Half-Life 2 so different

I have made threads about the topic in question before.

When I first played Half-Life 2 I couldn't fathom how different it was to Half-Life 1. From the labs of Black Mesa to Ravenholm? You would have thought they were completely and utterly unrelated games.

Also, the interactivity in Half-Life 2 seemed to be greatly reduced from that of Half-Life 1. As an example of this, the people who you come across don't seem to be reliable like they were on Half-Life 1. A Barney would constantly shoot any head crabs whereas the rebels of Half-Life 2 seem to run around a lot and do less shooting.

The graphics of Half-Life 2 have a much less "solid" feel if you know what I mean. On Half-Life 1 with the high definition pack on everything was nice and chunky and detailed in their texture, whereas on H-Life 2 things are still detailed, but you can step through things like bodies. On Half-Life 1 you would feel when you walked over something. The variety of enemies is also a lot less.

The weapons also don't feel as nice. When you used the Magnum on Half-Life 1 it would feel all chunky and powerful. But on Half-Life 2 it just feels like a picture which an animation and a sound playing when you shoot it. And Gordon doesn't fiddle with the weapons anymore either. Infact, he doesn't even move them around. They just stay there, static, unless the player moves.

I have just been looking at the Half-Life nostalgia project, that is what triggered all this http://nostalgia.planethalflife.gamespy.com/halflife/cuttings/im_spring98b.jpg

Use of the high def pack invalidates any opinion you could have on this subject.

Why don't you like the high definition pack?

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Just Kidding

Just Kidding

Yeah, there is a big difference between Half-life 1 and Half-life 2 in terms of.. everything and it feels different but I think the differences are justified and are perfectly fine, I mean, its a different game, there is better technology available now, different location...

Also, Half-life 2 makes heavy use of fog including indoor spaces, so that's probably why things don't feel "sharp and chunky".

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Aaron's Stuff

Flynn said:
Why don't you like the high definition pack?

Probably because it looks like crap and arbitrarily changes things that didn't need changing. You complain about HL2 'looking so different' and then use a model pack that changes all the original HL ones and makes 'em way worse.

I am shocked that you say the High Definition pack looked crap. It fleshed out the models (take Barney's body armour and helmet for example) and it added detail like on the security badges; you could actually see the photographs clearly on the scientists and security guard's uniforms.

The detail and depth it added to everything was immense. All the model textures were high resolution. Everything was so much more solid looking with it. The Barnys looked very weird without the H.D. pack, but with the H.D. pack they looked all youthful and had colour in their cheeks like a Barney should have. How you can justify your critism of the H.D. pack is entirely beyond comprehension

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Just Kidding

Just Kidding

Flynn can you post some photos of before and after the HD pack.. please.

The security guard in the middle is the one with the High Definition pack: This is of the shotgun without the High Definition pack: This is the shotgun with the High Definition pack: Zombies: Without: With: Search "Half-life High Definition pack" in Google and it has some more results.

Sorry about the blurry images. The image tags appear to have made them a standard size even though some are small.

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Just Kidding

Just Kidding

Thank you.. I can see where the HD pack improved the look and feel of the old.. this reminds me of my gaming days on the C64. I recall the images as full fledged 3D renderings and then when I go back and look at them, I am like thats not what I remember it looking like. I am spoiled now on the better looking stuff.. look at the barney progression. You have to admit the last one is far Superior.

Thank you though its good to see where we have come from and where we are going..

Fitrst,it donesn't to talk about it,because the Source engine makes the game more real loking
Second,if the HD pack isnt made from Valve,so the models arent original(anyway from hwo is made the HD pack?).

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Either Gearbox or Turtle Rock are responsible for the dreadful HD pack.

The biggest problem I had was the alteration of the shotgun and the MP5. Just looked naff, and didn't feel like the original game. I found generally that those who played Half Life when it was a new game didn't care for the HD pack, those who played it later (OP4 + Blueshift onwards) seemed to like the HD pack. Because they were stupid, probably!

Muhnay said:
Thank you.. I can see where the HD pack improved the look and feel of the old.. this reminds me of my gaming days on the C64. I recall the images as full fledged 3D renderings and then when I go back and look at them, I am like thats not what I remember it looking like. I am spoiled now on the better looking stuff.. look at the barney progression. You have to admit the last one is far Superior.

Thank you though its good to see where we have come from and where we are going..

Obviously the last Barney looks the best, Muhnay. That is Half-Life 2. I would like to focus on the difference between the original Half-Life and the improvement that the H.D. pack made. What I am trying to understand is why Yak_fighter says that the High Definition pack looked like "crap" as he put it.

It is a huge improvement on the original models. Everything looks just spot on with the H.D. pack. Those soldiers look nice and chunky, and their faces are those of the stereotypical hansome and tough movie soldiers(I would love to know who there based on actually). The Barney looks all nice and youthful instead of looking like a frail old man. You can see the scientists ties swing when they walk for christs sake! How detailed is that!? Imagine the effort that went into the whole thing. I am bemused that someone says such an upgrade looks like crap.

I would like to get back on topic but I want to settle this shit first

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Just Kidding

Just Kidding

Oh man, the shotgun is the worst of the HD models. If you look at it, it looks like the old shotgun with some extra fluff at the top.

I wouldn't use the HD models over the original Valve models for playing Half-life 1, but when I was making my doomed Half-Life mod, I did use a handful of models from various HD packs because it just looked better in context.

Flynn said:
You can see the scientists ties swing when they walk for christs sake! How detailed is that!?

Yeah that's all good and whatever, but the ties actually go through the model :-o! And cause glitches when viewed from a distance, which is probably an engine error.

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Aaron's Stuff

Gwil said:
Either Gearbox or Turtle Rock are responsible for the dreadful HD pack.

The biggest problem I had was the alteration of the shotgun and the MP5. Just looked naff, and didn't feel like the original game. I found generally that those who played Half Life when it was a new game didn't care for the HD pack, those who played it later (OP4 + Blueshift onwards) seemed to like the HD pack. Because they were stupid, probably!

Charming. Again you are calling the models "naff" without actually specifying anything. The shotgun looks like a shotgun is supposed to look like with the H.D. pack! It is all chunky and heavy looking and when you fire it it sounds powerful. The original one was just pathetic. About the M.P.-5, since when is having a grenade launcher on an M.P.-5 realistic...? The M-4 was far nicer looking a realistic. The H.D. pack models were also far more detailed.

aaron_da_killa said:
Yeah that's all good and whatever, but the ties actually go through the model :-o! And cause glitches when viewed from a distance, which is probably an engine error.

That's just nitpicking. I didn't even notice what you speak of. That shows how tiny a bug it must have been. I would rather have a tiny little glitch than ties which are part of the model skin!

It is as though the H.D. pack was a person and it said something personal to spite you guys or something the way you speak of it.

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Just Kidding

Just Kidding

You overlooked the key point - generally, people (myself included) who knew the vanilla models didn't like the HD pack.

Okay so you are saying that you prefered the Vanilla models even though they were less detailed less realistic and less pleasing to use...

Surely you can appreciate the huge amount of work that went into the H.D. pack.

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Just Kidding

Just Kidding

you're saying you prefer aldi baked beans to heinz even though heinz is more expensive and better branded

I don't like the HD pack, I don't like how it looks, I don't use it (or rather didn't use it).

Less detailed, dont care.
Less realistic, dont care.
"less pleasing to use" - opinion. I prefer the vanilla models, I find them infinitely more pleasing to use - particularly the rough and satisfying rattle of the MP5.

I installed this pack when blueshift came out; I remember I liked the zombies and not much else, I can't tell you why. Barney looked like a bit of a slob too I think

Gwil said:
you're saying you prefer aldi baked beans to heinz even though heinz is more expensive and better branded

I don't like the HD pack, I don't like how it looks, I don't use it (or rather didn't use it).

Less detailed, dont care.
Less realistic, dont care.
"less pleasing to use" - opinion. I prefer the vanilla models, I find them infinitely more pleasing to use - particularly the rough and satisfying rattle of the MP5.

That is simply a version of brand snobbery you have described there. The soldiers arms look so weird on the normal Half-Life models they looked all disjointed and such. You have listed one thing you prefer from Half-Life original out of loads of things that are better about Half-Life H.D. You really need to lose the "Whatever" attitude you are displaying here. Why would you like the Vanilla shotgun more than the High Definition shotgun? Why would you like the normal soldiers more than the High Definition soldiers?

haymaker said:
I installed this pack when blueshift came out; I remember I liked the zombies and not much else, I can't tell you why. Barney looked like a bit of a slob too I think

What do you mean by "Barney looked like a bit of a slob"? Was that with H.D. pack or without? Please explain your reasons for either. You should appreciate the huge attention to detail that went on with the H.D. pack. The body armour of the soldiers looked padded rather than being part of the model skin. You could see the lights flash on their radios for christ's sake!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Just Kidding

Just Kidding

To me, the vanilla models have a sentimental value. If you mess with anything from that good old experience, it just isn't the same, that nostalgic value has gone totally.

As for the models themselves, yeah sure there more detailed, I appreciate the detail that has gone into them and all and the effort and such. But just because there is more polygons on screen, doesn't make them great regardless. I don't like the design of some of the weapons and some of the characters there either just too "generic" or just not quite right. That said, I'm not particularly a fan of some of the vanilla Half-life models but I think that generally they seem to be more thought out.

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Aaron's Stuff

Flynn said:

Gwil said:
you're saying you prefer aldi baked beans to heinz even though heinz is more expensive and better branded

I don't like the HD pack, I don't like how it looks, I don't use it (or rather didn't use it).

Less detailed, dont care.
Less realistic, dont care.
"less pleasing to use" - opinion. I prefer the vanilla models, I find them infinitely more pleasing to use - particularly the rough and satisfying rattle of the MP5.

That is simply a version of brand snobbery you have described there. The soldiers arms look so weird on the normal Half-Life models they looked all disjointed and such. You have listed one thing you prefer from Half-Life original out of loads of things that are better about Half-Life H.D. You really need to lose the "Whatever" attitude you are displaying here. Why would you like the Vanilla shotgun more than the High Definition shotgun? Why would you like the normal soldiers more than the High Definition soldiers?

haymaker said:
I installed this pack when blueshift came out; I remember I liked the zombies and not much else, I can't tell you why. Barney looked like a bit of a slob too I think

What do you mean by "Barney looked like a bit of a slob"? Was that with H.D. pack or without? Please explain your reasons for either. You should appreciate the huge attention to detail that went on with the H.D. pack. The body armour of the soldiers looked padded rather than being part of the model skin. You could see the lights flash on their radios for christ's sake!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's not! I am saying this:

I prefer the vanilla models. I do not like the HD pack.
You prefer the HD pack. You do not like (as much) the vanilla models.

There is no point trying to say "WHY WOULD YOU PREFER THE VANILLA SHOTGUN MODEL OMG?!?!?!" because that's exactly the same question as "WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU LIKE THE HD PACK, IT IS ASS!?"

I don't like the HD pack, more detailed, more work put into it whatever. I. Do. Not. Like. It.

Eg: I support West Bromwich Albion. By your logic, because Manchester United have invested more money and time into training their players and developing a squad, and therefore their football looks better, I should logically support them. Nonsense.

West Bromwich Albion are the also rans of the Premier League this season i'd wager, and we don't have the flashest forwards or best looking/capacity stadium but I am still going to support them. I don't need to explain my reasons, I just like them over the flashier outfit.

And, as we're into "EXPLAIN YOUR PERSONAL TASTE!" territory, i'd like to point out not only do I like the vanilla models for the nostalgia and familiarity, aesthetics and feel, I also plain old DO NOT LIKE the HD pack.

aaron_da_killa said:
To me, the vanilla models have a sentimental value. If you mess with anything from that good old experience, it just isn't the same, that nostalgic value has gone totally.

As for the models themselves, yeah sure there more detailed, I appreciate the detail that has gone into them and all and the effort and such. But just because there is more polygons on screen, doesn't make them great regardless. I don't like the design of some of the weapons and some of the characters there either just too "generic" or just not quite right. That said, I'm not particularly a fan of some of the vanilla Half-life models but I think that generally they seem to be more thought out.

Well aaron. Aren't you the diplomat Me and Gwil are battling over the very essence of the High Definition pack while you are trying to keep it calm all in your corner. I appreciate that.

Half-Life had a huge sentimental value for me. Needless to say, I started it in 2002 with Blue-Shift at which time the H.D. pack was already released. Then in the summer of that same year I got the generation pack (this might be country specific so you might not know what it is).

I notice you again aren't going into specifics like other people. Maybe you lot think it is something that needs to be felt rather than described. Or maybe you are just trying not to drag me off topic even further

It is hard to get back at you without specifics. I would need to know what those weapons and characters were that you didn't like/felt too generic. Either way, I would rather have the original non H.D. pack H-L:1 weapons over the boring set of weapons they have in Half-Life 2 (I managed to sneak that on topic bit in there somewhere).

I am surprised you say you think that the Half-Life non H.D. pack models are more thought out. I mean, a grenade launcher on an M.P.-5? Come again? Trying to think of some other examples...frail old men for security guards ala non H.D. pack Barney. The soldiers arms look disjointed as I mentioned previously. Model textures are all low resolution. I can understand what you say about the good old feel though. The difference is that my good old feel has the H.D. pack incorperated into it.

Gwil said:
It's not! I am saying this:

I prefer the vanilla models. I do not like the HD pack.
You prefer the HD pack. You do not like (as much) the vanilla models.

There is no point trying to say "WHY WOULD YOU PREFER THE VANILLA SHOTGUN MODEL OMG?!?!?!" because that's exactly the same question as "WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU LIKE THE HD PACK, IT IS ASS!?"

I don't like the HD pack, more detailed, more work put into it whatever. I. Do. Not. Like. It.

Eg: I support West Bromwich Albion. By your logic, because Manchester United have invested more money and time into training their players and developing a squad, and therefore their football looks better, I should logically support them. Nonsense.

West Bromwich Albion are the also rans of the Premier League this season i'd wager, and we don't have the flashest forwards or best looking/capacity stadium but I am still going to support them. I don't need to explain my reasons, I just like them over the flashier outfit.

And, as we're into "EXPLAIN YOUR PERSONAL TASTE!" territory, i'd like to point out not only do I like the vanilla models for the nostalgia and familiarity, aesthetics and feel, I also plain old DO NOT LIKE the HD pack.

Shame. Some people ay You should atleast appreciate the huge attention to detail that went on in there.

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Just Kidding

Just Kidding

Odd... I played HL before the expansion packs but ever since I got hold of the HD pack, I've never played HL without it anymore. The HD pack fleshes out the models much more and although moving from a MP5 to an assault rifle was perhaps not the best thing they could do, it made the grunts look all the more heavy. I liked the new sounds, too.

Ah well, to each his own.

another thread successfully derailed flex

just think about the HD pack like this: You've just drawn a picture that you love. It's not a masterpiece by any stretch of the imagination, but you love it just the same. Now somebody sees this drawing and decides to arbitrarily change aspects of it to fit their own personal vision, in the process it loses some of its charm. Yeah it might have more detail and better line work or whatever, but it just isn't the original and detracts from it.

Plus the original models fit better with the rest of the original textures and level design. High-res and higher poly stuff doesn't look right when the textures or the level design haven't been made more detailed and complex.

Captain P said:
Odd... I played HL before the expansion packs but ever since I got hold of the HD pack, I've never played HL without it anymore. The HD pack fleshes out the models much more and although moving from a MP5 to an assault rifle was perhaps not the best thing they could do, it made the grunts look all the more heavy. I liked the new sounds, too.

Ah well, to each his own.

Yes Captain P, that is what I thought when I came across all this animosity towards the High Definition pack. I guess it was so good looking that I didn't even give a second thought towards people disliking it.

Why do you say that moving from an M.P.-5 to an assault rifle was not the best idea though? I know I liked the sound of the M.P.-5 more. I also thought an assault rifle model should have been reserved for something more powerful.

I have been saying for the last few posts how the High Definition pack fleshes out the models. No one seems to mind the original models though. They are okay but after the H.D. pack I couldn't go back. The soldiers look awesome with the H.D. pack with their chunky weapons and typical "tough guy" faces. Without it they just look plain weird to my eyes. The same with the Barney security guards as well.

I agree about the sounds, they were spot on as well as virtually the whole pack itself.

Yak_Fighter said:
another thread successfully derailed flex

just think about the HD pack like this: You've just drawn a picture that you love. It's not a masterpiece by any stretch of the imagination, but you love it just the same. Now somebody sees this drawing and decides to arbitrarily change aspects of it to fit their own personal vision, in the process it loses some of its charm. Yeah it might have more detail and better line work or whatever, but it just isn't the original and detracts from it.

Plus the original models fit better with the rest of the original textures and level design. High-res and higher poly stuff doesn't look right when the textures or the level design haven't been made more detailed and complex.

Okay that is a good way to describe it. I thought the Half-Life level design was extremely complex. Mind you that is coming from someone who played Tomb Raider before. I might understand if you had worked on the original Half-Life, but such a heart felt reaction seems strange coming from fans.

I like the high poly stuff. It is interesting that you have said that actually about the less detailed textures. People nowadays have such high resolutions available to them that if they set a high resolution they wouldn't notice the low detailed textures.

Time to sneak something in which is on topic. The weapons on Half-Life 1 were fiddled with by Gordon while you weren't shooting them. This was with and without the H.D. pack. The cylinder of the Mangum actually revolved when fired! Gordon Freeman actually got an R.P.G. in his hand and put it into the front of the launcher. Where is that attention to detail on H.L.-2? The absence of such detail on H.L.-2 makes the weapons a whole lot more unsatifying and unconvincing to use.

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Just Kidding

Just Kidding