cs_knifeedge

cs_Knifeedge is almost ready to release. Please see it here, or at the web site, at www.screamingneurons.com/ignorance/knifeedge.asp .

the textures in the 3rd image seem rather repetative, something needs
doing to make it all the more interesting. wether it be adding ivy
growing up (thus leading to some plant life growing around this town)
or a change in some of the brick textures.

I'd suggest perhaps making that well (I think it's a well?) circular or somesuch, it breaks up the basic square geometry.

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My Pit

Korn..

The textures look fine in-game, but your recommendation on making the well circular is perfect. I"ll do that. Thanks for the advice.

-LN

the link takes me to a speech about dragons, not a map.

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i eat paint

I just love the attention you paid in establishing the background story for the map. It's not just a mindless setting that makes no logical sense at all. The description of the details really helps the map to come alive. I can tell that you've spent a lot of time planning and thinking about the theme. Kudos to you.

That said, the map looks a bit bright. I think you can make the lighting a bit more interesting. Just play around with light_environment and the color and angle of the light to see what effects you get. The architecture and the landscape is already there to make the map look stunning.

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"The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return." -- Toulouse-Lautre, Moulin Rouge

Fish...

Fixed the link.

Thanks

<div class="abouttext">Message submitted 4 minutes after original post:</b></div>

satchmo said:
I just love the attention .... Kudos to you.

Thank you very much. From you that's high praise.

satchmo said:
That said, the map looks a bit bright

I have tried everything I can think of. I am trying to get that "just at dawn on a cold morning at the beginning of spring", feeling and I can't get both the atmosphere thick enough and the shadows quite right. Perhaps you're right and I just need to reduce the light a bit.

Thanks for the feedback.
-LN

the sheep and the 1st screenshot indicate this place is very very rural.

Nion every rural town has its wear & tear, theyve often been around
for years. yet the buildings all look to be in good nick.

Perhaps a bit of damage/neglect wouldnt go amiss.

The second image, suggests this is very high land (which explains the
sheep) and as satch mentioned before it is too bright & too warm
for such a place. evidence of snowy peaks in the background make me
wonder if there should be snow around the village also.

Edit: Noticed there is some snow, but no evidence of it "landing" you
need some hanging off the rooftops etc. think of where it may fall
& build up.

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My Pit

Korn....

Great feedback, thank you.

1) I have made snow models to be used as details, so that there is a bit more snow around, but they're a drain on the engine and I pulled them. I'll see if I can add some more.

2) I have lowered the light as Satch recommended, and it looks much better. If I can get the sky right now, I'll be thrilled.

3) The damage is a good idea. I"ll collapse a few parts of buidings.

Now, if you see the reference photo, the truth is, that this looks about right. I have others, and really, the villages aren't unmaintained. Individual family farms are unmaintained in rural areas. But generally, villages, which have a different economic model, are sloppy, but not necessarily unmaintained.

-Cheers.

hmm, fair 'uff. What I was trying to get at was, perhaps snowy roof
textures & some sort of masked texture (not sure what theyre called
now tbh, havent mapped since hl1) that looks like snow/ice hanging down
the side of the roofing.

+ SURELY in hl2 weather effects can be added? its supposed to be a
modern engine, a trickle of snow drops around would do it absolute
wonders. (someone must have done this)

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My Pit

KoRnFlakes said:
...snowy roof textures & some sort of masked texture

...a trickle of snow drops around would do it absolute wonders.

I tried using snow overlays but they "flicker", and ruin the effect. Now that the light is lower, maybe I can try again.

The weather effects are wonderful, but they're also VERY expensive to render. CSS needs FPS, more than single player does, so while I would love to add mist, it's just too expensive.

Thank you so much for your ideas, you've been very helpful.

-LN

Were the overlays flickering against the base surface, or flickering
between each other? If the latter, then make sure your overlays that
touch each other are assigned to different layers in their properties.

Map is looking good, though the displacement "mountains" seem a bit
odd. I think they look a bit too sharp and extreme given that they are
quite small scale and near to the playing field. Are they actually part
of a 3D skybox, or just part of the main area? If the latter, you
should look into using a 3D skybox and consider increasing the scale to
make them more epically mountainous.

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[img]http://card.mygamercard.net/sig/Default/reno84.png[/img]
Designer @ Haiku Interactive | ReNo-vation.net

Looks like a good theme and I like the screenshots so far, but somewhat
it still has some sort of HL feeling. I guess some more detail could
give it that extra touch. For example, the roofs of those houses are
just a simple brush, while some modelling could give it a much more
natural look. Those buildings feel too square too, perhaps using
displacements on their walls would be a good idea, or at least
something to make it all feel more natural.

But apart from that all, it looks like it's going to be good. Keep it up! :smile:

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Create-ivity - a game development blog

My CoD2 didnt arrive this morning =/

Anyway, some more things to comment on (some I couldnt possibly be aware of as there is no download)

Does this map have sound? it just sprung to mind it needed a cold wind
blustering past now and again, giving it an empty & suspenseful
atmosphere, not only that but typically of cs, people listen out for
footsteps & there are VERY few maps that use sound to mask them
& make you rely on other things.

Do the sheep animate/make sound?

What is that helicopter doing there on your site images? I am working
on the presumption the ct are trying to infiltrate this town which has
been taken by the t's. They would certainly restrict themselves to
mountaineering rather than a noisy helicopter.

Tunnels into caves afaik are prodominantly arched, for extra support. not to mention it would look nicer imo.

the neglection shown in
-this-
image (borded up window) is a nice touch.

What do these people do for a living? livestock or something related I
presume, I cant think of anything (props) directly involved that you
could add but for example
-this-
image, I dont know why, but I just see a wooden cart in it. it seems
plain & everyone can see down the pathways without obstruction/cover

on the other hand
-this-
image show's people do live here (ladder) which is pretty much what i'm
getting at.

Anyway, chew over some of that for a bit. if there is a download
available anywhere gimme a shout & il post a small ritique up.
(today if possible, my cod2 will arrive tommorow & I shant be seen
for a bit heh.)

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My Pit

ReNo said:
against the base surface,

They flickered against the base. I have had this problem a number of times.

ReNo said:
Map is looking good, though the displacement "mountains" seem a bit odd. I think they look a bit too sharp and extreme.

In oder to get what I"m looking for, I have to choose between displacments level 2 and level 3. At 3 its a lot more polys and it looks a lot better. At 2 it's a lot less polys and it doesn't look as good. It helps to remember that except for the buildings this entire map is displacements.

It doesn't look quite the same in game, because the mountain range is a series of steps, with the plain being the bottom, the village being the next, the mountains you see in the screenshots the next step, and then there is a really large set of mountains behind them, that are in the skybox. The fog effect obscures them, and the screenshots don't show them at all, but they're up there.

That said, I could fix this by splitting the mountain displacments along the north south axis, effectivley doubling the polys on those twenty displacments, and texturing them separately, and using the additional polys to smooth out the mountains. I thought I could get away with what I've got here, so I didn't do that. Fixing it, because the back side of the mountains is in the skybox, would be painful and annoyingly tedious. But if it's that big a deal I might do it. Let me think about it a bit.

Thank you very much for the feedback.

-LN

Why not using displacements with power of 4? You could get along with lot lesser planes :razz:

And what bothers me is the optimization. How long does the VIS take? :razz:

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HL2 tutorials 'n' stuff: http://madedog.pri.ee
217.159.236.34:27050 - CSS Server - Clean | koffer.ee

KoRnFlakes said:
Does this map have sound?

Yes, there are quite a few sounds, and I"m thankful that you can make your own soundscapes now. Which I did.

KoRnFlakes said:
Do the sheep animate/make sound?

I am trying to find a sheep sound file. I have also planned an easter egg for the sheep, that I wn't disclose here. They are not animated as that's just way too expensive for CSS.

KoRnFlakes said:
What is that helicopter doing there on your site images?

The CT's start by the helicopters and they're being dropped off. All CSS players will understand this.

KoRnFlakes said:
What do these people do for a living?

They grow poppies, they raise sheep, they have an orchard and they had a mine, and they get support for terrorism from a neighboring country <g>.

But all that aside, I could place more props and make the map better. I think I would favor natural effects instead of man made objects, but you're right that it needs more 'stuff'.

I have to completely disagree about the helicopter thing tbh, ever
since the formation of the sas and such, most tactical squads would
take a more quiet & energetic ruote up the mountainside.

Anyway, gl with the map, update the screenshots when possible. My CoD2 arrived this morning :biggrin:

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My Pit

To compile the entire map with full viz and rad is something like an hour.

There are only like 140 vis areas.

Wow damn this map has a lot of potential. If you just put in the effort making all the little tweaks, improving peices bit by bit, optimizing performance, and doing a lot of playtesting I could see this becoming one of the great custom CS maps.

I like how the terrain is pretty minimalist, except for the mountains - it looks good and it draws you to the fight areas and the buildings. A lot of maps go overboard with crazy terrain features everywhere that is completely unrealistic.

Thing is, its not quite there yet.
-Tweak the texturing of the mountains. Maybe a bit more rocky, and the snow should have a bit more texture to it. Increase their power to add more details to them.

-It looks like you have used only a few gigantic horizontal displacements for the whole map. Instead, break it down into many displacements that mesh with each other. Bump up the power where you need it (where there are large variations in height), and keep the power low where its mostly flat. Don't be afraid to have displacements that cut into each other or displacements whose plane at an angle - there is no performance hit for it.

-The lighting looks a bit... bright? There are barely any shadows. Maybe this is the effect you are going for, but I would consider trying angling the sun a bit more and turning down the ambient light a bit. Nothing extreme, but maybe give it a try.

-The whiteish texture (is it snow? I cant quite tell) is not that good. Definitely improve that texture.

-Make sure that there is enough cover. A lot of the spaces are really really open.

-Work on the inside areas. Its better to have a couple really well-done indoor areas, and block the other ones off than it is to have a ton of indoor areas that are not very good. Its also better from a gameplay perspective since too many indoor areas can really slow the game down.

-The brick texturing gets pretty repetative. That might be OK, but I'd have to actually run around the map to tell for sure. Consider adding some variation, or getting a set of brick texture variations that mesh (some that have missing bricks, or water damage, or whatever). A lot of people will probably tell you to add all sorts of crazy geometry and architecture to the building walls, but I'd say leave them flat, and mess with the textures.

-Rooftop warfare is an awesome idea. Make a lot of the roofs accessible.

-Make visual paths of dirt on the ground in places people would walk on a lot. Use the paint alpha option for displacements to do this. So for example in the buildings area the parts near the buildings would be standard greenish dirt, but inbetween there would be a brown-ish path.

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http://maze5.net

Mazemaster:

I just want to thank you for the quality of your feedback before I respond to it. Thank you very much. It's great. I don't know if it will come across in this posting, but I wrote down half a dozen ideas while reading your post. Thanks again.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting mazemaster</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>Wow damn this map has a lot of potential. </DIV></DIV>
Thanks. I gave it a lot of thought.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting mazemaster</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>-Tweak the texturing of the mountains. </DIV></DIV>
It needs more than tweaking. <g> I've spent timeon it today. Getting there. "Make it work, make it good, make it fast".

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting mazemaster</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>-It looks like you have used only a few gigantic horizontal displacements for the whole map. Instead, break it down into many displacements that mesh with each other. </DIV></DIV>

No, the map is a series of 1024 unit cubes and the top of each one is a displacement. Below that is another cube that is textured with nodraw to limit vis. I did this just for the same reasons you stated. I just haven't gone thru and made ajustements because it "is hard to go back" when you start structurally modifying the map like that.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting mazemaster</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>-The lighting looks a bit... bright?</DIV></DIV>
That was good feedback by someone earlier, and I"ve reduced it quite a bit. Looks great now. I might drop it to 200. But It's at 300 now and it looks really great.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting mazemaster</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>-The whiteish texture snow? is not that good.</DIV></DIV>
Yeah, it's terrible. I"ve bought a lot of textures, modified them, and even made my own and I still can't get it right. Same for the ice on the stream. I just am not a good texture person when it comes to translucent and reflective surfaces.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting mazemaster</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>-Make sure that there is enough cover.</DIV></DIV>
I designed it so that the The house-to-house is very fast, with lots of cover, but that it's contrasted with open areas at both ends of the map. So, you're right but I think I have done the right thing so far.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting mazemaster</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>-Work on the inside areas. </DIV></DIV>
Well, I have placed a little furniture, but I don't want to overdo it. This is essentially a mining village that's been abandoned exept for terrorists. The people didn't have much stuff to begin with. I don't think I should add much. Perhaps some rusted metal equipment laying around will help.

There is always the potential for someone to camp a map like this. I can't get the gameplay I"m looking for (which this map has) and avoid camping spots. Its actually much harder to camp than you'd think, but it can still be done.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting mazemaster</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>-The brick texturing gets pretty repetative. </DIV></DIV>

I did this on purpose based upon the reference photos. It is part of what I'm looking for, so I don't want to change it. I have a slighly more stained and darker set. and I might add a lighter set, but I think that the map would be better served by models than by different textures. I need more detail, and I'd prefer if that detail didn't come from textures.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting mazemaster</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>-Rooftop warfare is an awesome idea. Make a lot of the roofs accessible./quote]
Yes. They are all accessible. Even the bots use them.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting mazemaster</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>-Make visual paths of dirt on the ground in places people would walk on a lot.</DIV></DIV>

Yes, this on my list on the web site.

I am trying to keep the map at 100FPS, and so everything I add, means there is something else I need to remove or change. I spent yesterday just on finding and buying sound files, creating the soundscapse, and testing sounds.

It's really getting there.

Thank you very much for your time and your ideas.

-LN

</DIV></DIV>

Those hay stacks are very square. I worry somewhat about your attempt
to keep it at "100fps" rather than keeping a poly count or whatnot, I
think you're being too restritive with yourself, just something I felt
looking at those hay stacks.

Also, the ceiling texture. It looks like an earth texture or something,
looks like old moldy plasterboard. I cant actually think of how the
ceiling might be, I will look for some images of a scottish cottage I
stayed in once, though I dont think I have any of the ceiling for
obvious reasons.

I know the screenshots have changed, but I cant remember what the
origionals were like in terms of light. What you have up now looks
perfect, it looks very cold & baron, for all I know though, it
could be the same as before.

I think i'l hold judgement on the waterfall until I play it in-game.

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My Pit

Korn:

1) hay

Every time I try to see if I can get away with something, it seems that I can't.

The bales, which you can't tell from the screenshot, are two cubes, the interior cube a solid texture, and the outer one a transparent one. They get across the right look in-game. But they are not shaped right.

I can easily make make them less regularly shaped. So I'll do it.

2) ceiling

Yes, I think you're right. OK. Lemme think on it a bit.

3) waterfall

I think it's as good as can be for this map. I tried a number of more sculpted waterfalls but all they do is slow the map down. I thought of doing a nice demo waterfall with a half dozen different textures and rocks. I should probably do it and just giveit out, because everyone would copy it.

I may switch to a single-player map next time so that I can really make use of the engine. The fact that I want CSS plus maps with wide open spaces, is what makes me have to make so many compromises. Furthermore, I use geometry where textures would be just as adequate a solution, but I find the texture work tedious so that's another compromise.

Thank you so much for your feedback.

np, btw I was playing cod2 earlier & there are some basically
square haystacks on one of the maps, but all theyve done is attached a
masked texture to the sides & it looks fine.

I tried the map out in-game earlier, I found some of the sheep bled
& some of them were made of stone, which was humerous. I felt the
textures in game were a bit repetative in places. The walls/roofs - but
maybe once I see it in game with the newer lighting scheme I would
change my mind.

I noticed it was being made an AS map a little while ago, which is a nice idea. havent seen one of those for a while.

Be sure to update this thread when the next playable version is out.

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My Pit

The last screenshot of the indoors area looks really nice, but considering the perspective of the screenshot, it looks like the room is way over-scaled. The doors also look much too thick.

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http://maze5.net

KoRnFlakes said:
np, btw I was playing cod2 earlier & there are some basically square haystacks on one of the maps, but all theyve done is attached a masked texture to the sides & it looks fine.

I'll look at that technique. Thanks.

KoRnFlakes said:
I tried the map out in-game earlier, I found some of the sheep bled & some of them were made of stone, which was humerous.

I must have miseed one then. They should all be of type 'flesh'.

KoRnFlakes said:
I felt the textures in game were a bit repetative in places. The walls/roofs - but maybe once I see it in game with the newer lighting scheme I would change my mind.

THey are repetitive, but I can't see adding 20MB to the file in order to change it.

KoRnFlakes said:
I noticed it was being made an AS map a little while ago, which is a nice idea. havent seen one of those for a while.

Yes, they asked me to make an AS version of the map. I"ve dropped a build to the mod team.

KoRnFlakes said:
Be sure to update this thread when the next playable version is out.

Will do. Thank you for your help.

You need to adjust your lights. the player models are all shadows.

First of all, I really like alot of things about this map - the attention to detail and obvious thought/care that has gone into it. Now, allow me to go off on a tangent. I don't see you changing this map much, and I understand that, but I'll lay all this down anyway - food for thought for future projects, maybe.

One of the benefits of higher detail maps, larger worlds, and more freedom to build is the ability to closer mimic realism. This is also a very double edge sword. Last generations games, in their more simplistic form, forced a sort of 'suspension of disbelief' and made it ok for developers to define the gameworld in a very rigid fashion. Basically, it was very obvious that you were playing in a confined box - everyone accepted it, no one really cared. Now that this constraint is somewhat lifted, we can create the illusion of LARGE environments.... the only problem is.... you are still playing in a confined box. Only now, you don't realize it until you 'smack' into an invisible wall that defines the gameplay space.

This creates a conundrum... we can make the player 'think' they have much more space, but we actually can't give them that much more space.

Another problem with our newfound next-gen capabilities, is the opportunity to create much more confusing gamespaces. The simple forms of previous gen games made the developer and player focus solely on 'playable space'. This meant that the game path was clearly defined and usually easy to understand. You could typically drop into a map, and know right off the bat where to go. Now, however, we have to build very defined game paths that fit cohesively into a more realistic environment, but still read well, are well lit, easy to navigate...etc. This takes more skill and forethought.

There within, I think, lies the major flaw of this map. The illusion of space and touches of half-realized realism, are detremental to the gameplay and overall quality of the map. The game path is confusing and unclear in lots of places. There are far to many invisible walls, and the sheep feel like statues.

If you've never heard of the theory of the 'uncanny valley', you should look it up, because this is a good example of that principle in action. To sum it up, the closer we come to 'realism' the more jarring or unsettling the subtle flaws in that realism become. The uncanny valley deals with simulated humans, but I'm extending this to realism in general, because I'm just that kind of pioneer =D

On entering this map, I immidiately see this wide expansive view, which it looks like I have access to. What do I do? Of course, I run towards it - only to hit an invisible wall. realism broken. Then, I see these cute little sheep, that look very good at a distance - I run up to one and study it. No movement. 'realism broken' Now, I'm trying to figure out where I can go, and where I can't - if there were people in the game, I would be dead because at this point I'm somewhat confused about where I can actually go.

So... the question you're probably asking is "what would you do, mr. critic... with all your critical critiques'. Well....I would probably do just what you have done, in trying to accomplish all of the great ideas you had when dreaming about this map. Then... one day when I had the time to go back and do it again, this is what I would do.

A. Define a gameplay path that is very clear. building a distinct ground path/game path, with cohesive, yet unique textures, to signify exactly where you can go. Using very defined, but asthetically pleasing boundaries to signify where you can't go. Rock walls that are seperate meshes, almost verticle, obviously too steep to climb. Broken brick walls, that you might find on the exterior of a building obviously too tall to climb, but with nice chunks missing - allowing you to peek through and see the expansive fields beyond them. Rivers on the boundary, obviously too deep to cross, but still allow a nice view. Wooden fences that feel a little more restrictive, but natural. Basically, every place you are restricted from must have a subtle or obvious hit that it is off limits. The major gamepath must somehow stand out and draw the player into it, without feeling akward or too defined.

B. Develop a series of rock walls, that are large and work as a more detailed middle-ground between you and the large mountain. These would intersect with your buildings, and be the boundary geometry for portions of the map. Then, I would push the mountain back more, to better develop a sense of scale. Also, with it further back, you can cheat the texture by scaling them up alot, making it feel less repetitive.

C. Change the waterfall from a steep angled waterfall, to a full free-fall verticle drop waterfall. I would also push it back more. You can still have the cool bridge going over the creek that has flowed from this waterfall. I just think that the waterfall you have now feels like HL1 sitting in a HL2 world. With a freefall drop, you wont have the akward transition from rock to water that you have now. the waterfall would basically pour from the mountain top, or a hole in the mountain, straight down into a pool. With some good steam effects and more work on the scrolling alpha texture (so it feels more scattered), I think you could get this looking good.

D. Hide the sheep. Sorry, although I really love the sheep model, the fact that they are not animated actually detracts from the map more than the bonus of having them. If nothing else, put them further out, beyond the gamespace, in a pin that is dimly lit. I think you can still get the same atmosphere with the hay, some animal pins, and the sounds of sheep coming from different parts of the map, without actually showing the sheep. It's like putting civilians in a map, but not having them move - it just seems weird, and the downside outweighs plus.

WHew..... ok, now that I've spewed all of that your way, let me just say that I see much potential in this map and the theme. I think the execution may need to be rethought for it to really hit the highest quality mark possible, but I 'get it' and like it. I wish you much luck with this and future maps.

I'm not sure which hay bale model you're using, but you may want to
check out this one:
http://sourceprefabs.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Downloads&file=index&req=viewdownloaddetails&lid=71&ttitle=hay_bale

Madedog said:
Why not using displacements with power of 4? You could get along with lot lesser planes

I don't understand. Power of 4 would generate MORE planes.

madedog said:
And what bothers me is the optimization. How long does the VIS take?

Not long at all. the map is constructed as a grid of 1024 unit cubes over which the displacements form a loose skin. THen the entire map is pretty much made of func-detail and models. So a glview of the map is a very tidy very clean set of vis areas. Almost everything is func_lod that can be, and all the models have an LOD set. So, rendering is controlled by lod not necessarily vis.

This is the technique used in the hl2 coast_12 map. It is also how many other engines handle the problem of exterior space.

-LN

I think he means that if you use larger displacement surfaces but
increase the power (in order to get roughly the same number of points
to manipulate overall), you need to make less brushes.

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[img]http://card.mygamercard.net/sig/Default/reno84.png[/img]
Designer @ Haiku Interactive | ReNo-vation.net

MoneyShot said:
You need to adjust your lights. the player models are all shadows.

This is a problem with source inthe current sdk. See "cubmaps bug" in VERC. THere is a workaround but it seems not to be perfect. I'll use it in the next build.

-LN

Finger said:
First of all, I really like alot of things about this map - the attention to detail and obvious thought/care that has gone into it. Now, allow me to go off on a tangent.

First, thank you for appreciating the work. I am very happy with this map, but when others appreciate it, I feel even better.

Second, thank you for the thought you put into your critique. It was insightful and helpful.

In response, I'll try to be more brief, which unfortunately is not my strong suit.

But, that being said. I've translated your response to "You succeeded in the suspension of disbelief, but those areas where I can test the belief, dispel it. As such, the realism may work against it. This can be reduced by using visual cues to help the player refrain from those actions which break the suspension of disbelief."

To which I have the following responses
a) borders: everyone makes canyons and other channel maps. I am willing to sacrifice the chance at disbilief, in exchange for the fact that it looks more believeable in the first place. My "thing" is spaces. And I want to convey those spaces. That's why I make the maps in the first place. In response to this, I have broken the rules a few times to convey that space. To make it harder, there is no reason to explore that space because all the spaces that you can''t go are off of game play routes.

but the real trick is why do you want to explore it in the first place?, and i think the reason is because I succeeded in creating the reality of it. SO, to some degree, the sense that it troubles you is how I know I succeeded.

b) sheep: Yes, someone is animating the sheep for me at the moment.

On the other hand, you didn't find the sheep easter eggs either. (grin) If you do, please do not post them.

c) paths: I have simply not made the path overlay, but it will be in the final release.

So we are in agreement I think, and while I think I have answered your responses, I think that it is more a question of similar minds. We thought the same things.

Cheers

-LN

Dude... How'd you make such good fog? It even works in the skybox... What did you do?

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I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

The skybox entity has fog settings... it's quite easy to get fog in the skybox. You can play with fog settings in garysmod, or load your map, turn on cheats and type find fog this will list all of the fog commands for you to play with, ingame.

Nickelplate said:
Dude... How'd you make such good fog? It even works in the skybox... What did you do?

You have to

a) pick the two colors to match the sky textures correctly

b) use the skybox fog setting

c) put a fog_controller in the map itself

d) make sure they match EXACTLY or it's really obvious.

e) use VERY BIG AND LOOSE func_smokevolume's up against the sky

I originally had smokevol's working as mist in all the valley's and it looked really cool. So the effect was even better. This light mist just floated above the ground. But there is a limit on the number of smokevol sprites you can use, and it' seems to be gated in the engine, so I couldn't make it all work without exceeding that limit.

While there is a performance penalty using them, it's actually pretty lightweight.

-LN