vis

Hey all it's me Half-dude,

Yes I'm still working on my mod Xenophobia and I wanted to know if it was essental to use vis? I can't see any differance whether it's on or off.

So the question is, Do I really need to use vis on a SP episode?

Yes, why? I dont exactly know. Its one of them:

"Dont ask just do it" type of things.

you really need to use vis on maps that you release.

if you don't, then when you play the map, every face in the entire map with be drawn. even the things that you cant see, far away in other areas of the map, with still be loaded in your video card. but when you use vis, it figures out what you can see from different places, so it only draws them what you can see.(and round some corners)

this all makes it much easier for your video card, and makes playing the map so much smoother.

not using vis is sometimes ok for a quick compile, to check for leaks, and testing entities.

oh yea, with the leafs, lol.

Yes then, since thats what it does you'll need to run it (I know leaf thread takes time) but if you want your map to be playable and keep the r's under 10000, you have to run VIS.

Really vis doesnt take THAT (compared to rad) long to do (if thats the reason you dont want to), so compile it anyways, it makes your map faster to run, and it lowers your chances of the map crashing HL.

But in short to answer your question, you don't NEED to run vis.

But on another side note, have you played "kill box"? Because on a map like that you dont need to run vis, because its just one big frikin' box (nothing wrong with that though). Read some tuts to find out what vis is exactly: http://countermap.counter-strike.net/Tutorials/tutorial.php?id=2 this one is really great to tell you how vis is calculated.

omegaslayer4777 said:
But in short to answer your question, you don't NEED to run vis.

You do need to run VIS. The engine won't know what to see and what not to see without it. You'll probably even screw up the AI pathing without it.

another important thing: RAD won't run unless VIS has run. RAD is the lighting program, without it your map will look fullbright- ie look like s**t.

and even on maps that seem fairly open, VIS can do a lot to help rspeeds and keep the map from being laggy.

sure, you don't have to run VIS or RAD.... but we don't have to play your asstacular map, either.

half-dude said:
Hey all it's me Half-dude,

I can't see any differance whether it's on or off.

the thought of any map being the same with or without vis is.... /me feels woozy now.

if you are being truthful with us about this sameness, you are not saying a whole lot of good stuff about your maps.

I could go into the inner workings of why VIS is absolutely necessary, but I won't. Just use it, wait for it to finish and move on. Take it on faith that it'll make your map better.

omegaslayer4777 said:
Really vis doesnt take THAT (compared to rad) long to do

Just as a point of interest, my de_ths map took an hour and a half to VIS, and a bit under an hour to RAD. But usually, vis does take less time.

maybe he can't tell a difference because he has a LEAK and vis/rad aren't running anyway

That wouldnt surprise me in the least.

Jinx said:
maybe he can't tell a difference because he has a LEAK and vis/rad aren't running anyway

i agree jinxy, this is prolly the real cause... thanx for reminding us :smile:

Jinx said:
sure, you don't have to run VIS or RAD.... but we don't have to play your asstacular map, either.

There this is the point I was trying to make, same for Orph: how can you notice the difference? Unless its just a big box room like "Killbox".

This topic doesn't even deserve discussion. There's only one answer:

Yes! Of course you must run VIS!

Failing to run VIS for a final compile indicates contemptible laziness in a mapper.

omega, even on a one-room killbox you should run vis. it still optimises the map in a variety of ways, and without it you cannot run RAD. a half-life map without VISing is kinda 'half-cooked' and will run tend to run s**tty and laggy, especially on older computers.

also, it's "you're next" not "your next" (sig text)

Jinx said:
also, it's "you're next" not "your next" (sig text)

Whoops thanks. Me Thinks I need to go back to school, my english isn't good.

And just as a side note: I think anyone who doesnt run vis needs to be slapped, I was merely stating that you dont need to run it to play the map.

Look at my pic of xenophobia, that has rad but not vis

Looks good so far. :biggrin:

What compile tools are you using? Once you get to a bigger level, then you'll start noticing a difference.

That's another problem, I can't estimate how big you can make a level before it freaks. What are some non-basic clues?

Not sure what you mean by "freaks" but how big you make them is really up to you. Everyone's computer is different and compile times will be different as well. My advice (for sp mapping) is to keep making it bigger until your compile times become too long.

And Jinx it is possible to run rad without running vis, albeit with direct lighting only. However playing a map with no vis performed is kinda like eating a hamburger with no toppings. Sure it's still a hamburger, but it's not quite all it could be.

Lol I just realized that if you can run rad without vis then youll probably using that compile tools for Quake 2.

Are you familar with r_speeds? (# of polygons seen at that moment) well I dont know exactly how many polys openGL maxes out at (2000?), but software maxes at 800, after that it "cuts" out brushes. But as you know csg cuts all brushes into more, so it will vary depending upon how you construct your level.

Its probably just a good idea to run vis (or have an insane amount of level transitions), it doesn't take nearly as long as rad (in most cases)