/dmbalconybeta30001ax8.th.jpg]

and a potential frustration point in these pipes, maybe player clip them/ move them tighter to wall/ render non-solid. I am always the one stuck on these things it seems

[img=http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/5405/dmbalconybeta30006ay8.th.jpg]

Other than that, performance is awesome. Seems much the same as 1a. This would be final if it was mine I'd say!

I'm glad you have no performance problems, haymaker! I felt a bit bad for almost ignoring your concerns regarding performance and adding hundreds of extra polygons to all sorts of places, most of which are unimportant background detail. It confirms my theory about worldbrush polygons having little to no impact on performance if added consciously.

I'll clip those places you mentioned off. I was thinking about doing a nice, clean clipping of all the inaccessible rooftops but then I thought... they're inaccessible, so what for?

Which brings to the question: How the hell did you get up there? :biggrin:

Well, every theoretical exploit will be used, eventually. So I'll play it save and block off all the roofs.

---

Why snark works.

Oh yes, it looks much more improved in the screen shots. I'll download this and check it out.

---

Aaron's Stuff

That definitely looks worthy of a playthrough in my book; I'll get back to you with a review later this week...

---

Blog: www.playingarchitecture.net
LinkedIn: Eric Lancon
Twitter:@Riven202

I had a run through and loved it. Can't wait to play a round on it.


Nice trap. It's simple and it works. I liked it.
Those two wire points should be rearranged. Looks awkward.


My opinion is that this just never looked right. It sticks out like a sore thumb.


I can see edges. You might turn up the the power.
There is no transition. You might add some overlays so it fades to the brick better.


Same thing with the transition and the power is way to low. I don't know how you made that ladder but it really speeds up the climb. Nice job


Too white. It burns my eye. It's up to you though.


I never understood why this model is like this. You need a sprite to hide that cone thing.


That edge needs a player clip.


The window ledge should be clip or the ledge it self should be made non solid. I recommend the ladder because space is already constricted.


It's up to you, but seeing how its a DM map i would clip that edge. Keep things as smooth as possible.


Those are some tall ass stairs.


This floor could use a cubemap. Even if you can't tell in the screen.

Various nodrawing opportunity's. I don't know what the odd angels of your roofs will allow.



When you get to your final compiles you might consiter turning up the light map detail on the roofs. I think it would add a nice effect.


My biggest complaint about detail brushes. The don't handle light to well. This one just stuck out more than usual.

Hope that helps. I look forward to seeing the final product. It's incredible, in my opinion, how fast this map came together. I guess that what happen when you have a clear vision.

---

Reality has become a commodity.

Great feedback there, Redwood! I could slap myself for some of the missing clips!

Question: what exactly is it that bothers you about the street lights here I wouldn't know what else to do with them and I really want lights like that. Is it about the two, parallel wires that go up to the left?

And do you know any good methods to get rid of light-bleeding through func_details (as seen here and on a few other places)? I tried additional tools/blocklight brushes, but they didn't work. I tried sticking the brush into the wall a little and it didn't work... I'll redo the ramps as world brushes, it shouldn't hurt performance at all, but still this is a very weird issue.

Thanks!

---

Why snark works.

The thing that bothers me about the street lights is that it is a blatant indoor florescent light. It look out of place hanging in the air. The wires are fine. You just might consiter using a different prop.

I think your right about the best option for the bleeding is to turn the ramp into a world brush. You could also try slicing the wall behind it along the bottom or top edge of the ramp. I found that the bleeding will stop at the edge of a brush. I doubt that the compiler would react badly to it.

Glad to be of help!

---

Reality has become a commodity.