Half-Life Rally

All I can say is, Wow. Haha - no. Not the Wow your thinking of. More of a "Wow, this piece of s**t has been in the making for five years?". If you havent played it yet, then I'll start with the controls. Controls basically dont exist in this MOD. You swirve all out of control, with no hopes of turning your ass around in order to get through the next checkpoint. And not having an actual working reverse doesnt help this MOD...

Next we have: The maps. Sure, some maps look good. Some maps look like some time, and thought went into them (like Andrews map), but other maps seem like the mappers just spontaneously threw in tree sprites and building textures. Some maps have buggy vertex manipulation, resulting in your car getting stuck on invalid vertexs and steep points in hills.

Next up: Lagg issues. Play with more then 3 people, and you have a lagg-fest my friends. You wont get full-blown lagg all the time, but you will get spikes so big; you'll crap your pants. Another thing is that cars spawn ontop of each other sometimes. This can lead to very, very annoying bugs and trying to find who you are in a storm of mass confusion.

The camera. Wow. This thing isnt a camera, its more like a stick of dynamite full of rat poison and anthrax. The camera is very buggy, sometimes switching itself to different views when spawning into the next race. The camera views arnt as good as they were in the pictures.

Last we have...The overall MOD. I wasnt feeling the entire grasp of it. If you missed a checkpoint; you had to wait out Counter-Strike style until everyone either won; or lost. And this is very annoying, due to the fact that so many bugs prevent you from winning.

Some may like this MOD...I really dont care; I thought it was s**t.

Mod; abbreviation of modification. It should NEVER be capitalised as it is not an acronym.

Is this its first release? If so it seems like you are being a little unduly harsh toward it, especially when it's team have developed a driving game from a getting on for 10 year old engine base..

I understand Gwil. I know this is a beta, but I am saying its s**t. But, but..I am not saying there is no room for improvement. There is plenty of time to improve and fix this mod (happy now? :biggrin: ) up to make it a worth-while play.

And I never doubted this mod's capabilites. It is amazing what they have done to the Half-Life engine :smile: , no doubt.

TBH more than anything else which will weigh this mod down is the timing of the release. They have missed the boat, and it left port several years ago to set sail on the established seas of servers for CS, TFC, DoD.. etc.

And not having an actual working reverse doesnt help this MOD..

Yes there is. You have to shift gear, it's below neutral. But I agree, I was dissapointed with it. It seemed they spent all that time doing the physics of the cars, and they still handle like comatose rocks. Plus, this is a beta. Dissapointing to say the least.

The cars handle great, better than a lot of s**tty racing games out these days (Project Gotham Racing comes to mind) Have you people ever driven real cars? :razz:

Im guessing no if Vash didn't think of reverse gear like that.. :wink:

oh wait.. dont people drive a lot of automatics in the USA?

I haven't played it yet. But, if they handle like real cars that would be pretty awesome. The only problem is with having that sort of effect in a game you don't feel the act of inertia and from that you don't have intuition. Not to mention proper vision.

So, I can see how it would be difficult, especially with a keyboard.
But, it's better then incredibly unrealistic driving games in which going 20 around a 45 corner makes you spin out ... the odd thing is they're always top performance race cars ... one other thing those cars are suppose to have is handling.

[EDIT]

dont people drive a lot of automatics in the USA?

No (Manuals are cheaper and more fun) and I doubt Vash drives on a daily basis ... hint, hint.
[/EDIT]

More of a "Wow, this piece of s**t has been in the making for five years?".

3. It'd be nice if people would get their numbers correct.

Also, 3 years of mod development != 3 years of game development. People easily forget that in mod development, people screw you over and disappear for months on end or take all their stuff with them. On top of that, the remaining productive people do their work in their spare time. Any mod such as this can at best be compared to a full scale game developed on a timescale of about 1 year. For the record.

You don't like it, that's fine, but don't give me this "It took that long to make this?" bulls**t :razz:

Plus, this is a beta.

Odd, that's the first time I've heard anyone use this as a complaint against something wrong in a mod - usually it's "oh, this is just a beta, so it will get better." That's how betas work. :smile:

[size=13][color=white]Plus, this is a beta.

Odd, that's the first time I've heard anyone use this as a complaint against something wrong in a mod - usually it's "oh, this is just a beta, so it will get better." That's how betas work. :smile: [/color][/size]

It was more of a "damn, 3 years, and it's still beta."

[EDIT]: I have a feeling I might be kicking myself during the development of my own mod, for saying something like this. :smile:

The cars handle great, better than a lot of s**tty racing games out these days (Project Gotham Racing comes to mind) Have you people ever driven real cars? :razz:

LOL! Project Gotham Racing is a s**tty racing game!? I'm going to make the assumption you aren't a big fan of driving games. PGR, and its sequel, are almost certainly 2 of the best racing games around, and while my short amount of time spent in HLR (a solitary race) wasn't much of an indepth study, the way it plays isn't a patch on it. I'm not going to knock HLR - I think its a fabulous achievement, but it isn't up to the standards of many professional stand-alone racing games, and nobody should ever have expected it to be. I always looked upon projects such as this as an effort to have a little fun, gain experience, and learn about driving game development, as opposed to a serious effort to make a decent driving game...but then maybe I've got the wrong end of the stick.

What if I told you that Pole Position was the pinnacle of racing games? :razz:

No, I am a fan of racing games, but too many of them these days do not feel real to me. Project Gotham Racing came to mind because it's the most recent one I've played for any extended period of time. Personally I was underwelmed by the handling of the cars as it seemed like the wheels had no grip on the ground and that the cars weighed a few tons and had way too much momentum. I'll go replay it just to be sure.

I would say that the most realistic handling racing game I've ever played is Top Gear Rally for the N64. It had a good sense of speed, the cars would actually respond, holding down the accelerator the whole time would doom you, sliding was possible but not necessary... basically it felt real.

I guess PGR can, in some cars, feel a bit too slidey, but for the most part once you have got the hang of them you have get a feel for how hard you can push them before losing grip. For example, driving the Skyline will result in skiding around almost all corners, but take the Enzo Ferrari out for a spin and you can keeps its tires gripped around most corners and keep a good amount of speed.

The fact I don't drive means I can't truely comment on realism, but I find it a convincing attempt, and to be fair its not MEANT to be a simulator akin to Gran Turismo or anything, its meant to be about stylish driving :smile: Oh and PGR2 being out means HLR has lost what was at one time a point that interested me - online racing. PGR2's multiplayer is a godsend!

Yak_Fighter said:
I would say that the most realistic handling racing game I've ever played is Top Gear Rally for the N64. It had a good sense of speed, the cars would actually respond, holding down the accelerator the whole time would doom you, sliding was possible but not necessary... basically it felt real.

Rock and roll Yak my bad ass mofo brother! Me, my brother and a mate used to play this game religiously (along with GoldenEye etc). Kinda thought nobody else liked it :razz:

i havent had the chance to play it yet, but i think its truly mindblowing waht theyve done with the half life engine. The dynamic of the game is extremly different from shooter mods like NS, DOD or CS so its understandable that it took them alot longer to create. While it may seem s**t right now, its got to be remembered. it IS a beta. I remember CS and DOD in their betas, they were quite bad, but they got feedback and as they released newer versions it became better. So why not send your feedback to the HLRally team to help them! :smile:

-BB

Gwil said:

Yak_Fighter said:
I would say that the most realistic handling racing game I've ever played is Top Gear Rally for the N64. It had a good sense of speed, the cars would actually respond, holding down the accelerator the whole time would doom you, sliding was possible but not necessary... basically it felt real.

Rock and roll Yak my bad ass mofo brother! Me, my brother and a mate used to play this game religiously (along with GoldenEye etc). Kinda thought nobody else liked it :razz:

Oh man, me too! :biggrin: And Top Gear Overdrive, that was cool too :razz: And who can forget PD

(Sorry for offtopic and double post :razz: )

-BB

Screw you and your Top Gear Rally, Top Gear for SNES is what I'm talkin' 'bout! :razz:

Top Gear rally and Goldeneye, ohh ya nothin' beats those classics. I wish i had some moeny toherwise id go rent TGR, now i got the urge...

Thanks alot!

Well I just played it and I think you are being a bit harsh Vash. Just a bit. The controls I thought were actually fairly decent. At least for a mouse and a keyboard. However I think their choices for the default keys were rather odd... (What is the logic in putting gas on the right mouse key??) I only played 3 maps but the ones I played were aesthetically(sp?) pleasing as well as good for gameplay. Didn't really notice any lag although I joined servers with only 3 or so people on it. I definately agree about the camera bug tho. It's VERY annoying cycling through all the views each time a race starts and I hope they fix this asap. Also something you didn't mention was the collision detection for the cars. Simply put: it's horrible. It's no secret this mod has its share of bugs but hey thats what betas are for. If they iron out the bugs this could be rather enjoyable.

Well, there is no collision detection between cars. I think they did that on purpose, as no one wants to have people crashing seconds into the race and taking you with them. Plus a ton of people spin out and dodging all that with 10 cars and lag would be a bit tough.

Dammit, and ive been wasting my time downloading it, but I swtill want to try it :biggrin:

I appreciate all the hard work and such going into Half-Life Rally, but ultimately it doesn't seem like something I'd want to play for very long (compared to NS or others) Controls are okay once you get used to them after a while. Anyways, a really nice novelty/concept though; easily the top tier of Half-Life modifications in my book.

It sucks! i agree with vash 100%, the controls are awful, u swerve with the slightest tap it terrible!

I found it to be challenging trying to keep the car under control, you get used to it after a while. The mods good appart from the random bugs and crashes.

Yak_Fighter said:
Well, there is no collision detection between cars. I think they did that on purpose, as no one wants to have people crashing seconds into the race and taking you with them. Plus a ton of people spin out and dodging all that with 10 cars and lag would be a bit tough.

That's a good point, I didn't think of that(kinda like why we need an option for friendly fire..). But I think it takes away from the immersion quite a bit when you see a car float through you. How do they handle this in Project Gotham or other online racing games? This is the only one I've played.

In PGR2 the host of the server has the option to enable or disable collisions. However, if collisions are on, people who remain idle for a few seconds become passable, meaning you can't set up roadblocks and things, and people who idle at the start turn to ghosts so you don't get blocked. Works really well actually, plenty of opportunity for tapping people into the inside of turns, or using them as buffers on your outside edge as you corner, but gets rid of annoying bastards racing the wrong way around the course and things (that puts you into ghost as well).

A whole generation of kids (and..well ReNo) has been poluted by unrealistic driving sims such as PGR, it's a disaster waiting to happen when these people finally get their drivers license.

Let's hope that a large and growing fanbase for HL Rally can correct this error made by industry giants.

LOL :biggrin: Seriously though, I can't ever see a keyboard giving an at all realistic simulation of driving - the fact that its a digital input essentially destroys the recreation of an analogue action such as steering or accelerating in a real car. Whether the physics of PGR are accurate or not doesn't detract from the fact that its analogue controls give a much more realistic feel to driving than can be found in a PC racing game such as HLR...unless you have an analogue input device and HLR supports if of course :smile:

Bruce said:
A whole generation of kids (and..well ReNo) has been poluted by unrealistic driving sims such as PGR, it's a disaster waiting to happen when these people finally get their drivers license.

Let's hope that a large and growing fanbase for HL Rally can correct this error made by industry giants.

Hey! I grew up playing Super Mario Kart & Rock & Roll Racing and i've not had an accident yet....

ReNo said:
LOL :biggrin: Seriously though, I can't ever see a keyboard giving an at all realistic simulation of driving - the fact that its a digital input essentially destroys the recreation of an analogue action such as steering or accelerating in a real car. Whether the physics of PGR are accurate or not doesn't detract from the fact that its analogue controls give a much more realistic feel to driving than can be found in a PC racing game such as HLR...unless you have an analogue input device and HLR supports if of course :smile:

I wouldn't think analog or digital would make a difference at all in determining the realism of a racing game. If the physics (or a reasonable representation of) aren't there, it doesn't matter what input device you use. I know from experience that if I'm going 90 mph in my car and turn my steering wheel the car will turn, it won't slide and refuse to turn. If I jerk the wheel hard enough I will probably roll it and kill myself. While that level of realism isn't present in many games, HLR is closer than PGR. It's especially hilarious to see 3/4ths of the field oversteer within seconds of starting and then complain about the handling as it's obvious they are used to games where the cars won't turn unless they crank the wheel hard in the direction they want to go and hold it there.

Well yes, you have a point that input devices have no bearing on the realism of the handling, but I was more meaning the actual sensation of playing the game rather than physics accuracy. If you have an analogue stick, you can vary the strength at which you steer, an essential feature in driving that tapping on a digital pad doesn't do justice to. If you have an analogue trigger, you can accelerate and brake gradually, rather than going full throttle or hard brakes. These features, found in games such as PGR, make for a better representation of driving than a digital only game could ever provide, no matter how realistic the handling.

Besides, who cares about realism - if you want that just jump in your car. Its all about providing a challenging, stimulating, and most of all fun gameplay experience :smile:

NOTE: I've only ever driven 2 cars, both of which are low powered, and as such I'm in no position to talk about realism, and I don't think many people here are. Most of the cars in games such as PGR are high powered supercars such as Dodge Vipers, Ferraris, Porche's, etc... that the people who modelled the physics for the game are far more likely to know about than ourselves.

All I can say is, Wow. Haha - no. Not the Wow your thinking of. More of a "Wow, this piece of s**t has been in the making for five years?". If you havent played it yet, then I'll start with the controls. Controls basically dont exist in this MOD. You swirve all out of control, with no hopes of turning your ass around in order to get through the next checkpoint. And not having an actual working reverse doesnt help this MOD...

Next we have: The maps. Sure, some maps look good. Some maps look like some time, and thought went into them (like Andrews map), but other maps seem like the mappers just spontaneously threw in tree sprites and building textures. Some maps have buggy vertex manipulation, resulting in your car getting stuck on invalid vertexs and steep points in hills.

Next up: Lagg issues. Play with more then 3 people, and you have a lagg-fest my friends. You wont get full-blown lagg all the time, but you will get spikes so big; you'll crap your pants. Another thing is that cars spawn ontop of each other sometimes. This can lead to very, very annoying bugs and trying to find who you are in a storm of mass confusion.

The camera. Wow. This thing isnt a camera, its more like a stick of dynamite full of rat poison and anthrax. The camera is very buggy, sometimes switching itself to different views when spawning into the next race. The camera views arnt as good as they were in the pictures.

Last we have...The overall MOD. I wasnt feeling the entire grasp of it. If you missed a checkpoint; you had to wait out Counter-Strike style until everyone either won; or lost. And this is very annoying, due to the fact that so many bugs prevent you from winning.

Some may like this MOD...I really dont care; I thought it was s**t.

~~ This is somewhat flame ~~ Read if u will ~~

First of all valve is very good mod makers... just becase they make some beta that looks like crap to you doesnt mean its crap to everone else i know its your opinion but i would love to see you make something better... and then let us see it... and let us call it s**t and see how u feel... i dont care how long it would take you to make it... even mabe 5 years... but if we called it s**t how would it make you feel? i know this games not about feeling but to call somone eltses work s**t after they have been working on it for 5 years.... i dont think so... they have made alot of games and mods i dont think a single one is s**t due to how great thier work is and how long they take to work on it half-life2 is going to be great but you would probably say ohh yah thats s**t also... well then again i want to see you make something better... then let us all call it s**t and see exactly how u feel. especially working on it for 5 years... thats pathetic man

• My 2 centz

-Death - ZzZzZzZ

Death To lag? said:
First of all half-life is very good mod makers

?

can we have a flame bucket forums and have battlez please lol that would be so funny it would never be over btween me and vash.

EnD 0 story ..

Flame away to meh

learn to smell.

Please tell me that was a joke post!

If it wasn't - Valve don't make all the mods out there you know, only a select few were courtesy of them (TFC, DMC, Ricochet). Others, like HLR, are just made by random folks who feel like it. You do realise that half of the point of websites such as this, is to teach people how to make mods?

ReNo said:
Besides, who cares about realism - if you want that just jump in your car. Its all about providing a challenging, stimulating, and most of all fun gameplay experience :smile:

NOTE: I've only ever driven 2 cars, both of which are low powered, and as such I'm in no position to talk about realism, and I don't think many people here are. Most of the cars in games such as PGR are high powered supercars such as Dodge Vipers, Ferraris, Porche's, etc... that the people who modelled the physics for the game are far more likely to know about than ourselves.

Some of us wish we could be race car drivers, and jumping in my car and racing on the highway may draw attention from the cops. I don't need any more speeding tickets. :razz:

As for the physics of high-powered sport cars, I would certainly hope they would handle better than my V6 4D Impala at high speeds, otherwise what's the point of owning them? Besides, gravity, friction, mass, acceleration, and velocity can be experienced in the real world in cars that don't go 200 mph, and if the game can't accurately represent physics at 80 mph why would it suddenly do it at 150?

Let's just face it, PGR is more of an arcade racer than a realistic representation of driving. You like arcade racing and I don't, which is why we have this difference in opinion. Variety is the spice of life and all that. :biggrin:

The thing is, most racing games handle at least similarly to PGR2, including ones that label themselves as sims (such as F355 Challenge, or Gran Turismo). For this reason I'm not conviced they all have it entirely wrong, and while I don't doubt your a fine driver, I tend to take the word of many games developers and the car manufacturers that endorse them over yours as far as driving physics go.

learn to smell.

MMMMMMMm i wsih i colud buttt i dnot kno hwo tooe becuz i iz r stupadid hehar

Now everyone bow down and worship the finest arcade racer EVER - Rush 2049.

Never heard of it. But since we're in the spirit of listing our favorite racing games I thought I'd plug Gran Turismo.

Holy crap I just played HLRally - FUN AS HELL! If you don't lag really bad, it's actually a very entertaining mod. I'm about to switch to Steam I think so I can get off my roommate's computer.

How about a classic: RAD RACER !!!!! (8-bit NES)

Or another classic RC PRO AM !!!!! (1987 8ibit NES)

Aww Man! Rad Racer was f**king awesome. breaks out Nintendo

As for real driving physics in games go.
From a programming aspect, I think it is actually very difficult to have these cars act realistically. Simply because no one has created a completly realistic physics engine. Yes, the Havok2 engine might be great with gravity and interactions and effects. But have you ever tried to see pressure in games? I haven't otherwise you'd see realtime calculations of water running up your windsheild in the game. Or, you'd be able to make certain items float and others not (properly). I mean, granted we're taking some steps in the right direction, but ... we're no where near a good physics engine for any game.
However, you also have to think about things that you wont be able to judge in something you can't touch.

How are you able to go around certain turns on the freeway at high speeds, but safely? Well, first off you're surrounded by the environment, you can feel if the car is turning to hard or if it's going to spin out. So when you play the game you say its unrealistic and the truth is you can't prove that it is or isnt without some physics calculations.
Another thing you have to remember is that, you don't have pedals and a wheel in front of you. And I'm saying this in general for driving games. You can't 'feel' the road. And frankly in arcade games that have a force feed back steering wheel .... that car must not have shocks or something as such because you can barley turn the wheel in inch high grass.

Some other things that are yet present, to my knowledge, in physics engines: Friction, wind resistance, inertia, so on and so forth.

Most of everything you see in a physics engine demonstrated is predefined. So, things like friction and inertia exist, but they aren't nessesarily calculated durring run time, or dynamically.

However, I'm sure developers are WELL aware of all this and doing their damndest to work them in and have them work realistically. But you can usually tell when things are a little off: Bullet patterns, seeing a bullet when using a sniper rifle (give me a break), there's more, but ... they're getting better.

But I think the main problem is, you have no true pressure sensativity of the controls. even if you own a digital wheel and such it doesn't have nearly the amount of persision as a real wheel.

Never heard of it. But since we're in the spirit of listing our favorite racing games I thought I'd plug Gran Turismo.

Gran Turismo the original was cool, but I was vastly disappointed with GT3. There is absolutely NO sense of speed in that game. I remember when I first got my Xbox and was amazed by PGR, but loads of people online and things seemed to be saying "It has no sense of speed". Well GT3 makes PGR look obsenely quick by comparison :sad: They also took out the racing modification upgrades, which made ever single car in the game get custom decals and things. It was the pinnacle of souping up your car, and it made it truely feel like a GT race when even Mazda Demios or Subaru Legacys had customised racing appearances. Listing all the cars in a single shop was another huge mistake - browsing the various manufacterers and checking out second hand stock was a nice feature, and now its gone.

Basically, GT got a load of playtime from me, and GT3 has barely been touched. Big waste of ?15 :sad:

Meh. If you want speed, go play Wipeout. Or Extreme-G.

Oh no, I'd probably play Burnout instead :smile:

But I mean realistic speed, the sense of "Wow, I really DO feel like I'm moving at 130mph", not "Oh there is a corner, but I'm only doing....OMG I'M DOING 130mph! BRAKES!!!".

F-Zero GX?

lol i got that game its cool especially the loop track and being last survivor that ownz :razz: