Tomorrow, we have in the UK our general election, which to outsiders is where we choose our local MPs and thus our new Prime Minister. Obviously, Tony Blair has been the PM for the last 8 years, and is going for his last term at this election.

Now, Labour have really c**ked things up here over the time they've been in Office- the only nice thing anyone can say about them is this family tax credit scheme they've introduced, and that "the economy is doing well," which to be fair isn't really their doing (we've actually dropped a lot in productivity, and have a huge trade deficit). Our population isn't increasing or becoming more ill yet hospital waiting times are up and there are ridiculous "targets" imposed on them and GPs (anyone see Question Time last week on TV?), and crap about privatisation. They have utterly f**ked up education: see the whole AS-level scandal and increased exams for all, that they pay A-level students a 'wage' just to turn up to school yet University students now have to pay back a massive loan to get a degree (and it's even worse for post-graduates), and this nonsense about "academies" where anyone can donate some money towards getting a new school built, and be able to dictate some of the curriculum taught. The trains aren't any better, streets no safer, the blatantly corrupt European Parliament is seeping power away, there are blatant problems with the postal ballot system; yet they blame the last government for all these problems, 8 years ago. They've had scandals with MPs (Keith Vaz and Peter Mandelson are still going, and David Blunkett is set to make a come back), take one of the highest tax cuts from petrol in the world (we must pay about 5 times as much for petrol as in the USA), making the world unsafer with this war in Iraq, and the foot and mouth scandal was just a... scandal.

Recently they've been hit with a number of 'scandals' of sorts- a defecting MP, published legal advice saying that the war in Iraq really needed another UN resolution (and that it appeared that there was something dodgy going on between the government/attorney general), a solider being killed in Iraq and the parents "personally blaming Tony Blair" for it, and a huge MG Rover factory shutting down after telling the government for years that it's unsustainable and that the Chinese owners were only ever after the brand name for themselves. Yet, all the polls show Labour increasing in popularity. Thanks to Blair, government spin over the last 8 years has made people lose a lot of trust in our politicians- and it seems the more wrong he does, the more people dislike him, but most of it rubs off on the opposition leaders.

So, in conclusion, Blair is a m0ng and for god's sake don't vote for him tomorrow, or else we're going to be in a world of hurt :redface: /end canvassing

Yay! good luck, hope you dont get skull f*cked like us =)

Not being in Britain, I wouldnt know exactly how it is, but it cant be as bad as you say... youre obviously emphasising the bad points about the government, and avoiding mentioning the good theyve done (which they must have since, as you say, the polls show them increasing in popularity).

Of course that education thing sounds like it sucks... you have to pay back your loan before you get the degree? Or is it just that theyre making you pay it back at some point? Here it gets added onto income tax (if you earn above a certain amount, you effectively pay more income tax until the loan is repaid), and has been afaik since the 80s.

"the economy is doing well," which to be fair isn't really their doing (we've actually dropped a lot in productivity, and have a huge trade deficit).

Productivity as in GDP growth I take it... theyre not really long-term bad things technically, but still, the people saying that are probably stupid and dont understand the issues...

omg i didnt mean to make this post that long...

I tend to try not to comment on politics, but just this once I'll make
an exception. I suspect that Labour is becoming more popular due to the
fact that this is Blair's last term. People are voting for the idea
that Brown will soon take over, and they apparently like him for the
economy. What will happen when Brown does take over is a different
matter.

On a side note, I completely agree with what you say Lep, plus the fact
that in Britain a teacher gets attacked every 7 minutes of the school
day (not the same teacher, I must point out! :biggrin: ) and various other
points, but that's just my personal opinion. To be fair, Labour did
privatise the Bank of England, which everybody agrees was a good move
now. I had a mock election yesterday, in which I was opposing Labour,
so suffice to say I have a lot of statistics! :smile:

/2 cents

Ok, ok, I retract.

The ema is quite a bit of bull****. I get it, and pretty much the only
reason I don't work is that I get this (soon to change as I have
applied for a couple of jobs which I should here from next week). There
is the whole thing of it suppose to help pay for travel etc, but tbqfh
I see something different when I see others buying clothes, cd's etc
with it. There are a lot of people at my college who travel by train to
get here, but quite a lot of others are from around here and it costs
them under ?10 to get here each week. Why use it for food, the food
here is pretty crap unless you go to the sport's cafe above the hall,
but that's too small to cater for everyone, why not bring a lunch?

I guess my view was clouded by the fact that I get ema.

So you are saying it's better to pay uni students a 'wage'. Whats
better, getting more people to go into college so they can at least see
they have a future, because tbqfh more yr 11's don't have a f**king
clue what they want to do so they end up thinking they are going to
work on a building site or work in asda the rest of their lives, or
paying a small amount of student's a 'wage' to go to uni, and I mean
small because if you pay uni students rather than college students then
there aren't as many college student's to go to uni because unless you
go to college it's pretty f**king hard to get into uni.

I see very little wrong with the ema scheme. Most people I know make good use of it.

I think the main issue here is not getting people to go to college/uni

• I think a lot of people would agree with you on this point, but the

problem is student finance. The current threshold for top-up fees is
too low for a start, and getting employment after university is too
difficult. Bear in mind that using wages as a "bribe" for students
isn't really a great solution. It helps, but the policy of "one size
fits all" universal inclusion may not be the right one. There are other
methods, and I feel that these wages are literally more of a bribe than
anything else.

Anyway, thats a total of 4 cents now. As far as I am concernned, "enough of talking, it is time now to do". :biggrin:

They have utterly f**ked up education: see the whole AS-level
scandal and increased exams for all, that they pay A-level students a
'wage' just to turn up to school yet University students now have to
pay back a massive loan to get a degree (and it's even worse for
post-graduates),

So you are saying it's better to pay uni students a 'wage'. Whats
better, getting more people to go into college so they can at least see
they have a future, because tbqfh more yr 11's don't have a f**king
clue what they want to do so they end up thinking they are going to
work on a building site or work in asda the rest of their lives, or
paying a small amount of student's a 'wage' to go to uni, and I mean
small because if you pay uni students rather than college students then
there aren't as many college student's to go to uni because unless you
go to college it's pretty f**king hard to get into uni.

I see very little wrong with the ema scheme. Most people I know make good use of it.

Or maybe they can just not pay anybody anything, and let the colleges and universities handle scholarships.

It seems to work in most places in the world... Is there some
other reason why this can't be done in the UK? Am I over-simplifying?

I see what you mean.

/picks up 2 cents.

What I don't get is the whole fee thing for uni, there seem to be serveral; student loans, top up fees etc.

I can sympathise with the situation Lep, we've got the same problem
with our Prime Minister here, except most of the public believes his
lies everytime. He raises taxes, adds new taxes, and does just about
everything to squeeze money out of people; then hoards it, not spending
it where its needed, till election time; then wastes it all on s**tty
policy to bribe all the f**ktards in the population into voting for him.

I'm sure Desplesda, 2dmin and other Australian members will agree with me that the system is borked.

Not to mention the fact that they allowed uni's to raise course costs
by 30% (basically $100-300 depending on the course, for each course,
each session), then decided to abolish compulsory student union fee's
to give the poor student a break ($80 a year). It was only done to cut
off funding to the groups who protest his policies.

Curse you John Howard, may you burn in hell.

Oh it seems that not only Germany is going to become s**tty in education, economy and politics.

Nice post Lep. I cant even begin to comprehend how labour are getting
more popular given the amount of bs they do. Someone I know is voting
for Labour but when i asked why, she didn't have an
answer....................

i think the more important question would be, 'would you buy a used car from ANY politician that you've seen recently?'. they're all twisted power-hungry s**ts, prepared to mislead everyone for their own personal ends. why vote for any of them?

i know that down south, there is the belief that the people of scotland complain unfairly about their treatment from english governments. the unfair treatment isn't a myth, it's the reason that the tories will never be voted in here. the anti-tory stance here really only makes elections a one horse race.

if people were more politically astute, then i doubt that we'd even have 10% of our current mp's.

every time i see michael howard, i see the confidence of a man that's just found out there are photos on the net of him shagging a dog. there is something seriously amiss with that guy.

wil5on said:
Not being in Britain, I wouldnt know exactly how it is, but it cant be as bad as you say... youre obviously emphasising the bad points about the government, and avoiding mentioning the good theyve done (which they must have since, as you say, the polls show them increasing in popularity)

That's half of my point, I can't say anything good about what they've done- they let the Bank of England decide interest rates or some such 8 years ago, this family tax credit scheme, and that we haven't had some horrific stock market crash or somesuch. Anything else? Er, not that I can think of, really; yes of course the world isn't about to end, but the region I live in is going to pot, thanks to foot and mouth, ridiculously priced petrol, a ban on hunting, and thousands of new houses being built with minimal/no community infrastructure such as schools or shops to go with (plus, the economy doing well means that all the city people are buying local houses which puts up prices, and prevents locals from buying any!)

but it cant be as bad as you say

My guess is that even if it were as bad as he says, it still would be a
whole lot better than in many other european countries IMHO. :smile:

It seems a lot of people are disliking our Mr Blair so they are even voting for the other parties :S

I am not going to say who I am voting for because it might cause anger!

I just hope our Country is sorted out!

It seems a lot of people are disliking our Mr Blair so they are even voting for the other parties :S
I am not going to say who I am voting for because it might cause anger!

I just hope our Country is sorted out!

whats the voting age over there?

18.

18.

rofl, i herd on the news there going to soon be making that 16.....

Yay I go voting soon and I aint wasting any ink on Blar or Howard.

The ema is annoying especially when I carnt get it and really need some art stuff and have to go scrounging off other people on the course so I can get the work done.

Labours really helped the comunity I live in it is now a class 1 povity area so its as bad as the city in Poland that makes furniture for Ikea, and there are more houses going up even tough there are aload of empty ones around and the one that backs on to my house is derilict and was supposed to be demolished last year.

Aparently crime is falling yet there seem to be more shootings in notts than before but that could just be that the news is reporting it more.

But anyway I dont want any of the partys to win cos I dont like any of them especially Labor and the tories but no doubt we will end up with one of those two running the country into the ground.

[EDIT]
Yeh I heard that they were thinking of droping the age to 16 cos not enough people that have turned 18 during this term want to vote for any of the partys

another point, nothing is being done about proper food in the schools
either, it has been proved better healthier eating improves
concentration and motivation.

Jamies School Dinners.

Yea but what is actually being done by the government, I know about JSD I watched it all the way through.

Sloth, WTF does the government have to do with what people eat? I'd say that's a pretty damn personal choice.

Free Uni? My education cost 20,000+ USD/year... I don't know what you guys are bitching about.

To be honest, most of the listed woes sound kind of petty... a ban on hunting... too few houses? you live on a tiny island with millions of people. Do the math. That sort of thing is only going to get worse irrespective of the government.

Jamies shool dinners was excellent tbh, Reminds me of infant shool. We
used to get good food in our schools in thsi country back then you know

/

you don't even want to know what my college charges me... bleh.
and i'm starting to think i'd learn more just going out and having life
experiences.

We left Europe for a reason.

I'm not in Europe!

Yup You know this country is going tits up when i have to wait nearly 2
weeks to see my G.P,unless I'm dying.The rights for people who live in
this country are nearly non-exsistent,you have to be a refugee to get
anything.I lost my job recently and went to the job centre to get
myself re-trained and got told because I dont have a criminal record
and because my first language is English,I cannot apply for any
re-training until I have been signing on for 18 months.If Blair gets in
again,we will look as mis-understood and stupid as the yanks who voted
that idiot Bush back in office(no offence)

In the recent Iraq elections 61% of the population went to vote with
the risk of being shot or blown-up hanging over them.I would be
surprised if the U.K get anywhere near that figure.

Anyway im off to vote for Lib-dems,maybe a wasted vote but I'll be buggered by a pig before i vote for any of the others.

Ain't no black in the Union Jack!

What's that extremely racist anti-immigration party that's running?

The BNP? (British Nationalist Party) They're mainly about having inner-cities back, since many of them now have large Indian/Pakistani/Muslim/whatever populations, but yes, they are a piss-poor excuse for a political party. The only people they will ever appeal to is people who've been somehow attacked or hurt by ethnic minorities in this country. BUT we do live in a democracy (er, of sorts) and they even get free air-time on the main radio/TV stations, along with other large enough parties.

I like the fact that the NF (National Front) apparently criticised the
BNP for not being racist enough. It seems to reduce both parties to
absurdity.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/05/international/europe/05cnd-britain.html?hp&ex=1115352000&en=8398caee88c0fe86&ei=5094&partner=homepage

Sorry Lep :sad:

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Addicted to Morphine</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/05/international/europe/05cnd-britain.html?hp&ex=1115352000&en=8398caee88c0fe86&ei=5094&partner=homepage

Sorry Lep :sad:
</DIV></DIV>

I'm not sorry, in fact I'm extremely happy that the Labour Party has won an historic third term in office, but then again I'm old enough to remember the eighteen years of misery under the conservatives.

I now feel a lot more secure about our economy, and not so worried about being able to continue to pay back the mortgage on my home.

As for corruption, well there may have been some people in the Labour party who used their positions to make personal gains, but compared to the many crooked sleazeballs the tories had when they ran the country, they are saints.

Do I get a ban for having opposing views to the #1 member? :smile:

Heck I hardly understand the US politics.. forget trying to understand the UK's.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/05/international/europe/05cnd-britain.html?hp&ex=1115352000&en=8398caee88c0fe86&ei=5094&partner=homepage

Sorry Lep :sad:

tis a shame.

me i voted conservatives.

why... becuase i dont like the hunting with dogs ban. and i dont like the ginger tosser from lib dem

I'm not sorry, in fact I'm extremely happy that the Labour Party
has won an historic third term in office, but then again I'm old enough
to remember the eighteen years of misery under the conservatives.
I now feel a lot more secure about our economy, and not so worried
about being able to continue to pay back the mortgage on my home.

As for corruption, well there may have been some people in the
Labour party who used their positions to make personal gains, but
compared to the many crooked sleazeballs the tories had when they ran
the country, they are saints.

Do I get a ban for having opposing views to the #1 member? :smile:

Okay I really really try not to post about politics, but I was wondering if anyone shares the same views as me, so here goes.

The Conservatives were running the country eight years ago, and
various references have been made by this government to things which
happened fifteen years ago. Is it right that we should be looking this
far back, especially when there have been so many Tory leadership
changes? Similarly, if it is right, why don't we talk about the Winter
of Discontent under Labour when everyone went on strike - scarily
echoing the fuel strike we've had under this government and the fuel
strike which was threatened to take place on May 3rd?

Sorry to be so argumentative, I just can't help but feel the focus
of the Labour campaign ("don't let the tories in, they did something
bad fifteen years ago") missed the point, and skipped serious current issues like education, crime (and particularly violent crime - 3000 per day), health etc.

/6 cents - I'm gonna lose a lot of cash here

lol of course you don't get banned for voting Labour, though I think it's wrong that people keep saying "ooh 8 years ago..." Each to their own though, but I and many of my friends/family have been hurt by Labour's incompetence and short-sightedness, especially in the area of education and rural life. Loco, Labour have been quite coy about most of their issues such as tax and education, saying they're "going to wait" until after the election to see, which is why they keep attacking the Conservatives. Yes, Michael Howard was a part of that last Government, but he made some good and bad- like with everyone. Now, there is quite a clear divide here- look at an election map and you'll see how the South voted Conservative, and the North and some cities voted Labour.

If you thought the 70's/80's were "years of hell" you should ask yourself why this was, and what someone else would have done differently and better- the government really does not have that much control over the economy, they can't really "do a USA" and ban imports for other countries to protect their own in the fact of international trade agreements :rolleyes: In fact, if you want to go further back, how about arguing that the Labour government before Thatcher stuffed up the economy, and as a result many of our manufacturing etc. industried failed? And my prediction for this term is the same- the economy will go downhill, more standards will erode ("oooh 12 years ago..!") and they will only last 4 more years on their measly 36% of the vote :sad:

Now, I think the most disgusting aspect about this whole election is how the f**k George Galoway managed to get voted in for his "anti-war" stance. He's not anti-war, he's pro-Iraqi-government-pocket His interview with Paxman last night was hilarious, too.

Nice to see I'm not the only one on this site who reads private eye! :smile:

Thanks for your response Leperous, I'm pleased that you feel there is no need for any animosity between members for holding different political viewpoints.

On a personal note, I have several reasons for being happy with Labours win. For the first nine years of my working life I was in the army, where we were expected, if not brainwashed into having a conservative outlook on life, and I fell into that way of thinking along with the majoirity of my fellow soldiers. This was also at a time when Labour was in power and the recent troubles in Northern Ireland had just got started. The trade unions had a vice like grip on the country and the economy was in a terrible state. I left the army in 1976 and my political views changed somewhat, when I had the chance to experience real life outside the institution that was military life. When the conservatives did take power in the late seventies, they took on the unions and reduced their power, and that was in retrospect probably a good thing, although I naturally hated them at the time of the miners strikes, as my brother was a coal miner. Gradually though, they introduced a very selfish mindset throughout the eighties, which although encouraging entrepeneurship and business, left a lot off the less well of in our country worse off, and the sleaze and corruption became evident (Cecil Parkinson, John Redfield, Jeffrey Archer, Leslie Hamilton, Jonathon Aitken and many more).

I know Labour are not perfect, but I want to live in a more inclusive society that looks after everyone, not matter what their background, creed or racial ethnicity, physical ability or sexuality, and I believe that for the moment, they are the party to do that. I'm not that keen on Tony Blair, but I voted on policies not personalities.

As for the hunting with dogs issue, I have nothing against hunting per se, I just believe that if a species needs to be controlled, there are far more humane ways to do so, other than terrorising an animal to exhaustion to then be torn apart by a pack of dogs.

Oh, just an aside...I live in the south-east, a small red dot in a sea of blue!

Oops ranting on a bit here....sorry guys!

At least we are fortunate enough to be free to express our opinions without fear of persecution. :smile: