New Mod team Seeking HL1 designers!

Howdy all,

I will make this brief as you all look serious around here..

Over at RTk we are busy cooking up a new mod for the upcoming release of HL2. A brief description of the mod:

SR 2053

In the Year of 2010 we had an occurrence in our reality that we call The Awakening. Something from our past awoke legends that were long forgotten. Creatures from our mythical history walked the earth once more, giving birth to magic. Chaos reigned as governments crumbled and Corporations grew into power. Trolls, Orcs, Dwarfs & Elf?s became once again part of our society. Even some humans show strength in an ancient magical skill. Wars are fought in new ways now, for corporations rule this world. This war is waged underground in the very shadows of our cities. And now rumors are surfacing of an even more powerful ancient Beast. Fear runs through everyone?s veins, as we all fear the worst is yet to come.

Thats right!
So, due to the game's "never-release" date. There are no official mapping tools to work with, but we are not limited. no. Valve has stated many a time how easy and compatible the map files themselves will be! So, with that said, we are on the look-out for mappers up to this task. It will require patience and dedication to map for a game on a different paltform then its intended, but we intend to do just that! And we want you if you can fit the bill!

We are currently looking for level designers on the HL1 platform only, for obvious reasons. If you feel up to the task please email OSIAS@rtkdevelopment.com or hit up our forums and make yourself known.
Thx for your time.

.. oops. sorry, duplicate post..

wrong forum.

Yeah, wrong forum - this is for asking editing specific questions.. i'll move it on to General Banter.

So you'll be fighting unicorns who are mercenaries for McDonalds? Ridiculous.

Cassius said:
So you'll be fighting unicorns who are mercenaries for McDonalds? Ridiculous.

Haha, that's a cynical review quote if I ever heard one :razz:

i find it a bit odd, to see a member name representing an entire group of people..

snarkpit is a one on one minded atmosphere.. why can't the group at individuals sign up for membership?

Shameless promotion ? :razz:

generally the worst way to promote a mod is by mass registering a username across appropriate forums, it just turns people off straight away :smile: (well, in my experience it does anyhow)

ahh, makes sense i suppose..

Oh look, another gay ass modification for Half-Life2 set in the future. What next, Weapon Renders? Im so tired of all this s**t, what is it with all you god damn nerds, and the damn future? Basically, this mod is labeled

"A bunch of shroomed up hippes fight the dog"

Oh look, another gay ass modification for Half-Life2 set in the future. What next, Weapon Renders? Im so tired of all this s**t, what is it with all you god damn nerds, and the damn future? Basically, this mod is labeled

"A bunch of shroomed up hippes fight the dog"

Vash, when did you turn into Cassius? :razz:

Cassius is my idol.

/me humps

(Not really; I just say these things to make people feel better.)

Vash said:
Cassius is my idol.

/me humps

(Not really; I just say these things to make people feel better.)

/me gasps

vash, didn't realize that Chihuahua was in your gene pool

at least it isn't a cs clone...

I don't know why people are bothering to start up mods for an unreleased game. You won't be able to accomplish anything substantial while you're waiting. I can't even bring myself to make plans for HL2 maps.

Yak_Fighter said:
I can't even bring myself to make plans for HL2 maps.

i can, think large, very large..

just think of it, maps that make chaocity look small, and much better constructed to boot.

smaller than U2 though, but big none the less :biggrin:

[edit] i retextured reno's competition map from the last comp.. it compiled in about 5 minutes, and run smooth as silk.. compile times will be altered with the new engine as well..

Please just f**k off if you're going to be a troll about this... (at everyone else, not Orph )

If they wanna promote a mod, let them - its no skin off your nose. Vash - LAME.

There isn't really anything wrong with starting a mod before a game is released. There is a stage known as design in game development, and it normally begins way before an engine is developed - starting an HL2 mod is no different. I don't agree with the building of levels in HL1 for HL2, but if making them helps get the concept across to other team members better than words, then its a worthwhile exercise. Weapon models might end up too detailed, but if thats the case, it was still practice, and if you are making ficticious weapons, then its helping to nail your design.

Good luck with the project - I suggest you reconsider using your HL1 maps in HL2 but its your call.

I think it could be an advantage starting a mod before you can really work on it, because it means you are forced into thinking more about the ideas you are having. Instead of just slapping a bunch of pretty much random features into a game and hoping that it will be good, you get a chance to think about things properly, and plan, without being able to be distracted by the temptation to just get on and make something,

Indeed, as ReNo says - good luck with it all :smile: I just don't feel there is potential or a market for HL2 mod players yet - perhaps if you focus on high r_speeds concept in development and "breaking the mould", as it were.

If you lay down concept ideals for mapping, modelling and coding before everyone else - you are bound to be onto something semi-successful :smile:

gl with it all, youll need it.... knowing valve :biggrin:

ReNo said:
There is a stage known as design in game development, and it normally begins way before an engine is developed - starting an HL2 mod is no different. I don't agree with the building of levels in HL1 for HL2, but if making them helps get the concept across to other team members better than words, then its a worthwhile exercise.

These aren't games. They're mods. Development is obviously pretty different between them. Game developers spend that long writing design documents so they can pitch it to developers and measure the commercial viability. But mods... Mods are still a hobby (I hope they'll remain that way at least), you just work on making something fun. Hiring all these staff members or attempting to hire simply clouds any progress you might have. It turns into an administration nightmare, trying to keep up team morale and motivate people to keep working as well. Then again, I don't know much about game development or whatever, so don't quote me on any of this. :razz:

IMO, the best mods start with very few people. These people will obviously hire more staff as they go along, but that's usually after they have stable gameplay and prototype betas released.

Speaking from failed experience, I'm very tempted to agree CJ, but while there are of course fundamental differences between game and mod design, there are also similarities. One of these is that planning is a road to success. Just because making mods is a hobby doesn't mean it need not be taken seriously.

Design documents are not only written to pitch the game to developers/publishers, or measure commercial viability - they are the pages from which everyone needs to be reading in order to come up with a coherent vision of the project. If a level designer thinks you can jump 64 units high and the programmer only makes it 32, then there are going to be problems. Extensive pre-planning written in a clear fashion can resolve these issues before they ever occur.

ReNo said:
Extensive pre-planning written in a clear fashion can resolve these issues before they ever occur.

Extensive pre-planning also limits quite possibly the greatest advantage of modifications: flexibility. When one writes a design document, they typically focus their ideas and somewhat close off outside influence. Granted, there are exceptions, but I prefer more natural methods of development.

Prince of Persia: Sands of Time's design document was, I believe, less than a few pages. (Trying to remember from that Behind-the-Scenes feature at Gamespot) They never really used/needed a design document, but they produced some great stuff regardless. A common vision can be established without paragraphs upon paragraphs of text.

I agree with modifications able to be taken seriously - to an extent. I've seen quite a few mods that think they're part of the gaming industry for crying out loud. Pompous attitudes != good mod :razz:

I'm certain this poor fellow didn't want his job search post to turn into a debate about the merits of getting a head start in modding, but... :biggrin:

I agree that you will be able to use the downtime to write up design documents, determine what features you want in the game, and whatnot, but you don't know the slightest bit about the game or the engine and what they do so that to me is pointless. How can you know what features to add to the game when you don't know the features it already has? How can you know your mod will differ greatly from the actual game? They haven't even announced what the multiplayer aspects of HL2 are, for all we know it could be just DM or CS2 and TF2. There's just too many questions left unanswered for my taste.

According to their postmortem in Game Developer magazine, the Sand of Time developers used a lot of concept movies to demonstrate scenes and game mechanics, and built lots of prototypes - an option not readily available to mod developers. The article strangely doesn't mention their design doc, which I would have thought it would if it were so abnormaly short, but regardless, MOST developers keep an extensive (concise, but complete) design doc, as its normally the most viable option available. Its also a practice which most game design books I've come across strongly advise, and as I'm not any sort of authority on the issue, I'm inclined to take their word on it.

I'm a hippy liberalist git, but I believe that conceptual and visionary art within a previous similar engine, can aid greatly ideas to layouts, ambience and general tweakage points of a map.

That's why i'm taking so long to finish one ;P

statistically all mods are destined to fail, we all know this, why can we not be supportive anyways..

i already posted this at PFL, same topic, different member.. i almost quit mapping after thrasher, because i couldn't handle the ridicule, and lack of support in the HL community.. it marked me to the point to where i still do not look upon my work favorably.. the stigma is still there..

since then, and particularly here at snarkpit, i have dedicated all my free time to others.. i may not always like the map, or the author, but i try hard not to discourage any future they may have..

if i had a wish about map editing, it would be that everyone shared this belief with me..

/ end rant

You don't need to know what features to ADD, you just need to put down clearly what features your mod will NEED. If HL2 has them readily available, then you don't need to develop it yourself. Obviously if HL2's multiplayer has everything your mod intends to be bringing to the gaming scene, you've wated your time, but I feel that this team can be fairly confident HL2 won't be implementing fantastical creatures and magic :rolleyes:

ReNo said:
used a lot of concept movies to demonstrate scenes and game mechanics, and built lots of prototypes - an option not readily available to mod developers.

... Which is why you wait until HL2 is out, then you can make all sorts of prototypes and scenes! Plus, people still have no idea exactly how much the SDK and HL2 will provide in terms of resources. It's all just guesswork, and I think it's kind of dangerous to start building a concept on guesswork, much less building maps. :smile:

Orpheus: Lack of support? Ridicule? I think the community is rather supportive, though I suppose that depends on how much support exactly that you're looking for. Also, IMO, it's better to think lower of your work than be an arrogant idiot and think you're the best. Like the British in World War II - if they weren't sure of something, they assumed they lost, and it turned out they had more resources than they thought. :razz:

Or build your prototypes with HL1 - I'm sure the SoT team weren't using their fully featured engine to toy with early prototypes :razz:

Campaignjunkie said:
...Orpheus: Lack of support? Ridicule? I think the community is rather supportive, though I suppose that depends on how much support exactly that you're looking for. Also, IMO, it's better to think lower of your work than be an arrogant idiot and think you're the best.

CJ exactly how long have you been mapping now??

no offense, but the HL community as a whole, was not nor has it ever been on par with snarkpits atmosphere.. the n00b level of support was atrocious 5 years ago. sure their were pockets of gems, but rare indeed..

in fact, snarkpit had its own resident asswipe once upon a time.. not so much n00b, but the atmosphere he generated drove members away ( a comment i cannot verify, nor would i if i were able )

seriously though, snarkpit is a site, a cut above the rest, don't let its success cloud your recollection of how it used to be.

my release date was approximately july of 1999 for thrasher, thats a very long time ago.. most of you were genuinely snot nosed kids back then :biggrin:

Orpheus said:
statistically all mods are destined to fail, we all know this, why can we not be supportive anyways..

i already posted this at PFL, same topic, different member.. i almost quit mapping after thrasher, because i couldn't handle the ridicule, and lack of support in the HL community.. it marked me to the point to where i still do not look upon my work favorably.. the stigma is still there..

since then, and particularly here at snarkpit, i have dedicated all my free time to others.. i may not always like the map, or the author, but i try hard not to discourage any future they may have..

if i had a wish about map editing, it would be that everyone shared this belief with me..

/ end rant

Orph I congratulate on your helpful stance - which is obvious anyway you big mong :razz: it's an attitude which today society lacks (anywhere :wink: ) amongst young and old - which is truly a shame, and bad for our development as well.

I was shocked the other day when I let a lady get to the post box first the other day, and she said quote, unquote - "you are a gentleman - a dying breed in todays world it would seem".

Is this how bad, selfish and inconsiderate people have got, when a stranger will remark (in a surprised fashion) on selflessness? If it has I am saddened, indeed.

Orpheus said:

Campaignjunkie said:
...Orpheus: Lack of support? Ridicule? I think the community is rather supportive, though I suppose that depends on how much support exactly that you're looking for. Also, IMO, it's better to think lower of your work than be an arrogant idiot and think you're the best.

CJ exactly how long have you been mapping now??

no offense, but the HL community as a whole, was not nor has it ever been on par with snarkpits atmosphere.. the n00b level of support was atrocious 5 years ago. sure their were pockets of gems, but rare indeed..

in fact, snarkpit had its own resident asswipe once upon a time.. not so much n00b, but the atmosphere he generated drove members away ( a comment i cannot verify, nor would i if i were able )

seriously though, snarkpit is a site, a cut above the rest, don't let its success cloud your recollection of how it used to be.

my release date was approximately july of 1999 for thrasher, thats a very long time ago.. most of you were genuinely snot nosed kids back then :biggrin:

And hey, get your cameras out - here's me and Orph agreeing :smile: The HL community in the heyday of 2.1 was rude, offensive and generally horrendously condescending. Luckily I learnt my lesson and moved to less "elitist" forums before I was sucked in by their 'charms'.

It wasn't always like this, and if we can create an open atmosphere* to discuss and develop in it's only a good thing - the pros looking down on the "n00b WC-off the HL CD lot" days have gone, where people have moved to educate, entertain and excite rather than slap down and crush them..

(which, despite the flame wars of late and past, I can be safe to say we do have)

I was sat on a train home from a wee rollerblading trip a while ago and saw an elderly lady stood nearby, so offered her my seat. She wouldn't take it but I just stood up and said well I'm not having it either, so she took it greatfully and she said basically the exact same thing :biggrin:

wow

admins workin over time to patch up your dirty mouths!

lol

anywas, ya'll get the wrong impression. and i probably would too. based off the 3 pages of flaming i get in 4 hours. I presume there is nothing more i could say to convince you otherwise.

sorry to step into your little world.

(and btw the generic team name is purely functional based, so any of our staff can handle keeping up on threads. grow up.)

For the few that showed support, thank you, be sure to check us out when the game comes out! thanks a lot.

shLep

RTK-Team

To be fair, it was only one page of flaming - the rest was amicable arguments between mostly neutral parties :biggrin:

ReNo said:
To be fair, it was only one page of flaming - the rest was amicable arguments between mostly neutral parties :biggrin:

Dont worry... Its always like that. 1 or 2 persons flames the topic starter and the rest just flame each other.

rtk-team said:
wow

admins workin over time to patch up your dirty mouths!

lol

anywas, ya'll get the wrong impression. and i probably would too. based off the 3 pages of flaming i get in 4 hours. I presume there is nothing more i could say to convince you otherwise.

sorry to step into your little world.

(and btw the generic team name is purely functional based, so any of our staff can handle keeping up on threads. grow up.)

For the few that showed support, thank you, be sure to check us out when the game comes out! thanks a lot.

shLep

RTK-Team

1st off, the majority was non-admin in support or outright neutrality..

secondly, you are welcome into our world, but i do not detect true sorrow in your "sorry" statement..

thirdly, if this little triad of pages discourages you from remaining.. don't let the door hit'cha on the way out :/

Orpheus said:
thirdly, if this little triad of pages discourages you from remaining.. don't let the door hit'cha on the way out :/

spoken from a man with experience :biggrin: Dontcha love them 2 way swigning doors? They hit him as he leaves, and then comes back and slaps us who remain.

well you guys are active ill give you that! Point taken, i honestly figured after reading most of the first page of insults, the other 2 would follow suit.

Enough with the jabs (from me atleast)

I'll engage in this little debate here, as objective as i can from my own team.

Wether the engine is out or not, most mods require a decent amount of backend work. this is just a fact. unless you are a paintball mod.

We have very high aspirations. some of which wont be met. we expect that. A large portion will. With the right people. You can agree or disagree with our Mod premise or approach, and you'll make the decission instantly wether you care at that point, and that's what we're after anyways, but to flame it?

thats what the good ol' boys call l33t.

shLep

RTk-Team

Don't let the poorly thought out (if thought at all) actions of a small minority create a "your world" vs. "our world" rift. I'd hate to see you ignore the worthwhile points of this site due to such an event.

I mean, jesus, it's like "Hmm... people, we need people, hey, a potential new person, f**k OFF AND DIE!" (awkward pause) "Oops."

Edit: Ah, good, you're not :smile:

Edit2: The sarcastic second paragraph is in reference to this community, not your help wanted request :smile:

I think there were a grand total of two posts that could be interpreted as insults, so what are you getting your panties in a bunch about?

Anyways, good luck on your mod. I know how much it sucks to put alot of effort in and watch as the rest of the team collapses around you.

rtk-team said:
Wether the engine is out or not, most mods require a decent amount of backend work. this is just a fact. unless you are a paintball mod.

Agreed. I never actually did a mod, but I worked on 2 failed attempts :biggrin:

Good luck with it though. And remember, the thing you want the most, the thing that will make the game the best... that feature... will never get done lol. I heard that somewhere once.

Hell, if people interpret my post as an admin of this site as rude or offensive, dont take it seriously - im just a harsh ass motherf**ker (ROCK AND ROLL!) generally.

It helps me maintain a level of apathy when I ban people who spam :smile:

i think, if you combine KFS's and Yaks reply, you pretty much sum up my sentiments..

my advice, read the whole thread before you reply next time.. we tend to wander in our thoughts.. this thread will eventually end up talking about bodily fluid releases..

Gwil said:
Luckily I learnt my lesson and moved to less "elitist" forums before I was sucked in by their 'charms'.

The lesson is obvious. Stay at Snarkpit - don't stray. :razz:

Mmm, was it the entire/majority Half-Life community being rude and condescending? I kind of find that hard to believe. Surely there were plenty of communities (other than Snarkpit!) that were decent? Sorry, I'm part of the generation of mappers that started as CS players who wanted to make some sort of lame clan map. Never touched WC 2.2 (or 2.1, whatever!) in my life - never even knew it was on the CD. :smile:

(On a sidenote... Was HL teamplay ever popular?)

Hell yeah, the HLCCL (HL Clan Collision League - a european HLDM clan league) used to have 8 divisions or something in its hayday, with 6 clans or so in each division! Them were the days :wink: I don't know much about the American HLDM scene back then...it was quite seperate since 56k was standard at the time and connecting to servers on the other of the atlantic was not advisable :biggrin:

Campaignjunkie said:

Gwil said:
Luckily I learnt my lesson and moved to less "elitist" forums before I was sucked in by their 'charms'.

The lesson is obvious. Stay at Snarkpit - don't stray. :razz:

Mmm, was it the entire/majority Half-Life community being rude and condescending? I kind of find that hard to believe. Surely there were plenty of communities (other than Snarkpit!) that were decent? Sorry, I'm part of the generation of mappers that started as CS players who wanted to make some sort of lame clan map. Never touched WC 2.2 in my life - never even knew it was on the CD. :smile:

(On a sidenote... Was HL teamplay ever popular?)

snarkpit didn't exist then.. and yes there were exceptions.. PFL most notably.. at one time the site was.. very popular indeed..

WC 2.1 is on most CD's to my knowledge..

and yes, on the whole, the atmosphere for the n00b was trial by fire.. it was a sad situation back then.

Howdy fellas, This is Osias another team member and I just had to pop in here and say hello to all the fellow designers out their with experience & those without.

Sounds to me like you got a very stable pit running here allot o peeps.

On the whole this is a bad idea on recruiting dedicated people on a mod issue. I am all ears for anyones ideas on a better way to get the word out to people that we are here, not going anywere and need more people to tackle a project of this caliber. Truly if someone has a better way I would love to hear about it and implement it.

About the Mods going down the tube posts. Your absolutly right many do and I love and hate seeing that happen. My reasons are not just anyone can make a good mod. you may consider it a hobby but its more work then you can imagine. what i can say is that several people on the team have previous mod completions under their belt. Granted not everyone. It also means completing a mod is that much more of a accomplishment.

About the making a mod before it is a released game. Your right its very difficult to plan accordingly. But if you are a veteran of design then you understand the fundamentals of any engine and what will transfer over and what you can plan on etc. Their is so much work that can be done before a games release its not funny.

now to the a mod isnt anythign like a game post. Basiclly any game that has a base engine already and is just designing the content is a mod, and just as much work goes into building it as any other game. Unless you are building your own engine. If you are using a pre-exhsisting engine well your moding so to say.

Our mod will have mucho modifications to the engine to hopefully increase the dynamics of the game. Plus it will basiclly be a stand alone game if we had engine rights. IE that means all content will be designed by us.

I do believe someone in hear requested some images etc. Well thats a catch 22 with the engine not out yet. also even if it was i would not release any content to anyone that wasnt a staff member or has signed a NDA. Um NDA = non disclosure agreement. I will release the content when it is what we consider finished enough for public release. I dont like anything premature to leak. So soon we will have some and yes we will release some screenies but were not looking for people that want to hop on a bandwagon for a free ride. Were looking for more dedicated vets, to add to our already stable foundation of other vets.

But okay enough of the debate for me for now. these are just my thoughts on the subjects and probably your right slightly biased becuase of course im on the project.

Well really just wanted to say thanks for the support fellas its much appreciated. We need more positive minded people like you in the world. You make the world turn hehe. For all the negative people out their more power to you I hope you dont think the post is an arguement fashion. But really why so much hatred? did your momma not love you enough? or are you frustrated or something. sorry low blow lol i had too do it.

well for anyone that would be intrested or has questions and needs their doubts put to rest i would be happy to speak with you for several hours about our team. If you are experienced in this field you will surely see the strenth of our team. If not well truly good luck guys in whatever you do we need more real designers in this world.

Peace out fellas hope to land in the pit again soon :smile:

Yak_Fighter said:
at least it isn't a cs clone...

I don't know why people are bothering to start up mods for an unreleased game. You won't be able to accomplish anything substantial while you're waiting. I can't even bring myself to make plans for HL2 maps.

Wasn't there a guy not too long ago who wanted to make his own "mod" and yet it was pretty much based on decompiling CS and putting it back in a folder. And somehow that would make it his and not anything like CS. I recall we made a Fanta Shokata movie about it.

I tried to check back the link (I saved it.) But they've since changed their database and have a new theme for movies to make.

I completely agree with Vash. Weapon renders? - if even. I don't apologize if my response to a completely ridiculous premise is negative - it was supposed to be. There's no explanation as to why in hell corporations would be so successful in chaotic times where beings in no need of corporations magically appear that all government would disappear.

About CS clones, what amount of CS clones are actually released? Can you show me a CS clone that is a mod for HL? Because that's the main criticism that every mod on earth seems to be rated by, and so far I have seen none.

Selfish? I'll say what I will, and you will interpret it as you will. Just don't lose track of the point.

"Also, IMO, it's better to think lower of your work than be an arrogant idiot and think you're the best."

Naturally, I can't quite agree on this with you - I can't stand a fool whose work is substandard and yet loves themself because a thousand morons chant his praises and beg for him to release more stuff. But obviously, being me, I don't find pride is so simple a matter as something you can change at will, nor as that big of a problem.

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Haha, that's a cynical review quote if I ever heard one :razz:

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Welcome to the Snarkpit. This thread gets a 2/10.