Editor colors

I'm fairly new to editing maps, and I'd just like some general ideas on how you pros use the VisGroups and color-coding features to their fullest. They seem like really useful features for keeping maps organized and clutter-free. I'm sure this is just personal prefrence and each mapper has their own setup, but some ideas would be helpful!

Thanks! -Xylo

hmm i am not sure this is exactly an editing question, in spite of the fact that it pertains to the editor but,

i tend to prefer the brighter colors, only because i can distinguish them better.. i have no rhyme nor reason otherwise... but i do recommend vis-grouping, no matter the colors involved.

Since my last map was one of the most cluttered ever, I had to use VISgroups just to remain sane. In my case, I created a large group for all world brushes, and several different groups for different classes of entities. This allowed me to see the sorts of entities that I was working on at a particular time - for example, door entities or logic entities or ambient effects entities.

I don't use VISgroup colours at all. This makes it easier to tell what's a world brush and what's a solid entity, because the entities are coloured purple by default (thus the only coloured things are entities in my display).

personaly, i use visgroups constantly...color coded and the works....for example, i build a section with walls floors and cielings....call it...um...hive 1....color it the chartruese green....all the rest of the hives are green as well.....this saves time when im actually looking at the clutter, trying to distinguish ata glance what is what....the same for the other types of areas i build....its just one example of use, there are planty, and with a bit of practice, youll find a use that fits youyr needs....they are actualy a very useful tool, especially if yer doing something as cluttered and messy and great as say, gollums last map... :heee: /runs

Doc Brass... :dodgy:

Didnt Sim ask this question back in Snarkpit v3? I think so. The colors as far as I know are randomly drawn. And they change everytime you open VHE.

Wild Card said:
Didnt Sim ask this question back in Snarkpit v3? I think so. The colors as far as I know are randomly drawn. And they change everytime you open VHE.

if that were the case, gollum wouldn't have said he "designated" a certain color, same holds true for docs statement.

fact is, you can chose a color, and as long as you load the .RMF each time, you retain this setting.

what he said.....

Doc B... :dodgy:

I've never used VisGroups, though I've also never made a map that's so complex I have an impossible time finding something in all three views.

I also just let the colors come as they are, and hope I can remember which block was which. Needless to say I'm not the most effective mapper ever.

I use visgroups all the time. Sometimes you might want to get something out of the way, but not want to bother making it again in case you need it.

On another, much stupider note, I wish Visgroups had the functionality of layers ala Photoshop - that would truly rock. You would be able to toggle them visible with one click, and brushes would automatically go into the currently-selected visgroup without the pain of going into the object properties. :smile:

uhhh what are visgroups :razz:

/runs from mob of snarkpitters with thwacking devices

please tell me yer joking rumple.....if not, RTFM!!!!

Doc B... :dodgy:

btw, i dig the hell outta yer avatar man....
where did you find that?

**edit** See Orph's solution below.

The bad thing about VISgroups is that you can only have about 7 before the little dialog box grows a scrollbar. Once this has happened, any object you hide can only be put in the 6 (or so) other groups directly displayed by the dialog. You can't expand the dialog box, and you can't move something to another VISgroup at the same time as scrolling to that VISgroup.

It sucks, but maybe no-one noticed because most people don't need more VISgroups. If I'd had the option, I would have used about 30 VISgroups in gmdm2 (no exaggeration).

imagine, the dialog box is now full and you wanna add a new object to one off screen,, grab it by left clicking, press the down arrow till the desired visgroup shows, and release the mouse button..

you have now a new object added to your desired visgroup.

Goddamit, why didn't I ask about this before? :biggrin:

Thanks Orph.

Gollum said:
Goddamit, why didn't I ask about this before? :biggrin:

Thanks Orph.

i have my moments of redemption i guess :smile:

you're welcome mike :smile:

heh I dunno, I've made some huge maps and I've never felt the need to use visgroups. I thought they were mostly to reduce the amount of the map that was rendered in the 3d view, and thus keep hammer running smoother. when I was on my old computer and working on a huge map, I would just reduce the draw distance to help this, though.

I can see this helping a little sometimes when you are going to select a particular brush in a 2d view, but often as not I just highlight a brush by clicking it in the 3d view, then move it in a 2d view once it's highlighted. Overall, though, visgroups just seem confusing and a lot more work than they would save .

In my last RMF, it wasn't possible to select objects uniquely in the 3D view, because I had so many entities occupying the same space That meant I had to hide some.

I really wish someone would explain to my why VisGroups are nessecery..I never use em, but I got an alright knowledge of what they are...

/me also hasnt made an acceptable map big enough, nor detailed enough to begin using VisGrouping :biggrin:

*posted by Jinx
Overall, though, visgroups just seem confusing and a lot more work than they would save .

no offense, then yer not really using them to their potential, nor have a full understanding of their "usability"

I really wish someone would explain to my why VisGroups are nessecery..I never use em, but I got an alright knowledge of what they are...

/me also hasnt made an acceptable map big enough, nor detailed enough to begin using VisGrouping :biggrin:

methinks you pretty much answered yer own question there bud....

mikes map is a prime example of why visgroups are so important....he pushed the limits of the editor, and the result was a great map, barely contained in the limits of the engine...but during the build, i daresay he cussed more than once whilst trying to see thru the conglomeration of lines in his drawings..

at the point where you see clutter, you group these brushes and entities together in whatever form or fashion you see fit, and give them a designated color...then hide them...voila, clutter removed, and you still have them at yer beck and call by the touch of a button....allowing you to "see" thru the mess youve created....and if they are needed for a reference point, and "unhidden", then you have given them a particular color and can see exactly what group yer looking at without straining, or checking and rechecking....pretty marvelous tool, imho....one of valves better ones.... :wink:

Doc Brass... :dodgy:

ps....the slashes are going to be left in my post, so Lep can see exactly how many times i get booted while typing a post...sorry ....

To be honest I've forgotten all about Visgroups - their existance and how they work. I just use normal grouping and then hide the groups I need to. The ugly mess of colours in the grids annoyed me to no end so I just made all of the brushed white (in the tools > options menu).

pfft. Visgroups. I didn't need no visgroups to change my section of the Snarkpitcrew map. All those white lines are good for you, although my eyes did end up hurting after about an hour...

Gollum said:
In my last RMF, it wasn't possible to select objects uniquely in the 3D view, because I had so many entities occupying the same space That meant I had to hide some.

This is why I don't use VISgroups usually, it doesn't help me. But my case is for 2D views, so much stuff occupies one area that I can only use 3D view and I have to hide stuff constantly. (Tree models etc. have really large bounding boxes.) I've never really had a need to use VISgroups, I just select the appropriate solids in 3D since my choice of stuff to select changes so often.

well, i suppose its all a matter of personal taste...i myself hate looking at what is percieved to be a clusterf**k of lines, and weeding them out is a royal pain in the arse....and as such, visgrouping does wonders for me....

Doc B... :dodgy:

Dr Brasso said:
please tell me yer joking rumple.....if not, RTFM!!!!
Yer I am joking [color=lightblue]not[/color]
Doc B... :dodgy:

btw, i dig the hell outta yer avatar man....
where did you find that?
Thanx, I cant remember where i got that, its been occupying space on my HDD for ages.

http://www.snarkpit.com/pits/campaignjunkie/visgroups.jpg

Visgroups are important. Now shh. :smile:

Bah, that's kiddy-stuff :wink:

http://www.snarkpit.com/pits/orpheus/reviews/gmdm2/1.jpg

http://www.snarkpit.com/pits/orpheus/reviews/gmdm2/2.jpg

There are no VISgroup colours in those pictures - all the colours are entities.

if nothing else, my review is used to illustrate a vis-group debate.. :rolleyes:

hours of hard work, reduced to this

no offense mikee, but that is EXACTLY what i meant by a see-through clusterf**k.....man....i KNOW you cussed more than once on this project, entities not withstanding...

Doc B... :dodgy:

To be honest, I tend not to bother with Visgroups. Most of the time I can understand the 2D views pretty well, since I've built it (though its another story when looking at somebody elses maps!) without using them. If I find something has grown too complex and the view is slowing me down, then I just hide things on the fly with "hide selected objects".

Gollum, as for the 3D view, just hold down the left mouse button to cycle through objects under the cursor, its a feature I thought would be somewhat pointless until I actually came to use it, now its a godsend :smile:

ReNo said:
Gollum, as for the 3D view, just hold down the left mouse button to cycle through objects under the cursor, its a feature I thought would be somewhat pointless until I actually came to use it, now its a godsend :smile:

I know about that feature. It doesn't work very well if you can't see what you're selecting, or if you have to wait 15 seconds to cycle through them all. If you like, I'll send you the RMF so you can see what I mean.

But trust me, I'm right about this :razz:

Hehe I see your point, I guess normally I just have 3 or 4 objects to cycle through max, but with your entity heavy maps I can imagine that amount is significantly higher :smile:

about the only real issue i had ever encountered using vis-groups was forgetting where something was, and mapping in the region again, that can be a bit annoying,but really its the only issue i ever encountered.

its a god-send to anyone with a small pc and video card.

Well, its good to see that this sparked such a debate!

Its interesting to see that most others don't even bother with vis-groups, even in my short time of mapping experience they seemed pretty handy. Oh well, to each his own...

thanks for all the input, fellas!

(PS does anyone know what this smiley is? :kitty: i haven't the slightest inkling what that could be)

It's supposed to be a "man" stroking a cat.