This video is shocking!! - Sorry if you have seen this already

Old vid - I knew that the Hitboxes were bad in CS:S but not this bad. People with bad aim are more likely to get a high score. Again sorry, most people will have seen this already.

http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=css_hit_b0x_bb

I had not seen this, but I do not doubt it one second. My son and I frag constantly. I am not making excuses, but I know I am a better fragger than my score says. I have literally nailed him with a double shotgun blast only to see his score still at 100. :sad:

I was beginning to honestly believe that I would never get back into my swing.

Is there any plans to correct this issue?

Yeah....had no idea about this....but same as Orph, I have found my shotgun to be completely useless about 90% of the time. Avoid shotguns like the plague. And that hitbox thing...doesn't surprise me one bit. Although I wonder if it is a bot thing.

I don't think it is a bot thing, why make bots difficult to hit? or change the hitboxes for models used by bots? Hey you never know?

I don't think they will fix this. This is completely deliberately, to allow noobs with no aim to have a good chancing of owning. Or it could just be a problem with client and servers. Still, things are not right otherwise people wouldnt be ranting about it.

ben_j_davis said:
I don't think they will fix this. This is completely deliberately, to allow noobs with no aim to have a good chancing of owning.

But it completely removes the concept of accuracy. How can a n00b own if the killing zone moves erratically? Its not even consistently in front or behind, its all over the globe. :sad:

/me reckons I will have to practice till I figure out the pattern.
Ignorant fuk's, ruined my play, and me with so little time to spare doing it.

Found this

http://www.pro-hl.com/column_bomberman_1.shtml

Is there anyway to show the hitboxes on more than one model at a time? For example showing the hitboxes on all bots in a game.

So this hitbox inconsistency applies to HL2DM and all of HL2's MODs?

For people who prefer downloading the movie:

http://x200.putfile.com/videos/c5-12520334712.wmv

Especially the part with the scout on Dust2 is shocking.

I've always thought something was wrong ... a lot of blood-splashes just hang in the air, vertically.

I don't think they will fix this. This is completely d[color=white]eliberately, to allow noobs with no aim to have a good chancing of owning.

I think its a bug in the source networking where the client prediction
is way off. We already know that the client prediction is
terrible (ie shaking on ladders and other moving objects). So
yes, they probably won't fix it, but its because they suck, not because
they don't want to.

[/color]

There is a big rant going on the Steam forum about this problem.

Heres a link.

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=285412

I posted a few messages. Check out around pages 7 onwards, thats when the hitboxes arguement starts.

I don't think they will fix this. This is completely deliberately, to allow noobs with no aim to have a good chancing of owning.

[color=white] I think its a bug in the source networking where the client prediction
is way off. We already know that the client prediction is
terrible (ie shaking on ladders and other moving objects). So
yes, they probably won't fix it, but its because they suck, not because
they don't want to.

[/color]

ouch, not a nice thing to say on a valve friendly website.

I think they will work on fixing this. Valve/Steam has its
problems but Valve comes through, if they didn't care do you really
think you would be getting updates every 2 weeks on your games and
would they have kept CS 1.0 updated for 5 years?

Ah yes, the weekly updates. I think that, rather than shoving so
many (almost) insignificant updates up our rears they should be
working their asses off fixing this critical problem!

I always had my suspiciouns that this was going on. I knew that it was complete bulls**t when I was unloading fifty AK bullets into someones chest and they were walking away without a scratch.

Ah yes, the weekly updates. I think that, rather than shoving so
many (almost) insignificant updates up our rears they should be
working their asses off fixing this critical problem!

I think they fix what they can when they can.

I dont know why so many people think Valve is some kind of evil company
that sits around all day "muhahahha lets not fix the hit boxes so those
noob miss the person they shoot at, hahaha suckers"

I'm not a programer and I dont know much about network activity, etc.
but I'm sure valve has a good excuse for not fixing these problems
right away.

The video might be a bit over-done. They set the interp to 0.3, which is considered (at least, in TFC) as hacking.

I dont know why so many people think Valve is some kind of evil company
that sits around all day "muhahahha lets not fix the hit boxes so those
noob miss the person they shoot at, hahaha suckers"

I'm not saying Valve sit around all day drinking beer. All i'm saying is they should choose their priorities more carefully.

I dont know why so many people think Valve is some kind of evil company
that sits around all day "muhahahha lets not fix the hit boxes so those
noob miss the person they shoot at, hahaha suckers"

I'm not saying Valve sit around all day drinking beer. All i'm saying is they should choose their priorities more carefully.

Well after reading the artical posted above I'd guess that this is
something that is quite hard to fix. If they are only working on
small updates, then I agree with you, but I'm willing to bet that Valve
is working on the big problem but at the same time not neglecting the
small problems.

People always say the same thing to me on forums when i'm moaning about Valve. "Yeah but how many updates do they do? Practically 1 every 2 weeks, no other games company does that."

And my response is always the same. Valve make Halflife and that's it. If you were relying on pratically only one game to bring in all the money, its pretty obvious you would make sure it was updated as often as possible.

It will be exactly the same for 3D Realms when/if they bring out Duke Nukem Forever. If they lose that franchise they are fcuked.

This hole hitbox thing is pissing me off. If CS had no problems with them, why does CS:S have the problem? The same guy on the Steam forum kept on going on about the same thing. The tickrates are lower on the CS:S than in CS.

When i said just increase the tickrate, he said it would cost to much to run high tickrate servers. WTF?? but the old CS servers could??

People always say the same thing to me on forums when i'm
moaning about Valve. "Yeah but how many updates do they do? Practically
1 every 2 weeks, no other games company does that."

Blizzard makes and update every week on World Of Warcraft, so it is possible to provide more customer support.

People always say the same thing to me on forums when i'm
moaning about Valve. "Yeah but how many updates do they do? Practically
1 every 2 weeks, no other games company does that."

Blizzard makes and update every week on World Of Warcraft, so it is possible to provide more customer support.

They also have get about $14,000,000+ a month in gross income from players.

Valve does what it does for almost nothing after the $50 retail
price. Half life isn't the only game, CS is its own game, as is
DoD. Not to mention Steam and HL2. I'm not trying to be a
fan boy for them, I get just as pissed when I get goinked in CS or when
steam friends doesn't work. But attacking Valve isn't going to
fix any of that.

I recall a video a few months ago that showed AI bugs in HL2 and hit
box errors. In the end they tryed to burn Valve with it. It
is so easy for us to bitch about things like this when we have no idea
what kind of work it takes to keep over a million people all around the
world running on millions of diffrent computer set ups, playing the
same game.

I payed $50 six years ago for CS, and I still play it almost every
day. Valve makes good products and they will fix this problem, so
what if they cant just snap their fingers and solve it? Maybe if
we all payed 15 bucks a month they would put a few more people on the
job, or maybe we can deal with it and enjoy the soon to be three+ games
we got from valve for the price of one.

Come on. If this actually screwed up the gameplay, we would already have known.

They set the interp to 0.3

the tfc interp bug was a different thing I believe. No matter how
long my client interpolates for it should draw the viemodel where I
need to shoot, because the engine should lag compensate for the
increased lag from interpolating longer. But it doesn't do this
at all, I think it only lag compensates from ping.

Plus if I set cl_interp 0, there should be no difference between that
and with cl_interpolate 0, since the time for the interpolation
is 0, so it should just put the same thing on the screen. But
even with interp 0, the viewmodel lags behind the hitboxes. Maybe
this is because it will still interpolate for the time of the last
frame, but at 70 fps the distance between truth and interpolated should
be alot smaller than it is. With cl_interpolation 0, the viemodel
is in the exact right spot, but then your view is very jerky so thats
not really a solution.

Valve makes good products and they will fix this problem

They haven't fixed steam yet, and its been over a year. Either
they aren't working on that or are making no headway. (im
thinking of the 2 things I experience worst in steam - friends doesn't
work nearly ever, and it never selects the right content server) If
they haven't been working on that, or are making no progress, what
makes you think they will fix this, seemingly much much more difficult
bug.

Well in the past, when there has been a problem they have fixed it.

Cheating was one of the biggest things, if you want to know about
things that f**K up game play... try CS 1.2 before anti-cheat.

I cant imagin that they have these known bugs just sitting around not
getting any work done on them, sure they could fix this stuff faster
but then everyone would be "wtf? when will DoD source come out!"

so, maybe I dont know that they will fix the problem, but it makes more
sence to me that they will fix it in due time rather than just forget
about it and let the bug reports pile up.

I have noticed this problem too. My guess is that because of the physics etc. they have allot for trouble making the hitbox move smoothly through the world without using up a prohibitive amount of bandwidth. Thus, rather than have jerky character motions in online play, the quick fix was to partially decouple the model from the hitbox to make it look as though the gameplay is smooth. Kind of clever really, but not a great solution in the long term.

Note that this is an entirely unsupported hypothesis. I'm probably wrong.

World of Warcraft is truly formidable. From the first, Blizzard sought to produce a game that avoided outright the downfalls of others in its genre, fit in and expanded upon the world they'd hewn over the course of five games and some four novels, and could measure up aesthetically to the newest releases using an engine far less powerful.

I'd say they succeeded.

The game boasts no bump maps, shaders, or real-time shadows - but it looks great. Every texture you see was drawn by hand - which, believe me, is no mean feat, especially considering how well they turned out. The zones, nigh thirty in number, are expansive and diverse, and feature major landmarks from all five games (granted, some more accurately than others. I'm looking in your direction, Dalaran) - not to mention the transitions between them are visually seamless. Immersive quests are offered to players of all levels, and rarely does gaining experience become a chore to be ground through. The player classes are fairly balanced; each is fairly original, insofar as MMORPG classes can be, and offers a distinct experience from the others. There are some forty servers, I believe, with new ones being introduced periodically; Blizzard performs maintenence on them weekly, and they generally remain stable, despite it that their subsciptions number over a million.

And then, on occasion, servers crash, quests and enemies behave strangely, etc. - and guess what people say?

"Blizzard sucks." "Blizzard pays no attention to their fans." "Blizzard never fixes anything." "Blizzard doesn't put in enough work." "Blizzard is getting enough money that they should be able to produce a completely flawless and infinitely stable game." "Blizzard is a s**tty company."

And I respond: shut the f**k up. Just shut the f**k up. Seriously, a good game comes along which is entertaining, which is far more stable than others in its genre, into which its maker has poured an undeniable amount of sweat and blood, and which you regularly enjoy - and the very moment it f**ks up even slightly, perhaps clearing away a few hours of effort tops, you've got to let the whole world know that its creators are a gang of incompetant hacks.

And I say the same to those of you who complain about Valve: shut the f**k up. Here's a game with an engine that's solid and rife with potential (good God, just look what we did to HL1), extremely accessible developer's tools, and an impressively organized (though often buggy) online distribution and patch system, whose developers, too, constantly work to create new content - see DoD Source and the soon-to-be-released additional HL2 level - even though they aren't paid a dime past what they received when you purchased their product and, I assume, have enjoyed far less commerical success than Blizzard.

Are Steam and Valve's lineup perfect products? - by no means. Are they, in fact, flawed? - in some respects, very much so. Should you go off and run your f**king mouth about every inconvenience you happen upon? - no. In my humble opinion, it's a pretty damn good game, and Valve is doing a better job of keeping it up to date than most games' developers do.

Oh, and about this hitbox s**t - I've never had a problem fragging. I believe someone on the Plan of Attack forums explained this as being latency compensation, though whatever the case may be, I will guarantee you that you'll all be ready to pounce on Valve as though it'd been trying to f**k up your game all along.

Now please, tell me about how I'm a bulls**tter blindly fawning over my favorite game development company.

World of Warcraft is truly formidable. From the first, Blizzard sought to produce a game that avoided outright the downfalls of others in its genre, fit in and expanded upon the world they'd hewn over the course of five games and some four novels, and could measure up aesthetically to the newest releases using an engine far less powerful.
I'd say they succeeded.
The game boasts no bump maps, shaders, or real-time shadows - but it looks great. Every texture you see was drawn by hand - which, believe me, is no mean feat, especially considering how well they turned out. The zones, nigh thirty in number, are expansive and diverse, and feature major landmarks from all five games (granted, some more accurately than others. I'm looking in your direction, Dalaran) - not to mention the transitions between them are visually seamless. Immersive quests are offered to players of all levels, and rarely does gaining experience become a chore to be ground through. The player classes are fairly balanced; each is fairly original, insofar as MMORPG classes can be, and offers a distinct experience from the others. There are some forty servers, I believe, with new ones being introduced periodically; Blizzard performs maintenence on them weekly, and they generally remain stable, despite it that their subsciptions number over a million.
And then, on occasion, servers crash, quests and enemies behave strangely, etc. - and guess what people say?
"Blizzard sucks." "Blizzard pays no attention to their fans." "Blizzard never fixes anything." "Blizzard doesn't put in enough work." "Blizzard is getting enough money that they should be able to produce a completely flawless and infinitely stable game." "Blizzard is a s**tty company."
And I respond: shut the f**k up. Just shut the f**k up. Seriously, a good game comes along which is entertaining, which is far more stable than others in its genre, into which its maker has poured an undeniable amount of sweat and blood, and which you regularly enjoy - and the very moment it f**ks up even slightly, perhaps clearing away a few hours of effort tops, you've got to let the whole world know that its creators are a gang of incompetant hacks.
And I say the same to those of you who complain about Valve: shut the f**k up. Here's a game with an engine that's solid and rife with potential (good God, just look what we did to HL1), extremely accessible developer's tools, and an impressively organized (though often buggy) online distribution and patch system, whose developers, too, constantly work to create new content - see DoD Source and the soon-to-be-released additional HL2 level - even though they aren't paid a dime past what they received when you purchased their product and, I assume, have enjoyed far less commerical success than Blizzard.
Are Steam and Valve's lineup perfect products? - by no means. Are they, in fact, flawed? - in some respects, very much so. Should you go off and run your f**king mouth about every inconvenience you happen upon? - no. In my humble opinion, it's a pretty damn good game, and Valve is doing a better job of keeping it up to date than most games' developers do.
Oh, and about this hitbox s**t - I've never had a problem fragging. I believe someone on the Plan of Attack forums explained this as being latency compensation, though whatever the case may be, I will guarantee you that you'll all be ready to pounce on Valve as though it'd been trying to f**k up your game all along.
Now please, tell me about how I'm a bulls**tter blindly fawning over my favorite game development company.

Well said.
However, I wish more people held this type of logical sense towards more things.

indeed. Alot of people think that everything that they dont like
is some how the creators fault. I remeber when they took out the
bunny hop or lowered the power of the AWP in CS. People take
things like that personaly.

I feel sorry for developers like Valve, they cant win. People
want all kinds of things and for the most part you always will have to
let one group down.

anyways that is getting off topic.

"Ahem"

I, personally am the last person to "blame" games. I notice, I study, I continue to study, THEN I bitch.

I have noticed this bug from day numero uno. I also fail to see any correlation between this games defects, and another games lack of them. I am sorry Cass, but your whole pretense of defense sounds exactly like one of Crono's "The worlds gonna end if I cannot explain every last nuance" type of bulls**t tangents. (notice: this is the blue of sarcasm, not humor)

There is a tiny bit of truth however. People bitch. People always wanna blame their problems on someone. In this case its Valve.

Personally, this whole "Steam Sucks" thing?? I don't get it. I have had ZERO problems with steam. Its no more buggy than the old "GameSpy" program used to be as far as server locating is concerned. As far as Steam updating my game? I have DSL, I can see where 56k users may have a complaint but NO ONE ELSE!!!

My HL game runs smoothly. If yours does not its more than likely YOUR FAULT guys. STOP BLAMING VALVE!!! Fix your piece of s**t PC and get over this blaming stuff.

Now, for my part, I would really like to see this BUG fixed. I have turned it on during a LAN game with my son, and the theory that its to compensate for latency is bulls**t. THERE IS NONE of note during a LAN game and its still there.

Any Who's, I just had to clear that up. I think you were way off base Cass, and Crono worse for backing you up.

Yup, I fully expect at least one of you to bitch at me for saying that, but.. I expect it no more than you must have while each of you were typing so.. shrugs

[EDIT] f**king figures. I waste my 8000th post on a bitch session. Mile marks of the 8000 variety should not be wasted on ranting.

Right, we want people to become more ignorant. :rolleyes:

Don't get me wrong, i am not criticising Valve. I work for a games company, i know about all the BS that goes on. Endless amounts of legal BS.

For a user the solution is simple, but for most games companies its months of discussion.

Crono said:
Right, we want people to become more ignorant. :rolleyes:

Don't get me wrong. I feel you had a point but also feel you could have found a better way to express it.

sighs

I dunno exactly what I mean except that using another game to defend this one just sounded wrong. I said almost the same thing but concentrated my explanation on the people bitching instead of valve. I honestly feel that if these people have a complaint about steam, its their own creation. Think on it a bit. How many people make maps and have unexplained problems, and after weeks/days of problem solving, it boils down to their machine either having a bug, or the person was just so dumb that issues like that are inevitable?

I think that anyone who has genuine issues with steam should examine their machines first then look elsewhere.

Course, I could be at least as wrong as you two from another's perspective.

Bottom line. My respect for both of you is genuine. I think I deserve the right to disagree with each of you on occasion, especially when neither of you hesitate to return the favor.... 10 fold. :wink:

I have no problem with someone disagreeing with me or anyone else. Just if that disagreement is conducted improperly.

You basically said both of us are wrong ... for our opinions and that this level of "wrong" was in fact "bad", hence: 'worse'.

Cass's post was simply a comparison between the two games to bring a better understanding, taking that they follow the same trend of bashing and online maintenance.

Omega brought up WoW and how it releases patches every week.

Crono said:
I have no problem with someone disagreeing with me or anyone else. Just if that disagreement is conducted improperly.

You basically said both of us are wrong ... for our opinions and that this level of "wrong" was in fact "bad", hence: 'worse'.

Cass's post was simply a comparison between the two games to bring a better understanding, taking that they follow the same trend of bashing and online maintenance.

You have a very unique way of defining words and phrases i grant you that. i would prefer the term. "improper" or "ill conceived" not wrong,bad or worse. sometimes you fail to see that you are taking the scenic route to express your desires, when the direct path would suffice.

in any event, you seem to be no more, or less correct than i so i bow out. Just chalk it up as your superior intellect and my own lack of same.

The World of Warcraft example wasn't about the number or severity of errors in a game, but the attitude towards them in the game's fanbase - which is more than analogous, if not identical, to that of HL2.

I still don't see where I'm wrong. Occasionally troublesome faults in a fairly above average game, whether they go fixed or unfixed, are not cause enough to cast judgment on the developers as if they'd done everything wrong.

Does a bad scene in a movie make the whole piece garbage? No. Does it make the director a hack? No. Granted, Valve's content isn't quite so cutting edge as it was to the gaming world in 1996, they invariably miss deadlines, and they take a long time to fix bugs, but I'd say their products boast qualities that more than redeem their screwups.

I would not like to be the one to keep tally on how many times someone said I was wrong Cass. In this case, I could very well be talking out my ass again, so unless its really important to you to prove me incorrect I do not think its worth our butting heads on it.

I know you had a good point, I just felt you could have expressed it without using another game is all. I am on your side on the point of people crying needlessly and blaming Valve. I could be the exception, but I personally have no real issues worthy of mentioning. Yeah, I think it stinks that I cannot HIT what I aim at some of the time, but its not a major issue.

anyways, I was sleepy and crabby. Ignore me.

Crono said:
Right, we want people to become more ignorant. :rolleyes:

You mean like you are being right here?

Blah blah blah blah blah......Anyone care for some food and porn?

Dark Tree said:
Blah blah blah blah blah......Anyone care for some food and porn?

PORN AND CHICKEN PLEASE!

( Oh and cass, I quit WOW, not because it sucked, or blizzard sucks or anything of that nature.. The game just didnt entertain me after 3 weeks. Did I go on the forums and bitch, nope.. am I bitching nope. Besides I made level 60 in 3 weeks how hard can the game be? )

Good for you.

they invariably miss deadlines

Well executed. Pretty much all industry is fraught by being late and over budget. Its sad really, but it is expected I guess.

they invariably miss deadlines

Well executed. Pretty much all industry is fraught by being late and over budget. Its sad really, but it is expected I guess.

well I think it comes down to, do you want a buggy game on time, or a perfect(ish) game later?

they invariably miss deadlines

Well executed. Pretty much all industry is fraught by being late and over budget. Its sad really, but it is expected I guess.

well I think it comes down to, do you want a buggy game on time, or a perfect(ish) game later?

Or are the publishers pressing for something thats incomplete?