Re: Bah, politics!
Posted by WarloK on
Thu Apr 6th 2006 at 2:01am
WarloK
member
172 posts
17 snarkmarks
Registered:
Apr 9th 2005
Location: Inverness
Nickle and I had a debate on politics, and the justification of Britain being dragged into the Iraq war. So i'd like to take this up in the pit.
What do the rest of you have to say on the matter?<html><head><link rel="stylesheet" href="themes/standard.css" type="text/css"></head><body topmargin=2 leftmargin=2>
Re: Bah, politics!
Posted by Gwil on
Thu Apr 6th 2006 at 2:08am
Gwil
super admin
2864 posts
315 snarkmarks
Registered:
Oct 13th 2001
Occupation: Student
Location: Derbyshire, UK
I don't see why we joined in. This "special relationship"
justification just doesn't wash. Ideally there would have been a
referendum on it, but hey, what can you do?
As long as we don't do the asshole thing and pull out too early, i'm
beyond trying to explain why and how we got into this bloody mess.
Re: Bah, politics!
Posted by Juim on
Thu Apr 6th 2006 at 3:20am
Juim
member
726 posts
386 snarkmarks
Registered:
Feb 14th 2003
Occupation: Motion Picture Grip
Location: Los Angeles
Absolutely agreed Gwil. People all over the globe are always on about Americans now, thanks to George Bush and his more than obvious ties to American Oil and their subsequent agendas, but the American soldiers are there for a bigger purpose, albeit masked behind said agendas. It would be a shame to pull them out before there mission is completed, creating yet another generation of frustrated under-appreciated soldiers.(can you say Vietnam?)
Re: Bah, politics!
Posted by Andrei on
Thu Apr 6th 2006 at 8:13am
Andrei
member
2455 posts
1248 snarkmarks
Registered:
Sep 15th 2003
Location: Bucharest, Romania
What I don't get is why countries like Bulgaria and Romania agreed to
sending troops in Iraq. I know their contribution isn't exactly
generous, but IMO 1 soldier is too many. I can assume it was all part
of an ass-kissing strategy.
Re: Bah, politics!
Posted by reaper47 on
Thu Apr 6th 2006 at 12:22pm
Posted
2006-04-06 12:22pm
2827 posts
1921 snarkmarks
Registered:
Feb 16th 2005
Location: Austria
Every 14-year-old kid watching the news could see that the Iraq war was unjustified or at least shortsightedly planned. I don't believe that politicians are that stupid, though. They had a very desperate reason for doing it anyway. Sometimes I think it's more than just oil... but what I don't know.
Re: Bah, politics!
Posted by Andrei on
Thu Apr 6th 2006 at 1:13pm
Andrei
member
2455 posts
1248 snarkmarks
Registered:
Sep 15th 2003
Location: Bucharest, Romania
And now there's that Iran crisis. Somehow, knowing that Iran have
nuclear weapons makes me feel less uneasy than the fact that an idiot
like Bush has nuclear weapons.
Re: Bah, politics!
Posted by Orpheus on
Thu Apr 6th 2006 at 1:17pm
Orpheus
member
13860 posts
2024 snarkmarks
Registered:
Aug 26th 2001
Occupation: Long Haul Trucking
Location: Long Oklahoma - USA
I still have faith enough to believe that "Oil" wasn't the deciding factor. Whenever I look at the gas pump, I waver in that faith but.. I keep thinking "We can grow our own gasoline, why is it still so high?"
As far as why Britain, or any other country joining? Well, the way I see it is this. Even when its a poor choice, if you cannot talk your best friend out of a self destructive mess you join him to see to it that he doesn't do to much damage.
Perhaps Britain joined to keep tabs on the USA and make sure, to the best of their ability, that we do not screw the pooch to badly.
As I said, If they couldn't talk us out of it, then being friends it was their obligation to help keep it as civil as possible.
shrugs
Simplistic, but I bet its a fair assessment.
The best things in life, aren't things.
Re: Bah, politics!
Posted by Bewbies on
Fri Apr 7th 2006 at 12:02am
Posted
2006-04-07 12:02am
Bewbies
member
413 posts
41 snarkmarks
Registered:
Sep 10th 2003
Occupation: IT Dude
Location: US-of-A
bush's fault.
the players tried to take the field
the marching band refused to yield
Re: Bah, politics!
Posted by FatStrings on
Tue Apr 11th 2006 at 3:02am
1242 posts
144 snarkmarks
Registered:
Aug 11th 2005
Occupation: Architecture Student
Location: USA
the funny thing is nickel, some of those really are true
for example:
we are greedy ass turds
and at this point we are most of the turmoil over there
Re: Bah, politics!
Posted by rival on
Tue Apr 11th 2006 at 3:26pm
rival
member
512 posts
141 snarkmarks
Registered:
Apr 7th 2005
Occupation: being a pain in the ass
Location: inverness
I have long since stopped trying to argue with any one over this particular issue for two reasons: 1) I don't have a solid opinion on the matter 2) each arguement for and against it cancel each other out, eg. there werent any weapons of mass destruction over there, we shouldn't have gone. Yes we should have because we got rid of a tyrant. See each arguement cancels another out, just too hard to explain why or why not. We should be arguing over what we are going to do now we are over there.
Bullet Control: $5000 for a bullet.
"I would blow your f**king head off! ...if I could afford it. I'm gonna get another job, start saving some money... then you a dead man!"
Re: Bah, politics!
Posted by FatStrings on
Wed Apr 12th 2006 at 3:26am
1242 posts
144 snarkmarks
Registered:
Aug 11th 2005
Occupation: Architecture Student
Location: USA
but iraq must be full of terrorists isn't it part of the axis of evil
rival makes a good point<br style="color: white;">
Re: Bah, politics!
Posted by Andrei on
Wed Apr 12th 2006 at 11:32am
Posted
2006-04-12 11:32am
Andrei
member
2455 posts
1248 snarkmarks
Registered:
Sep 15th 2003
Location: Bucharest, Romania
I somewhat agree with what you say about immigration, but isn't that a
little idealist? There are way too many factors involved. You can't
just expect such a large number of people to change overnight. There
will always be that "the grass is greener on the other side" mentality.
And even if 99,9% of all Mexicans decide to stay home and make their
country better, there will always be that 0.1% that will get the rest
to say "f**k this, i'm going to the US like [insert catchy mexican name
here] did." Viva the herd instinct.
As for Iran and Korea having nukes...I really don't see why Iran and
Korea can't have their own nuclear programs when that asshole Bush
affords to publicly state that the US is mining and enriching uranium for...secret
projects. The US should disarm themselves before going on a crusade to
disarm others. But they won't, will they? Why? Because they're afraid
of being harassed by other countries that will refuse to disarm the
moment they will have buried their missiles? The same thing applies for
Korea and
Iran. So what do we do? Drop cruisemissiles at everyone we fear or
dislike? That indeed sounds like the Bush-way of dealing with things.
I'm such an asshole.
Re: Bah, politics!
Posted by Orpheus on
Wed Apr 12th 2006 at 7:30pm
Orpheus
member
13860 posts
2024 snarkmarks
Registered:
Aug 26th 2001
Occupation: Long Haul Trucking
Location: Long Oklahoma - USA
I see it this way. If people, both westerners and easterners, are weak willed enough to buy into the propaganda of hate, there is little we can do about it except wait for some kind of an eye opening experience to enlighten them.
If people, specifically Arab nations, truly hate the United states, I doubt very,very seriously that the hate is from anything first hand in experience.
That said, propaganda is a powerful tool and can be used in reverse. If the nations that are hated do not do anything to disillusion the propaganda then they are wrong by lack of incentive. [edit] I meant to say, "initiative"
Anyway, thats my take.
As for myself, I hate ignorance. If someone hates me without knowing me, then their hate lacks any power to influence me what so ever.
The best things in life, aren't things.
Re: Bah, politics!
Posted by FatStrings on
Thu Apr 13th 2006 at 1:28am
1242 posts
144 snarkmarks
Registered:
Aug 11th 2005
Occupation: Architecture Student
Location: USA
yeah people believe the media way to much, which of course happens to be almost completely controlled by the government of course, i have to agree with orph and pepper
but andrei seriously didn't you read the memo, only the usa gets nukes noone else<br style="color: white;">
Re: Bah, politics!
Posted by Andrei on
Thu Apr 13th 2006 at 1:39pm
Andrei
member
2455 posts
1248 snarkmarks
Registered:
Sep 15th 2003
Location: Bucharest, Romania
I guess it's true. But maybe the reason they didn't drop any other
bombs was because they were afraid of a similar response from their
target or from any other hostile nation? I shudder to think how Bush Jr.
would have handled the Cuban missile crisis, though. [edited]
Re: Bah, politics!
Posted by Orpheus on
Thu Apr 13th 2006 at 1:43pm
Orpheus
member
13860 posts
2024 snarkmarks
Registered:
Aug 26th 2001
Occupation: Long Haul Trucking
Location: Long Oklahoma - USA
I dislike him as much, or more than most yet... There was ample opportunity to drop many such bombs and none fell.
Its not like we have a shortage on the things and need to conserve them for some future event. The point is, I am hopeful that checks and balances are in place that are sufficient to forestall such a dropping.
If Bush could have gotten away with it, they would have been used. That much I am certain of. Since none fell, he obviously had insufficient powers to employ.
Good thing all around methinks.
The best things in life, aren't things.
Re: Bah, politics!
Posted by rival on
Thu Apr 13th 2006 at 10:36pm
Posted
2006-04-13 10:36pm
rival
member
512 posts
141 snarkmarks
Registered:
Apr 7th 2005
Occupation: being a pain in the ass
Location: inverness
antimatter bombs are the solution!
Bullet Control: $5000 for a bullet.
"I would blow your f**king head off! ...if I could afford it. I'm gonna get another job, start saving some money... then you a dead man!"
Re: Bah, politics!
Posted by Dr Brasso on
Mon Apr 17th 2006 at 1:15am
1878 posts
198 snarkmarks
Registered:
Aug 30th 2003
Occupation: cad drafter
Location: Omaha,NE
well, as the story goes, the bombs were dropped so as to relieve the USA of the burden of the casualty count from a mainland japanese invasion....on both sides. i dont believe it was other than a calculated move, as strange as it may sound, to save lives.....whether it worked out i suppose is the subject of another thread...
...........in other words, it wasnt out of anger
Doc B...
Re: Bah, politics!
Posted by rival on
Mon Apr 17th 2006 at 1:29am
rival
member
512 posts
141 snarkmarks
Registered:
Apr 7th 2005
Occupation: being a pain in the ass
Location: inverness
but it was an aggressive act, or offensive
edit: since it saved many lives then could to be said defensive too
Bullet Control: $5000 for a bullet.
"I would blow your f**king head off! ...if I could afford it. I'm gonna get another job, start saving some money... then you a dead man!"
Re: Bah, politics!
Posted by Gwil on
Mon Apr 17th 2006 at 1:34am
Gwil
super admin
2864 posts
315 snarkmarks
Registered:
Oct 13th 2001
Occupation: Student
Location: Derbyshire, UK
it saved countless lives by showing the presidents/premiers never to unleash the weapon on the world again.
arguably :razz: