Gentlemen, we've really got to stop.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Spartan 34</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>
Why would you still consider yourself a noob?

</DIV></DIV>
i have my reasons. suffice it to say, that i realized ages ago that the more i learn about mapping the more there is to learn.

(like multi_managers) :smile:

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting satchmo</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quote:</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>Sloth I miss your old avatar... </DIV></DIV>
I like your new one. Isn't this little statuette from the movie "Dogma"? Was his name "Buddy Jesus"?
</DIV></DIV>
i know the image for quite some time but with a different subscript : "jesus loves you! but i think you're a c*nt"

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Andrei</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>(like multi_managers) :smile: </DIV></DIV>

yes, and no.. i can make maps without the need to understand MM's, obviously, i have 9 of them. but the issue is complex layout and design considerations, i falter a bit when it comes to such complexities.

anyways, how i view myself, is always somewhat lower than others do, or worse, what they think i do of myself. there is not a single member here whom knows it all, so in one form or another we are all n00b's
course, thats just my definition of the word.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Andrei</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>(like multi_managers) :smile: </DIV></DIV>
I was talking about myself . It took me 2 months of research to figure those damn things out :biggrin: . Changelevels are another mystery. I can make them only one way... b'ah, i'm a MP mapper, why do i care?

Prologue:
I started mapping back in the 90'ties when mapping meant connecting two or more vertexes and setting a floor and roof height. I've mapped for a long time, but releases over the last years have been few and scarce, my one time fame and honour has long faded since then.

Why did I post this? As a new user, but not quite a n00b, my point of view is that it is all about respect. In a fast growing community you often ending up having to earn it instead of getting it. Normally not getting respect means that you won't be treating anyone with it neither.

Somewhere it works great, other places not so good. In both cases you have to be a humble user.

As a new user I shouldn't go around correcting others, asking silly questions before reading the faqs, or post meaningless post. As a regular user you normally get the privilege of not having peoples second guessing you, sometimes it can make you forget your responsibilities (I've done this more than once). Other times new users just don't know when to stop and had it coming.

Anyhow, I'm glad I'm here and hopefully I'll get to help peoples without being stomped to much in the start ;-)

P.S. You are doing all doing great.

Kissmet, with that attitude, I don't expect you'll have any problems. :smile:

Orph, I don't quite see how you can classify yourself as a "n00b" just because there are things about mapping you don't know. To me, "n00b" implies not simply complete ignorance, but a demonstrated incapability or disinclination to find things out for yourself.

There are few mappers I would consider "great", ReNo, KFS, and Ferret come to mind. Most of the rest of us fall into a hazy category somewhere below their level. N00bism is an attitude, not a state of knowledge. There are some nameless souls who are permanent n00bs. No matter how long they hang around they will always be at the bottom of the food chain. However, there are others who never deserve, or indeed receive the label, however briefly they have been associated with the community. Basically, if you are smart, self-reliant, and reasonably humble, you can never be a true n00b. If you lack these characteristics, or are incapable of learning them, you are, and always will be one.

I'm inclined to agree with Tracer Bullet on this one.

There are some nameless souls who are permanent n00bs. No
matter how long they hang around they will always be at the bottom of
the food chain. However, there are others who never deserve, or indeed
receive the label, however briefly they have been associated with the
community. Basically, if you are smart, self-reliant, and reasonably
humble, you can never be a true n00b. If you lack these
characteristics, or are incapable of learning them, you are, and always
will be one.

One need only mosey down to the VERC forums to see many, many examples
of noobishness in action. It's quite frightening, really.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Orpheus</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>I think at this point one of the greatest movie lines ever is fitting..

adopts small childs voice

"Mommy?"

</DIV></DIV>
Maybe you should loosen that vice grip Jon, it sounds painfull. :biggrin:

Some images in this post have been automatically down-sized, click on them to view the full sized versions:

<a href="http://verdensrommet.com/%7Ekissmet/3mon-gammelt.jpg" target="_blank"></a>

Sorry to derail the thread, but is this yours kiss?

edit: I was perusing your website with the hope of finding wonderful
things. All I got was this and picture of you with a crazy hairdo.

Sorry to derail the thread, but is this yours kiss?

edit: I was perusing your website with the hope of finding wonderful
things. All I got was this and picture of you with a crazy hairdo.

Yes those are mine, a.t.m. I'm only runing with the center and left screen from this picture (I just moved 2000km and didn't bring the CRT).

I'm sorry but my website contains mostly crazy stuff. Let me know what wonderful things you need and I will do my wery best.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Tracer Bullet</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>

Orph, I don't quite see how you can classify yourself as a "n00b" just because there are things about mapping you don't know. To me, "n00b" implies not simply complete ignorance, but a demonstrated incapability or disinclination to find things out for yourself.

</DIV></DIV>

as i said, i have my own reasons.. none of which i could put into words in any way that would not sound either full of self pity, or slanderous to my peers. suffice it to say, i feel differently about my position in the mapping world than others do. i am not a complete moron, but when i look around and see how many mappers shot right past me in skill and such especially when i was so far ahead of many........
/nuff said :sad:

I think a n00b is a simple new-comer who lacks knowledge and experience. Nothing more.

I hadn't noticed that much flaming directed at new members - generally I think as a whole the more established members have been pretty darn accepting.

Oh, and were all newbies in certain areas. I certainly wouldn't consider myself top of my game - even after 'doing time' in the industry. There's always new things to learn, or things we just can't grasp no matter how hard we try.

My personal failing is map layouts - I create dozens of maps and only occasionally does one shine a little more than the others and reach completion.

As a new comer I have to admit it's best to keep it shut and learn before throwing yourself into the lions den by posting a s**t map!! :biggrin:

I want to revise my original statement.

Newcomers: make an attempt to be on topic, to add useful (or at very least relevant) comments whenever you post or reply, to spell correctly and not burst into CAPS AND HUGE FONTS?!?!?!?!? whenever you feel a sudden rush of hormonal emotion. Some of the posts you guys have been adding look like they belong on the GameFAQs forums, and to me that's just as unacceptable as regulars fighting. If you wanted to be treated well, make some sort of an effort at projecting a respectable image.

Thank you, ribbz.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting kissmet</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>

In a fast growing community you often ending up having to earn it instead of getting it. Normally not getting respect means that you won't be treating anyone with it neither.

Somewhere it works great, other places not so good. In both cases you have to be a humble user.

As a new user I shouldn't go around correcting others, asking silly questions before reading the faqs, or post meaningless post. As a regular user you normally get the privilege of not having peoples second guessing you, sometimes it can make you forget your responsibilities (I've done this more than once). Other times new users just don't know when to stop and had it coming.

</DIV></DIV>
this isnt said out loud often. maybe because some ppl find it obvious, while maybe others never though about it. in any case, very true

The only time I would ever flame anyone, particularly a n00b, is when they make comments on maps that aren't of any use to anyone, or act like they are the king of mapping and therefore have the right to tell people their work sucks, despite the fact they have no experience or work of their own.

I was, like everyone else, a n00b once (about 4 years ago). But, like most n00bs, I knew my place, graciously and gratefully accepting usefull advice and criticism because the people with experience generally knew more than me. It's only when they get too big for their briches that they get flamed.

To my knowledge I've only partially flamed one person on this site, and more than likely it will be the only person.

I think the best option in this case would be if you haven't got anything nice or constructive to say, don't say anything at all.