The return of the king

What with the imanent lesease of the third movie, just thought i'de see who else was a big fan like me. (of the books) The second film sucked, but i'm hoping the'll pull their socks up for this one.

last time i commented on this,yak_fighter threatened my very life :eek:

actually, he was shocked, but still i felt queasy for a while, like he put a mojo on me or something :dodgy:

never read the books, not really a reader myself. I loved the films though.

Ah, come on, it just a film. The books are so much better than the films anyway. They missed out the best bit of book one (Tom Bambadilo chapters.) Its one of the ongoing debates about the lord of the rings, who is Tom Bambadilo? Some say he's Eru, some just say hes an Elf/Man.

The books have so much more content than the films and it's much easier to get immersed in them because of all the history and extra charecters who are around.

So many extra charecters like: glorfindal, fatty bolger, farmer cotton, tom bombadil... god thats jsut from the first few chapters!! I saw the trailor for lotr3 before revolutions and i wanted to pee my pants. Looks great!

it would take a lot more than 3 movies to do justice to the books.

and ol' yellow boots cant be a man/elf, cuz he was in middle earth before the elves, who were there before men.

Honestly the movies are good, if you take them to be movies, and don't compare them to the books.

LOTR is an incredible literary acheivement and a great story, but face it, tolkine just was not a very good writer. long stretches of those books are simply boring, and if you are cought up in the drama of the story, his long historical interludes are absolutly painfull. there are few other authors with his propensity for irrelevent tangential elaboration.

Don't get me wrong, I've read them at least three times, but my point stands.

Oh, and I don't see how ther can be any dabate about Bombadil. it says stright up the he is the Eldest. Bombadil is master. that is all you need to know.

reading is still my most favorite past-time, and i feel there are much better choices to make movies into than any tolkien book..

the shanarra series for one would be an excellent choice, along with a few from the darksun universe.

i own all the hobbit books and they all reeked, i only continue to own them because i think all books are sacred..

Orpheus said:
reading is still my most favorite past-time, and i feel there are much better choices to make movies into than any tolkien book..

the shanarra series for one would be an excellent choice, along with a few from the darksun universe.

i own all the hobbit books and they all reeked, i only continue to own them because i think all books are sacred..

are you kidding Orph? I mean, I know I just said Tolkine wasn't a very good author, but Terry Brooks is horrible. Of course I've only read part of "the sword of shanarra" (I got disgusted and put it down) but it read like a bad immitation of LOTR. the post apocolyptic spin is kind of clever, but it doesn't come off well in my opinion.

if you want a truely great fantasy series, try "Song of Ice and Fire" by George R. R. Martin. absolutly fantastic.

"Thw Wheel of Time" is also rather good, but Jordan should have put it to rest about three or four books ago. it's getting rather stagnant.

not kidding one ounce, but i have noticed over 35 odd years of books, that opinions about reading material are an extremely wide range..

i find tolkien very poor, but others are the opposite, i love ERB, i think he is the best all time author ever, others find him barely quaint.

i was told for years that the "Elric" books were the best of the best fantasy adventure books ever, after about 5 years of searching, i managed to acquire them all, and you know what, they were horrible, absolutely horrible.

still others like the dragon lance books, i don't, i prefer forgotten realms.. bottom-line, people will read what they like, and prolly never fully agree.

i am betting some others here found the shanarra books as fantastic as i do, and as boorish as you did.. ah well, i can live with it..

i judge an author, on their re-readability, and i have read all 11 books about john carter a dozen times or more each..

Long Live John Carter :biggrin:

Ever since I've started trying to write, I'm much more picky about my reading material. if the author doen't use the language in a genuinely interesting way, I find it unreadable.

This I think is one of the major reasons for the popularity of Harry Potter. the stories are in some ways quite weak, but Rowling uses the language in a way that is irresitably entertaining.

If you havn't read them, you should definatly check out Martin's stuff. They are truely dark, which appeals to me immensly amongst the literary glut of happy endings.

I'm not nearly as widely read as I'd like to be (no time), so I didn't recognize any of what you just threw out, except forgotten relams, but I've never read any of those, as I stay away from any sort of mass market worlds like star wars, star trek, forgotten realms, ect.

ERB=Edgar Rice Burroughs.. tarzan man?

and you should at least follow the starwars universe, it has some sort of a copyrights rule, that if an author writes a timeline, no one else can conflict it, unless its in a legitimate way..

funny thing, the ones i find most interesting are the very ones you avoid :razz:

i am a hardcore sci-fi nut as well tho, i cannot even name them all, but my repertoire is prolly in the 10's of hundreds of books read, or re-read :smile:

i would be afraid to type all the book titles i have read, it would just be too long, and as lep once said, it looks like i went to the library and copied all the sci-fi/fantasy section to paper :heee:

i suggest to anyone, broaden your horizons just a touch, and if the book is really good, knowing its contents will not ruin it, get someone to tell you what its about in depth, cause there is nothing worse than taking someones word for the quality, and no details to back them up..

matt said:
Ah, come on, it just a film. The books are so much better than the films anyway. They missed out the best bit of book one (Tom Bambadilo chapters.) Its one of the ongoing debates about the lord of the rings, who is Tom Bambadilo? Some say he's Eru, some just say hes an Elf/Man.

Tom Bombadil is a... Quevehsdkhsd. I forget what he's called, but he's the same rank as Gandalf, actually.

Unfortunately, yes, I read the Silmarillion.

Cassius, the word you are looking for is Istari.

Quenya skills ++;

all this sci fi talk, and no Bradbury or Wells mentioned anywhere....hmmm...////contemplates the merits of mass hypnotism on snarkpit... :heee:

Doc Brass... :dodgy:

Dr Brasso said:
all this sci fi talk, and no Bradbury or Wells mentioned anywhere....hmmm...////contemplates the merits of mass hypnotism on snarkpit... :heee:

Doc Brass... :dodgy:

i don't like wells to much, but ray is a favorite of mine..

i don't jest, i have about 1000 titles under my belt since gradeschool..

one of these days, i will attempt to make a list and just see, it could very well be more, but does anyone really recall every book they have read? well i suppose you could if the number was less than half a dozen :heee:

H.G. Wells is one of my favorites. I've only read, The Time Machiene and The Island of Dr. Morau, but both were fantastic.

Tracer Bullet said:
H.G. Wells is one of my favorites. I've only read, The Time Machiene and The Island of Dr. Morau, but both were fantastic.

well i guess TB, that either we need to accept that we have opposite likes, or we need to confer and see if somewhere on page 17 that we have at least one book we both like :biggrin:

the movies of wells were better IMO, the actual writing was slow and boring..

I've never seen either of the movies, and you are right, the writing is rather slow, butI've never read anything form that time peroid that wasn't.

Tracer Bullet said:
I've never seen either of the movies, and you are right, the writing is rather slow, butI've never read anything form that time peroid that wasn't.

EBR.. read some burroughs, preferably carter..

circa 1912

for the record, the newest movie version of the time machine is best, you should locate it..

What Tolkein truly accomplished was not incredible writing. What he accomplished was a fully articulated world in which his story takes place, a whole other place with its own rules, that is self substantial, and in a reader's mind, every bit as real as this one. No one before him even came close, very few after. Most of those that come after still don't come within miles of the historical detail to which his world was planned.

Regarding Brooks: His worlds seem so tiny to me. People come out of no where, things come out of no where. Cities exist and we accept that they do for little reason. There is no thought into economy, history, etc. It's quite fairy talish. The world of Shannara is thousands times more substantial than the awful imaging used in the Magic Kingdom series. I'd recommend them more for younger readers - once I hit about 15 I banned myself from reading anymore of his stuff. They are simple in plot, though, in a genre typically dominated by complexity, and as such might survive a movie translation.

Regarding Martin: This man is absolutely brilliant. He absolutely defies everything about what you believe the rules of structure are. He is willing to kill whoever dies (not just who deserves to die)... and for the most part, they stay dead. What I find more amazing though is his ability to jump into the mind of characters you absolutely hate and turn them into characters you can empathize with. If after the first book you told me Jamie, the Kingslayer, would be the focal point for a bunch of chapters, I woulda kicked you in the nuts (please don't kick me in the nuts, if all you've read is the first). The preview for the fourth book shows that we'll be looking through Cersei's eyes. All we need now is a Gregor Clegane chapter... although he hopefully won't be around much longer. Martin's books are incredibly complex though, and I doubt anything short of an not-so-mini mini series could come anywhere close to doing them justice. He has worked as a screenwriter before though, so hold out hope he may write something specifically for the screen - it could be incredible.

we can all agree that reading has many styles and likes, but it is refreshing to know that many of us find reading pleasant.

i think its cool that we all have more in common than mapping :smile:

ya know, its been quite awhile actually since i sat down with a book that wasnt a friggin' techy-laden dry fart drivel crapola manual of some sort.... :eek: ....that actually sounds like a good plan for the rest of the evening....thanx guys...W00T!

Doc Brass... :dodgy:

Cash Car Star said:
Regarding Martin: This man is absolutely brilliant. He absolutely defies everything about what you believe the rules of structure are. He is willing to kill whoever dies (not just who deserves to die)... and for the most part, they stay dead. What I find more amazing though is his ability to jump into the mind of characters you absolutely hate and turn them into characters you can empathize with. If after the first book you told me Jamie, the Kingslayer, would be the focal point for a bunch of chapters, I woulda kicked you in the nuts (please don't kick me in the nuts, if all you've read is the first). The preview for the fourth book shows that we'll be looking through Cersei's eyes. All we need now is a Gregor Clegane chapter.

Beautifully put. Wasn't that one chapter where he appears to kill off three of the starks brutal? I was so angry! I love it!! I heard Martin got his start writing for the little murmaid cartoon. I think that must have built up some amazing desire to kill off main characters.

The most shocking moment for me had to be the sudden change of power that happened right at the end of the third book. What is not explicitly said has not necessarily occured though, there are few enough returns for you to keep hoping. Personally, I'm hoping the Wildling named Grigg the Goat is still up and running around - besides sharing a name with me, he was all around cool for a wildling that we aren't certain died, although it is highly likely. It makes the reading so much more intense when you know your favorite character or your favorite enemy could die any second. I don't get that feeling to the same extent when I read Tad Williams, Robert Jordan or Terry Goodkind - my other uberthick novelists of choice for now.

I finished the second book, but I just didn't start the third for some reason ... lotr is heavy reading, particularly some chapters in the 2nd book...

tom bombadilo is AWESOME! i love his song :biggrin:

lol mrben, everything makes you want to pee your pants :razz:

yes, the movies rock. A film is a film, a book is a book. the film does not have to "do justice to the book", as it is a separate endeavour entirely.

Peeing my pants is fun and i do it quite regulary when it comes to lotr.

ehehehe

Ih?ve just started reading the books (again). I love the movies, too :smile:

I have read through the first book and when I saw the film I was dissapointed that they didn't imclude Tom Bombadilo.

I am about a 1/4 the way through the 2nd book and I have seen the film for it I'm not a very avid reader as lotr series and the hobbit are the only books I own but I am realy enjoying reading them when i pick them up which isn't very often.

DesPlesda said:
Cassius, the word you are looking for is Istari.

Nay, he wasn't Istari (The elvish word for Wizard I believe) The whole point of Tom is that he epitimises the ideas of middle earth and Tolkens' world as a whole. He is still a mystry as too what or who he is, Tolkien never actually said that he was or wasn't one thing or another. The wizards, of whom only three of the five we ever hear about in LOTR, came after the end of the second age to aid the free peoples of middle earth.

And Whats going on with the Sci-fi thing, you guys havn't mentioned Terry Prachett, in my opinion the funnyiest and best Fantasy writter. (living that is) His books are inventive and extremely humorous. Some of his newer books are wearing a little thin, but the first dozen or so are very, very good.

Phey, think thats it!

the last book i read was almost a year ago. genesis revisited, by zecharia sitchin. some might call it sci-fi, but it really explains how, around 6000 years ago, the dudes on the planet that's not been found yet, came here and, using their own dna, genetically engineered some high primates to be their workers. then the alien dudes had a fight between themselves and pissed off home, leaving us to get on with it..............

....................'till they come back, that is.

true story, btw :eek:

also have read the first and second book, and a chapter of the third. never got around to finishing it.
can anyone tell me when the third movie is out?

It comes out on the 17th of December or go to www.lordoftherings.net - quality site, nick the quicktime video, I did!

Diarmaid! He returns! With the greatest avatar known to man :biggrin:

sadly, i hated the books and the movie so much, i have yet to view the 2nd film at all, in spite of the fact that i dloaded it ages ago :sad:

the movies IMO suffer from the same slow, draggy storyline as the books, the transition was not a step up or down :sad:

usually the movies show some marked differences, but both are hard viewing..

still i know its only a matter of taste here, my view is not shared by many about this story.

i like movies that do not require one to look to close to see the inner intent, if i have to understand tolkien to like the movies/books, then tolkien lost a potential viewer..

Orpheus said:
the movies IMO suffer from the same slow, draggy storyline as the books, the transition was not a step up or down :sad:

You said that some guy made a threat against you about the lord of the rings? keep it coming Orpheus...

All I have to say on this can be boiled down to a few generalities:

1. The books, in my opinion, are the best I've ever read. Nothing compares with them.

2. The movies are for the most part a very good representation of the books within the amorphous contraints of cinema, but there are parts of the movies that I think are inexcusably stupid.

3. The movies could have been made more "exciting" by bastardising Tolkien even more than they already do. I hold that their restraint in this is a Very Good Thing (just as, pace Priestley, negative exponentials in integration theory are a Very Good Thing).

i guess its a good thing, thats its perfectly fine to disagree :biggrin:

i would bet, that if we made a list of the top 100 movies we all like, less than 1/2 would be on all our lists..

and only then because we all live in basically the same time in history, and given the saturation of cinema into our lives.

i rate movies like i do books, their re-watchability counts.. i could watch flicks like "the african queen" once a week, but couldn't watch LOTR but once a year.

i watch the original 3 star wars every new years day, and have done so since i have been an adult, i dunno, my viewing is not as single-minded either, i like a good chick flick, along with a hard core action one, comedy ranks high, along with westerns.

drama is about the least favorite, altho movies like "12 angry men" is very high on my list of favorites.

it might be my age.. id doubt it tho, cause my kids like many of the movies i do, as long as there is a colorized version

meh, Non colour films are good sometimes also. Shindlers list is one of my favourite films, Only film ive watched thats ever made me upset.

Hmmm I would have to say that the original Star Wars films are very good, and what about Laurel and Hardy films?

Some of their shorts are very good, but If you havn't seen "Blockheads" then watch it now. Its only like an hour long, and also very funny. On a more cinimatic topical note, I also like ALL the Matrix films, and perhaps actually people shouldn't be so hard to judge the new one. The whole hate thing probably arose after someone said

"Damn this film sucks"

someone else heard it and thought, well I'll agree with him cos its easier than forms my own opinion. Not that I'm trying to antagonise the people who really hate the films, I respect those guys too.

Don't know about anyone else, but I walked into the second Matrix film thinking, "This is going to be great", and walked out thinking, "That was a bit rubbish really, if still quite fun".

altho i agree it happens from time to time matt, its not a common occurrence at SP..

i have had many alternate views here but with few exceptions, i hold none of them as important enuff to jade my view of the people involved.

just because someone i admire hates something i like, it doesn't mean i have to alter that admiration..

i think my thinking is more prevalent, damned few of us confuse the two, mostly the more childish among us actually..

i can hate someone, but agree with them if the conditions warrant it... and so do many of the rest of SP :smile:

I think the second Matrix sucked for many reasons... I'm a relatively opinionated person to begin with, and I formed that one by my little old self. I'm not that much of a conformist.

Monqui said:
I think the second Matrix sucked for many reasons... I'm a relatively opinionated person to begin with, and I formed that one by my little old self. I'm not that much of a conformist.

and your avatar is NOT a good representation of yourself either is it..

points and laughs

your hair is sticking up

sadly, i am not a conformist at all, it has costed me 99% of all my jobs being so.. much to my wifes chagrin

Starts with lord of the rings, ends in tears. Now I've seen everything. :smile:

Actually, honest to christ, my hair is sticking up right now. Just rolled out of bed about 20 min ago, haven't shambled over to the mirror to tame it yet.

Mines longer than that avatars though :razz: (My hair, people... yeesh)

Monqui said:
Actually, honest to christ, my hair is sticking up right now. Just rolled out of bed about 20 min ago, haven't shambled over to the mirror to tame it yet.

Mines longer than that avatars though :razz: (My hair, people... yeesh)

i would hope so, primates tend to sport a massive 2 inch love muscle

why do you think silverbacks are so bitchy :biggrin:

jesus, you guys kill me....!!!

Doc Brass... :dodgy:

• My thoughts on the Matrix.

First of all, I think the series definately veered from a somewhat thought provoking, sci-fi flick, to a big budget action/effects flick. That said, I was pretty satisfied with all 3 movies (maybe I'm easy to please). I didn't go into it, expecting mind shattering, philosophical, metaphysical, revelations; unsurpassed by any movie made by man. I went into this movie, expecting to get a bigger glimpse, and 'vision' of this world; specifically, the world of the machines. With this, I was satisfied.

Yes, the plot twists were just shruggable, and not very bold. I am, however, quite happy that the ending wasn't all peaches. What would have actually impressed me, is if they wouldn't have really resolved it at all. I wish they would have peeled back layer 1 of the matrix, only to reveal, that the real world was only another level of the matrix, and not the real world at all. I would have enjoyed more of a mind-f**k.

---

-return of the king:

My favorite part of the books, was the plight of the 2 hobbits, and their twisted relationship with the ring and Gollum. I felt that the movies really captured Gollum - therefore, I was happy. The rest of the movie was excellent, but them nailing Gollum really made it for me.