STEAM poll

It's this simple: Do you hate STEAM or do you love it? We don't really need to hear about WHY. Just whether you like it or not.

At the moment, I don't really have problems with it, but I'm still against the updating system.

Sure, for people without any computer/internet knowledge, it's good to
have something like an auto-updater, and those people can wait hours
for their update to arrive throught those overloaded steam servers.

But I can download an update by using torrents or other download sites,
really. It's just looking at the update number. I don't want to wait
another 4 hours to play my mod again, just because an update has been
released, and millions of people have to download it from the same
system, ffs.

Good points. I agree with you. But I dislike more stuff than i like so i put that i don't like it.

I like standalone updates as well. Instead of MANDATORY updates.

How about an "it's ok, I will live" option?

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Leperous</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>How about an "it's ok, I will live" option?</DIV></DIV>
Okay, i added it!! :biggrin:

second greatest upgrade for HL behind that one patch that changed the tfc netcode and let me dominate games

I don't neccessarilly like it, but there's nothing to hate about it from my point of view.

Cons:

• Connecting to steam takes long
• Starting up games takes long
• Its dependend on one system, valve's down, everythings down
• Update-ing sucks
• Its bulls**t that you need internet for a singleplayer game
• Friends system never work
• Your steam needs to be activated to use Hammer
• Download manager is a bit unorganized.
• The files are way more unorganized and editing is way harder.
• It dosnt work from time to time, making you reinstall, get a new acc, delte some files mannualy and CTRL+ALT+DELETE and stop it that way. If blizzard made it, it whould be 10 times better.

Pro's:
Auto-update, yay!. Thats all folks!
Oh, and the friends network, but they never work.

Seriously.

I agree with you corona. ONly i don't even like the updates... HAHA I do think it's nice that you can DOWNLOAD a full game.

you're both idiots

How anyone could prefer downloading 100 meg patches off of fileplanet or waiting months for updates to be released is beyond me.

Maybe you're not idiots but are new to HL and never really played it pre-steam, in that case I'd like to point out that:
-steam's server browser is a billion times better than HL's default one
-the autopatching is top notch
-it replaced the useless sierra utilities programs
-the menu/front end changes for HL fixed multiple problems that arose as it aged (resolutions, fonts, pov errors)
-it stabilized HL, which was great for me because as I upgraded computers HL became more and more glitchy and error-prone
-given the number of official HL mods, this made dealing with them easier
-the release of steam meant you could delete things like ricochet and DMC without worrying about not being able to patch HL later (this was a problem pre-steam, where you had to have all the official mods or else patching would fail)
-there never was a friends system, so it not working now makes no difference

but you know, steam sucks, blah blah blah. If it wasn't for steam I would have given up on HL a long time ago

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Corona</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>Cons:

• Connecting to steam takes long
• Starting up games takes long
• Its dependend on one system, valve's down, everythings down
• Update-ing sucks
• Its bulls**t that you need internet for a singleplayer game
• Friends system never work
• Your steam needs to be activated to use Hammer
• Download manager is a bit unorganized.
• The files are way more unorganized and editing is way harder.
• It dosnt work from time to time, making you reinstall, get a new acc, delte some files mannualy and CTRL+ALT+DELETE and stop it that way. If blizzard made it, it whould be 10 times better.

Pro's:
Auto-update, yay!. Thats all folks!
Oh, and the friends network, but they never work.

Seriously.

</DIV></DIV>
Like we've said 10000 times before, YOU DONT HAVE TO BE ON THE INTERNET TO PLAY A SINGLE PLAYER GAME! Yeah fine that if Valve goes down then all internet games goes with it, but a) there are servers all around the world so this is probably impossible, and b) what's different from what happened when WON died?

I like steam, I just think it shouldn't be there to replace other avenues.
I also think steam should get developed a s**t load more and have a developers suite.

http://www.steampowered.com/status/status.html

I have no idea where the grounds for overloaded servers comes
from...they were at most at 2/3 - 3/4 in bandwidth use even on release
night. There are always servers to go around. You just have to trick it
into going to the right ones...the only complaints I have are the iffy
friends servers and the forums not being able to handle the swamp of
morons.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Yak_Fighter</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>you're both idiots

How anyone could prefer downloading 100 meg patches off of fileplanet or waiting months for updates to be released is beyond me.

Maybe you're not idiots but are new to HL and never really played it pre-steam, in that case I'd like to point out that:
-steam's server browser is a billion times better than HL's default one
-the autopatching is top notch
-it replaced the useless sierra utilities programs
-the menu/front end changes for HL fixed multiple problems that arose as it aged (resolutions, fonts, pov errors)
-it stabilized HL, which was great for me because as I upgraded computers HL became more and more glitchy and error-prone
-given the number of official HL mods, this made dealing with them easier
-the release of steam meant you could delete things like ricochet and DMC without worrying about not being able to patch HL later (this was a problem pre-steam, where you had to have all the official mods or else patching would fail)
-there never was a friends system, so it not working now makes no difference

but you know, steam sucks, blah blah blah. If it wasn't for steam I would have given up on HL a long time ago

</DIV></DIV>

How is a 100MB patch frim fileplanet any different from 100MB patch from steam OTHER than the fact that steam installs it for you (a good feature for n00bs (you?))

We're NOT idiots just because we DON't like what you like. And I have been playing Half-life since the release date of the original. I think that was before steam wasn't it?

What's different about the server browsers? let's see, Server name, game name, users in game/capacity and ping. YEP they BOTH have them. hmmmm...

What we didn't LIKE was the autopatching.

I have NEVER even opened the Sierra Utilities program ONCe in the whole 6 years.

How the heck do you KNOW its so stable despite aging? News: IT'S NOT OLD!

I never had any glitches UNTIL steam came about and changed all my settings.

If i wanted to install a mod I can get it off of fileplanet or KaZaA or BitTorrent, I can do it all by myself. Hooray! for anyone who doesnt need a program to install programs for them. But... how did they get THAT program installed? someone must have done it for them... oh well.

If you don't have enough room for Ricochet and DMC, you seriously need to upgrade.

the freinds network doesnt work for some reason.
Perhaps if you had given up on HL, you wouldn't be here today calling me and idiot and pissing me off.

yawn

I'll be back in about an hour to 'piss you off' some more, and I'll explain everything clearly and coherently for you.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Corona</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>Cons:

• Connecting to steam takes long
• Starting up games takes long
• Its dependend on one system, valve's down, everythings down

</DIV></DIV>

If all this is true then you shouldn't be playing any source game, because if it takes that long to start up steam then your system isnt ready for any source game. Have you tried gamespy?
I can live with it, it manages every mod and valve game efficiently (and it allowed me to play HL2 the night it was released :biggrin: ). The friends thing is a joke, its always under matenence and no one is ever on.....with the exception of crono and monkey.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Yak_Fighter</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>yawn

I'll be back in about an hour to 'piss you off' some more, and I'll explain everything clearly and coherently for you.

</DIV></DIV>

Actually if you COULD explain why you think the autoupdating is better. and also the server browser thing. seriously, If you have a good point I'd like to hear it without getting called names.
Leperous: I think that the other guy was saying about having the internet for single player is the actual validation. Some ppl don't even have a net connection so they get mad about the validation.

I think auto updating is pretty nifty, but not exactly fine tuned -
saves messing around with HL1010 HL1108 etc etc (who remembers those!)

For all of steams bad points, one should bare in mind the relative youth of it and the load it has to take all day, every day.

I don't like Steam, but it works - it just needs time to iron itself
out and stabilise, and it is getting there. As mentioned on other
threads as well, hopefully this will pave the way for more innovation
and creativity in the industry as well, now the distributing powers of
the internet are being realised.

I'm not it's biggest fan, but I tolerate it and expect it to improve soon. Just wait it out :smile:

Ok, I'm back. I'm so sorry I hurt your feelings by calling you an idiot over the internet. I didn't know you were that sensitive. I guess I owe you a box of kleenex.

On to the refutation! Original post will be grey text while my comments will be white.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Nickelplate</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>

How is a 100MB patch frim fileplanet any different from 100MB patch from steam OTHER than the fact that steam installs it for you (a good feature for n00bs (you?))

-First off, I am shocked and appalled that you called me a noob. That cut deep man, going right after my one weakness. I am apparently in over my head! Anyways, with steam there won't be any 100MB patches, that's the main difference. Valve can release a bunch of small updates that squash annoying bugs when they appear instead of waiting for three months to get a decent number of serious bugs worth patching. Also, nobody has to dick around with version numbers and all that crap, and nobody has to sit in line for 3 hours on fileplanet to download a gigantic patch that may or may not succeed. If you find all this to be bad than you are an idiot, or at least masochistic. Also, you no longer have to download say all of TFC when you want to get HL up to date, but I'm certain you'd remember those days since you've been around since the beginning.

We're NOT idiots just because we DON't like what you like. And I have been playing Half-life since the release date of the original. I think that was before steam wasn't it?

-No, you're an idiot because you say things like the stuff in the post I was replying to and this post. It helps to have substantial reasons for your positions in an argument. I haven't seen any yet, especially when I'm going to blow up each and every thing you say below because of really obvious things that you should have noticed as a 6 year HL veteran.

What's different about the server browsers? let's see, Server name, game name, users in game/capacity and ping. YEP they BOTH have them. hmmmm...

-Well, steam is faster, for one thing. Steam doesn't require a console command to give you ping times. Steam's filtering system also reliably works, which cannot be said about HL's old one. Plus steam doesn't force you to update the master server list like HL used to, which is very useful when you only wanted to play TFC instead of refreshing all 30,000 CS servers. You can search for servers without entering the game, which saves time if you're only looking to play at a certain server or two.

What we didn't LIKE was the autopatching.

-Why not? Are you so much of a nerd that you have to do everything by yourself? The autopatching makes updating quick, easy, and painless, and since the patches themselves are so small (see above) it really doesn't affect your net connection or your ability to play your games and look at porn.

I have NEVER even opened the Sierra Utilities program ONCe in the whole 6 years.

-Neither have I, which was the point. Steam got rid of that crap that wasted space on my computer, and back in the day supposedly caused other people problems.

How the heck do you KNOW its so stable despite aging? News: IT'S NOT OLD!

-Reading helps. Half-Life is really old. Six years in fact (or is it five? I dunno, its been that f**king long). As it aged and I upgraded computers HL got more and more unstable and was prone to crashing upon loading. For my laptop it had something to do with my desktop resolution being set at 1600x1200 while HL was set at 1024x768, and about 50% of the time it wouldn't reset correctly and I'd have to quit and try again. Pretty annoying when you're trying to compile maps. Steam cleared all this up and I no longer have any problems running HL. In fact, I have never experienced any crashes with HL. So what I said was that steam has made my copy of HL stable after a few years of creakiness. Oh and as an aside, steam is perfectly stable.

I never had any glitches UNTIL steam came about and changed all my settings.

-It changed your settings? HOLY s**t! Change 'em back dumbass. And don't accuse me of misinterpreting what you meant, because you obviously didn't take the time to read what I originally said. I have never encountered any steam problems, but I didn't use it in the very early beta days. All the people I know who use it haven't had any problems either (aside from things like the friends system). I have used steam on three different computers with no problems either. I guess I'm just damn lucky?

If i wanted to install a mod I can get it off of fileplanet or KaZaA or BitTorrent, I can do it all by myself. Hooray! for anyone who doesnt need a program to install programs for them. But... how did they get THAT program installed? someone must have done it for them... oh well.

-Guess what, not everybody can use Kazaa or bittorrent because of firewall settings at their universities. And who wants to f**k with fileplanet? It's called 'ease of use' but then you're going to tell me that it makes everything so much more difficult for some reason. Plus it allows mod teams to get their names out there that much easier.

If you don't have enough room for Ricochet and DMC, you seriously need to upgrade.

-Oh I have the room, I just don't see the need to waste it on stuff I'm never going to touch. You missed the point, which again makes me question if you really have played HL since the beginning. There was a ton of complaining from people who didn't want stuff like DMC and ricochet on their computers but because the patches always checked for them they were forced to keep them. This eliminates that problem. Again, it's ease of use. Plus on my laptop I'm rather crunched for space between my mp3s and porn and I need the space. Besides, ever heard of old computers? The ones that HL can still run on? Yeah, they might not necessarily have 70 gig hard drives that can hold all 5 official HL mods and everything else. Why should those users be screwed out of an updated game?

the freinds network doesnt work for some reason.

-WHO CARES. Did you buy HL2 so you could use the friends network? Cause if you did, I'd suggest returning the game right now.
Perhaps if you had given up on HL, you wouldn't be here today calling me and idiot and pissing me off.

-Perhaps the world would have been spared from my s**tty maps, but it's too bad you weren't here to prevent me from making them. Oh, and I hope you don't burst a blood vessel from reading all of these rage-inducing words.

</DIV></DIV>

*Claps hands

Go get em' yak.

Whatever. I didn't buy HL2 so I could use the friends network. It's just that I didn't buy Half-Life 2 so I could use steam.

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Nickelplate said:
Whatever. I didn't buy HL2 so I could use the friends network. It's just that I didn't buy Half-Life 2 so I could use steam.

I think it's rather you use steam so you can play HL2, not the other way around ...

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Crono</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>I think it's rather you use steam so you can play HL2, not the other way around ... </DIV></DIV>
I see that NOW... I just didn't realize that when I pre-ordered the game.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Nickelplate</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>Whatever. I didn't buy HL2 so I could use the friends network. It's just that I didn't buy Half-Life 2 so I could use steam.

| |__ () | ___| |__
| '_ \| | __/ __| '_ \
| |_) | | || (__| | | |
|_.__/|_|\__\___|_| |_|

??)
,/? /
/ /
??' '/?????
' / / ???\
('( ? ? ?&;/' ')
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</DIV></DIV>
Oh man, I did all that typing and that's the best you can come up with? What a downer. Maybe you should mail your copy of HL2 back to Valve with a terse letter of complaint about something you should have been completely aware of back in like 2002. And while your at it you should work on your insults, cause ASCII ain't gonna cut it.

You really cannot rely on the friends system. If it's up, it's up ...
but most of the time it's down, and as a clan, or a group of friends,
you're never sure about it.

I have a friend, and sometimes we're both on the friends network, but
we're marked to eachother as offline. (although we are both - according
to the Friends network - online !)

Yak, you know it is possible to argue a point, and not act like a
complete and utter arsehole at the same time. Get off your high horse
ffs.

After about 5 minutes of thinking I couldn't come up with a non-asshole response to your statement, so I'll do the next best thing:

:rolleyes:

Can't say i hate it, can't say i like it. "It's bad with the bad, but it's worse without the bad".

I quite like it now especially the autopatching and being able to see the servers while not having the game loaded. The friends thing dont bother me as I usualy talk to people through msn anyway so it makes absolutly no difference to me if it works or not.

I did use it during the betas and it is a whole lot better You think its bad now well times that by 10 and you.

Granted Steams not perfect but what program is?

If blizzard made it, it whould be 10 times better.

I actually find that statement pretty ridiculous. I haven't
exactly known Blizzard to do much in the way of improving their
battle.net system - it's basically a huge chatroom and server housing
setup than anything else. There's not even good instant
messaging, you have to do it all through "/w username message" commands
from within chat.

Basically Blizzard had a good thing with battle.net (ie unified servers
for all their games) and I feel they haven't done enough with it.
Valve's got the right idea, especially offering downloadable content, a
server browser without having to start the game, an instant messaging
and chat setup, skins, even official mods...

GG. I'm downloading the HL2 SDK and its taking an hour. Now I cant play HL2 or DM or CS:S because: "another game launch in in progress".

And the thing with blizzard games is that it takes like 2 minutes to start up without anything troubling you. I could startup World of warcraft and alt+tab when it was loading without any problems, steam on the other hand slows down my system (wich is a 2.8 P4 HT, ati9800pro + 512 DDR ram ).

Also, I wanted to reinstall the SDK. If I whould have downloaded a installer, I whouldnt have to redownload the whole package. Sure my mistake, I shouldave backuped the files but I didnt know it was gonna crash.

Other then that, updating sucks when it comes to lanparty's. If one person has v1.1, and the other has 1.2. They cant copy 1.1-to-1.2.exe and run it and play, and they cant connect to the internet to download the update. So whats left is copying a 5 gig HL2 folder O_o.

Also, on a 1500 man LAN, No-Steam CS was used to play the game. Because CS steam is to much of a problem to run on a LAN, and impossible to install on a LAN. Some people dont always have their games updated, but do feel like playing when the time comes.

Also I have no idea what your problem is Yak, but why do you need to be so offensive from the second post you made on the thread simply because I stated what I dislike about Steam? I dont get it, where's the love!?

You could probably just copy across the GCF files from one person's
v1.2 or whatever onto the other person's computer and replace their
v1.1. Not really any harder than running one of the old patch
executables to be honest.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Corona</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>GG. I'm downloading the HL2 SDK and its taking an hour. Now I cant play HL2 or DM or CS:S because: "another game launch in in progress".

And the thing with blizzard games is that it takes like 2 minutes to start up without anything troubling you. I could startup World of warcraft and alt+tab when it was loading without any problems, steam on the other hand slows down my system (wich is a 2.8 P4 HT, ati9800pro + 512 DDR ram ).

Also I have no idea what your problem is Yak, but why do you need to be so offensive from the second post you made on the thread simply because I stated what I dislike about Steam? I dont get it, where's the love!?

</DIV></DIV>

That is another thing i noticed just last night. Is that while DL-ing the SDK, I can't start any of my other Steam progs.

STEAM slows down ALL systems i have seen it on. Including a Dual XEON with 1GB RAM (although it didnt slow that one down too much). I have a screenshot at home of steam taking up like 75 MB of RAM (will post later today). And this was not during any special time, Computer was idle with MSN messenger running, and that was it.
And finally, Where's the love, indeed? There's no need to be like that.

This is steam owning my resources

http://www.crapbucket.brad.com/steamhogs.jpg

Jesus, did you try exiting steam then returning? It seems it has an issue with deallocating ram after running a game. It should stay at about 10,000 K when not in active use.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Corona</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>Also I have no idea what your problem is Yak, but why do you need to be so offensive from the second post you made on the thread simply because I stated what I dislike about Steam? I dont get it, where's the love!?</DIV></DIV>
I don't see where I was being offensive? Besides, I sometimes lurk those retarded halflife2.net forums and that place pisses me off so much, as they are full of people who make awful arguments. Also, I wasn't really responding to you, more towards Nickelplate's retarded whining.

I tried a lot of things and this picture was taken after having not played any games yet. I even restarted my whole computer. It starts out at about 15,000, then climbs up to that big number in the pic. Right now steam is at 53,288 and it's not doing ANYTHING...

Yak- look at the link in my post above and tell me that there is no reason to complain about steam eating my resources. I think you've just got sand in your vagina and you get angry and lash out irrationally. Please, just stop being such a bitch.

You have no reason to complain about Steam. I guess you could complain about your computer?



Besides, you're the one who was asking in another thread if you had to buy two copies of HL2 to play using the same steam account on two different computers, which just speaks for itself about your experience and knowledge of steam.

Yak, you were being a sarcastic arsehole. There was no reason for it.
It was something I'd expect from a fanboy, but not you. His lack of
knowledge on the workings of Steam didn't warrant it. To call him a
dumbass and an idiot, and then claim that you weren't being offensive,
is just bulls**t.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Yak_Fighter</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>You have no reason to complain about Steam. I guess you could complain about your computer?

Besides, you're the one who was asking in another thread if you had to buy two copies of HL2 to play using the same steam account on two different computers, which just speaks for itself about your experience and knowledge of steam.

</DIV></DIV>
Maybe Win2k handles STEAM better than XP for some reason? And i bet LOTS of folks didn't know that you could play on 2 computers with the same Cd-key. I mean, REALLY, when was the last time a company just LET people install one copy of software on more than ONE computer. It just isn't done! So, i figured it was the same in this instance as well.

I dunno, I'm using XP. Besides, one of the big selling points of Steam was that you could log on to your account from any computer that has it installed. I don't know how really useful that is, because it's not like you're going to use Steam at the library or something...

Kage, where have you been? I'm almost always either sarcastic or not being serious, and the idea that somebody should be granted the ability to make arguments without having any knowledge about it and to continue to make those arguments with impuny is rather dumb. It would be even worse to accept that the only arguments people can make in their defense are insults and throwing around terms like 'fanboy' when you disagree. I'm going to avoid making the obvious slam here, but insults with comments backing them up are fine in my book :biggrin:

There are plenty of valid reasons to dislike Steam, such as the arguments against it in a LAN setting made above or that its annoying to have a background program running when running a hardware intensive game, just FYI.

So the lessons here are:
Nickelplate, call me a bitch with a weeping vagina but have some actual points to argue behind the insults.
Kage, this isn't halflife2.net.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Yak_Fighter</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>I dunno, I'm using XP. Besides, one of the big selling points of Steam was that you could log on to your account from any computer that has it installed. I don't know how really useful that is, because it's not like you're going to use Steam at the library or something...

Kage, where have you been? I'm almost always either sarcastic or not being serious, and the idea that somebody should be granted the ability to make arguments without having any knowledge about it and to continue to make those arguments with impuny is rather dumb. It would be even worse to accept that the only arguments people can make in their defense are insults and throwing around terms like 'fanboy' when you disagree. I'm going to avoid making the obvious slam here, but insults with comments backing them up are fine in my book :biggrin:

There are plenty of valid reasons to dislike Steam, such as the arguments against it in a LAN setting made above or that its annoying to have a background program running when running a hardware intensive game, just FYI.

So the lessons here are:
Nickelplate, call me a bitch with a weeping vagina but have some actual points to argue behind the insults.
Kage, this isn't halflife2.net.

</DIV></DIV>
LOL! I've always said you were funny, even when we disagree.

Well, I doubt there'll be many more serious disagreements, I'm not that big of an asshole.

Now I just gotta pick a fight with Kage and my job in this thread is done.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Yak_Fighter</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>Well, I doubt there'll be many more serious disagreements, I'm not that big of an asshole.

Now I just gotta pick a fight with Kage and my job in this thread is done.

</DIV></DIV>

I also doubt that there will be any more serious disagreements. Also, I hope there are no more. You seem like a cool guy when you're not talkin' trash.
I'll tell you who really likes to pick fights is VASH... :rolleyes:

oh no, don't get Vash started! :razz:

Love steam and everything about it.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Yak_Fighter</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>I dunno, I'm using XP. Besides, one of the big selling points of Steam was that you could log on to your account from any computer that has it installed. I don't know how really useful that is, because it's not like you're going to use Steam at the library or something...</DIV></DIV>
Though, er, you used to be able to play HL etc. from any computer that had before, so what's new?

If you did that before, you would be on somebody else's CD key. So if you got banned all over the place, it would be the person who's PC you were using that got banned. The result of this is that people won't let you use their key, and cyberCafes can quickly get all their machines banned from a bunch of servers.

Both of those problems are now gone.

I think Penny-Arcade summed it up perfectly:

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quote:</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>Apparently people who bought it at retail had some trouble getting their copies running right, it was fixed shortly thereafter. I'm given to understand that people who ride horses to work or in other ways live their lives discordant with science and reason also suffer because of their strict adherence to anachronism. Get with the f**king program. Stop mixing those specious folk remedies and download your games directly from the Intertron.</DIV></DIV>

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Nickelplate</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>

I'll tell you who really likes to pick fights is VASH... :rolleyes:

</DIV></DIV>
vash doesn't "pick" them, but he relishes it when people leave themselves open to it. if vash crosses any lines, you won't have to wonder, it will be clear as day i promise.